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Miniatures Adventure => Old West => Topic started by: Silent Invader on July 13, 2015, 11:31:49 PM

Title: Apache! :: UD 23/10 - starting on the mounted alternates
Post by: Silent Invader on July 13, 2015, 11:31:49 PM
At the back of my mind thoughts are bubbling for my winter project.

Despite being brought up on Westerns I have thus far been unable to pin down a project in the genre. I have some half finished 28mm Mesa-like terrain that could be repurposed and rather fancy something with Apaches, either against Mexicans or Texicans (I'm a Boothill fan, I am).

I'm after a fast-play cinematic game with maybe 20 figures in total though the only movie that springs to mind is Chato's Land.  

Can anyone suggest useful historical or movie references that might help me settle on scenarios and from there the forces I might need?

Many thanks.
Title: Re: Thoughts for a project please :-)
Post by: Malamute on July 14, 2015, 07:11:09 AM
Ulzana's Raid.  :D

Burt Lancaster chasing Apaches who have broken out of the reservation and gone on a raid. Its a great western. Lots to gain inspiration from if you are inclined to do Cavalry patrols, ambushes, homesteads under attack etc.

Maybe a bit late for you as it's set in the 1880s.

Maybe try Texas Rising the recent History chanel TV series. Set against the backdrop of the Texas Revolution after the Alamo, I believe it has some skirmishes with Comanche and deals with the birth of the Texas Rangers. I haven't seen it yet, so have no idea what its like. There is a thread running on it here.

Major Dundee. Charlton Heston and Richard Harris lead an expedition across the Rio Grande into Mexico to track down a renegade Apache and his war party. They tangle with Mexicnas and French as its set against the backdrop of the Maximillian Adventure in the 1860s. One benefit is Senta Berger ;D

Or there is The Searchers which I used for the inspiration for my Comanche Moon project. My favourite Western of all time :)

As to figures Foudry have an excellent range of Apache and Cavalry along with mostly everything you need. Artizan do some Apache and buffalo soldiers as well as the 7th Cavalry.
Galloping Major has produced some lovely cavalry for the Apache wars and started on the Apaches, but neither have mounted figures yet.
Title: Re: Thoughts for a project please :-)
Post by: Silent Invader on July 14, 2015, 07:41:33 AM
You're the man!  8)
Title: Re: Thoughts for a project please :-)
Post by: Malamute on July 14, 2015, 07:48:11 AM
You're the man!  8)


 lol

I'm quite excited by your sudden interest in the Old West. :D

 I have a sizeable collection (including the Plains and Apache Wars, not just the Tex/Mex thing) if you feel the urge to have a game to get your creative juices flowing ;)
Title: Re: Thoughts for a project please :-)
Post by: Silent Invader on July 14, 2015, 08:17:38 AM
It's not sudden, as I mentioned I was brought up on Wild West movies as my parents are big fans (my first cinema attendance being as a babe in arms!). A lot of my favourite sci-fi is - in the style of John Carpenter - just the Wild West reimagined.

All that said, I am much more interested in the Native American perspective, which is why revisionist westerns like Chato's Land (and now you remind me, the excellent Ulzana's Raid), though I'm also very partial to right-versus-might storylines such as the magnificent Magnificent Seven (and I particularly enjoyed Deadwood for Timothy Olyphant's portrayal). What all these words mean is that I've wanted to do something different to the Wild West 'gunfight' game but not been sure what or how.  The 15mm sci-fi project I'm working on was a bit of a 'light bulb' moment as its settlement was to extent inspired by my recollection of Chato's home and, now you remind me, being built into the hillside is somewhat reminiscent of the farmstead in Ulzana's Raid.

Thanks for the offer to get my juices flowing, which I'd love to take you up on.   :D

I've got a lot of minis to paint between now and BLAM but thinking about this project is an interesting digression and I shall probably start buying the minis in a couple of months.

 ;) :D

Title: Re: Thoughts for a project please :-)
Post by: HerbyF on July 14, 2015, 08:26:24 AM
I have been collecting & painting bison for a buffaloe hunt game. I have also been working on a scenario where an Apache band raids through a fight between Mexicans & U.S. troops.
Title: Re: Thoughts for a project please :-)
Post by: Malamute on July 14, 2015, 09:13:21 AM
I have been collecting & painting bison for a buffaloe hunt game. I have also been working on a scenario where an Apache band raids through a fight between Mexicans & U.S. troops.

Great stuff. :)

 Which reminds me I have some buffalo to paint... lol

Title: Re: Thoughts for a project please :-)
Post by: Captain Blood on July 14, 2015, 09:45:02 AM
*cough*   Boer War...
Title: Re: Thoughts for a project please :-)
Post by: Constable Bertrand on July 14, 2015, 10:07:26 AM
*cough*   Boer War...

No doubt that is the
Quote
half finished 28mm Mesa-like terrain
he is talking about.

lol

butterfly* ;)

Cheers
Matt

*like I can talk..
Title: Re: Thoughts for a project please :-)
Post by: Mason on July 14, 2015, 10:11:03 AM
Looking forward to seeing what you come up with, Steve.
 8) 8)



Mama's ideas sound pretty cool (but don't tell him that I said that.... ;)).


Which reminds me I have some buffalo to paint... lol

So do I.
You can do mine at the same time if you want.
 :D

Title: Re: Thoughts for a project please :-)
Post by: Goliad on July 14, 2015, 10:12:02 AM
Early War Miniatures has a range of O scale Plains Indian - Sioux, Crow, Pawnee, Cheyenne plus Cavalry and extras.

http://earlywarminiatures.com/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=394

The online site only lists the Sioux codes but if you send them a note they'll send you a complete list of the others. I have just got the list and debating 28mm or O scale. The Early War range looks fairly complete too - buffalo, dog travois, pony herd ...

@HerbyF What rules will you use for buffalo hunting?
Title: Re: Thoughts for a project please :-)
Post by: Silent Invader on July 14, 2015, 10:47:40 AM
Thanks for all the suggestions - much appreciated.

*cough*   Boer War...

Is kind of like the West really  lol. (and yes, Matt!)  

The Boer War isn't forgotten, it's just delayed  ;). Much like Wars of the Roses.  Still got a ton of figures to do just awaiting the genre-specific mojo.

Ah, Major Dundee. A Sam P classic.  

So, I'm thinking about roughly 1865-1875, definitely Apaches, definitely raids and pursuits. Sadly, this seems to rule out quite a few of the Boothill range as being 1830s (?) though I could perhaps do some weapons compromises or upgrades?  I like the Artizan range of Apache (they have the look I am after) and also Galloping Major. Does anyone mix these ranges (any comparison shots?).  Regarding cavalry and civilians, I see that the Galloping Major cavalry are designed for 1880 but does anyone know about the timespan of the Artizan?

Thanks all!

Edit: Forgot to say that I appreciate the Foundry tip but have parked them as being (possibly) too small to mix and having a pack mix that doesn't particularly appeal (not really interested in the bows).

Edit: ..... definitely raids and pursuits...... Change that to: definitely raids, pursuits and revenge  ;)


Title: Re: Thoughts for a project please :-)
Post by: Ray Earle on July 14, 2015, 10:54:22 AM
Valdez.  :D

To be honest, Malamutes ideas are probably more appropriate.

Look forward to seeing what you come up with.
Title: Re: Thoughts for a project please :-)
Post by: Silent Invader on July 14, 2015, 11:04:35 AM
Oh yes, Valdez. Certainly meets the Right Vs Might angle. A great suggestion. Might be able to work in some Apache!

To be honest, Malamutes ideas are probably more appropriate.

He's a wee genius  :D
Title: Re: Thoughts for a project please :-)
Post by: Ray Earle on July 14, 2015, 11:11:16 AM
Regarding cavalry and civilians, I see that the Galloping Major cavalry are designed for 1880 but does anyone know about the timespan of the Artizan?

Artizan are designed for the mid 1870's, around the time of the Little Bighorn. There is a pack with the earlier Spencer(?) carbine but the majority are armed with the Springfield.
Title: Re: Thoughts for a project please :-)
Post by: has.been on July 14, 2015, 11:17:39 AM
Sounds interesting. I too love the Boot Hill range. I can see it now, a Tex-Mex farm (see just about any of the John Wayne movies for inspiration. e.g. El Dorado etc.) a few musket equipped defenders against lance & bow Apache raiders. Various sub plots such as:=
Driving off the livestock;
Setting fire to the hay/roof/out buildings;
Defenders getting some water from the well/stream;
Defenders getting someone off table so they can get help;
taking live hostage(s) [which would lead to the next 'searchers' scenario] or
setting an ambush for the relief force (Boot Hill do some lovely Mexican lancers)

Also fun if, when not in view of the defenders, the attackers can swap a figure for 2 or 3 markers (numbered tokens are best. the attacker notes down what number is the figure & keeps the defender guessing as to where 'those pesky varmits are.) only revealing when in sight or fired at (wasting limited ammo.) 
Title: Re: Thoughts for a project please :-)
Post by: Malamute on July 14, 2015, 11:29:14 AM
I think you would have no problem mixing Artizan with Galloping Major. The only issue with the Galloping Major cavalry is no horse mounted troops.

