Lead Adventure Forum
Miniatures Adventure => Age of the Big Battalions => Topic started by: Yankeepedlar01 on October 09, 2015, 11:02:34 PM
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There seem to be a dearth of real wargamers on the site now a days judging from the little feedback on some posts. Perhaps the hobby is changing with the rise of the Bijou game where 30 figures constitutes an army? Who knows?
Anyway, for any interested soul who wonders this way inadvertently, the second half of our ACW game is up on my Blog right now ~
http://talesfromghq.blogspot.co.uk/2015/10/a-bloody-affair-at-whites-farmstead.html
A view of the Union centre late in the game ~
(http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh135/Yankeepedlar01/ACW/85AA3667-BCAF-4F80-A391-823FE0177F82.jpg)
Pop over if you are inclined that way sometime and see what we managed.
David
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David, I am a confirmed 28mm wargamer but the price of metal these days make it impossible to afford large armies if one has limited means, this is why I have gone over to Bloody Big Battles rule system where a stand of figs csn be either 500-1000 men
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I am not one of those gamers. Love the look of the Battle .love the Dixon figures ,I have some incorporated in my army,I like mixing manufactors to keep it motley.I do this hobby for the Show and the game,yes Shipka I understand the cost,but you can find deals at shows,to keep costs down,E-Bay and so forth. I think in our Group in Omaha,we must have about 80,000 painted and 30,000 unpainted give or take ,most 28mm,also though 45 years of the hobby. Keep up the goodwork.
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A splendid looking game, great to see such a spectacle other than at a show. I do agree such armies are becoming a rarity, it appears the "cheap" plastic revolution as not helped to revive the big army either. Lack of time, the "ooh shiney" must have some of these and some of these, every figure must be painted to scale modeller standard and the instant gratification culture all play a part no doubt.
I sadly are as guilty as the next man in some cases, but still aspire to getting large forces on the table, I'm sure I'm not alone.
Keep ploughing the furrow old chap, many more do lack of comments withstanding I'm sure.
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Great looking game Dave.
I suppose that's the appeal of the hobby, that you can field armies like this or just a couple of dozen figures, but still enjoy what you're getting out of it.
I'm definitely in your camp however, together with the League of Augsburg we will be having a bash at Waterloo next weekend,& I'm just finishing basing 60 Guard Chasseur a Cheval. Look fantastic, although they've cost a small fortune to put on the table.
Keep doing what you're doing & most of all enjoy it.
Bob
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Well done. I also enjoy your site. Excellent stuff.
I also fail to understand why so many people view a post and then can't be bothered to write a simple comment.
Isn't that the purpose of the LAF?
I understand your frustration.
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That is the game table I like the more. Sadly, good figures are too expensive and painting time is scarce so I´m more devoted to skirmish games. But that game table is wonderful!
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Hi David,
Enjoyed your post.
Agree that wargaming should be about big battles using 28mm figures on a 1:20 scale!
On the other hand I think that there are skirmish games around as well as the entry-level, both money and space wise, which are good too and allow more folk to join in the hobby.
But there's nothing better than a BIG GAME as demonstrated by the Plancenoit GDB game I played in May:
https://onedrive.live.com/?id=43BE0FBDEFBC66A6%21274&cid=43BE0FBDEFBC66A6&group=0&v=photos
Cheers,
Paul
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As with all your posts eye candy of the highest order. Having regular opponents dos shell. As a 28mm man myself we do appreciate you posting pictures and reports but often I do not make time to log in and comment.
Please keep up the great work!
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Hello David :)
To be fair I don't think this forum was ever aimed at, or has ever been a natural home for 'real wargamers' - if by that you mean, as I think you do, people who like massed formation battles in 'traditional' periods like ACW, Napoleonics, Ancients, or WW2.
It's always been aimed at, as the name suggests, adventure games, which tend to be more skirmish orientated and in more fringe periods and genres. So, nice-looking as your games always are, I'm not surprised they don't attract more comment. The audience for that kind of wargaming is very much a minority on this particular forum, and I don't really think that's anything new.
I also fail to understand why so many people view a post and then can't be bothered to write a simple comment.
Isn't that the purpose of the LAF?
I understand your frustration.
Once again, nobody is under any obligation to comment on anyone else's posts. That isn't the purpose of the LAF.
