Lead Adventure Forum
Miniatures Adventure => Future Wars => Topic started by: The Black Rider on November 13, 2008, 03:21:06 PM
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I played the new version of warhammer 40k the other day. It was the same as the last one and still rubbish.
I have a few models laying around as does a couple of friends of mine and we still want to use them, however with the rubbish and expensive rules that gw are bringing out we would like to find a decent alternative!
Any ideas?
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EM4's Combat Zone, not sure how SciFi you want it, these are more future wars, bu they are well supported with a great website and loads of extras.
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Beat me to it, Malamute! :) CombatZone is really good and encourages you to come up with your own rules.
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Necromunda for skirmish levels. People are rave about Dirtside II. I'm pretty sure they are both free.
I hear alot of good things about future war commander.
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5150?
my favorite, but I like the concept of 'command, not control' and taking some perfect control away from the player.
generic, customizable, usable for larger forces (like 40k) or smaller (like necromunda, especially if you use the Infestation supplement)
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If you get 5150, expect to do alot of work to get the points/campaign system to work. He really could use someone to edit for him.
And I'm sorry, but I can't see how generic when it comes to rules is ever a positive selling point. I mean in sci-fi generic equals, "Use a WWII ruleset with some funky additions." :)
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Mutants and Death Ray Guns from Ganesha Games looks pretty good. It's geared for skirmish level games, but you should be able to expand it relatively easily as its a very simple system.
It's also ridiculously cheap. :)
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I agree with Mahon, 5150 is very good! They are very generic in nature and allow pretty much any Sci-Fi genre to be played, eg Firefly, Hammer's Slammers, Dorsai etc.
I don't use points so that isn't a problem and haven't tried a campaign yet, so I don't know about any problems there.
There are some 40K to 5150 adaptations on the Two Hour Wargames Yahoo Group:
http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/twohourwargames/
which allow you to use your GW figures alongside those of other companies whilst still retaining a pretty good rendition of their weapons and armour etc.
I've used them to allow my son to use his Ultramarines to fight my Copplestone future Wars troopers and it worked very well. Except, of course that he insisted on using all his various tanks etc and quickly kicked my bottom! Bloody 9 year olds :(
Another good set are "Mutants and Death Ray Guns":
http://ganeshagames.blogspot.com/2008/04/mutants-and-death-ray-guns-is-available.html
A bit "Flash Gordon" but still very good rules which will work for a lot of SF.
edit Ah, JB beat me to it with the M&DRG recommendation!
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How about 'No Limits'? Generic rules for adapting any minis you like.
http://www.wargamesunlimited.net/nolimits/index.html
AND they are free... ;D
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How about 'No Limits'? Generic rules for adapting any minis you like.
http://www.wargamesunlimited.net/nolimits/index.html
AND they are free... ;D
Free is always good.......
Actually they look very interesting and they have stats for the Grymn :D
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Beamstrike is another free set. Quite enjoyed the games I've had down the club using those rules.
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I too am a big fan of 5150 for sci fi gaming; i never mess with points, i jst design a scenario, set up the table and let the dance begin.
DAWGIE hates points and firmly believes in TWYSIWYG rule for miniatures; makes life soo much easier that way . . .
DAWGIE
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5150 I'm biased I know 1/2 the aliens I made, but try CR2 which is free to down load and it shows how the whole system works.
Tony
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The problem with most sci-fi rules is that they are often tied into the miniature ranges of the company that produces them, so using another companies minis can be a problem as what exactly are they? For instance Infinity is a great set of rules, but unfortunately its linked into their own range, which means you can't use all those other great minis you've got lying around. Combat Zone is out there, but I'd put that on the level of necromunda style games, and as said can be difficult to work out how to put aliens in. Mutants and Death ray guns, is a nice set, works well for post-apoc zombie games, but not so well for 'high sci-fi', also the warband generation rules are a little odd.
Of those that are generic (because thats what you're going to need in order to use all those random minis you've got) there are a few options:
1. As already mentioned 5150. Either love it or hate it, personally I'm not at all a fan (one statistic - rep for a whole variety of tests - no thanks), but each to their own.