The Artizan cavalry are either classic 7th Cav style or they do Buffalo Soldiers who would be more appropriate for fighting the Apaches and both ranges have mounted figures. (except for the Apache)

The Foundry Apaches are in my opinion the best available, but are the original Copplestone sculpts which are nearer 25mm. So they are not going to mix well with more recent ranges.

And yes Boot Hill figures will only really work up until 1850. Apart from the weapons the clothes do not suit the later years...

You probably only need a dozen Apache so buy the Artizan ones and the Galloping Major ones and the cavalry from Artizan.

Job done. :)

Then you will need some Homesteaders... ;)
Title: Re: Thoughts for a project please :-)
Post by: Silent Invader on July 14, 2015, 11:37:39 AM
Gosh, it's all coming together... And so quickly!  :D

Thanks again folks  8)

Title: Re: Thoughts for a project please :-)
Post by: Malamute on July 14, 2015, 11:41:09 AM
Gosh, it's all coming together... And so quickly!  :D

Thanks again folks  8)



It surely is. :)

 I love the Old West, it's my absolute favourite period,  one I always come back to. ;D

Let me know when the time is right and you need heads up for your settlers, I have cobbled together a decent selection over the years ;)
Title: Re: Thinking through an 1870 ish Apache project
Post by: Ray Earle on July 14, 2015, 11:52:10 AM
If I may make a suggestion for homesteaders if you are using primarily Artizan figures; Mutineer miniatures 'defenders of Lucknow' includes some very useful figures including armed females (and a Sikh, who I'm sure you'll find use for) and are sculpted by Mike Owen so they'll fit in seamlessly. :)
Title: Re: Thinking through an 1870 ish Apache project
Post by: Mason on July 14, 2015, 01:34:56 PM
Regarding the Apache, I have mixed quite a few in my band as I think a little difference in size is pretty realistic....

(http://i1033.photobucket.com/albums/a416/blindbeggarminiatures/4a9c0a10-a6b2-489b-ab13-ce05424b720a_zpsj8o80srp.jpg)


In this lot are Black Scorpion, Galloping Major, DMH Renegades, Foundry (mounted) and a few of my own figures converted to more 'western-dressed' chaps.
(The 'Trapper' at the back is from Boot Hill, by the way).

More pictures here... http://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=60011.2370


I think that seem to blend just fine to be honest.

Hope that helps in some way...

Edit: All painted by Bugsda, by the way....
Title: Re: Thinking through an 1870 ish Apache project
Post by: Bugsda on July 14, 2015, 02:43:12 PM
Have a read of David Roberts "Once They Moved Like The Wind" The book follows the Apache wars from the Bascom balls up in 1861 to the surrender of Geronimo in 1886, excellent book.
I have a well thumbed paperback you can borrow if you can't get one. I think Malamute's also got a copy, probably less well thumbed.

Title: Re: Thinking through an 1870 ish Apache project
Post by: Mason on July 14, 2015, 03:07:27 PM
I think Malamute's also got a copy, probably less well thumbed.

 lol lol

Title: Re: Thinking through an 1870 ish Apache project
Post by: Bugsda on July 14, 2015, 03:13:50 PM
(http://i57.tinypic.com/64493k.jpg)

......and you gotta' watch Ulzana!
Title: Re: Thinking through an 1870 ish Apache project
Post by: frank xerox on July 14, 2015, 05:45:25 PM
Ulzanas a must, Shalako is worth a watch and Elmore Leonard's Westerns are great for inspiration
Title: Re: Thinking through an 1870 ish Apache project
Post by: Ray Earle on July 14, 2015, 06:06:01 PM
(http://i57.tinypic.com/64493k.jpg)

......and you gotta' watch Ulzana!

Yeah, sneaky little bugger..  ;)
Title: Re: Thinking through an 1870/1880 ish Apache project
Post by: Silent Invader on July 14, 2015, 07:05:51 PM
 lol

I was out and about earlier today so I picked up the DVDs for Ulzano's Raid and Chato's Land - I've seen both before but IIRC they're the style and ambience I want to recreate so a few more viewings are definitely required.  

I'm particularly intrigued by the Black Scorpion horses as methinks I could double up on the Apache and use the second set to make paired riders (hmm, though I'd also need to double up on the horses for spare horses!).

I'll keep an eye out for the book as (and yes I am a Philistine) I like not only to thumb through but to make notes inside as well.  

Thanks again everyone for all the help, which is proving most inspirational.
Title: Re: Thinking through an 1870 ish Apache project
Post by: Mason on July 14, 2015, 07:30:40 PM
I'm particularly intrigued by the Black Scorpion horses as methinks I could double up on the Apache and use the second set to make paired riders (hmm, though I'd also need to double up on the horses for spare horses!).


Go for it, I reckon.

I am going to get another set of the GM cavalry and make my own mounted versions as the Foundry cavalry I do have don't match up well enough with them.
Not sure which horses to use yet, as the Foundry versions look too small.
The BS ones may well work better, so thanks for nudging me in that direction.
 :D

Edit: The BS ones would work well for Apache, with the lack of 'clutter', but the resin puts me off a little.
I prefer metal.

The DMH versions may work better for my Cavalry or maybe the Perry ACW versions, which I already have a few of to use as 'taxis' around town.
I shall have to compare them with the Cavalry troopers and see what will work best

I will let you know when I do.....

Title: Re: Thinking through an 1870 ish Apache project
Post by: lethallee61 on July 14, 2015, 11:08:39 PM
These threads always bring a nostalgic smile to an old movie watching gamer.

And for a non-violent gaming suggestion, there's always "F-Troop".  lol
Title: Re: Thinking through an 1870 ish Apache project
Post by: HerbyF on July 15, 2015, 04:16:21 AM
Quote
@HerbyF What rules will you use for buffalo hunting?
Originally I was looking for alternate scenarios for Legends of the Old West. A buffaloe hunt would have been a great alternative to gain experience for plains Indian war bands. But I never got around to working out the rules. I have 32 in my herd so far.
Title: Re: Thinking through an 1870 ish Apache project
Post by: Silent Invader on July 15, 2015, 11:12:20 AM
Regarding the Apache, I have mixed quite a few in my band as I think a little difference in size is pretty realistic....

(http://i1033.photobucket.com/albums/a416/blindbeggarminiatures/4a9c0a10-a6b2-489b-ab13-ce05424b720a_zpsj8o80srp.jpg)


In this lot are Black Scorpion, Galloping Major, DMH Renegades, Foundry (mounted) and a few of my own figures converted to more 'western-dressed' chaps.
(The 'Trapper' at the back is from Boot Hill, by the way).

More pictures here... http://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=60011.2370


I think that seem to blend just fine to be honest.

Hope that helps in some way...

Edit: All painted by Bugsda, by the way....

Thanks for the link Paul - lovely band you have there (on which I commented at the time and yet they slipped my mind...... it's an age thing!)  :-* 8)

I have a cunning plan for Artizan Apaches with paired* mounted versions..... more in a few weeks unless it doesn't work in which case I never wrote this  ;) :D

*Each mini will be named with its own personality/skills/etc, so pairing is 'essential'

Title: Re: Thinking through an 1870/1880 ish Apache project
Post by: Eric the Shed on July 15, 2015, 11:15:26 AM
Good Luck with the new project SI...your painstaking research puts the rest of us to shame

Title: Re: Thinking through an 1870 ish Apache project
Post by: Mason on July 15, 2015, 11:18:04 AM
Thanks for the link Paul - lovely band you have there (on which I commented at the time and yet they slipped my mind...... it's an age thing!)  :-* 8)

Not the best picture for proper size comparison, I just wanted to show that mixing brands can work, in my opinion.