If I post something and I don't get many comments, then my assumption is that what I've posted is insufficiently interesting for people to bother commenting. Not that there's something wrong with people for not commenting. It tells me I am probably aiming at the wrong audience with that particular topic. Different internet forums cater for different wargaming interests.
Personally I find a lack of comment less frustrating than those who contribute throwaway comments on thread after thread, just for the sake of saying something because they feel they have to.
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I think a large game and table look superb, as said before it's cost. I also think you need to keep interest in one period over a long period of time. If I could do this, I'd stick with the Zulu war. The thing is every time new figures come out in other periods, I've got to snap them up.
Anyway your figures and game look great, and it would like to see the ACW take off again.
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David, Phil and Co.'s games are always excellent adverts for the hobby and this is no exception. :)
To be fair I don't think this forum was ever aimed at, or has ever been a natural home for 'real wargamers'
Indeed the clue is in the title 'Lead' (and of course plastic) 'Adventure'. Actual 'real wargaming' (and I'll agree with David on what this is - lots of figures in the 'Grand Manner') content is a relatively new phenomenon as far as this forum's content goes. When I joined it was largely RPG, 'adventure-skirmish-semi-RPG' and to a point 'skirmish gaming'. Within that context 'historicals' wasn't really a large part of that either. Things change and now 'historicals' as a whole does compete with the 'other stuff' - but 'big-battle wargaming' is still a niche interest here.
It's not that it isn't welcome, new boards were created to accommodate these interests after all, it's just that the bulk of members don't play these games, for whatever reason - which is of course an interesting topic that could be opened on 'Discussion'.
I also fail to understand why so many people view a post and then can't be bothered to write a simple comment.
Isn't that the purpose of the LAF?
Personally I find a lack of comment less frustrating than those who contribute throwaway comments on thread after thread, just for the sake of saying something because they feel they have to.
If only there was time to view everything that was interesting and leave a worthwhile comment and read through and comment on everything on my blog list too. Added to which I have to read every post on the boards here I moderate, whether they interest me or not. In David's case (and quite a few others) I see his posts here and as I follow his blog, there too... should I post a comment in both places?
Personally I would take the number of views as being an appreciation of what you've done. As the good Captain says, lots of empty platitudes, throw away comments and the like, can be frustrating as you scroll through them looking for the pictures of what you really want to see. The forum averages 28 new topics per day... have you got time to comment on all of them?
A lot of us out here are 'time poor'. If I'm commenting on the forum, that means that something else has to give elsewhere and my hobby isn't 'forum commenting'.
;)
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It's always been aimed at, as the name suggests, adventure games, which tend to be more skirmish orientated and in more fringe periods and genres. So, nice-looking as your games always are, I'm not surprised they don't attract more comment. The audience for that kind of wargaming is very much a minority on this particular forum, and I don't really think that's anything new.
Once again, nobody is under any obligation to comment on anyone else's posts. That isn't the purpose of the LAF.
I'm sure you are right on both counts Richard, but I will continue to evangelise those poor souls who fiddle with a few figures and think they are warpgaming, not to mention the aberration which is plastic, zombies, gnomes and fairies. ;)
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(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-2f2pWu2Pic4/VhjbLAcJhII/AAAAAAAAVyQ/i2UCaRtKKGU/s517-Ic42/Kriegsspiel1.jpg)
;)
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(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-2f2pWu2Pic4/VhjbLAcJhII/AAAAAAAAVyQ/i2UCaRtKKGU/s517-Ic42/Kriegsspiel1.jpg)
;)
lol
I'm not all that interested in Horse and Musket period stuff right now, I'm afraid. Most of my war games revolve around periods that, although include large numbers of troops, often include them over impossibly vast areas, and thus only portions can be fought at anyone time. ;)
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I love big battle games... tis how I entered the hobby. Remember it to this day. Was in a fair in Alexandria, VA and saw a group of guys playing an AWI game in 25mm on a great table and fell in love.
Personally, I have great admiration for folks who want to take on ACW and Napoleonics in 25mm. Sooo much work goes into those games that people don't appreciate.
When I first started, I joined a group and we were 8 guys dedicated to Big Battles. It sure is a lot easier to do Big Battles when you are in a dedicated group. We did ACW and Napoleonics in 15mm and Ancients in 28mm, so to have plenty of room to maneuver on the tabletop. That was a long time ago.
