Lead Adventure Forum
Miniatures Adventure => Adventures in the Far East => Topic started by: olyreed on May 03, 2015, 02:35:35 PM
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I am thinking about putting on a display game next year for some wargames shows and could really do with some help. I am thinking of using Black Powder and any help with ideas for force composition, battles, figures other than Bac Ninh as they will be my core miniatures, and i would like to get some mounted units and also officers and generals so probably need to do some conversion work. I would like to incoperate a town onto the table because i have a lot of Oshiro buildings. So any suggestions would be really appreciated
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Big question mate.
Firstly, what size table are you going for. Are you doing a historical action or something fictional.
Obviously Jose will give you a hand with the OOB but have a look at Perry BIF and their naval brigade from the Sudan range as they will be the same as the troops necessary in Japan at that time. It might be easier to use Sharp Practice though unless you'll have a couple of hundred figures for it 8)
This photo (taken from the net) is of the battery at Shimonoseki and you can see the uniform is very similar to the Perry figures. I would also suggest the Copplestone ones but they are a tad on the large side.
(http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk138/jimbibbly/Meiji%20Edo/IMG_5298_zpsyuxh8pz7.jpg)
I'll be happy to loan you some of my Edo period buildings when they are done (as long as I get a mention ;)).
cheers
James
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I may take you up on the offer of the buildings, the table we used yesterday for a ww1 game was 8x5, the battle doesn't need to be historical. If I am going to use black powder then I will be working on units of 16-20 figures and 3 units to a brigade, with three brigades, that's all just a ball park idea at the moment. I would like to get some cavalry units on there and on my other thread nevermore posted up a picture of Artizan cav but they need a head swap so will have a look into that. Like I said any input from anyone would be great as I haven't planned anything like this for many a long year and it's quite daunting . I will definitely make sure you and Rokurota gets a mention on the display
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Colin you have my total support for this project, Black Powder is a good option if you want big battles but as say James you need a lot of figures.
Perry plastic ACW is a good option for officers and generals:
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-nQwyyn5r5Oo/VJWGPkmbswI/AAAAAAAABMo/MEs4cUSCJwg/s1600/Oficcer1.1.jpg) (http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-JDn5mPOaPcs/Uy9CeGw0fFI/AAAAAAAABD0/M28N-BYLV6Y/s1600/Jules2.jpg)
Footsore Miniatures Franco Prussian War range have officcers that can be useful:
(http://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0657/9717/products/FM_FPW_French_Off_1a_1024x1024.jpg?v=1425914825) (https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/83/49/dd/8349dd618bd2d7d5bb62cf282219eaaf.jpg)
For cavalry units Artizan Chasseurs can work very well like Denshūtai but their beards are a big problem:
(http://www.artizandesigns.com/images/img1906.jpg) (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/ab/Bakufu_French_style_cavalry.jpg)
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I would love to see how this turns out.
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Thanks guys, I have been thinking about this last night and feel maybe black powder sized armies will be unachievable in less than a year at my speed of painting so I am swinging towards Sharp practice, which will still allow me to field around 100 figs or more a side. But this will allow me put more detail on the table. Quite exited about the project and will be cracking into the figures and buying up terrain in the next few months
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Take a look to my Boshin War supplement for T&T.
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Right, I am looking at the Perry b.i.f cavalry lancers, just head swap on them, a standard unit of 40 figs for infantry, that should give me 5 groups of eight, two of these either side plus artillery and a couple of small units, samurai for the bakufu. Plus whatever Bac Ninh releases this year as I have around ten months to collect. That should be around 100 figs or so a side
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Got this little snippet from one of my uniform books.
A platoon was formed from 40 soldiers, a company consisted of three platoons and a battalion consisted of five companies. You could get squads of ten men, so four in a platoon (convenient for gamers :)).