*Each mini will be named with its own personality/skills/etc, so pairing is 'essential'

You may find that they end up with their own names as play dictates.
For example, the fella in the 'floral chintze' has gained the name of 'Betty' (very Apache..... ::)), and the fella in the green top waving the club has gained the name 'Falls from Sky'.....I shall let you work that one out for yourselves.... :D

Title: Re: Thinking through an 1870/1880 ish Apache project
Post by: Silent Invader on July 15, 2015, 07:25:03 PM
Thanks Guys (and Eric you're too kind.... LAFers have pretty much told me what to do on this one!  ;))  :D

I've ordered some test packs of the Artizan Apaches. I'm torn on the Cavalry as each of the 7th Cavalry on foot come with a mounted equivalent but the 10th Cavalry (Buffalo Soldiers) have only the foot variant.  My hands say that going with the 7th would be a far easier option but my head and heart say to put the extra effort in and go with the 10th, doubling them up to make some mounted conversions. I'll see how I get on with the mounted Apaches before deciding.
Title: Re: Thinking through an 1870/1880 ish Apache project
Post by: OSHIROmodels on July 15, 2015, 07:46:37 PM
I ain't seen a spreadsheet yet and until I do this project doesn't exist  ;D

cheers

James
Title: Re: Thinking through an 1870/1880 ish Apache project
Post by: Silent Invader on July 15, 2015, 08:17:43 PM
I ain't seen a spreadsheet yet and until I do this project doesn't exist  ;D

Then you shall be surprised!  :D

No spreadsheet required for the terrain plan as I shall be making alternative-use of the tiles from the 2nd Boer War, just leaving out the railway line and pillbox and replacing some of the vegetation inserts with rocky crag inserts.

No spreadsheet required for the minis as only 25 are required (albeit complicated by mounted doubles).
Apache x 9
Cavalry x 12
Scout/Sheriff x 1
Settlers/Posse x 3

It'll be a small game ...... Honest!
Title: Re: Thinking through an 1870/1880 ish Apache project
Post by: Mason on July 15, 2015, 09:20:56 PM
No spreadsheet required for the minis as only 25 are required (albeit complicated by mounted doubles).
Apache x 9
Cavalry x 12
Scout/Sheriff x 1
Settlers/Posse x 3

It'll be a small game ...... Honest!

 lol lol lol

That is what I said.....
 ;D

Title: Re: Thinking through an 1870/1880 ish Apache project
Post by: Malamute on July 15, 2015, 09:34:03 PM


No spreadsheet required for the minis as only 25 are required (albeit complicated by mounted doubles).
Apache x 9
Cavalry x 12
Scout/Sheriff x 1
Settlers/Posse x 3



No where near enough lol
Title: Re: Thinking through an 1870/1880 ish Apache project
Post by: Silent Invader on July 15, 2015, 09:45:46 PM
The two of you are VERY bad influences!  ;D
Title: Re: Thinking through an 1870/1880 ish Apache project
Post by: Constable Bertrand on July 15, 2015, 09:48:20 PM
tiles from the 2nd Boer War, just leaving out the railway line and pillbox

Bummer, I was secretly hoping that project had vanished, and was going to snap up the terrain down the track.

Better make my own then ;)

Best of luck with your sand world Steve. Remember to keep it open for a potential space port ;)

Cheers
Matt.
Title: Re: Thinking through an 1870/1880 ish Apache project
Post by: Malamute on July 16, 2015, 04:25:03 AM

I have the perfect scout figure for you.  :)

Gorgon Studios Texas Ranger. He is wearing a fringed buckskin coat and he comes with a mounted version as well sculpted by Mike Owen so will fit perfectly with your Artizan figures.. ;D

http://www.gorgon-studios.com/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=17

The Tom Chaney lookalike would make a nice homesteader too. :)
Title: Re: Thinking through an 1870/1880 ish Apache project
Post by: Silent Invader on July 16, 2015, 05:10:23 AM
Nick - you're sooooo right: the Texas Ranger has 'the hard-bitten and unflappable' look. I've already ordered the Artizan Pony Express rider as I thought he looked 'young and enthusiastic' - I'm now thinking he'll make an oh-so-irritating unwanted side-kick to the Texas Ranger.  8)

And Matt.... I'm sorry to disappoint  :D
Title: Re: Apache Rising: ud 16/8 Mike Owen question
Post by: Silent Invader on July 16, 2015, 10:43:05 AM
Question for the well informed

For his various 'compatible' Wild West sculpts (such as Artizan and Gorgon) did Mike use his own horses? If not, whose? In either case, are riderless versions carried by anyone in any genre?

Thanks  :)
Title: Re: Apache Rising: ud 16/8 Mike Owen question
Post by: Ray Earle on July 16, 2015, 11:09:29 AM
I'm pretty sure the horses for the Artizan 7th cavalry are Mikes own, the Gorgon ones are definitely different (not sure if Mike sculpted them or not), but as they're not cavalry mounts that shouldn't be an issue.

I think Great Escape Games use the Artizan horses as riderless mounts on their range.

The cavalry bundle/equipment is sculpted to the horse.
Title: Re: Apache Rising: ud 16/8 Mike Owen question
Post by: Silent Invader on July 16, 2015, 01:26:57 PM
I'm pretty sure the horses for the Artizan 7th cavalry are Mikes own, the Gorgon ones are definitely different (not sure if Mike sculpted them or not), but as they're not cavalry mounts that shouldn't be an issue.

I think Great Escape Games use the Artizan horses as riderless mounts on their range.

The cavalry bundle/equipment is sculpted to the horse.

You are correct, thanks very much!  :)

It states in the product narrative that they are by Artizan and they look to be identical to the mounts for the Artizan 7th Cavalry.   8)  Not sure about the horses without bridles though, as they're not pictured, which is a shame.

Incidentally, I now realise that when Paul (Mason) refers to the DMH Renegades he's talking about Dead Man's Hand.
Title: Re: Apache Rising: ud 16/8 Mike Owen question
Post by: rumacara on July 17, 2015, 10:51:44 PM
Late in this topic but here are some ideas/movies:

First Old Glory has some apaches both mounted and dismounted more compatible with foundry ones.

Movies to watch and i forgot many on the subject:

Geronimo - an american legend (1993)
Geronimo - another 1993 film with apaches fighting mexicans (1830īs, 40īs)
Taza Son of Cochise
Rio Conchos
Buffallo soldiers - both versions of 1970īs and i think 2000īs
Broken arrow - how can it be possible no one mentioned this before? :o
Arrowhead - Jack Palance and Charlton Heston

For inspirational painting about apaches search for David Nordalīs paintings and also Frank Mccarthy. Lots of ideas.

Hope its usefull.

Rui
Title: Re: Apache! :: ud 16/8 Mike Owen question
Post by: Silent Invader on July 18, 2015, 12:26:05 AM
Thanks Rui - Really useful info that is much appreciated. 8) The list of movies is especially helpful.  :)

Another more general question: does anyone sell packs of 'Wild West' weapons? Cheers.
Title: Re: Apache! :: ud 16/8 Mike Owen question
Post by: Malamute on July 18, 2015, 04:12:39 PM
Been thinking some more, you need a covered wagon. :D

The Apache need to have something to shoot at and the settelers need some transport to get from their homestead to the fort. ;)

Which means you'll need a homestead and a fort  lol
Title: Re: Apache! :: ud 16/8 Mike Owen question
Post by: Silent Invader on July 18, 2015, 04:48:41 PM
I want to keep to a 5x2 or 3x3 board so no room for a fort but a homestead and a covered wagon are definitely on the list.

 :D
Title: Re: Apache! :: ud 16/8 Mike Owen question
Post by: Darkoath on July 19, 2015, 06:15:12 PM
I believe that Ral Partha or now Iron Wind Metals, has a weapons sprue with a lever rifle, shotgun, and some pistols, a cattle skull, and an anvil on a stump.  They also sell some buffalo too I think.
Title: Re: Apache! :: Nailing down the minis
Post by: Silent Invader on July 20, 2015, 07:44:59 AM
Thanks Darkoath, much appreciated, that's a nice sprue. Looking into it a bit more, there's some suggestion that it's 'heroic' scaled, which if correct is a real shame.  :'(

On the plus side, having been prompted I recalled that about 6 years ago I bought 5 of the Conquest Old West Sprues and a rummage through the spare parts bins revealed I still have 5 Winchesters and 4 other percussion carbines.