Having said that I agree with Captain Blood in that this forum's history was never really focused on Big Battles. The fact that it has grown so much and pulled in folks from pretty much every nook and cranny of miniatures gaming is a good thing.
I wish I could comment more on the stuff that folks are doing here, but to be quite honest, with so many things going on, it is rather difficult. A normal visit finds me looking first at "Show new replies to your posts" and then a quick scan of new stuff using "View the most recent posts on the forum." After that I normally run away to another web site as part of my daily routine.
So don't be disheartened. Keep it up. There ARE folks who are interested, but time means I'm lucky to make a single post or so before I'm off to somewhere else.
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"Personally I find a lack of comment less frustrating than those who contribute throwaway comments on thread after thread, just for the sake of saying something because they feel they have to."
Oh dear! Now I don't know whether I should comment, or not?
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Just a couple more thoughts...
When one speaks about "throwaway comments" I must say that I'm quite guilty of that. So yep, I'll post a "nice looking game and nice minis" comment when I see something interesting. But I just don't do that solely to give a person a pat on the back, I do it most times as a bookmark. By making a "throwaway comment" when I return to the forum and I click "Show new replies to your posts" if something is going on on that thread I get an immediate heads up. So, they may seem gratuitous, but actually, because of the sheer volume of stuff posted here, they serve to help me return to a thread that I actually have interest, even though I might not have a lot to say.
As for the topic at hand... one way to generate more interest is to use the "blog thread" system. A long time ago I was painting a couple VSF armies and I ran 2 threads, one dedicated to building the US army and the other to building the Egyptian army. Any time I had new stuff I always posted them on these threads. It is kinda like a continuing story and I am doing the same thing now with my Age of Sigmar stuff. Captain Blood has done the same thing with his medieval marvels and the Prof has done the same with his Roman project. Indeed, lots of folks now use the "blog thread" system because not only is it a continuing story of your adventures with minis, but over time it fills with content and I think people like that a lot.
So perhaps you might consider doing something on that line... Perhaps a blog thread on your battle AARs, for example. Could be a better way to get more response than a single thread which is competing with literally hundreds of different on-going projects here at LAF.
Anyway, good luck and happy gaming.
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Hmmmmm! No Comment... lol
No really... A lovely looking game David... as always... :D
All the best Aly
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I do agree such armies are becoming a rarity, it appears the "cheap" plastic revolution as not helped to revive the big army either.
I was too busy trying to be funny to notice this earlier. I also thought that the advent of 'historicals' in plastic would see the return of big battle games... like many here that was my entry point to 'the hobby' too.
While the bulk of my interests do tend to focus on 20th C 'platoon actions', I have promised myself that when time and tide allow, I will have some 'proper' large medieval armies... although they will be mostly plastic.
;)
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I'm sure you are right on both counts Richard, but I will continue to evangelise those poor souls who fiddle with a few figures and think they are warpgaming, not to mention the aberration which is plastic, zombies, gnomes and fairies. ;)
lol
Well I'm with you on the zombies, gnomes and fairies, David. I assure you no-one detests zombies more than me.
The virtues of plastic, we'll just have to disagree on.
As far as skirmish gaming goes, having spent my formative wargaming years in the 70's / 80's endlessly marching two lines of ranked-up figures towards each other to various turgid WRG ancient and Napoleonic rule-sets, I'm afraid the 'big battle' no longer holds any fascination for me. I find more free-form skirmish format gaming (yes, even involving 150 figures a side) simply more fun, more visually appealing and more rewarding.
Different strokes I suppose :)
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As far as skirmish gaming goes, having spent my formative wargaming years in the 70's / 80's endlessly marching two lines of ranked-up figures towards each other to various turgid WRG ancient and Napoleonic rule-sets, I'm afraid the 'big battle' no longer holds any fascination for me. I find more free-form skirmish format gaming (yes, even involving 150 figures a side) simply more fun, more visually appealing and more rewarding.
Ditto. :)
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To be honest big games like this are beyond my storage let alone budget.I admire the sheer amount of time your willing to dedicate to just set up the table for the first turn! I've only ever set up one game of a similar size (unless you count for work)we took one look at it thought it looked pretty and headed to the pub.
As for the continued popularity of big games its on the rise as this last two months I've done little but rework both old and new civil war figures for a company.