You've also got me looking at the Perry BIF cavalry for conversion potential...
cheers
James
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so if i used a scale of 15-1, 40 figures could represent one brigade, so could play as platoon or brigade sized. Thinking for the Imperials 1 x 40 figs Satsuma, 1 x 40 figs Chosu and 1 x 20 for Tosa, Tosa being a depleted brigade. For the Bakufu, 2 x 40 figs of infantry 10 or 20 cav and a unit if 20 Samurai, throw in there some shinsengumi, make the Bakufu troops not as well trained as Imperials but cav and samurai as vets. Have the Bakufu maybe defending a town with some earth works/ fences and give the Imperials and extra gun or two, or maybe a gattling gun for flavour, what do you guys think?
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That's sounds great :D
cheers
James
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With the figures and style of warfare wonder if you may be able to take anything from regimental fire and fury
On heads perhaps Redoubt Havelock heads may help, not sure of fit to Boshin or Perry figures though
http://www.redoubtenterprises.com/shop/?page=shop/browse&offset=0&category_id=87f3a51d4db53d9fd5fc50be228a9668&keyword=
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I had a load of the Redoubt havelock heads but gave them to me dad for his Maximillian figs. I fear the heads maybe to big but will have a look at the ones I used for my ACW stuff. I know Steve Barber does Havelock heads and his figures if i remember are a tad smaller than Redoubt. I will have to draw up a list of stuff I need to get as there is quite a bit of stuff I would like. Fire and Fury is a good shout I never thought about them, I have a copy of the Regimental rules so will dig them up and have a look,
What I like about Sharp Practice/Terrible sharp sword is the option to grow the game slowly using sentries/ pickets and have the cavalry as a probing force to begin with and let the game grow from there
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I had a load of the Redoubt havelock heads but gave them to me dad for his Maximillian figs. I fear the heads maybe to big but will have a look at the ones I used for my ACW stuff. I know Steve Barber does Havelock heads and his figures if i remember are a tad smaller than Redoubt. I will have to draw up a list of stuff I need to get as there is quite a bit of stuff I would like. Fire and Fury is a good shout I never thought about them, I have a copy of the Regimental rules so will dig them up and have a look,
What I like about Sharp Practice/Terrible sharp sword is the option to grow the game slowly using sentries/ pickets and have the cavalry as a probing force to begin with and let the game grow from there
All sounds good Oly, the options you have discussed give you an opportunity too to flex depending on your painting and how much you manage to get done , you can then decide nearer the time.
I think you could be right about Steve Barber heads, certainly smaller than redoubt.
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Just realised I might have to order a couple of pots of dark russian blue paint!
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The perry sudan stuff is too late.
Depending on who you're going with i'd try for the Brits either Perrys bif range or Darkest Africa for some officer types.
For the French either Franco-Prussian stuff or converted Perry Zouaves, maybe even some ww1 stuff as the officer Uniform changes very little until later on into the war.
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so if i used a scale of 15-1, 40 figures could represent one brigade, so could play as platoon or brigade sized. Thinking for the Imperials 1 x 40 figs Satsuma, 1 x 40 figs Chosu and 1 x 20 for Tosa, Tosa being a depleted brigade. For the Bakufu, 2 x 40 figs of infantry 10 or 20 cav and a unit if 20 Samurai, throw in there some shinsengumi, make the Bakufu troops not as well trained as Imperials but cav and samurai as vets. Have the Bakufu maybe defending a town with some earth works/ fences and give the Imperials and extra gun or two, or maybe a gattling gun for flavour, what do you guys think?
Colin, remember that the Bakufu troops were superior in number although worse equipped and trained.
There was only three Gatling in Japan during the Boshin War, the daimyo of Nagaoka, an ally of the Shogun, possessed two.
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Then maybe make the imperial troops 30 figures strong compared to the bakufu 40. That should give the bakufu 2 x 40 units, one small unit of samurai and shinsemgumi. These will be defending the town. Attacking will be 1 x 30 figs of satsuma 1x 30 figs of choshu and 1x20 of tosa. 2 x artillery for imperial and 1 x artillery for bakufu. That would be a start, maybe some cavalry for imperials, and whatever you are releasing this year in miniatures i can add. That will make the basic infantry equal amounts but bakufu are defending but rated low in training. Imperials can have superior training but have to attack
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That's sound much better! ;)
By the way, maybe we could sculpt havelock over shogunate heads and send to the caster, but I fear that I'm not very good sculping. :'(
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Could try the perry platic kepis on the shogunate heads and then all you need to sculpt is the cloth on the back
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By the way, maybe we could sculpt havelock over shogunate heads and send to the caster, but I fear that I'm not very good sculping. :'(
There'll be someone who could do it for you (not me as I'm not that good either)
cheers
James
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A quick question, I have an idea what the imperial flags need to be for Choshu, Tosa and Satsuma are, but with the Bakufu do I go with clan flags, and if I do, who were the major clans involved?