Rather handily, Nick (Malamute) has solved my wagon driver dilemma by pointing out the Northstar Africa Boer wagon driver, who is also used as the Dead Mans Hand Old West wagon driver. He comes with a walking assistant and with some judicious converting I reckon I can making sitting and standing versions of both figures, with the assistant gaining a few more clothes and swapping his whip for a shotgun.

http://www.northstarfigures.com/prod.php?prod=4592 (http://www.northstarfigures.com/prod.php?prod=4592)

Picture from Northstar:

(http://www.northstarfigures.com/images/2/img4592.jpg)

For a wagon, I expect that I'll go for the laser-etched model by 4ground, converting a second into a crashed/overturned version.

http://www.northstarfigures.com/prod.php?prod=4220 (http://www.northstarfigures.com/prod.php?prod=4220)
Title: Re: Apache! :: Nailing down the minis
Post by: Malamute on July 20, 2015, 08:18:14 AM

On the plus side, having been prompted I recalled that about 6 years ago I bought 5 of the Conquest Old West Sprues and a rummage through the spare parts bins revealed I still have 5 Winchesters and 4 other percussion carbines.


I think I have some of those kicking around somewhere left over from when I picked up the Comanche. You can have whatever you need from them, I am sure there are some revolvers as well as the rifles. :)
Title: Re: Apache! :: Nailing down the minis
Post by: Silent Invader on July 20, 2015, 08:48:22 AM
Ooooh yes please! PM incoming  :)
Title: Re: Apache! :: Nailing down the minis
Post by: Mason on July 20, 2015, 09:51:34 AM
I think I have some of those kicking around somewhere left over from when I picked up the Comanche. You can have whatever you need from them, I am sure there are some revolvers as well as the rifles. :)

I can sort you out with a couple of shotguns and a wagon driver if you need one....?

This one looks fairly similar to the one you posted...

(http://i1033.photobucket.com/albums/a416/blindbeggarminiatures/ProspectorandWIPandJDstuff029_zps10ef1287.jpg)

Let me know, mate....
 ;)

Title: Re: Apache! :: Nailing down the minis
Post by: Silent Invader on July 20, 2015, 10:06:44 AM
Thanks Paul but he and his pard'ner are already ordered. Shotguns I'm ok for as I have the Miniature Mojo ones but thanks again for the offer.  :)

Title: Re: Apache! :: Nailing down the minis
Post by: Galloping Major on July 20, 2015, 11:21:16 AM
Great stuff SI  8)

Another one to watch (didn't spot it in the lists) "The Missing" 2003 with Tommy Lee Jones.  :)



www.gallopingmajorwargames.com
Title: Re: Apache! :: Nailing down the minis
Post by: Silent Invader on July 20, 2015, 12:15:44 PM
Thanks Lance, and yes a great movie!  I shall collate them all together into a single list at some point.

Btw - your Apache pack is on the list to go with the Artizans. Very nice.  8)
Title: Re: Apache! :: Nailing down the minis
Post by: Silent Invader on July 20, 2015, 02:27:30 PM
WANTED!!

I'm after two copies of a single figure from the Dead Mans Hand pack of Citizens:

http://www.greatescapegames.co.uk/deadmanshand/dmhminiatures/dead-mans-hand-citizens.html (http://www.greatescapegames.co.uk/deadmanshand/dmhminiatures/dead-mans-hand-citizens.html)

Specifically, two copies (yes, two!) of the lady with the pistol


Title: Re: Apache! :: Nailing down the minis
Post by: Silent Invader on July 21, 2015, 09:26:29 AM
Hmmm quick change of plan. The Deadwood Trixie from Dead Mans Hand is no longer wanted as it suddenly occurred to me that there was another mini that could make a great Jane Russell lookey-likey, similar to as she appeared in The Outlaw.

(http://leadadventureforum.com/gallery/22/2031_21_07_15_11_01_50_2.jpg)

Obviously, all homesteader women wore off-the-shoulder blouses and had magnificent cleavages. Right?

From the Hasslefree Website: The Strumpet:

(http://leadadventureforum.com/gallery/22/2031_21_07_15_11_01_51_3.jpg)

http://www.hfminis.co.uk/shop?product=strumpet~hfv003&category=miniatures~fantasy-humans~fantasy-%26%0D%0Asteampunk~fantasy-villagers (http://www.hfminis.co.uk/shop?product=strumpet~hfv003&category=miniatures~fantasy-humans~fantasy-%26%0D%0Asteampunk~fantasy-villagers)

A great Kev White sculpt that I've used before. This time I think I'll touch in the clothes with green stuff and add a pistol to the right hand.

Much like the Artizan Apache, I'll do two copies, one on foot and the other mounted, using the Conquest (UK) plastic horses. A bit like this early WIP I started on last night:

(http://leadadventureforum.com/gallery/22/2031_21_07_15_11_01_50_0.jpg)

By-the-by I also started on the Artizan Pony Express Rider (a possible suitor for Miss Jane), who came with a horse but whom I'm also switching to the Conquest plastics for a matching riderless mount. He'll actually play the role of a young and enthusiastic Texas Ranger and so I made a few other changes. The foot mini had his tiny revolver swapped out for one of the meatier Conquest (USA) versions plus a Winchester added across his knee. The mounted mini had the right hand modified and rotated with a Winchester inserted to replace the whip/strap/thong that he'd previously been wielding.

(http://leadadventureforum.com/gallery/22/2031_21_07_15_11_01_50_1.jpg)

Title: Re: Apache! :: Nailing down the minis
Post by: Eric the Shed on July 21, 2015, 09:46:12 AM
So the Winter project has started in July...S.I. unless you have moved to the south of the equator its most definitely the summertime now....

 :D
Title: Re: Apache! :: Nailing down the minis
Post by: Silent Invader on July 21, 2015, 09:54:41 AM
 lol

I see how it looks Giles!  :D

The reality is that I've bought a few figures from a couple of the ranges to knock them together to make sure it all works. For example ensuring the Conquest (UK) horses look right, etc.

Thus the shopping list (aka The Spreadsheet) is coming together for the full set of purchases later in the year. The project needs about 35 characters. So with doubles that's  obviously about 70 minis and about 70 horses and I have a lot of WW1 to finish before I can contemplate that!!!
Title: Re: Apache! :: Nailing down the minis
Post by: Malamute on July 21, 2015, 02:56:55 PM
Nice work on that pony express ride, I like what you have done adding the Winchester. He looks the part now. ;D
Title: Re: Apache! :: Nailing down the minis
Post by: Silent Invader on July 23, 2015, 01:12:19 PM
Ta!

The (Steve Saleh?) Northstar North Africa Boer Wagon Driver is a good stylistic/proportions match with the Artizan (Mike Owen) Old West range.

Artizan Pony Express Rider to first left and Apache to third left:

(http://leadadventureforum.com/gallery/22/2031_23_07_15_3_05_44.jpg)

Incidentally, I've bought two sets to do a cut and shut for standing and sitting variants of both. The driver's whip will be replaced with a shotgun rested pointing upwards from thigh.
Title: Re: Apache! :: Nailing down the minis
Post by: Malamute on July 23, 2015, 02:33:39 PM
Excellent. ;D
Title: Re: Apache! :: Nailing down the minis
Post by: Silent Invader on July 24, 2015, 10:43:22 AM
 :)

I'm after another Steve Saleh mini, the single Apache from the Desperados set for Dead Mans Hand.

From the DMH website, chap at far right:

(http://www.greatescapegames.co.uk/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/d/e/desperado_gang.jpg)
Title: Re: Apache! :: Nailing down the minis
Post by: Silent Invader on August 02, 2015, 10:38:20 AM
Still looking for that DMH Desperados Apache  ;)

Not a lot of progress as I have been painting for WW1 but purely for purposes of research have watched Ulzana's Raid and Major Dundee.  It was a chore but it had to be done!  :D

In fact, Major Dundee was a most useful reminder of the Austrian hottie Senta Berger .... I think I would have preferred the movie without the long-winded romantic entanglements but the Strumpet mini by Hasslefree has now arrived (yep, two copies for a mounted alternate) and with some mods will make a great Senta-equivalent for this project.

Next on the viewing list is Chato's Land, which reminds me that I need to find a stylistically similar Apache woman. Thoughts anyone?
Title: Re: Apache! :: Nailing down the minis
Post by: Malamute on August 02, 2015, 01:17:25 PM
Still looking for that DMH Desperados Apache  ;)

Not a lot of progress as I have been painting for WW1 but purely for purposes of research have watched Ulzana's Raid and Major Dundee.  It was a chore but it had to be done!  :D

In fact, Major Dundee was a most useful reminder of the Austrian hottie Santa Berger .... I think I would have preferred the movie without the long-winded romantic entanglements but the Strumpet mini by Hasslefree has now arrived (yep, two copies for a mounted alternate) and with some mods will make a great Santa-equivalent for this project.

Next on the viewing list is Chato's Land, which reminds me that I need to find a stylistically similar Apache woman. Thoughts anyone?

