Lead Adventure Forum
Miniatures Adventure => The Second World War => Victory Decision => Topic started by: ianB on October 14, 2015, 11:56:37 AM
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Hiya, absolutely love the rules, the opposed initiative is genius.
In the Army lists I'm a little confused over support weapons.
The light and heavy support weapons seem to be the same in each list (with heavy support just having less options). So in some cases the same weapon can be added to a squad as a one man weapon or in a support unit as a 'team' weapon. In a heavy support team it says four gunners. I'd assumed in first look that this would then mean you had four men operating a larger weapon. Is is actually just four men with a weapon each? I was hoping to represent large field gun type weapons as well as man portable ones (maybe with reduction in effectiveness as the crew die).
Also.....what's next for the rules :) they are by far the best I've played. Rival species has covered aliens, predators and bugs so far.
How about a pure zombie army?
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In the Gear Krieg Supplement you can find Zombies (Japanese). Look here: http://www.wargamevault.com/product/109526/Victory-Decision-Gear-Krieg?manufacturers_id=2468
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Fc has zombies, they are a heavy support option, just can't make a full army of them :) need zombie leaders and normal troops maybe.
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Hiya, absolutely love the rules, the opposed initiative is genius.
Thanks, I love to hear that! 8) 8) 8)
In the Army lists I'm a little confused over support weapons.
The light and heavy support weapons seem to be the same in each list (with heavy support just having less options). So in some cases the same weapon can be added to a squad as a one man weapon or in a support unit as a 'team' weapon. In a heavy support team it says four gunners. I'd assumed in first look that this would then mean you had four men operating a larger weapon. Is is actually just four men with a weapon each? I was hoping to represent large field gun type weapons as well as man portable ones (maybe with reduction in effectiveness as the crew die).
Hmm, should be possible.
To what heavy support weapons are you referring?
Also.....what's next for the rules :) they are by far the best I've played. Rival species has covered aliens, predators and bugs so far.
How about a pure zombie army?
That depends on your Z Setting. If you want a pure Z army like "The Walking Dead" just use the Heavy Support choice as a troop choice and skip the HQ slot. It might even work as a solo game!
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Now that's an awesome response time :)
For the heavy weapons I'm a little confused.... Are all of the support weapons the same? E.g. Is the rail gun available as a support gun the same as the one available as a heavy support option? I..e a single man portable weapon, if so, what makes it a heavy support weapon?
If I'm arming a low tech light support unit I pick from a list of 14 support weapons, if I'm arming a heavy support unit I pick from a reduced list which has six choices) all available in the light support weapons table, same stats and points cost.
So.... Is a heavy support unit just a unit with more support weapons in it? I.e 4 gunners with a support weapon each?
Or am I misreading something? :).
My army lists have support and heavy support tables, but the weapons are the same on both
Id like to be able to represent things like tripod/hover mounted support weapons that are bigger and require more crew to operate. a large support weapon that loses effectiveness as it loses crew, maybe something simple like for every crewman missing the weapon requires an extra action before firing? Something like a heavy rpg or mortar would need a crew of two, a tripod rail gun three? So you could make a unit with multiple small support weapons or a couple of big ones?
This is a really minor thing, the rules are great and work just fine with the support weapons as they are written. I've just got some heavier weapons that I can't represent at the moment.
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Now that's an awesome response time :)
I aim to please! :)
For the heavy weapons I'm a little confused.... Are all of the support weapons the same? E.g. Is the rail gun available as a support gun the same as the one available as a heavy support option? I..e a single man portable weapon, if so, what makes it a heavy support weapon?
If I'm arming a low tech light support unit I pick from a list of 14 support weapons, if I'm arming a heavy support unit I pick from a reduced list which has six choices) all available in the light support weapons table, same stats and points cost.
So.... Is a heavy support unit just a unit with more support weapons in it? I.e 4 gunners with a support weapon each?
Or am I misreading something? :).
My army lists have support and heavy support tables, but the weapons are the same on both
OK, let's take a look at the Mid Tech Heavy Weapon Support Team - 80 points
Support Team: Team Leader (unit leader) with SMG, 4 Gunner with Support Weapon.
For the Support Weapon you have 6 to choose. And yes each gunner can pick one Heavy Support weapon.
Quote from P.90: "Any Gunner may choose one Support Weapon for the corresponding points cost (see the Mid Tech Heavy Support Weapons chart)."
And yes that is the main difference to the Infantry Support Weapons, there you can mostly only pick one! The heavy support slot comes from the more specialized role. 4 HMGs after Set Up can roll 4x4= 16D6+1 for each shoot action - ouch!
