Lead Adventure Forum
Miniatures Adventure => Adventures in the Far East => Topic started by: Dalcor on August 25, 2015, 06:44:30 PM
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Well, today I have seen this (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jaOvXfd53WE&feature=youtu.be (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jaOvXfd53WE&feature=youtu.be)) wonderfull interview with Mr. Craig Cartmell, co-author of Daisho. I realy realy like what I was hearing about the game. But I am proud onwer of Ronin. And the question is, why to buy Daisho. You know my budget for games are limited and I want to know what exactly is the benefit of Daisho above Ronin.
(I probably buy Daisho either way, but I want to know some arguments why to do that, you know :-) )
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Totally different game. Ronin is a Hollywood 'historical' game while Daisho is a fantasy game with magic and Oni. Both can be played the other way but they are best when done in the intended style.
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They are different games. Ronin is quite historical and the combat is more weighty with you both blind picking attack and defense from your combat pool. Daisho is (for me at least) quicker to pick up and play and lighter weight also its more mystical and magical and less historical. Though it can be played without the mystical elements too. I wouldn't say their is a benefit of one over the other just that they are both different games that are enjoyable for somewhat overlapping but somewhat different reasons.
While they are both in the same genre they are not the same game. In the same way that buying Call of Duty doesnt mean you never need to play another FPS.
One thing I will say about budgets for games being limited is that if you already have Ronin you already have models for Daisho so your only cost to try it out is the book.
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So if I may, Ronin is Akira Kurosawa's Seven Samurai, Daisho is Keanu Reaves 47 Ronin?
We have just discovered Legend of the Five Rings, that will be better with Daisho, or Ronin? I believe with Daisho...
I like those two arguments for purchase
* you have to buy only Rules
* its lite game
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I think its unfair to call Daisho Keanu Reaves 47 Ronin if we are comparing quality. However Daisho is better equipped to handle the musical powers, Yokai, Oni etc found in 47 Ronin.
I played a small game at Salute and it took us about 30 mins to play a small game and while learning the basic rules obviously demo games tend to be deigned to be a little shorter but still unless you are playing a huge or multiplayer game you are unlikley to be playing really long 6 hour games with it. I don't feel like money is wasted owning both Ronin and Daisho. If I want Humans vs Oni or Samurai doing Anime like feats of power I will go for Daisho. If I am aiming to have a little more meat in the individual duels and something a little more grounded and less heroic I will play Ronin.
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I quite liked 47 Ronin, although it does have issues. I thought the Tengu were excellent.
For Legend of the Five Rings, I'd definately head for Daisho.
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I realy realy like what I was hearing about the game. But I am proud onwer of Ronin. And the question is, why to buy Daisho. You know my budget for games are limited and I want to know what exactly is the benefit of Daisho above Ronin.
Hi Dalcor,
If you like the style and feel of Ronin I'd say stick with it. Craig Woodfield has written an excellent game there. Osprey even prevailed upon him to write a few supernatural elements for their website.
As the other gentlemen above have said though it does not cover the entire breadth of Japanese warfare as the Japanese themselves saw it. In the period that both our games cover people really believed in Kami, Oni and Bakemono and this is what we set out to create in Daishō.
Daishō can be played at three levels:
Historical - you only use the rules, equipment and buntai actually available in the period.
Heroic - You add the Ki powers and master-crafted weapons and armour.
Legendary - You add in everything else including legendary beasts, demonic races, magical powers and equipment.
Daishō's core rules are based upon those of In Her Majesty's Name, a steampunk skirmish game that has sold thousands of copies and is proven in thousands of battles. It plays quickly and cleanly and as Carlos was kind enough to point out can be learnt in the course of a single game. At Salute we were teaching 9-year-olds and non-gamers how to play in about ten minutes then just leaving them to get on with it.
The major difference though between Ronin and Daishō though is that the latter is a narrative skirmish game. Like IHMN we have found that players become a lot more involved in creating their own unique buntai and characters. Each scenario quickly becomes part of an epic story that they love to relate to each other.
Also, unlike some authors or companies, we actively encourage players to create their own buntai, figures, powers and equipment utilising the complete points system in the Daishō book. Do you want a foul sorcerer leading a buntai of spirit samurai? Then go for it. Do you want to recreate the seven samurai or thirteen assassins? Then go for it.
Daishō is a toolkit as much as a set of rules, which puts the power in your hands. As it grows we shall continue to create more material and give it away on the Daishō blog (https://daishogame.wordpress.com/). I recommend that you visit the blog, if only to read the latest battle reports.
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Having played both I think the Daisho system is easier to pick up and play flows more smoothly with larger numbers of figures and multiple players. The Daisho rules have a good feel for the flavour of the period and are excellent for historic games as well as more fantasy games.
I think the Ronin combat system works well in one to one game with smaller numbers of figures.
As others have said if you have the figures for Ronin you should try Daisho.
John