Foundry has a nice Apache woman, or a very stylised Indian maiden in its Rendezvous pack from the mountain men range.

http://www.wargamesfoundry.com/our-ranges/old-west/old-west-rocky-mountain-rendezvous-collection-bcow007/

Pack VOW7/5 high times at the rendezvous.

I might have a Foundry female Apache lying around somewhere. I can't find her on their website now.
Title: Re: Apache! :: Nailing down the minis
Post by: Silent Invader on August 02, 2015, 02:47:17 PM
The one in the foundry link is excellent but I'm always intrigued by what you might find in your drawers .....  :D
Title: Re: Apache! :: Nailing down the minis
Post by: Malamute on August 02, 2015, 05:26:18 PM
The one in the foundry link is excellent but I'm always intrigued by what you might find in your drawers .....  :D

Sometimes I even surprise myself.  :o
Title: Re: Apache! :: Nailing down the minis
Post by: Silent Invader on August 02, 2015, 06:42:23 PM
 lol
Sometimes I even surprise myself.  :o

 lol
Title: Re: Apache! :: Nailing down the minis
Post by: Galloping Major on August 04, 2015, 08:01:44 AM
I have some of those Foundry Apache women (unpainted) somewhere among my stuff, they did 2 if I remember correctly, one with a cradle board, the other with a shallow basket on her hip  :)


www.gallopingmajorwargames.com
Title: Re: Apache! :: Nailing down the minis
Post by: Galloping Major on August 04, 2015, 08:26:46 AM
(http://www.gallopingmajorwargames.com/userimages/Apache1.4.jpg)
Here's the only one of my first Galloping Major Apache pack TWR APA1 that I've been able to afford time to paint. He's armed with a stone headed Apache club and a Richards conversion of the 1860 Army Colt (I don't believe in generics). Below is the content of the pack, mounted versions and more Apaches are planned.
(http://www.gallopingmajorwargames.com/userimages/Apache1.jpg)

www.gallopingmajorwargames.com
Title: Re: Apache! :: Nailing down the minis
Post by: Silent Invader on August 04, 2015, 09:15:13 AM
I have some of those Foundry Apache women (unpainted) somewhere among my stuff, they did 2 if I remember correctly, one with a cradle board, the other with a shallow basket on her hip  :)


www.gallopingmajorwargames.com

Thanks.  :) Thinking about it a bit more, I'm quite sold on the Indian maiden (or a very similar pose) that Nick linked to, which used as an Apache is probably more cinematic than historical (but then again so is the project, as evidenced by the research material!  lol).

BTW: Very nice GM minis and thanks for adding them here.  8)
Title: Re: Apache! :: Nailing down the minis
Post by: rumacara on August 05, 2015, 07:07:15 AM
CP models also have an indian woman that might work.
Title: Re: Apache! :: Nailing down the minis
Post by: Silent Invader on August 05, 2015, 07:29:59 AM
CP models also have an indian woman that might work.

That's a most useful tip, thank you, as I would never have thought to look in their Vicoriana pages!  :)

http://www.cpmodelsminiatures.co.uk/CP%20MODELS%2028MM%20VICTORIANA.htm (http://www.cpmodelsminiatures.co.uk/CP%20MODELS%2028MM%20VICTORIANA.htm)

I shall make my final decision after watching Chato's Land  :)
Title: Re: Apache! :: Nailing down the minis
Post by: Malamute on August 05, 2015, 08:00:51 AM
That's a most useful tip, thank you, as I would never have thought to look in their Vicoriana pages!  :)

http://www.cpmodelsminiatures.co.uk/CP%20MODELS%2028MM%20VICTORIANA.htm (http://www.cpmodelsminiatures.co.uk/CP%20MODELS%2028MM%20VICTORIANA.htm)

I shall make my final decision after watching Chato's Land  :)

She's not quite as comely as the Foundry girl. lol
Title: Re: Apache! :: Nailing down the minis
Post by: Mason on August 05, 2015, 08:05:57 AM
She's not quite as comely as the Foundry girl. lol

 lol

Quite.

More Ernie Wise than Pocahontas.
 ;)


Title: Re: Apache! :: Nailing down the minis
Post by: Galloping Major on August 05, 2015, 01:58:51 PM
lol

Quite.

More Ernie Wise than Pocahontas.
 ;)



lol
Title: Re: Apache! :: Nailing down the minis
Post by: Silent Invader on August 06, 2015, 10:52:12 AM
 :D

Actually, giving it more thought, Hasslefree do have a couple of minis that might make useful conversion material for an Apache maiden in part-westernised dress: Alicia (long skirt with sword that could become a knife) and Layla (who's presently nekkid).  I realise that I have made life difficult for myself by requiring two copies of each mini!

On the subject of two of each, I had a result on Ebay where someone had broken a couple of packs of the Hired Guns by Artizan, which means I will soon have a pair of the westernised Apache with revolver to become my Indian scout.
Title: Re: Apache! :: Nailing down the minis
Post by: Captain Blood on August 06, 2015, 04:12:00 PM
Come on, you don't have time to be nancying around with Apache maidens... You've got 82 Germans to paint!  ;)

lol
Title: Re: Apache! :: Nailing down the minis
Post by: Silent Invader on August 06, 2015, 04:39:29 PM
Ha bloody ha!  :D

For the next 10 days or so I shall be doing various bits of 1:1 plastering so too much dust around for painting minis! Thus the short interlude for a bit of making and a bit of shopping. ;)

I might even assemble the laser-cut MDF wagon (two copies of course, one to be smashed up) which I am sure will excite James  lol
Title: Re: Apache! :: Nailing down the minis
Post by: Mason on August 06, 2015, 05:07:24 PM
I might even assemble the laser-cut MDF wagon (two copies of course, one to be smashed up) which I am sure will excite James  lol

 lol lol

He may even offer to help out with that bit.
 :D

Title: Re: Apache! :: Nailing down the minis
Post by: Constable Bertrand on August 06, 2015, 09:27:52 PM
The hasslefree boudicea figure in the fantasy section may work for a native American. I've seen one (Michi?) With a Clint Eastwood poncho that looked close to what you may need.

That's very time effective of you Steve, also encourages your other half to not give you jobs that makes dust ;) lol

Cheers
Matt
Title: Re: Apache! :: Nailing down the minis
Post by: Silent Invader on August 06, 2015, 10:30:18 PM
Thanks Matt, I'll check that one out  :)
Title: Re: Apache! :: Nailing down the minis
Post by: Constable Bertrand on August 07, 2015, 07:47:14 AM
now im on a comp ;)

(http://www.hfminis.co.uk/img_cms/product_images/H068%20Boudi%20web.jpg)
http://www.hfminis.co.uk/shop?product=boudi~hfh068&category=fantasy-%26%0D%0Asteampunk~fantasy-humans
Title: Re: Apache! :: Nailing down the minis
Post by: Silent Invader on August 07, 2015, 09:30:28 AM
Thanks very much Matt  :)

I think I've made a decision though: the HF Alicia

This is the sort of Apache woman I want:

(http://leadadventureforum.com/gallery/22/2031_07_08_15_11_16_08_2.jpg)

With this sort of skirt:

(http://leadadventureforum.com/gallery/22/2031_07_08_15_11_16_07_1.jpg)

I have no idea of the sources for the above images but the following is from the HF site:

(http://leadadventureforum.com/gallery/22/2031_07_08_15_11_16_07_0.jpg)

It looks like HF Alicia will get me about 90% there: swap out the sword for a knife, scrape away the leggings, cut in a headband, add the bottom of a shirt, scrape back the sleeves to show some forearm, cut out an open neck and add buttons for the shirt, etc
Title: Re: Apache! :: Nailing down the minis
Post by: Constable Bertrand on August 07, 2015, 09:44:34 AM
This is the sort of Apache woman I want:
(http://leadadventureforum.com/gallery/22/2031_07_08_15_11_16_08_2.jpg)

(http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h214/LeggomySmiles/funny/GIFS/bb95ab23.gif)

Who doesn't?!

Cheers
Matt
Title: Re: Apache! :: Nailing down the minis
Post by: Malamute on August 07, 2015, 10:30:44 AM
The lovely Apache displaying some cleavage is Julie Newmar from the film McKenna's Gold.

Gregory Peck, Omar Shariff (playing a Mexican obviously), Telly Savalas and a host of other character actors looking for a fabled lost valley of gold....

