Lead Adventure Forum
Miniatures Adventure => Future Wars => Topic started by: Dalcor on September 16, 2015, 05:39:07 PM
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Do anybody of you guys new about horizon wars? I like David Webber and Jack Campbell books so I hope I can use another great Osprey game to represent them...
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I know this is an old post, so forgive me for resurrecting it, but as the author of Horizon Wars, I have some news on the subject.
Horizon Wars is a 6mm hard SF platoon-to-company+ battle game. It'll be released at Salute this year and I'll be doing the rounds of as many conventions as I can manage for the following 12 months.
If you'd like any specific details about the game, please do ask. I'm in full "charm offensive" mode, so am likely to be free with the details and quick to respond.
R.
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Awesome! I've been holding out for this one for a while. Can't wait to see how it pans out.
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I should add: it's already on pre-order at Amazon and Waterstones.
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Looking forward to this one, any details on the mechanics?:)
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It's an integrated turn and uses d12s as the primary randomizer. Elements have two actions per activation but can also use these to interrupt the turn of another element (reactions).
The most innovative mechanic (IMHO) is the shooting system, which combines range, accuracy and volume of fire into a single digit that represents the number of d12s you roll. Your target number is range plus armour plus cover and you then add up groups of d12s to match or beat this figure. To counter this, the opponent makes a Defence roll of a number of d12s, seeking to exactly match dice rolled by the attacker. Any exact matches are removed from the attacker's Firepower dice.
For example, I have Firepower 7 and a target is 10" away, with Armour 4 and light (+1) cover, so I roll 7 dice needing to score 15 or more. I roll 12, 10, 8, 8, 4, 3 and 1. I could form groups of 12+3, 10+4+1 and 8+8 for three hits (and the one with a 12 is a critical hit). But my opponent has Defence 3 and rolls 12, 7 and 3. So I have to remove the 12 and 3 from my results, leaving me with 10, 8, 8, 4 and 1. I recombine the results so that 10+4+1 and 8+8 give me two hits, neither of them critical.
Damage reduces elements' stats and elements can (sometimes) attempt to repair themselves as part of their activations.
The rulebook also includes an extensive system for randomized missions, of which I'm rather proud.
R.
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Sounds interesting. I think scenarios/missions are needed to make a ruleset interesting.
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Hello, sounds interesting!
Does it include rules for vehicles? And could it be played with 15mm figures? I have lots of those but no 6mm...
Cheers,
EvilD
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Sounds like an interesting system. Are the opposing forces build with same amount of points or how does that work?
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Yes, lots of rules for vehicles: aircraft (of all sorts), tanks, light tanks, APCs/IFVs and artillery.
However, the rules are deliberately fairly abstracted into battlefield roles: so a light tank might count as Heavy Cavalry or Light Cavalry depending on what role you want it to fulfil; an IFV might count as Light Cavalry of Mobile Infantry; a squad of bikers might count as Mobile Infantry or Recon; etc. For this reason, I have deliberately not tried to market the game as viable at 15mm.
Is it playable? Yes, of course it is. But you may find the abstractions at 15mm make the game narratively blurry compared to much more granular combat games like Tomorrow's War.
On the plus side, though, you can buy a box of five EM4 Miniature mechs (that feature rather heavily in the book) for less than £3.00 and have a 9-point (a smallish HW army) with change left over for some new d12s.
As for opposing forces...
Assuming you're playing a competitive game in which you want a "balanced" start point, then yes you each build to a force value budget. However, your mission - should you choose to accept it - will affect how much of your selected force actually makes it to the table. This is all balanced out by rules over who decides on how much of the table's terrain and what missions you are trying to achieve.
I've tried to design the game so that players who are new to miniatures wargaming can easily get started with a handful of plastic mechs and some simple "set-piece" battles, whilst players who are longer in the tooth can really get their heads into an array of strategic and tactical challenges.
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Sounds really cool. And I've just remembered the 3mm Germy tanks and infantry from GZG painted and based in the loft...
EvilD
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If no one minds, I'll just leave this here:
(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1570/24061084580_bd08c8ba9c_b.jpg)
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That looks rubbish 8)...NOT!
I'm really looking forward to this now. How many pages does it weigh in at, and hardback according to Amazon?
EvilD
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Yes, hardback. It was originally supposed to be 96 pages, but I think it's a little over that, now.
@joe5mc - Thanks for posting that. I'd not seen the ad before. I'd better go and re-post it to all my social media feeds...
R.
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Looking forward to this one
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Just saw this blurbed on Facebook and it looks interesting (namely because I just built up a hundred mechs...).
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Horizon Wars is a 6mm hard SF platoon-to-company+ battle game.