People don't always comment not because what you do isn't worthy of comment ,more there's only so many ways to say it looks good.
I myself have threads were I've a few commentators but plenty of hits(my railway one being the oddest for this)If we're truthful at some point we all end up feeling like Billy no mates when we've gone to all this effort and no ones noticed Its human nature.
I've stated openly before now I'd rather have one question on my thread than pages of platitudes.But I still catch myself thinking (Hello?) if no does ,again it's not vanity it's just a natural response.
The main reason I don't game on this scale is the time,where on earth do you find the time to paint a build such a personal project? I do admire the effort involved especially when I know deep down I'm far to flakey to stick at it.
Personally I head straight to display games which are this well executed and rarely look at skirmish display games as they always feel lazy by comparison (at least until I've found the bar).
Mark.
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Interesting points one and all. :)
I tend to run the project blog (plog) threads myself but they are primarily - and this will sound damn selfish ;) - for my own benefit as they provide a ready reference to which, unsurprisingly, I regularly refer (and in time summarise to my own website). Interest from fellow LAFers is very much a bonus for a variety of reasons ranging from technical to banter. And I do very much enjoy the chit chat that accompanies a build thread - after all, this can be a geographically lonesome hobby - but it's not expected. Something I noticed with this years WW1 project is that a lot of the viewers were guests rather than members (or maybe just weren't signed in and we all have sooooo many devices now, who doesn't sometimes view as a guest?).
As regards big games with thousands of figures, I personally prefer 30-300 minis in individually-based narrative style games, that by their very nature require less calculation. I guess that in my gaming I want less of the cold hard science and more of the warm soft art, as that is what I need to slip down into fuzzy relax mode. :D
PS: zombies are okay but my personal no-no is 'magic'!
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Well I'm with you on the zombies, gnomes and fairies, David. I assure you no-one detests zombies more than me.
The virtues of plastic, we'll just have to disagree on.
Different strokes I suppose :)
Well, three out of four is not bad! As you rightly infer the hobby is a broad church with plenty of room for games of all sizes. My original intent was to see if I could flush out a few fellow travellers and stimulate some discussion. I'm pleased by the response on both counts. I shall continue to post my 'traditionally sized' wargames as well as comment on others' efforts of a different sort.
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These look great.
Love big battles with a lot of figures.
On the other hand, I also love good skirmish games.
Both games, and everything in between, need good terrain, good figures and a decent scenario then they will be enjoyable
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I think the lower relative popularity is perhaps to do with the concept of scale. If you paint up your minis and get terrain together it "feels better" if what you see is what is there. ie the ground scale and miniatures at 1:1 allows a more immersive experience. The compromises and mental gymnastics to say these 20 figures equals an entire division and this house represents that village is too much for me.
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Hello David :)
To be fair I don't think this forum was ever aimed at, or has ever been a natural home for 'real wargamers' - if by that you mean, as I think you do, people who like massed formation battles in 'traditional' periods like ACW, Napoleonics, Ancients, or WW2.
It's always been aimed at, as the name suggests, adventure games, which tend to be more skirmish orientated and in more fringe periods and genres. So, nice-looking as your games always are, I'm not surprised they don't attract more comment. The audience for that kind of wargaming is very much a minority on this particular forum, and I don't really think that's anything new.
My impression also and the reason I've stuck around here for so long. I've always preferred games with a strong storytelling element rather.
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I wanted to add a quick comment on "big battles".
I find it interesting that so many rule books, magazines and collectors feature units of 20, 24, 30 or 36 miniatures to represent a single unit, such as a battalion in a game.
Frankly, while these large units are impressive - they are not only prohibitively expensive but they impose an enormous "footprint" on your playing area. We play Napoleonic or SYW games with 12-15 figures per battalion (even fewer for cavalry squadrons). The result is we still get the same number of figures on the table, but the smaller units allow more units - and provide more space for tactical choices that make the game interesting.
Unless you are playing in an uncommonly special setting with vast area, I've found that visually impressive games with large units squeezed onto a tight table are less rewarding to play. If all you can do is march forward and let dicing decide the day, it's not the best of games. Better to keep the same number of figures, have more units, and allow players to have more choices.
Keeping base sizes "reasonable" to reduce the footprint of units helps as well. Something to consider
- GC
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Hi David,
Great pictures of some great looking games. Having only being a wargamer for less than a year I was fortunate to join a club that is very much into Big battles and has the space available to put on and more importantly store the resources this requires.