Id like to be able to represent things like tripod/hover mounted support weapons that are bigger and require more crew to operate. a large support weapon that loses effectiveness as it loses crew, maybe something simple like for every crewman missing the weapon requires an extra action before firing? Something like a heavy rpg or mortar would need a crew of two, a tripod rail gun three? So you could make a unit with multiple small support weapons or a couple of big ones?
This is a really minor thing, the rules are great and work just fine with the support weapons as they are written. I've just got some heavier weapons that I can't represent at the moment.
The 20.4.1. Low Tech Platoon Support Team - 50 points is a good example of what you want.
Also - Please check the 8.36. Weapon Team Ability on P.34. ;) Plus 9.17. Set Up/X on P.39
If you want really big support weapons check P. 124 - 22.6.8. Stationary Weapon Support Platform – 220 points
Just presume that the 4 SP also include crew.
If you want a similar weapon for low or mid tech, just change the High Tech Heavy Vehicle Weapons and High Tech Vehicle Support Weapons chart to it's low or mid tech equivalent.
It is your game, do not feel too restricted by the lists! This is not 40K, if you and your opponent want huge guns in low tech lists, go for it!
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Played zombies vs mid tech last night. Zombies led by a high tech command unit.
Worked really well, can't believe how fast the game plays.
The movement system is great.. Move one model carefully then organise the unit accordingly.
Seems odd at first until you realise that nobody ever measured the movement of their whole units individually in any game I've ever played before!
What's next? Is the robot supplement still coming? I've got all of the gear krieg and rival species stuff. Now hooked :)
Still can't represent heavier field artillery though :)
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Played zombies vs mid tech last night. Zombies led by a high tech command unit.
Worked really well, can't believe how fast the game plays.
The movement system is great.. Move one model carefully then organise the unit accordingly.
Seems odd at first until you realise that nobody ever measured the movement of their whole units individually in any game I've ever played before!
What's next? Is the robot supplement still coming? I've got all of the gear krieg and rival species stuff. Now hooked :)
Thanks, I am very glad about your comments since many of my design ideas seem to work!
;)
Well Robots etc., I have a draft but did not finish it.
Somehow reallife got in the way.
But if there is enough interest I would certainly start again.
Maybe I have to do a poll some day...
Still can't represent heavier field artillery though :)
Classic heavy Artillery were just not in my scope for far future combat.
But - Please tell me again what you have in mind, the weapons should all be there.
All the rest we can work out easily...
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Well Robots etc., I have a draft but did not finish it.
Somehow reallife got in the way.
But if there is enough interest I would certainly start again.
Oh, I think you should. I have a feeling people are going to be left with a bunch of Terminator Genisys minis in a couple of years, complaining about a 'dead' game whose license lapsed. ;) >:D
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Well Robots etc., I have a draft but did not finish it.
Somehow reallife got in the way.
But if there is enough interest I would certainly start again.
Please do it, the audience is still waiting... ;)
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How about some play test rules on here? :)
I need something terminator or necron-ish :)
Artillery was things like field guns which need multiple crew to work properly. I love the setup rule for machine gun type weapons. Something like that but to represent heavier guns needing to be set up by more than one person maybe?
How about deploy/x. The weapon requires x number of actions to be set up, multiple models combine their actions to achieve this. A heavy laser would be say deploy/2 and would come with two crew, so one crewman would take two actions to deploy it whereas two would take one action each. if that makes sense :)
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I will post some design ideas / goals about Robots in a separate thread.
;)
@Artillery - Somehow I don't see multiple manned field guns in a SF environment. Way too slow. Your Deploy/X idea however is great, sounds like a workable houserule.
Why not take a Mid Tech BARS Support infantry team, add one Soldier to have a 4 men 120 pts team and give them one of the BIG guns from the Mid Tech Light and Medium Vehicle Weapon list. Add the Deploy/4 feature.
That should compensate the bonus of getting a big toy!
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Agis, and don't forget the Not-Dune rules (you promised) :D
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Agis, and don't forget the Not-Dune rules (you promised) :D
Nope - ;)
I promised to do it if enough interest is there...
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Zombies (again) :)
I want to represent the slower shambling type zombies... Maybe as the core troops in a zombie army. Thinking something like a lower LD than the military zombies and a 'shamblers' rule to make them less predictable
Shambler... Make a LD test for each move action on a 1 the unit does not move.
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Nope, the Standard Zombie on Page 97 with no Options taken is already the slow type. ;)
Your rule however is very good if you want really sloooow! It makes it also more complicated and can slow down game pace...
