Lead Adventure Forum
Miniatures Adventure => Colonial Adventures => Topic started by: guitarheroandy on November 01, 2015, 08:44:00 PM
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Well, we had a great day at our first ever wargame show in Peterborough today! We played two games of The Men Who Would Be Kings to almost universal acclaim! One chap even said it was the best participation game he'd played at a show in years (thank you, kind sir!) Most players loved the rules and those who came along to just watch seemed to like them too, so I suspect that we may have gained Osprey a few sales !!
The scenario was well balanced, as we had one British victory and one Pathan victory. Basically, the British were part of a punitive expedition sent into the Tandoor Valley to chastise the Jalfrezi clan who had been provoked into rebellion by over-zealous mullahs. 3 companies of infantry (a standard 24pt field force) had burned a village and were withdrawing when 3 rifle-armed and 2 sword-armed Jalfrezi units (again, a standard 24pt force) attacked - typical Pathan tactic - harass the withdrawal!! The British had a second force of artillery, Bengal lancers and Punjabi infantry who could advance to their comrades' aid as soon as they heard firing or as soon as the hills came alive with the enemy and the Jafrezis also had a further 2 units each of rifle-armed and sword-armed warriors to enter the table (random deployment according to a D6 roll). The stage was set for a jolly spiffing scrap!!!
Pics below:
The set up and deployment:
(http://i943.photobucket.com/albums/ad276/guitarheroandy/The%20men%20who%20would%20be%20kings/IMG_0001_2_zpsbrdfh18m.jpg) (http://s943.photobucket.com/user/guitarheroandy/media/The%20men%20who%20would%20be%20kings/IMG_0001_2_zpsbrdfh18m.jpg.html)
(http://i943.photobucket.com/albums/ad276/guitarheroandy/The%20men%20who%20would%20be%20kings/IMG_0002_2_zpslfimznsv.jpg) (http://s943.photobucket.com/user/guitarheroandy/media/The%20men%20who%20would%20be%20kings/IMG_0002_2_zpslfimznsv.jpg.html)
The Relief Force leaves the camp...
(http://i943.photobucket.com/albums/ad276/guitarheroandy/The%20men%20who%20would%20be%20kings/IMG_0003_zpsv9maf1va.jpg) (http://s943.photobucket.com/user/guitarheroandy/media/The%20men%20who%20would%20be%20kings/IMG_0003_zpsv9maf1va.jpg.html)
The raiding force starts the long withdrawal...
(http://i943.photobucket.com/albums/ad276/guitarheroandy/The%20men%20who%20would%20be%20kings/IMG_0005_2_zpsi6urenea.jpg) (http://s943.photobucket.com/user/guitarheroandy/media/The%20men%20who%20would%20be%20kings/IMG_0005_2_zpsi6urenea.jpg.html)
Pathans skulking
(http://i943.photobucket.com/albums/ad276/guitarheroandy/The%20men%20who%20would%20be%20kings/IMG_0006_2_zpsw1xgv0mm.jpg) (http://s943.photobucket.com/user/guitarheroandy/media/The%20men%20who%20would%20be%20kings/IMG_0006_2_zpsw1xgv0mm.jpg.html)
(http://i943.photobucket.com/albums/ad276/guitarheroandy/The%20men%20who%20would%20be%20kings/IMG_0008_2_zpsjjaluovu.jpg) (http://s943.photobucket.com/user/guitarheroandy/media/The%20men%20who%20would%20be%20kings/IMG_0008_2_zpsjjaluovu.jpg.html)
(http://i943.photobucket.com/albums/ad276/guitarheroandy/The%20men%20who%20would%20be%20kings/IMG_0011_zps6q6ryhpb.jpg) (http://s943.photobucket.com/user/guitarheroandy/media/The%20men%20who%20would%20be%20kings/IMG_0011_zps6q6ryhpb.jpg.html)