So set for 6mm or is the range of 2-10mm still viable?
Or just the scales so small it don't really matter?
Just saw this blurbed on Facebook and it looks interesting (namely because I just built up a hundred mechs...).
That is way too many for you. Send some my way, I help you out.
Grimm
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The game works fine between 2mm and 10mm, but for marketing reasons it's easiest to pitch it as 6mm for the sake of argument.
R.
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9 points for a viable starting army? I like the sound of that, I've always found low cost numbers to make for a more interesting game, and maybe a bit easier to balance for the designer too. :D
Apologies if you answered this before, but what is the "intended" table size? Many of the newer Osprey games appear to be going for 3x3 foot, which I rather like. Also what sort of basing convention does this use? one tank a base, and how many infantry?
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Table size is somewhat flexible. Most games are based on 2'x4' chunks: 2'x4', 4'x4' and 4'x6'. But you can easily play it on 3'x3'.
Basing conventions are "whatever you like". I use 2p pieces for most of my bases, but also 25mm round, hex bases and various sizes of square and rectangular base.
R.
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I can't wait to get my hands on this game. I'm a huge fan of 6mm and I just spent the last year painting up several Epic 40K armies.
I've enjoyed some of the recent offerings from Osprey and am hopeful I can get some of my gaming friends behind this one.
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I feel I should also add a general comment about Osprey and how they approach games:
They are publishers, not designers. They have a loose menu of "the sorts of games we publish, but that's largely the limit of the constraint they impose on the designer. When I gave them the draft manuscript for Horizon Wars, the only significant editorial input was "I think you need to reorganize the army building section".
Now, of course, they did a lot of sub-editing, layout and design work, commissioned the art and made the photographs look a bit better. But talking about "Osprey games" as a planned, structured collection is like talking about "Bloomsbury books".
Yes, there is a loose vision, but each book is very much the author's work, just like a novel.
R.
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Congratulations on the impending release! Seems like only yesterday, you were releasing 1gbp mech rulesets and now look at you getting published by Osprey!
Another game I'll probably have to buy. I have tons of 10mm sci-fi stuff, and this could be another way to get them on the table. Judging from what I've read so far, it sounds like my level of abstraction. What kind of command mechanics does it have?
Seems like only yesterday, you were releasing 1gbp mech rulesets and now look at you!
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Sorry for the shameless bump, but I thought people would be interested in the battle report I just posted on my blog:
http://precinctomega.co.uk/wp/?p=196
Just the one turn, as it's quite detailed about the mechanics. I'll try to finish the battle in less detail and with better photos later.
Also, there's now a dedicated FB page for the game:
https://www.facebook.com/groups/1087742501257769/
@eilif - I didn't muck about too much with command mechanics. Your elements get (up to) two actions per activation. There's no explicit morale mechanic as it's built into the effects of damage that degrade elements' ability to move, shoot and defend themselves.
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I've been wanting a new set of 6mm rules for a while so this has my interest.
As there are Mechs and vehicles, is there also infantry? If so, how many figures to base? Does it matter?
I have a Brigade Models tank company that is looking for action!
Do you have a trade stand at Salute?
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Yes, there's infantry. The infantry types are light, heavy, Airborne, Mobile, Special Forces and (at a push) Recon.
Osprey Games, as the publishers, have a stand at Salute. I will be there at some point during the day (timings tbc) to sign copies and chat. I will be around the event all day, though - hopefully with my "demo kit in a bag" that will help me to show people how to play on any convenient space.
While I'm here, here are some sneak peeks of the inside of the book (proof copies arrived this morning!):
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v77/precinctomega/Commissions/MechaWar/WP_20160206_002_zpsdrgahaws.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v77/precinctomega/Commissions/MechaWar/WP_20160206_003_zpswtvwzavo.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v77/precinctomega/Commissions/MechaWar/WP_20160206_004_zpsjd5amdzw.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v77/precinctomega/Commissions/MechaWar/WP_20160206_005_zpsvq7psrmu.jpg)
Regards,
Robey
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As is normal from Osprey, the art looks very nice. I can't wait to get my hands on a copy of these rules.
Thanks for the teaser photos.
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Great art, hard-cover and by the looks of it at good rule set. Nice. Looks like this is going to be a must buy.
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The book may get picked up on simple "must have" even if I never use the game. Looks like a beautiful product.
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This game looks great. Brings back memories of many happy hours playing Epic as a kid. Having not paid attention since those days, what 6mm sci fi ranges are there that might be suitable? Particularly those readily available in the UK?
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Some 6mm sci fi producers include
Vanguard Miniatures
Brigade Games
Dark Realm Miniatures
Onslaught (in the US, but distributed in the UK by Vanguard)
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Microworld
Plasmablast Games
Troublemaker Games
Ironwind Metals
Wargames Emporium
Ground Zero Games
15mm.co.uk
Angel Barracks
Etc.