Just get an Agreement with your Group!
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What makes the standard zombies slow? Have I missed a rule again? :)
They seem to get three actions and move 4" like other infantry?
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I was unclear, they are as fast as any infantry unit, but they represent the slow version, otherwise they just did not get in to CC.
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Just finished a game, the zombies rolled 6 three times for shaken results so they charged.... Only on the third one that we remembered that movement is move the leader then arrange everyone in command radius. So really gives them about 10" (4" move for the leader then the rest of the unit 6" further forward). Coupled with the hiding rules it made it really hard for the attackers to get them off the objective.. Attackers had to get within 12" to spot them effectively and the only way to shift them was to hope they charged! Very cinematic. It really stops that boring stand back and shoot attrition type game. The speed and abstract movement is taking some getting used to, it's much more fluid than anything we've played before. Loving it.
Finding the fact that models aren't locked in combat between turns a bit of a challenge, so used to it being a feature!
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.... Only on the third one that we remembered that movement is move the leader then arrange everyone in command radius. So really gives them about 10" (4" move for the leader then the rest of the unit 6" further forward). ... Loving it.
Finding the fact that models aren't locked in combat between turns a bit of a challenge, so used to it being a feature!
Sounds as if you made it all right and correct, and even with fun! (Another game design goal achieved, thx!)
@aren't locked in combat - that is also the reason why I think the normal Z is well served with 3x4" move. The opponent can get easily away and shoot again!
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It was strange, we all initially thought not being locked in combat was wrong, then we thought about it and realised we only thought that because it's what every other system does.
After a couple of rounds it all made sense, much faster and represents what a real fight would be. If you are breaking off then you must be losing, so you're likely to be carrying suppression anyway and won't get many shots.
That's when command points really start to come in. We were playing for three objectives in turn three the zombies had been shot to bits. They cordoned the middle objective to keep the enemy 6" away. The win came down to the last action when the enemy caused a blood! Result and the zombies had to move out.
I've played lots of games that have objective based wins, they usually come down to victory points and a toe to toe battle. This wasn't. The fluidity is really taking some getting used to. U go I go games don't work and most command activation systems just mean that you end up with your weakest troops sitting out. The initiative mecahnic is great, keeps all units relevant and forces tactical decisions. :)
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Big thanks Ian, makes me happy, exactly what I had in mind designing the game! :) :) :)
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Heavier armour taking part in tommorows game, interested to see how the hard shells work out :)
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Pretty hard! ;)
Btw - the next couple of weeks I have travel a bit, so replies are not as fast as usual...
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Hope you don't mind if I stick my own questions on the end, here. ;) After making that SF trooper order with Heresy Miniatures, I guess I need to get started.
No shotgun in the mid-tech infantry weapons list. I assume it's the same as the low-tech list?
For mid-tech BARS special forces: "The Team Leader and any Soldier may swap his SMG for a SMG..." Seems a fair trade. :) Was this an accidental extra, or was the second 'SMG' to be the BARS assault rifle, or...?
Speaking of swapping weapons: when you swap out a standard weapon for another, for the listed points cost, but the new weapon costs less, is the second weapon's points cost added, or are points deducted to match the new weapon's cost?
I.e. if switching a BARS from assault rifles to SMGs, are the two points of each SMG added to the squad cost, or are the extra four points of each assault rifle removed from the squad cost?
I assume that if a scoped action is taken as a first action, a scoped rifle's second shot (third action) can't benefit?
A couple of list mashup questions...
I fancy putting some BARS special forces in one or two of those fancy new Star Wars speeders from the Disney Store. :) Not so many antigrav vehicle choices for mid-tech, though. What about putting Hover/8" on a light transport for 10 points?
(Seems a better match for mid-tech than the high-tech light hover attack craft... though I have been considering a whole 'counts as mid-tech special forces' army with basic-armoured high-techs, just to complicate things further. ;D )
I'd like to revive my old Kroot mercs as possible opponents too. Low-tech infantry seems good, with basic rifles and low armour; but there are a few things that'd need bolted on to represent CC abilities and fieldcraft, that low-tech rifle squads don't normally get. It might be easier to use ferocious, infiltrating mid-tech infantry, with an armour reduction like high-tech infantry. What sort of points reduction would you suggest for that? Same as the high-tech squads, for starters, and fine-tune it from there?
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I have no real net conection atm, just some short answers, rest in a week or so.
Shotgun, same -use it if you like.
Smg, 2nd Smg is a typo, ignore it, all the other options are valid.
Scoped, as written the next shoot action benefits.
List mash up, if you and your opponent agreed, mix the lists as you like!