Incidentally Julie Newmar went on to play Catwoman in the Batman TV series. ;D

Title: Re: Apache! :: Nailing down the minis
Post by: Silent Invader on August 07, 2015, 11:02:41 AM
You certainly know your leading ladies!   :D

I've added that one to the list of DVDs .... And now you mention it I do see Catwoman

http://m.imdb.com/title/tt0064615/ (http://m.imdb.com/title/tt0064615/)

If nothing, this thread is flagging some great movies from the 60s and 70s.

Incidrntally, has anyone seen Apache Woman ... A German spaghetti western from 1976 in the style of Soldier Blue

http://m.imdb.com/title/tt0168687/ (http://m.imdb.com/title/tt0168687/)
Title: Re: Apache! :: Nailing down the minis
Post by: Mason on August 07, 2015, 11:04:39 AM
It looks like HF Alicia will get me about 90% there: swap out the sword for a knife, scrape away the leggings, cut in a headband, add the bottom of a shirt, scrape back the sleeves to show some forearm, cut out an open neck and add buttons for the shirt, etc

Blimey, mate.
That sounds like a fair bit of messing around.

It may be easier to get one of the HF nudes and add the clothes.... ??? ???
Title: Re: Apache! :: Nailing down the minis
Post by: rumacara on August 07, 2015, 11:11:47 AM
Quote
Incidrntally, has anyone seen Apache Woman ... A German spaghetti western from 1976 in the style of Soldier Blue

http://m.imdb.com/title/tt0168687/

Not worth the time. Bad film. :?
Title: Re: Apache! :: Nailing down the minis
Post by: Silent Invader on August 07, 2015, 11:50:13 AM
Not worth the time. Bad film. :?

Thanks. It's now off the list!
Title: Re: Apache! :: Nailing down the minis
Post by: Silent Invader on August 07, 2015, 11:51:22 AM
Blimey, mate.
That sounds like a fair bit of messing around.

It may be easier to get one of the HF nudes and add the clothes.... ??? ???

I like to tinker  ;) :D
Title: Re: Apache! :: Nailing down the minis
Post by: Malamute on August 07, 2015, 11:58:04 AM
Have you added Shalako to your list?

I think it was mentioned earlier in the thread. Sean Connery, Brigitte Bardot, Honour Blackman and Eric Skyes!

You can't argue with that line up. lol
Title: Re: Apache! :: Nailing down the minis
Post by: Silent Invader on August 07, 2015, 01:22:03 PM
Have you added Shalako to your list?

I think it was mentioned earlier in the thread. Sean Connery, Brigitte Bardot, Honour Blackman and Eric Skyes!

You can't argue with that line up. lol

Ah yes, it's on the list

http://m.imdb.com/title/tt0063592/reviews?ref_=m_tt_urv#showAll (http://m.imdb.com/title/tt0063592/reviews?ref_=m_tt_urv#showAll)
Title: Re: Apache! :: UD 10/8 rolling, rolling... Wagon wip
Post by: Silent Invader on August 10, 2015, 12:40:49 PM
A smallish update of progress with the wagon, which is a 4Ground lasered-MDF kit.  It comes without a canvas cover so I've started to add one using paper/glue that will get greenstuff detailing. The driver is from the Northstar Africa range to which I'm adding a shotgun. The horses are actually by Perry and need some changes to the harness: I think two horses (rather than four) looks adequate but am interested in views.

(http://leadadventureforum.com/gallery/22/2031_10_08_15_2_25_45_4.jpg)

The driver is held by magnets so can be removed. There'll also be a walking variant of him (shown here with Artizan and Hasslefree minis) that uses the top half with legs from his walking companion.

(http://leadadventureforum.com/gallery/22/2031_10_08_15_2_25_45_3.jpg)

The wagon also has a smashed up alternate, which is also still wip:

(http://leadadventureforum.com/gallery/22/2031_10_08_15_2_25_45_2.jpg)

(http://leadadventureforum.com/gallery/22/2031_10_08_15_2_25_45_1.jpg)

And on the off chance, another want that I'm after ...

(http://leadadventureforum.com/gallery/22/2031_10_08_15_2_25_45_0.jpg)

Thanks for looking  :)
Title: Re: Apache! :: UD 10/8 rolling, rolling... Wagon wip
Post by: Malamute on August 10, 2015, 01:16:23 PM
Lovely work on the conversions and the wrecked wagon. ;D

 Two horses is fine I think for the wagon also. :)
Title: Re: Apache! :: UD 10/8 rolling, rolling... Wagon wip
Post by: Constable Bertrand on August 10, 2015, 09:25:49 PM
Your detail is impeccable Steve. The ruined cart looks just right! :-*

I may steal you magnets in bums idea ;)

Cheers
Matt
Title: Re: Apache! :: UD 10/8 rolling, rolling... Wagon wip
Post by: rumacara on August 10, 2015, 10:45:20 PM
Both those wagons are coming up very nice. :-* :-*

Another movie with great ideas is The Comancheros.
Although not with apaches, it gives some ideas of a mixed band of outlaws and indians against rangers or cavalry.

Hondo is another movie that its worth see. And this one has apaches. ;)

Apache Blood, Ambush at Apache Pass, Duel at Diablo.
Title: Re: Apache! :: UD 10/8 rolling, rolling... Wagon wip
Post by: Yggdrasil on August 11, 2015, 05:47:27 AM
A nice choice of miniatures. I like the canvas cover of the waggons, is the greenstuff still on it or is it just the paper/glue base which we can see here?
It looks very interesting!
Title: Re: Apache! :: UD 10/8 rolling, rolling... Wagon wip
Post by: Silent Invader on August 11, 2015, 08:47:26 AM
Thanks folks  :)

Just to confirm - the wagons have yet to receive their greenstuff, so at the mo the canvas covers are just the basic shapes from paper and glue.

Two horses it will be then, which will be based separately - I've cut/snipped away the late medieval trappings.

Thanks for the continued DVD tips: so far I have acquired and watched:

Ulzana's Raid (1972)
Major Dundee (1965)
Chato's Land (1972)

With the following next on the DVD 'wants' list:

McKennas Gold (1969)
Shalako (1968)
Duel At Diablo (1966)

I've seen The Missing (2003) quite a few times. I'll also catch up on the other recommendations.

The projects full title - Apache! Raids & Revenge - gives an idea of what it's about, with setting mostly being 'badlands'.  The mini purchases are well underway, though I need to find myself the 'right' Mexican to add to the band of civilians: I'm tempted by Artizan's 'The Bad' mini for pose and character but would prefer a sombrero (I might just end up doing a conversion). The decision on cavalry is presently torn between head and heart: head says Buffalo Soldiers but heart says Seventh.... as this is a cinematic project influenced by 1960s/70s movies, rather than a historically accurate representation, heart will probably win!

Title: Re: Apache! :: UD 10/8 rolling, rolling... Wagon wip
Post by: rumacara on August 11, 2015, 09:37:28 AM
Well if you decide for the seventh cavalry i have 4 or 5 mounted that i will get rid of.
If interested pm me.
Title: Re: Apache! :: UD 10/8 rolling, rolling... Wagon wip
Post by: Malamute on August 11, 2015, 11:27:15 AM
Duel at Diablo? that takes me back, haven't seen that one for years. James Garner and Sidney Poitier another winning double act :)
Title: Re: Apache! :: UD 10/8 rolling, rolling... Wagon wip
Post by: Mason on August 11, 2015, 11:40:43 AM
....The decision on cavalry is presently torn between head and heart: head says Buffalo Soldiers but heart says Seventh.... as this is a cinematic project influenced by 1960s/70s movies, rather than a historically accurate representation, heart will probably win!

Go with the Hollywood option, mate.

No button counting that way.
You have enough realism to deal with as it is with Tommy and Fritz.
A bit of 'fantasy' will be good for the soul.
 :D

Title: Re: Apache! :: UD 10/8 rolling, rolling... Wagon wip
Post by: Malamute on August 11, 2015, 11:56:39 AM
Go with the Hollywood option, mate.





Yep, yellow neckerchiefs all round, grey felt hats and yellow striped trousers. "Forward column of twos, Yooooooo!" :D
Title: Re: Apache! :: UD 10/8 rolling, rolling... Wagon wip
Post by: Silent Invader on August 11, 2015, 11:57:18 AM
Thanks Rui, I'll bear that in mind  :)

For the Sidney Poiter character, I have a DMH Ely Ferguson on the way  ;)

http://www.greatescapegames.co.uk/deadmanshand/dead-mans-hand-fergus.html (http://www.greatescapegames.co.uk/deadmanshand/dead-mans-hand-fergus.html)

Go with the Hollywood option, mate.