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A quick question, I have an idea what the imperial flags need to be for Choshu, Tosa and Satsuma are,
but with the Bakufu do I go with clan flags, and if I do, who were the major clans involved?
AIZU DOMAIN
(http://www.crwflags.com/fotw/images/j/jp-aiaen.gif)
OUETSU REPPAN DOMEI (NORTHERN ALLIANCE)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C5%8Cuetsu_Reppan_D%C5%8Dmei (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C5%8Cuetsu_Reppan_D%C5%8Dmei)
(http://www.crwflags.com/fotw/images/j/jp-ohual1.gif)
(http://www.crwflags.com/fotw/images/j/jp-ohual2.gif)
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Thats brilliant! Thanks Rokurota
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Todays question.. Would a Japanese town have walls around it? As I am aiming to represent the edge of a town with the Shogunate army defending just outside I would like to knkow if I can leave the town open for the troops to be able to move through the town without being restricted by a wall
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No walls until you start getting to the castle part and the upper class samurai residences and that's only for the larger castle towns.
There might be limited palisade defences around rural and mountain villages but not normally.
cheers
James
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That sounds ideal. Now that I am here asking questions, would the new buildings be intergrated amongst the old ones or would a new district be created?
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A bit of both really. Certainly there would be new warehouse districts and the occasional new build area but most would just fit as and when older ones fall down or the land changes hands.
cheers
James
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Cheers James, this is all very useful information, will have to start planning out the layout of the board soon
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The warehouses would generally be by the waterside (docks) or you might get some on main thoroughfares.
Whereabouts are you thinking of placing the game? Kyoto, Edo?
cheers
James
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Kyoto probably, the town will only take up the 5ft end of the table coming in 12-15 inches with the pallisade defences for the Bakufu set out in front of the town
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I'll send you some photos from a couple of my books that'll explain it a lot more than I can lol
cheers
James
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After watching NHK world last night there was a programme about sushimi in the Edo period being sold from market stalls, am now thinking maybe doing some small market stalls to populate the town, the stalls look quite generic so if someone knows of a company that sells some that could pass for this that would be great
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Me at some point in the very near future (if they're the ones I'm thinking of). Got some masters in the go :)
Can you post a screen shot or link so I know which ones?
cheers
James
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I will try to find a pic, they were like standard wooden market stalls i am more than happy to wait for your ones :D. Will you be able to send me those sizes. Pretty please
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Heres a pic I found, something a bit like the ones in the pic, its hard to see . and a coulple of paintings from the period, not very clear in them but they are nice
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Ah, been there and it's a cracking display 8)
The ones I'm doing are more the mobile sort, couldn't find the picture yet though :?
cheers
James
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I think I will still wait to get your ones. I will be looking to place an order with you for the buildings in a bout a month if thats okay :)
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Got the B.I.F cavalry through today, bit of work needed , waiting on heads, I have seen a couple of pics of the Bakufu cav, some with black uniform and red trousers and some with blue and black, any ideas on whats right
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Probably both as there wasn't really a standard issue for every single soldier.
cheers
James
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Last question tonight. Did the imperials have cavalry? If they did what uniform did they wear
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Got the B.I.F cavalry through today, bit of work needed , waiting on heads, I have seen a couple of pics of the Bakufu cav, some with black uniform and red trousers and some with blue and black, any ideas on whats right
This is an illustration of the period:
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/ab/Bakufu_French_style_cavalry.jpg)
And this a Ritta Nakanishi illustration:
(https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/85/20/ae/8520aebea46a1e1e9cc81d18bb0fb395.jpg)
I think both are correct.