The Gurkhas screen the withdrawal
(http://i943.photobucket.com/albums/ad276/guitarheroandy/The%20men%20who%20would%20be%20kings/IMG_0009_zpsf3hllysi.jpg) (http://s943.photobucket.com/user/guitarheroandy/media/The%20men%20who%20would%20be%20kings/IMG_0009_zpsf3hllysi.jpg.html)
The village burns
(http://i943.photobucket.com/albums/ad276/guitarheroandy/The%20men%20who%20would%20be%20kings/IMG_0010_zpslnwhdiab.jpg) (http://s943.photobucket.com/user/guitarheroandy/media/The%20men%20who%20would%20be%20kings/IMG_0010_zpslnwhdiab.jpg.html)
Midway through game 1 - the British have formed a firing line that poured death into the Jalfrezi ranks
(http://i943.photobucket.com/albums/ad276/guitarheroandy/The%20men%20who%20would%20be%20kings/IMG_0012_zpsvwdkuo42.jpg) (http://s943.photobucket.com/user/guitarheroandy/media/The%20men%20who%20would%20be%20kings/IMG_0012_zpsvwdkuo42.jpg.html)
(http://i943.photobucket.com/albums/ad276/guitarheroandy/The%20men%20who%20would%20be%20kings/IMG_0013_zpses60aur9.jpg) (http://s943.photobucket.com/user/guitarheroandy/media/The%20men%20who%20would%20be%20kings/IMG_0013_zpses60aur9.jpg.html)
The lancers midway through their devastating surge through the Jalfrezi attack
(http://i943.photobucket.com/albums/ad276/guitarheroandy/The%20men%20who%20would%20be%20kings/IMG_0014_zps8n5fdjp1.jpg) (http://s943.photobucket.com/user/guitarheroandy/media/The%20men%20who%20would%20be%20kings/IMG_0014_zps8n5fdjp1.jpg.html)
Game 2 under way...the British are advancing/withdrawing confidently
(http://i943.photobucket.com/albums/ad276/guitarheroandy/The%20men%20who%20would%20be%20kings/IMG_0016_zpshzwpek7z.jpg) (http://s943.photobucket.com/user/guitarheroandy/media/The%20men%20who%20would%20be%20kings/IMG_0016_zpshzwpek7z.jpg.html)
The lancers advance
(http://i943.photobucket.com/albums/ad276/guitarheroandy/The%20men%20who%20would%20be%20kings/IMG_0017_zpslnuc67nf.jpg) (http://s943.photobucket.com/user/guitarheroandy/media/The%20men%20who%20would%20be%20kings/IMG_0017_zpslnuc67nf.jpg.html)
Jalfrezis mass on the right, threatening the Punjabis
(http://i943.photobucket.com/albums/ad276/guitarheroandy/The%20men%20who%20would%20be%20kings/IMG_0018_zpsv3idnojq.jpg) (http://s943.photobucket.com/user/guitarheroandy/media/The%20men%20who%20would%20be%20kings/IMG_0018_zpsv3idnojq.jpg.html)
They seem rather outnumbered!!
(http://i943.photobucket.com/albums/ad276/guitarheroandy/The%20men%20who%20would%20be%20kings/IMG_0020_zpsai7qaqy5.jpg) (http://s943.photobucket.com/user/guitarheroandy/media/The%20men%20who%20would%20be%20kings/IMG_0020_zpsai7qaqy5.jpg.html)
The Jafrezis tighten the noose...
(http://i943.photobucket.com/albums/ad276/guitarheroandy/The%20men%20who%20would%20be%20kings/IMG_0021_zpsg9t28kpq.jpg) (http://s943.photobucket.com/user/guitarheroandy/media/The%20men%20who%20would%20be%20kings/IMG_0021_zpsg9t28kpq.jpg.html)
It's not looking good...
(http://i943.photobucket.com/albums/ad276/guitarheroandy/The%20men%20who%20would%20be%20kings/IMG_0023_zpstzvtxfxs.jpg) (http://s943.photobucket.com/user/guitarheroandy/media/The%20men%20who%20would%20be%20kings/IMG_0023_zpstzvtxfxs.jpg.html)
The Ghazis catch the lancers on the hop and charge them...this didn't go well for the horsemen!!!