No button counting that way.
You have enough realism to deal with as it is with Tommy and Fritz.
A bit of 'fantasy' will be good for the soul.
 :D



Paul, you are 100% on the mark! The Tommy And Fritz game is somewhat ''serious' and I do see this as a more play-about alternative.

Edit: Nick, it doesn't take you long to get into dress-up mode, does it  lol
Title: Re: Apache! :: UD 10/8 rolling, rolling... Wagon wip
Post by: Malamute on August 11, 2015, 12:50:54 PM


Edit: Nick, it doesn't take you long to get into dress-up mode, does it  lol

 :D

Lets not go there again lol
Title: Re: Apache! :: UD 25/8 more wip
Post by: Silent Invader on August 25, 2015, 12:38:58 PM
A little progress with this 'side project'

The wagon is getting closer, with some polishing to do ..

(http://leadadventureforum.com/gallery/22/2031_25_08_15_2_22_08_2.jpg)

..... the driver is magnetised, as are the horses (at their throat) to lift the draw bar. One thing I have yet to resolve is the reins/traces as they can't be attached to the horses or driver and need to be sufficiently flexible to allow the draw bar about 90 degrees of movement.

The wrecked version is pretty much there now, and will hold 3 minis:

(http://leadadventureforum.com/gallery/22/2031_25_08_15_2_22_07_1.jpg)

I'm also working on the conversions to some of the minis. The big chap in the middle is by DMH, the rest of the men are Artizan and the two ladies are Hasslefree.

(http://leadadventureforum.com/gallery/22/2031_25_08_15_2_21_58_0.jpg)
Title: Re: Apache! :: UD 25/8 more wip
Post by: Malamute on August 25, 2015, 12:41:24 PM
Very impressive Steve ;D
Title: Re: Apache! :: UD 25/8 more wip
Post by: Mason on August 25, 2015, 12:53:56 PM
Nice work, sir!
 :-*










(This is not helping me resist finishing off my own wagons, though...... >:D).
Title: Re: Apache! :: UD 25/8 more wip
Post by: Silent Invader on August 25, 2015, 05:49:51 PM
Thanks chaps.  :)

I think I have solved the reins problem. I've cut them as one piece from 0.25mm plasticard that I've skimmed with GS. One end will be glued to the cross piece at the front of the draw bar, then GSed to look like it comes from the horses' bits. I've put a small magnet into the top edge of the driver's foot brace then a piece of magnetised sheet styrene (from an old cheap L plate) has been glued to the reins. I can't be sure until I assemble it all but if it works the reins should secure for when a driver is seated and yet drop with the draw bar when the horses are removed.

Edit: I could use a similar approach to add the traces (correct word?) that connect the horse to the front of the wagon but I think they'd be much more vulnerable to breakage so will probably just omit them.
Title: Re: Apache! :: UD 25/8 more wip
Post by: Yggdrasil on August 25, 2015, 08:16:45 PM
Very nice conversions!
The green-stuffed canvas looks great  :-*

Thanks for sharing  :)
Title: Re: Apache! :: UD 25/8 more wip
Post by: Constable Bertrand on August 25, 2015, 09:10:06 PM
Great problem solving there Steve! The wagon looks the part, (one of the best I've seen) 8)

Cheers
Matt
Title: Re: Apache! :: UD 25/8 more wip
Post by: rumacara on August 26, 2015, 03:08:36 PM
Before you putt GS on the reins you can heat them to shape and then GS and glue on them.
Therefore you mold the shape first and then by placing the GS and glue you make them more sturdy.
Title: Re: Apache! :: UD 25/8 more wip
Post by: Mason on August 26, 2015, 03:11:02 PM
Thanks chaps.  :)

I think I have solved the reins problem. I've cut them as one piece from 0.25mm plasticard that I've skimmed with GS. One end will be glued to the cross piece at the front of the draw bar, then GSed to look like it comes from the horses' bits. I've put a small magnet into the top edge of the driver's foot brace then a piece of magnetised sheet styrene (from an old cheap L plate) has been glued to the reins. I can't be sure until I assemble it all but if it works the reins should secure for when a driver is seated and yet drop with the draw bar when the horses are removed.

Edit: I could use a similar approach to add the traces (correct word?) that connect the horse to the front of the wagon but I think they'd be much more vulnerable to breakage so will probably just omit them.


And you sometimes wonder why we think you are mad....?
 o_o o_o o_o

Title: Re: Apache! :: UD 26/8 rein resolution
Post by: Silent Invader on August 26, 2015, 04:44:41 PM
Thanks for the comments folks.

Basically, I did as detailed above, though I also pulled the plasticard between two fingers to precurve it (essentially what Rui suggested but using heat/pressure from finger tips).

So did it work? Yep, I think so but with a little more tidying to do.

The drawer bar resting on the ground with horses unhitched and driver dismounted:

(http://leadadventureforum.com/gallery/22/2031_26_08_15_6_27_37_2.jpg)

Wagon rolling:

The metal rod (paper clip) attaches to the magnets in the horses' throats while the driver end of the reins attaches to the magnet in his footrest.

(http://leadadventureforum.com/gallery/22/2031_26_08_15_6_27_37_1.jpg)

Oooooh, magic  :D The wagon driver's party trick - the levitating draw bar.

Actually, just to show that it's pretty 'safe' for the reins when the wagon is moved as the horses just slip out, with the wagon being realigned with them in the new location.

(http://leadadventureforum.com/gallery/22/2031_26_08_15_6_27_37_0.jpg)

I've just finished the pedestrian conversions of 11 figures and I might be able to put them up later, though more work will have to await painting of some WW1 Germans, for which this side project is upping my mojo!  ;)
Title: Re: Apache! :: UD 26/8 rein resolution
Post by: Constable Bertrand on August 27, 2015, 08:46:11 AM
 :o

You clever devil!  8)

Cheers
Matt
Title: Re: Apache! :: UD 27/8 big update of wip completions (19 images)
Post by: Silent Invader on August 27, 2015, 12:26:41 PM
Why thank you!  :D

Have completed this first group of conversions. The project will start with 30 characters (so actually 60 minis, as each has a pedestrian and mounted version) with 12 in this update. In addition to the 12 here, I am told that 6 more Apache, 3 more civilians and 9 Cavalry are incoming pressies (yay!).

First up the wagon. Canvas added to an MDF kit though I have to say I prefer working with resin: perhaps surprisingly the MDF doesn't seem as robust and I snapped various bits while converting it.

(http://leadadventureforum.com/gallery/22/2031_27_08_15_1_37_58_3.jpg)

(http://leadadventureforum.com/gallery/22/2031_27_08_15_1_37_58_2.jpg)

With the horses hitched and driver seated:

(http://leadadventureforum.com/gallery/22/2031_27_08_15_1_37_58_1.jpg)

The driver is from the Northstar Africa range with added shotgun and the horses are conversions from the Perry late medieval wagon train.

Close up of the driver who, along with the reins, is held in place by magnets.

(http://leadadventureforum.com/gallery/22/2031_27_08_15_1_37_58_0.jpg)

The horses unhitched and the driver dismounted:

(http://leadadventureforum.com/gallery/22/2031_27_08_15_1_37_08_4.jpg)

The driver uses the top half of a second copy of the Northstar Africa figure that is married with the legs from the Native whipper who also comes with the pack.

There won't be a horse-mounted version of the wagon driver (he can't ride since he broke his hip!)

(http://leadadventureforum.com/gallery/22/2031_27_08_15_1_37_08_3.jpg)

(http://leadadventureforum.com/gallery/22/2031_27_08_15_1_37_08_2.jpg)

A second version of the wagon, this time converted to a wrecked form (which was probably easier to do with MDF, which was why I went down that route):

(http://leadadventureforum.com/gallery/22/2031_27_08_15_1_37_08_1.jpg)

(http://leadadventureforum.com/gallery/22/2031_27_08_15_1_37_08_0.jpg)

And with three minis inside, benefitting from the all-round hard cover:

(http://leadadventureforum.com/gallery/22/2031_27_08_15_1_36_14_4.jpg)

A paired set of mounted and pedestrian minis converted from the Artizan Pony Express rider.  Changes include rotating the hand and adding a rifle plus some decent saddlebags/rope to the mounted version, and a rifle and bigger pistol for the pedestrian.

(http://leadadventureforum.com/gallery/22/2031_27_08_15_1_36_14_3.jpg)

(http://leadadventureforum.com/gallery/22/2031_27_08_15_1_36_14_2.jpg)

While the Cavalry will come with mounted alternates, the rest of the minis will require conversion of a duplicate mini married with a DMH riderless horse. I've yet to do the mounted versions of the characters that follow though the following image gives an idea of how it will be done.