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Great looking book Robey.
There are also some new 6mm range from Age of Tyrants coming out which would work well for the game too.
http://www.ageoftyrants.com/
I did not realise there was so much variety of miniatures in this scale.Also some great terrain too.Got my first buildings last week from Brigade models which are great.There is also this range from Daemonscape which has some very nice pieces in it.More on the want list.
http://www.daemonscape.com/contents/en-uk/d4.html
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Yes, there's infantry. The infantry types are light, heavy, Airborne, Mobile, Special Forces and (at a push) Recon.
Osprey Games, as the publishers, have a stand at Salute. I will be there at some point during the day (timings tbc) to sign copies and chat. I will be around the event all day, though - hopefully with my "demo kit in a bag" that will help me to show people how to play on any convenient space.
While I'm here, here are some sneak peeks of the inside of the book (proof copies arrived this morning!):
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v77/precinctomega/Commissions/MechaWar/WP_20160206_002_zpsdrgahaws.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v77/precinctomega/Commissions/MechaWar/WP_20160206_003_zpswtvwzavo.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v77/precinctomega/Commissions/MechaWar/WP_20160206_004_zpsjd5amdzw.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v77/precinctomega/Commissions/MechaWar/WP_20160206_005_zpsvq7psrmu.jpg)
Regards,
Robey
Can you leave out mechs without losing something from the game design?
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I dug up my 6mm models from the loft to remind myself what I have (apart from loads of old Epic).
When I was buying Brigade models, I was going for units of 3 tanks, artillery, APCs etc. Is there any platoon structure in Horizon Wars?
It is a shame the book is not released until after Salute as I'm sure I could spend more cash on 6mm models at the show.
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1) The game is being released *at* Salute. But it's not on general release until the week after.
2) Yes! You absolutely can play the game without any mechs. In many ways, it's a more interesting game that way.
R.
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2) Yes! You absolutely can play the game without any mechs. In many ways, it's a more interesting game that way.
Really curious if you can explain that one a bit further?
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Well mechs are the most flexible and potent wagon in the game. This was a deliberate design decision, because there needed to be a reason why world militaries would start fielding giant walking tanks in a hard SF setting. Their advantage isn't overwhelming but it is statistically measurable.
Not taking mechs at all will force you into making harder direction choices and more difficult tactical decisions.
I love mechs. Mechs are cool. But mechs are also, technically speaking, very silly. So they absolutely are not a mandatory option.
R.
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Mechs are silly, but they look great!
(https://coronasan.files.wordpress.com/2016/02/madcat.jpg)
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Mechs are silly, but they look great!
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Or, they're so overpowering it's a simple blood bath? ;->=
So, am I the only one that needs 'It's an integrated turn...' explained?
Doug
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Or, they're so overpowering it's a simple blood bath? ;->=
So, am I the only one that needs 'It's an integrated turn...' explained?
Doug
The exact method may vary, but it means that the game doesn't go along the lines of, I move all my units, then you have a turn moving all yours. Repeat. The turn system is likely to be interleaved in some way, with opportunities for activations moving back and forth between players during the turn.
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Ah, simply said, 'not IGoUGo.' ;)
I'm a simple lad in a backward country...
Doug
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Ah, simply said, 'not IGoUGo.' ;)
I'm a simple lad in a backward country...
Doug
I have always found the term IGoUGo most unhelpful, because as a description it could apply to, "I have a turn then you have a turn" or "I have an activation then you have an activation." So while it has entered the vernacular, I don't think it is very precise.
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Quick bump, because I thought you might like to see the interview I did for Osprey Games:
https://youtu.be/kcY-xDw2vYY (https://youtu.be/kcY-xDw2vYY)
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Interesting video. Looking forward to these rules.
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Yeah - I also enjoyed the concise back story for Horizon Wars. Best of luck with its launch.
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Quick bump, because I thought you might like to see the interview I did for Osprey Games:
https://youtu.be/kcY-xDw2vYY (https://youtu.be/kcY-xDw2vYY)
Good interview. Robes, you should consider doing a gameplay one.
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I enjoyed your interview and my interest is piqued. Looks like I now have an alternative use for my 6mm armour I collected to play OGRE.
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Good interview. Robes, you should consider doing a gameplay one.
Patience, Commander Roj. Patience...
We recorded one. It should be out soon. I'll also be doing some simple videos of my own, although my resources are a bit basic.
R.
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Patience, Commander Roj. Patience...
We recorded one. It should be out soon. I'll also be doing some simple videos of my own, although my resources are a bit basic.