2. Not many people will mention this one as it as the taint of the evil empire over it - Warhammer 40K Rogue Trader. The original rule book, includes a system for finding points values for your own models/creatures. However its a little limited tactically (I go, you go), but adding in overwatch can make up a little for that. For some its also very heroic based, a good character model can slaughter his way through a whole army.
3. No limits - don't say this too loud, but its basically Rogue Trader/2nd edition 40k with a few differences, alternate play adds another level of tactical thinking. Though there is a system for working out your own points it seems to take up over half the rules.
3. Fast and Dirty (FAD), I've just come across these, my verdict is still out, I'm liking them, but yet to actually play them.
4. well not to be modest, but there's a few other free rules out there, including them I'm writing (see my sig) which aren't quite finished yet, but will give the idea. Feel free to write your own - good wargaming tradition.
Hope that helps,
Dijit
(if anyone knows of any others, please let me know too)
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I'll second Rogue Trader. Thats back when the game was fun & colorful! Unfortunately you'll spend 2 arms and a ball trying to get a copy, but thats also part indication of it's success/fun factor.
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I played the new version of warhammer 40k the other day. It was the same as the last one and still rubbish.
I have a few models laying around as does a couple of friends of mine and we still want to use them, however with the rubbish and expensive rules that gw are bringing out we would like to find a decent alternative!
Any ideas?
Why don¨t you just change what you don't like? Chances that you will happen upon a game that is perfect is slim.
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No opinion on good rules other than I find build your own type system are all about the same type of GW opposing gun lines style of play. So, if that's not what you're looking for you can safely ignore them. :)
"For instance Infinity is a great set of rules, but unfortunately its linked into their own range, which means you can't use all those other great minis you've got lying around."
Okay, I'll bite. Why is that? You can't use the old "this counts as X"? That should cover most things. If not, you could just make your own stats for whatever... What's stopping you?
"Unfortunately you'll spend 2 arms and a ball trying to get a copy, but thats also part indication of it's success/fun factor."
Probably not. I find the combination of nostalgia + old version of popular property sells better than quality. It's practically the same game after all, just with random tables. :)
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- Mutant Chronicles Warzone (my first love, excellent GDR/Skirmish rules): http://www.mutantpedia.com/eng/Warzone.html (http://www.mutantpedia.com/eng/Warzone.html)
I like 1st ed. and use some house rules from this site: http://www.timewarpcomics.com/gameSite/warzone/index.htm (http://www.timewarpcomics.com/gameSite/warzone/index.htm)
- Combat Zone (good generic skirmish rules, very cheap): http://www.em4miniatures.com/ (http://www.em4miniatures.com/)
combat zone chronicles (officials free add-on): http://www.combatzonechronicles.net/ (http://www.combatzonechronicles.net/)
- No limits (free skirmish/mass generic rules): http://www.wargamesunlimited.net/ (http://www.wargamesunlimited.net/)
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AMONG other great features of 5150, and CR2.0 or CR3.0, indeed, for all THWG rules is that you can use anything you already own with the rules!
DAWGIE
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"For instance Infinity is a great set of rules, but unfortunately its linked into their own range, which means you can't use all those other great minis you've got lying around."
Okay, I'll bite. Why is that? You can't use the old "this counts as X"? That should cover most things. If not, you could just make your own stats for whatever... What's stopping you?
You can use the good old 'count as', problem is though if I've got some weird looking aliens, that don't seem to fit in to one of their model types, how do I then use them? This is a problem for me as i like 'WYSIWYG', i have a poor short term memory and can get confused as to what was what.
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I don't get this thread. The man is looking for an alternative to 40k (~100+ figures a game)
5110 i snowhere near capable of handling that many minies.. so goes for other suggestions.
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Fast and dirty and dirtside might manage that amount.
Though indeed most other games have quite some problems with that amount and will just take a ridiciulous amount of time.