(http://i943.photobucket.com/albums/ad276/guitarheroandy/The%20men%20who%20would%20be%20kings/IMG_0025_zpsmo1iwnke.jpg) (http://s943.photobucket.com/user/guitarheroandy/media/The%20men%20who%20would%20be%20kings/IMG_0025_zpsmo1iwnke.jpg.html)
The Punjabis taste Ghazi steel! This didn't end well either and with that came the British defeat in game 2!
(http://i943.photobucket.com/albums/ad276/guitarheroandy/The%20men%20who%20would%20be%20kings/IMG_0026_zpsoixgsjrm.jpg) (http://s943.photobucket.com/user/guitarheroandy/media/The%20men%20who%20would%20be%20kings/IMG_0026_zpsoixgsjrm.jpg.html)
Thanks to all who played today and to Andy MacTaggart for helping to both prepare for it and umpire it today. We hope to bring it to a couple of other shows in 2016, so watch this space for news in the new year!!
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I was lucky enough to watch some of the action, and can assure everyone that it looked as lovely in the flesh as in the pics! :D
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Nice to see all the troops carrying around their own camouflage in that dry climate. Ain't getting figure bases right for varying terrain a bitch!? Gorgeous game. And not bad figures, neither.
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So, are the rules similar to Lion Rampant, or are the mechanics different?
I gather as much as the force sizes are similar.
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So, are the rules similar to Lion Rampant, or are the mechanics different?
I gather as much as the force sizes are similar.
Yes, very similar. Most of the parts that people don't like about Lion Rampant aren't in these rules (i.e. if you fail a unit activation in these rules your turn doesn't end; no mandatory 3" gap between friendly units) and obviously some mechanisms are tweaked to allow for a 500+ year difference in time period. If you like Lion Rampant it's a safe bet you'll really enjoy these rules.
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I schlepped acros to Peterborough for the show and thought this was a particularly interesting game.
A nicely displayed table and fantastic figures. Not a period I am interested in but I do like LR. :)
I didn't have time to play but I spoke with one of the chaps and he was an enthusiastic advocate of 'Kings'
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Stunning looking game !!!
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Any chance of Force lists/unit sizes?
Looks great.
Want! Want now!
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Brilliant. How could one see such a game and not be inspired?
Perhaps its for the best I wasn't there :D
Looking forward to playing this and dragging my old 15mm colonial figs out of retirement
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Any chance of Force lists/unit sizes?
Looks great.
Want! Want now!
Sure!
British raiders (24pt standard field force):
1 x 12 Queen's British infantry - upgraded firing stats to represent the Lee Metford rifle
1 x 12 Sikh sepoys - upgraded melee stats
1 x 12 Gurkha sepoys - upgraded to allow them to cross difficult ground with no penalty
British relief column:
1 x 12 Punjabi sepoys - no upgrades
1 x 6 Bengal lancers - lancer upgrade (fight with more dice when they charge)
1 x mountain gun with 5 crew (well-drilled - use more dice when shooting!)
Jalfrezi Pathan Attackers (24pt standard field force):
1 x 16 Ghazi fanatics - no shooting ability, but enhanced melee stats and gaining 'attack' as a free (i.e. no leadership test required) action
1 x 16 swordsmen - no shooting ability, but enhanced melee stats
1 x 12 marksmen - upgraded to allow them to cross difficult ground with no penalty and to kill British leader on any double (not just double 1)
1 x 12 riflemen - upgraded to allow them to cross difficult ground with no penalty; downgraded shooting stats to represent poor rate of fire
1 x 12 jezzails - upgraded to allow them to cross difficult ground with no penalty; downgraded shooting stats to represent poor rate of fire
Jalfrezi Pathan reinforcements
1 x 16 Ghazi fanatics - no shooting ability, but enhanced melee stats and gaining 'attack' as a free (i.e. no leadership test required) action
1 x 16 swordsmen - no shooting ability, but enhanced melee stats
1 x 12 riflemen - upgraded to allow them to cross difficult ground with no penalty; downgraded shooting stats to represent poor rate of fire
1 x 12 riflemen - upgraded to allow them to cross difficult ground with no penalty; downgraded shooting stats to represent poor rate of fire
We feel the upgrades/downgrades really give a good NW Frontier 'feel' to the forces. When we tackle Sudan, we'll tweak things differently to suit that theatre (we plan to do Egyptians vs Mahdists...)