R.
No patience and poor typing! That was meant to be Robey not Robes...but I might have to stick with Robes now.
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Anything is better than Robbie.
R.
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Walkthrough video is up at last:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xs5o7KewpE0 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xs5o7KewpE0)
R.
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I had a buddy pick up a copy for me at AdeptiCon. I flipped through the book and it looks pretty. I can't wait to get a chance to read through it and then play a few games.
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Just bought the book and odd bundle off Osprey - really excited for this one. I've been looking, FOR AGES, for a rules last that would let me play company-ish level Sci Fi with 10 odd bases on the table.
I think the sweet spot of any game is 7-10ish 'pieces' (be that individuals in a skirmish, regiments in a mass battle or whatever) and there hasn't really been a 6mm set that covered that, I guess most people play 6mm to have BIG battles.
Going to order a few new P15 (the 'points' system is P) forces especially for it too.
Haven't played yet though - how well would a non mech force fare against a mech-only force?
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I finally got my book in and I really like it as well. I think the momentum mechanic of the "adventure" scenario generator is very interesting, quite a game changer and interesting its not part of the main game. Or not every game in any case.
As for conventional vs all mech, I think if you build your conventional force smart, slightly optimizing or even min maxing you could probably give the mechs a good run for their money. If you compare the stats of the vehicles to those of same P mech's you will find the mech's are generally 1 pont ahead, with the vehicle having some additional disadvantage. (cumbersome, or vanguard) However conventional troops give you command resources, at basically half a point per unit. Add to that the fact your command element is free if its a conventional type, and the discount you get to some units depending on your HQ choice. However you are restricted to at least one unit of your HQ type every 5 full points, and other units get more expansive (sometimes much more, and note that the compulsory units are never discounted, beyond that first free one) So you are restricted in some ways. In the end I think it should work out.
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It's supposed to work out very slightly in favour of the mechs. It's a useful levelling mechanic for playing against less-experienced players. If you let them take more mechs than you, you're giving them a tactical advantage.
R.
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Hey Robey, you might want to add a short write-up of your game to the rules repository tread here:
http://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=60567.0 (http://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=60567.0)
Personally I've always found more 6mm armies then I can ever buy that I want, but now that I've started looking I'm finding a bit of a lack of mecha. There are a few out there, but not nearly as many as I thought there were.
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I'm working on a squadron of these:
(http://www.criticalmassgames.com/images/mercenaries/MERC16-600.jpg) from a Critical Mass as 15-20ft walkers/power armour, partly because I already had a batch and I think they're really out of proportion in 15mm.
I've written so many P15 army lists, and most of they'll only cost £30. It's great!
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Good sources for mechs are EM4, Paulson Games, Hawk Wargames, Reaper Miniatures, Troublemaker Games, Onslaught Games, Dream Pod 9 and Ironwind Metals. Also, Brigade Models will be releasing 6mm versions of their 15mm mechs later this year. The abortive Robotech Tactics RPG/boardgame thing that ruled Kickstarter before spunking all the money away is also a great source of mechs of various designs and sizes.
In addition, a lot of people are having fun finding minis in other scales that work well as mechs at 6mm and 10mm. For example, some of the Forge World Adeptus Mechanicus robots make tasty mechs, as do some of the Ghar minis from Gate of Antares.
R.
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Can someone speak to the complexity level of the basic rules?
How crunchy/detailed is it compared to Alpha Strike or Mech Attack?
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It might be useful if the errata & example force lists are somewhere where they can be found & downloaded without needing a facebook account (or, a friend with a facebook account).
(Rulebook in post after reading friends copy.)
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They will be available for free download from my website as soon as we've finished re-building it. I think it'll also be available from Osprey. But posting it on the FB group means I have a group of enthusiasts who care tear it apart and note the things I forgot (there were a couple) before it's unleashed on the general public.
Nothing will be exclusive to the FB group, per se. But they will get early sight of and input into stuff. It's just easier.
EDIT - @eilif - there's a recent review/battle report here (http://warfareintheageofcynicsandamateurs.blogspot.co.uk/2016/05/game-42-horizon-wars.html). Also, I did a video demo for Osprey, here (https://youtu.be/xs5o7KewpE0). Should give you an idea of the level of crunch and how it stacks next to other games in the same approximate genre.
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Yes Robey, I would also appreciate to get additional information/errata-files outside of facebook.
And as mentioned earlier on another platform, it's ok for me that you choose an easy way for you to test things etc.
- you do have other things to do also ...
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Current additional material and downloads can all be found here:
http://www.precinctomega.co.uk/downloads/
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Excellent news - thanks. Just finishing off my second force, so hopefully a game this weekend!