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Last question tonight. Did the imperials have cavalry? If they did what uniform did they wear
Japanese were not precisely known by their cavalry. I only know Denshutai cavalry, elite troops of the Tokugawa Bakufu.
I suggest the following:
1 x 40 figs of Satsuma 1 x 40 figs of Choshu and 1 x 30 of Tosa and 2 x artillery for Imperial.
2 x 40 units infantry , 1 x 10 samurai, 1 x 10 or 20 Shinsengumi, 1 x 10 Denshutai Cavalry and 1 x artillery for Bakufu.
What do you think?
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Not really cavalry but a couple of figures in almost complete samurai armour on horses for leaders wouldn't go amiss :)
Some good conversion potential there :D
cheers
James
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I will look into that, thanks James and Jose, I was looking to convert an ACW officer on horse for a general as well, It might work if I use the ones with an open coat and a head swap, I will let you know how that goes. I like those ideas Jose, will we shinsengumi from you?
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I will look into that, thanks James and Jose, I was looking to convert an ACW officer on horse for a general as well, It might work if I use the ones with an open coat and a head swap, I will let you know how that goes. I like those ideas Jose, will we shinsengumi from you?
Yes. ;)
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Shame, foundry maxamilian had ideal French lancer, but seem to have gone as a range. perhaps these chaps from Indian mutiny may work http://www.awminiatures.co.uk/store/category.php?id=171
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They look like they would work, good shout. It is a shame about foundrys maximilian range as my dad is collecting Gringo40s at the moment but the range is unfinished. Heads came today, they look like they will match perry figs okay. A few have facial hair which need to be removed
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Looking forward to seeing what you do with these :)
cheers
James
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I will have to do some filing on the facial hair, which could be a bit fidley but hopefully come out alright
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Head size work well with Perry?
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They turned up at work so I will try the heads when I get home, will post a pick up later. looking at them though they seem a very good fit, about the same size as Perrys, the ones I had from Redoubt worked but they were a little larger
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Thank you.
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Head stuck to body, a bit of filing was needed
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Work fine for me. :)
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Work fine for me. :)
And for me too.
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As Devizes is coming up I am starting to think about terrain, what would anyone recommend for the terrain, as a reminder the board will have the outside of a town at one short end of the table with wooden fence defenses in front for the Bakufu troops, I was thinking maybe a small village at the other end with a road running up through the middle of the table, any suggestions would be great
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Plenty of paddy fields. A copse of trees with a small shrine in it by the road and possibly telegraph poles along the road :)
cheers
James
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Cheers james, that gives me something to work on, I better get some balsa wood for the telegraph poles and add some paddy fields to the orders I will be placing with you over the next couple of months
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I would suggest you use something a bit more substanial than balsa for the poles. Get some dowel craft sticks a couple of mm in diameter, they'll last longer :)
cheers
James
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I am now starting to think about what I need for the town part of the gaming board, I like the idea of how jim bibbly does his buildings, by placing them on boards, so i need suggestions as to what to use for boards, so any help would be gratefully received. also ideas for layout, I have mentioned in the past about having the edge of the town at the short end of a 6 x 4 board coming in about 18" but am quite flexible to that idea if anyone has a better suggestion
Also, if I decided to go down the route of making some boards, whats the best stuff to use for this and are there any good tutorials out there.
Lots of questions, but starting to get fired up again for this project and would like to get my teeth into it again
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Get a pack of these for your boards...
http://shop.panelsystems.co.uk/craftfoam/modelling-foam/craft-foam-blue.html (http://shop.panelsystems.co.uk/craftfoam/modelling-foam/craft-foam-blue.html)
And go for the 25mm thick, that way you can include a river if you want one.
The Dorset boards thread I did for NIck might be useful...
http://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=70094.0 (http://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=70094.0)
I'll sketch you a rough layout of the town edge if you want, nothing specific, just a general idea of where things go.
cheers
James
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That would be great. Thanks James, i am coming to the end of the major figs i need so am looking forward to getting stuck in to the board
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James,
was that masonry paint you used for the dorset boards?
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It's just a mix of wood glue, sand, filler powder, a bit of paint and some sandtex masonry paint added in for good measure :)
cheers
James