Thanks very much for the positive comments! We had a blast!! :D
I am already planning an alternative scenario for shows next year involving relieving an attack on a British outpost (purchased at the show from trader selling Unfeasibly miniatures stuff - I bought their French Foreign Legion blockhouse which will make a fabulous fortified British signalling station!!!)
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Yes, very similar. Most of the parts that people don't like about Lion Rampant aren't in these rules (i.e. if you fail a unit activation in these rules your turn doesn't end; no mandatory 3" gap between friendly units) and obviously some mechanisms are tweaked to allow for a 500+ year difference in time period. If you like Lion Rampant it's a safe bet you'll really enjoy these rules.
OK, thanks!
I am just about deciding what rules to construct some Zulu War forces for (and what figure scale I want to use - depends a whole lot on miniature count for a playable force).
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OK, thanks!
I am just about deciding what rules to construct some Zulu War forces for (and what figure scale I want to use - depends a whole lot on miniature count for a playable force).
Off the top of my head, to get 24pt standard field forces, you'd probably need 5 or 6 units of 16 Zulus (depending on whether you choose to add upgrades or not.) British would be 3 or more units of 12 infantry depending on whether you add upgrades and whether you deploy irregular allies such as Natal Native Contingent (the latter obviously cost fewer points)
So 36 - 48 Brits and about twice that number of Zulus. Small unit actions rather than true skirmish.
Hope that helps a bit.
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Thank you!
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Sweet looking game.
Looks to be an interesting set of rules.
May have to check them out.
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As one of the players in the 12.30pm slot, I can honestly say that the guys set new high standards for running a participation game at a UK show. The table was very well presented, excellent toy soldiers and charmingly and informatively umpired. They both did the rules credit in their presentation and kept four experienced gamers happily entertained for nearly three hours, no mean feat. Top job fellas, I shall definitely be investing in a copy when the rules are published next year. Thanks for your hard work and for creating a very positive experience. All in the finest traditions of this forum.
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This looks like a very fun game with nice painted minis and cool terrain. I love this period.
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Do the MWWBK rules still have the mixed weapon upgrade so units of Pathans could be armed with swords and muskets?
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Do the MWWBK rules still have the mixed weapon upgrade so units of Pathans could be armed with swords and muskets?
Tribal warriors in the rules have hand weapon and a short range shooting value. We removed the shooting value from our swordsmen quite deliberately, as the Pathan riflemen are classed as 'irregulars' not 'tribal'. This works better for us and actually does reflect the period very well when you play it on the tabletop. 'Tribal' warriors have such short range shooting they don't reflect the Pathans' long range shooting, whereas 'irregulars' get more options for shooting.
I hope that makes sense! We do make a few tweaks for period colour!!! :D
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As one of the players in the 12.30pm slot, I can honestly say that the guys set new high standards for running a participation game at a UK show. The table was very well presented, excellent toy soldiers and charmingly and informatively umpired. They both did the rules credit in their presentation and kept four experienced gamers happily entertained for nearly three hours, no mean feat. Top job fellas, I shall definitely be investing in a copy when the rules are published next year. Thanks for your hard work and for creating a very positive experience. All in the finest traditions of this forum.
Thank you so much!! That means a lot to both Andy and me!!! :D So glad you enjoyed it.
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Hey Andy (actually, that should read, The Andies), it sounds like you did a great job, and the photos look great. Thanks very much!
:D
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@robh ... If you mean do they 'still' have mixed weapons because of Lion Rampant, you'll find that quite a lot has changed from those rules. Although similar in style, the rules are a little different.