Combat Zone might manage it, but you would have to make sure that all members of a squad have similar weapons, otherwise it's a disaster ready to happen.
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You can use the good old 'count as', problem is though if I've got some weird looking aliens, that don't seem to fit in to one of their model types, how do I then use them? This is a problem for me as i like 'WYSIWYG', i have a poor short term memory and can get confused as to what was what.
For the memory thing, you'd have the same problem with any "build your own" game. You could write the stats down with the name of the model on an army list. Make it alot easier than referencing the book anyway.
As for aliens, even if they look weird, in the level of abstraction that minis games work on they'd still operate the same way and have the same stats. How different could they be that you can't match up stats and add an odd ability or stat increase here and there?
The point is: I can't think of any reason you couldn't play any game with any figures. Sure I can think of a few reasons why that might not be the best idea. :) However, no game is 'tied' to the figures.
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ACTUALLY, 5150 will work for such large games because it can be played with squads taking the tests instead of individuals.
also look at CR3.0; it is free, and i have used it for large battles with up to 100 figures on a side, in solo play. and i am very much into WYSIWYG when it comes to identifying miniatures armaments, protection, etc.
if you like the way CR3.0 plays with the toys y'all already own, then goto 5150.
and by all means go to the THWG yahoo group; it is a font of info, the company owner is always there, and the other members are chock full of ideas for gaming with THWG rules
DAWGIE
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Hi there! Do You know Future War Commander?
It´s easy to understand rules, multiscale, playable whith any minis you got, allows to play from skirmish to big battles and do not have any own minis range!
I discovered it and bring new live to all those 28mm I haved in boxes just doing nothing! (only remind me the fortune I spended for Evil Empire cause!)
I can also play 6mm with the same rules whith only distance adjustment!!!
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have a look at fallout warfare (http://fallout-rpg.narod.ru/Warfare.html) and see if that will do for you.
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Sorry for jumping into this late...
There are some VERY good suggestions for rules already given. I'd like to add one more to the list.
It was made by some guys who got tired of all the GW stuff and made their own rules.
They're free too....
Their "official" name is Warlord 2085, but most of us refer to it as the Skank Rules.
http://www.skankgame.com/Downloads.html (http://www.skankgame.com/Downloads.html)
They play blindingly fast and I've run games with 5 players with 10-20 miniatures a piece without the game bogging down in the least.
I've used the rules for zombie, post apocalyptic, & pulp games. All with no problem. There are rules for vehicles - motorcycles to tanks, rules for psionics/magic, and more.
I guess you can tell that I'm pretty obviously taken with them.
Please check them out.
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Yeah, I can't say I'm a fan of Two Hour Wargames system, either. I tried to read Nuts! and decided to write my own game instead.
To each his own.
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Have a look at the Ground Zero Games range. The rules are now a free '.pdf' on their website (www.groundzerogames.net), which is nice, and they come with a generic future history (and range of minis) if you want it, or a design system for your own preferred minis if you don't. GZG's attitude is 'use our minis if you want, but don't feel obligated' which is a refreshing change from some manufacturers.
The three sets of rules are Full Thrust (spaceship fleet actions), Dirtside II (6mm scale battles) and Stargrunt II (15-30mm skirmish) and are aimed more at the 'hard SF' end of the spectrum. Rules for aliens are limited to three races in FT, and some home grown stuff on the www for the other two sets. There is plenty of additional material on the web for house rules, alien races and equipment if you need it.
Hope this helps
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Forge of War is a free set that plays exceptionally well. It can easily handle very large games. Stats have been created for Star wars, 40k, Warzone and more.
There is a Yahoo group and a website where you can find everything.
website:
http://thegamesshed.wordpress.com/2008/09/17/forge-of-war/#comment-43 (http://thegamesshed.wordpress.com/2008/09/17/forge-of-war/#comment-43)
Yahoo group:
http://uk.groups.yahoo.com/group/forgeofwar/ (http://uk.groups.yahoo.com/group/forgeofwar/)
Thanks,
John