(http://leadadventureforum.com/gallery/22/2031_27_08_15_1_36_13_1.jpg)

The first three Artizan Apaches. One has an added bow/quiver (the collie dog in Ulzana's Raid should look away now), another has had bare legs covered with loose trousers (Charles Bronson in Chato's Land is a look I want to avoid) and the third required some facial reconstruction.

(http://leadadventureforum.com/gallery/22/2031_27_08_15_1_36_13_0.jpg)

(http://leadadventureforum.com/gallery/22/2031_27_08_15_1_35_08_4.jpg)

Next up are a mixed bag. A Hasslefree converted to the 'Jane Russell' love interest (straw hat from Warlord Games ECW plastic sprue), an Artizan 'old fella' with added carbine, a DMH former slave (huge in comparison but his size suits the intended character), and another Hasslefree converted into an Apache maiden for more love interest.

(http://leadadventureforum.com/gallery/22/2031_27_08_15_1_35_08_3.jpg)

(http://leadadventureforum.com/gallery/22/2031_27_08_15_1_35_08_2.jpg)

The final three in this phase. A Tejano converted from the Native whipper by Northstar Africa, an Artizan renegade (with added rifle) who will be attached to the Cavalry as their native scout, and an Artizan Mexican with added rifle.

(http://leadadventureforum.com/gallery/22/2031_27_08_15_1_35_07_1.jpg)

(http://leadadventureforum.com/gallery/22/2031_27_08_15_1_35_07_0.jpg)

Still a long way to go but this is really my 2016 project so plenty of time yet.
Title: Re: Apache! :: UD 27/8 big update of wip completions (19 images)
Post by: Malamute on August 27, 2015, 01:09:57 PM
Lovely conversions, they all work really well. ;D
Title: Re: Apache! :: UD 27/8 big update of wip completions (19 images)
Post by: Silent Invader on August 27, 2015, 03:18:25 PM
Lovely conversions, they all work really well. ;D

Thanks Nick -  can't deny I'm pleased with how they've come out. I won't be painting them until I have the mounted pairs  :)

Ps: the extra weapons are proving most useful, thanks  ;)
Title: Re: Apache! :: UD 27/8 big update of wip completions (19 images)
Post by: Malamute on August 27, 2015, 03:23:22 PM
The bow and quiver is a great idea, ideal for the Collie as you say ;)

Looking forward to seeing their mounted versions ;D

I had an idea for the spare rifles. How about making some boxes and adding the rifles to the boxes?

 You could play a scenario with unscrupulous "White Eyes" running guns to the Apaches ;D
Title: Re: Apache! :: UD 27/8 big update of wip completions (19 images)
Post by: Silent Invader on August 27, 2015, 04:00:22 PM
The bow and quiver is a great idea, ideal for the Collie as you say ;)

Looking forward to seeing their mounted versions ;D

I had an idea for the spare rifles. How about making some boxes and adding the rifles to the boxes?

 You could play a scenario with unscrupulous "White Eyes" running guns to the Apaches ;D

The mounted equivalent of the Apache with bow will of course get the second bow.

Good idea for crates of guns! There's two scenarios in that one: the unscrupulous white eyes trading with the Apache OR the Apache raiding a supply wagon with a small Cavalry escort (hmm, to whom is the native scout loyal?!). Brilliant Nick (and no I'm not building a fort.



Well.....



I'm not building a fort unless there are examples of fortified outposts or way stations that might have been manned by a handful of men!
Title: Re: Apache! :: UD 27/8 big update of wip completions (19 images)
Post by: Malamute on August 27, 2015, 04:15:49 PM




I'm not building a fort unless there are examples of fortified outposts or way stations that might have been manned by a handful of men!

Hollywood has plenty of those lol

What about a stagecoach depot? ( I was thinking of building one when the Galloping Major first released his Apaches/cavalry,) inspired by the one at the start of Geronimo (Wes Studi version) or the less historically accurate Stagecoach (John Wayne version).

Actually Stagecoach is a film worth investing in (as is Geronimo). Apaches on the war path, The Ringo Kid trying to get the stage from depot to depot across the river and to Lordsburg before the Apaches catch up... ;D

 Looks like you will need to buy a stagecoach though lol
Title: Re: Apache! :: UD 27/8 big update of wip completions (19 images)
Post by: Silent Invader on August 27, 2015, 04:24:52 PM
You are a corrupting influence .... But I like you!  :D
Title: Re: Apache! :: UD 27/8 big update of wip completions (19 images)
Post by: Mason on August 27, 2015, 04:30:07 PM
Lovely putty work, Steve.
 :-*


The trousers on the Tejano are a nice touch.
 8) 8)


Title: Re: Apache! :: UD 27/8 big update of wip completions (19 images)
Post by: rumacara on August 27, 2015, 04:49:56 PM
The reins went very good.
Those apache conversions are the must. Simple but efective.
Very well done. :-* :-*

Some other westerns for some good ideas:

Escape from Fort Bravo
They Wore a Yellow Ribon

Small cavalry outposts are easy to make and they are just a small area on a gaming table. :D
Title: Re: Apache! :: UD 27/8 big update of wip completions (19 images)
Post by: Malamute on August 27, 2015, 04:50:48 PM
You are a corrupting influence .... But I like you!  :D

 lol

Just trying to be helpful ;) :D
Title: Re: Apache! :: UD 27/8 big update of wip completions (19 images)
Post by: Silent Invader on August 27, 2015, 08:45:53 PM
Thanks chaps, you're all very helpful!  :D

Btw I'm studiously avoiding John Wayne movies and epics in general: my starting cast is only 30!  lol


Title: Re: Apache! :: UD 27/8 big update of wip completions (19 images)
Post by: Silent Invader on September 06, 2015, 08:54:42 AM
Last night I discovered another movie with Apaches, which was a bit of a surprise: Cowboys vs Aliens!
Title: Re: Apache! :: UD 27/8 big update of wip completions (19 images)
Post by: rumacara on September 06, 2015, 10:04:32 AM
Well, the movie might be a good sorce of info for apaches and cowboys.
And if you ever go sci-fi you can always do some of those aliens of the movie. :D
Title: Re: Apache! :: UD 27/8 big update of wip completions (19 images)
Post by: Silent Invader on September 06, 2015, 10:50:07 AM
 lol

I did watch most of it last night and in the latter paint there's some good terrain inspiration (much like cork bark).
Title: Re: Apache! :: UD 23/10 - starting on the mounted alternates
Post by: Silent Invader on October 23, 2015, 10:08:55 AM
Bit of a lag while I painted the minis for the WW1 project but am now back in GS mode so will be working on the mounted alternates.

I have 10 mounted alternates to do in the current batch, which basically requires pinning the top half of the mini to a horse, maybe repositioning the arms, and sculpting in some legs. Here's the sort of thing I'm working from:

(http://leadadventureforum.com/gallery/23/2031_23_10_15_11_59_39.jpeg)

As I progress I might need to make a few adjustments to lengths/ heights etc ...

In the meantime I watched Mckenna's Gold and Duel at Diablo. Shalako will be next up. :)
Title: Re: Apache! :: UD 23/10 - starting on the mounted alternates
Post by: Malamute on October 23, 2015, 12:41:03 PM
Excellent, really looking forward to these coming together.
Title: Re: Apache! :: UD 23/10 - starting on the mounted alternates
Post by: Silent Invader on October 23, 2015, 01:13:13 PM
Thanks  :D
Title: Re: Apache! :: UD 23/10 - starting on the mounted alternates
Post by: Mason on October 23, 2015, 04:54:15 PM
Looking good so far.
 8) 8)

This seems like the only option I may have to get mounted versions of my GM Cavalry, so I shall watch this to see where the pitfalls lie.
I hope you dont mind playing guinea pig, mate.
 :D


Title: Re: Apache! :: UD 23/10 - starting on the mounted alternates
Post by: Silent Invader on October 23, 2015, 05:03:34 PM
Haha, not at all!  :D

Tbh the biggest hassle so far has been cutting away the saddlery on the mounts for the Apache. Didn't enjoy that but have 6 more to do idc.
Title: Re: Apache! :: UD 23/10 - starting on the mounted alternates
Post by: rumacara on October 24, 2015, 09:46:58 PM
Very interesting.
Iīm also curious on the result but seing your previous projects i think it wont be a problem to you.
I thought that for use with the Artizan apaches (at least with some) but i never got so far.
Check the horses from Great Escape Games. They have 2 unsadled horses that might be usefull or Front Rank ones.