As Andy says, Tribal units usually have limited firepower and expect to charge, and better trained/better shots should be fielded as Irregulars. It's all explained in the rules... Just another, errr, half year or so to wait ;)
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Thanks for the answers. I have (and really like) the Lion Rampant rules but obviously not having seen MWWBK was making a guess that the unit types would be based on LR the same as DR forces are being.
Just seemed odd to see such neatly divided tribal units in the AAR when that is not how they fought.
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Thanks for the answers. I have (and really like) the Lion Rampant rules but obviously not having seen MWWBK was making a guess that the unit types would be based on LR the same as DR forces are being.
Just seemed odd to see such neatly divided tribal units in the AAR when that is not how they fought.
Fair enough, but not every Pathan had a gun, even in 1897. And the riflemen can still attack with their swords. :D
Historically, some groups would snipe while others worked their way into charge positions with their swords, especially in the pre-1890s period. I know that the unit delineation wouldn't be as neat as we have it, but it's a really good way of simulating the warfare at the scale we are working. Having read quite extensively about the period over the past 10 years, it matches my perception of the fighting well enough. The great thing about the rules is that you can tweak bits to suit how you feel warfare of the period worked. Win-win situation as far as I can see. :D
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Bloody marvelous looking stuff Andy!! :-* :-* :-* :-* :-* :-* :-* :-*
I was looking forward to seeing the pics and they do not disappoint! 8)
Darrell.
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Did you handcraft the terrain mats or are they from a company? I really like them.
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Beautiful figs and terrain!
What manufacturer made the buildings used for the village, or were they scratch built? Also, what manufacturers did you use for the British and Indian forces, esecially those Punjabi?
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Did you handcraft the terrain mats or are they from a company? I really like them.
Mats are Deep Cut Studios as sold by Bigredbat (Simon Miller) in his online store. Very expensive, but well worth it - washable, iron-able, fold down to A4 size so easy to store - he does green ones too.
Figures:
Pathans: Old Glory (mostly) and Castaway Arts
Queen's British infantry: Empress (Zulu War range)
Sikhs, Gurkhas, Punjabis: Foundry (The 'Punjabis' are actually Guides infantry models by Foundry)
Artillery: Perry
Lancers: Castaway Arts rider, Dixon horses, perry Officer
Village: Colonial Steamboat Company from EBAY.
Watchtower: Bespoke commission done for me by Oshiro Model Terrain (Jimbibbly on this forum)
Scenery: Table-scape stepped hills, a GW plastic hill, another hill by Last Valley, 2 of the old GW Warhammer hills with added slate rocks and sand. Much aquarium 'rock' plus various other resin rocks, etc, bought via EBAY, much lichen of various autumnal and desert shades...
Glad you all like the display! :D
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Fine game chaps, and great to catch up with both of you. Looking forward to seeing some paint on that fort you bought.
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I'm looking forward to their release...speaking of men who would be kings anyone else spot these two shifty lads on northstars facebook?
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I was lucky enough to play my first game of MWWBK with one of the play testers yesterday and was very impressed., as a long-time 'colonial buff'. The troop classification system is very flexible and the game mechanisms, while simple, are not simplistic and give a great game (sic) albeit in Hollywood style.
Already wondering how these rules will look and play in 15mm with 1 stand of 3-4 figures substituting for a single 28mm: should look impressive with Dervish 'rub of 50-60 figures each.
Only one thing that didn't seem quite right, maybe we were doing something wrong: the Zulu Married units were incredibly resilient: even after suffering 80%+ casualties, the veterans kept passing their Rally tests, unpinning and coming back for more - there are no modifiers for accumulated casualties on a unit that I can see? What's your experience of that, Andy?
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I was lucky enough to play my first game of MWWBK with one of the play testers yesterday and was very impressed., as a long-time 'colonial buff'. The troop classification system is very flexible and the game mechanisms, while simple, are not simplistic and give a great game (sic) albeit in Hollywood style.
Already wondering how these rules will look and play in 15mm with 1 stand of 3-4 figures substituting for a single 28mm: should look impressive with Dervish 'rub of 50-60 figures each.