Recently we played the afternoon attack at Talavera in 28mm (http://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=82705.msg1014916#msg1014916) and this weekend we are staging Waterloo in 28mm over two and a half days with approx 5,000 minitures planned to be used.
This year has also seen day three of Gettesburg in 15mm and D-Day in, I think, 20mm. So big games are alive and well if you have the space and the nutters to build all the armies, scenery needed :)
As gorillacrab commented base sizing also plays a part, we use Shako II basing for the club Napoleonics giving 18 figure infantry battalions and 9-12 figure cavalry units. This helps to keep the costs down as less figures required per unit and also allows more units to be represented on the table top.
Keep up the good work and postings
Tony.
(pics of Waterloo will be forthcoming no doubt)
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Hi David,
Brandon here. Long time gamer and mostly lurker trying to get out of my shell. ;)
I've been war gaming since the old Avalon Hill boardgames and then got into miniatures. (Actually, it the truth be told I was playing with miniatures long before I played boardgames, but didn't have any "rules" just a vivid imagination and a lot of plastic Airfix figures and marbles to use as artillery.)
I game in 15mm and 25/28mm but I don't really have a group of people to play with so I mostly live vicariously through sites like this and my favorite blogs.
Although I love the big battles, due to limited space and even more limited funds and time to paint, I do more skirmish games than big battles.
I do ACW in 15mm for big battles and 28mm for skirmishes. I also play Colonials, but once again, mostly skirmishes.
I know this is heresy for this topic, but I also do Bolt Action WWII. ;)
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Lovely looking game. I am having a crisis of scales at the moment. I have 10mm / 12mm ACW but would love to do something with 28mm plastics, but I have a very small gaming area (4 x 3 at best at the moment, so would probably only get around 6 units per side in 28mm on such a table).
Is that towelling on the game table ? it is very effective. I have only ever seen it used once. Some blokes at a UK show had made 8" hexes (for a computer regulated ACW game) and they used towelling that had been dry brushed and it looked superb.
As for feedback, I think sometimes you feel compelled to give some, especially if you also have a question (as I do above) and you want to see more.
On of the things that can deter feedback is that a browser will typically sit down and browse across several sites for their wargame fix - but not be logged onto any of them or even be a member - so commenting will not happen. They might also be browsing on a phone or tablet, so significant replies are harder with a virtual keyboard.
I only partly accept that comments do not have to be made, some recognition of a persons work that goes into photographing, making notes and then writing up a blog article is a deserving thing, especially if you have enjoyed it - it is pretty much free, the reader could easily pay £100 a month on magazines (if enough magazines existed :-) ) to get the same sort of variety and volume of quality content that is currently available on blogs.
You have creative people and you have consumers. There is a balance, the consumers should in my humble opinion acknowledge work and effort that they have enjoyed at no cost. I agree that you don't want an auto list of thank-you's like someone is throwing you a sweetie ..... but something every now and then from those that get a substantial gaming fix from an article is surely a reasonable expectation.
I post across several sites and here produces the least number of responses .... as in none! although my blog has 170k hits. I am not complaining, just saying and only raise it now because it is part of the topic of this thread. Perhaps I should take that as constructive feedback - who knows?
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Yes, Normsmith, it's mostly towelling with some green teddy bear fur and odd bits of grass matting perhaps. It's basic green then over sprayed with car paint - British Racing Green and yellow. Phil made it all and will be along I imagine to correct me in a while...
Your observations on comments, or lack of, make interesting reading and give food for thought, so thanks for stopping by.
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David:
That's a terrific looking table and is precisely the reason why I persist in 25/28mm ACW gaming. The range of figures on the market, both lead and plastic, and the continuing innovation in rules makes this a very attractive period, and besides, as you've demonstrated, it just looks so darn cool. I sometimes wonder if there is a hard limit to how many figures I can put on a 4 by 6 table and have a manageable game, besides the related storage issues. But I'm not there yet and I persevere, despite other periods, scales and ranges competing for my time.
I wish I did your blog the justice it deserves. Sometimes it's more than I can do to paint, game, maintain my own little blog and visit other folks' blogs as much as they deserve, but don't lose heart, mate. The hobby needs you.
Blessings to your brushes!
Mike the Mad Padre