Only one thing that didn't seem quite right, maybe we were doing something wrong: the Zulu Married units were incredibly resilient: even after suffering 80%+ casualties, the veterans kept passing their Rally tests, unpinning and coming back for more - there are no modifiers for accumulated casualties on a unit that I can see? What's your experience of that, Andy?
Yeah, there is nothing to account for accumulated casualties. One trick we found is that sometimes it's best to keep pouring fire onto pinned units, as multiple pins reduce their chance of rallying (subtract one for each pin marker). Of course, this depends on the situation in the game as you may have multiple targets and may not be able to simply target one. Overall, we haven't found it an issue in our NW Frontier games. If the rules had adopted the Lion Rampant model, accumulated casualties would count - once a unit becomes 'battered' in Lion Rampant, it's hard to rally it. You could use that mechanism with TMWWBK but I think it would make it so hard to rally, esp for tribal units in games where all-tribal forces play all-regular forces, that the game balance would be affected. Perhaps it's best to view the actual game mechanism as another 'Hollywood-esque' aspect of the game...
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Do you think these would be suitable for Darkest Africa, either regular v native or native v native?
John
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Oh yes, the British certainly had multiple targets! :-)
Which meant in practice that they found it difficult to inflict multiple pins on a single unit. The Zulus were able to overwhelm a couple of companies by first pinning them with short range fire (throwing spears and poor quality firearms) from one unit (which absorbed much of the British firepower as they advanced within range) and then following up with a full-blooded charge by a second full-strength one - which seems a pretty accurate representation of the tactics used during the end-game at Isandlwana.
I like the 'close order' rules, and must try out the optional ammunition supply rules next time around.
I think the rules will work best with time/objective driven victory conditions rather than a straight 'slug it out to the last man' game - but it looks as if there will be multiple scenarios included in the rules.
There are some draft 'Darkest Africa' force lists in the rules, alongside others for French Foreign Legion and U.S. Plains Wars, so plenty of opportunities to add to the lead pile I fear .
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Sounds like you were playing it right to me.
As Andy says, there is a need to keep pinned units pinned, so they can't do anything. It's a fine balance working out which units pose you the most threat. Pinning is the key to the tactics of regular units against larger native forces.
Of course, if a unit has taken 80% casualties and still makes it into melee! it's probably not going to be that powerful by that point! with only 4 or so models.
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That's true, and in practice I wanted to keep those units out of harm's way, to avoid the Pinning tests on other units within 12" when they eventually routed or were swept away by British volley fire.
I'm thinking these rules could do for colonial gaming in the 21st century what TSATF did (in the USA at least) in the past - certainly hope so!
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I'm thinking these rules could do for colonial gaming in the 21st century what TSATF did (in the USA at least) in the past - certainly hope so!
Well, I just got IHMN and the HVF supplement to be able to start playing some games after painting just a small amount of Zulus ad Brits, painting an Impi each of Unblooded and Blooded (both unmarried), and Veteran (married). Then I'll expand on the Zulus to be able to use them as proxies in God of Battles, and so on, and, hopefully, I'll have about enough for at least a 12-point game when this comes out.
Oh, and a 'regiment' is called an Ibutho, whereas Impi refers to any armed body of men, I know, but Impi is the term used for a 'Company' in IHMN.
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IIRC, the correct term for a 'company' would be 'Ivoyo', which would be made up of several 'Ikhanda', each of around 50-60 men.
As you say, the regiment was 'Ibutho' although this could refer to anything from a company-sized unit (especially amongst the more elderly Married regiments) to something akin to a brigade.
There's a reprint available of an excellent contemporary booklet issued to British officers in 1879, and the Farnworth guides available on the Wargames Factory website are very informative:
http://www.naval-military-press.com/zulu-army-and-zulu-headmen.html
http://www.wargamesfactory.com/_literature_53136/Farnworth_Zulu_Painting_Guide
http://www.wargamesfactory.com/_literature_46777/Zulu_Army_Article