Lead Adventure Forum
Miniatures Adventure => The Second World War => Topic started by: Captain Blood on November 20, 2015, 10:02:27 AM
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Am thinking about a small collection of 1/56 scale AFVs and support vehicles... (don't ask!)
How do Perry's own brand 'small vehicle and gun' models, the Blitzkrieg Miniatures line, and the Warlord range compare and inter-mix?
Any thoughts on relative merits?
Recommendations? Watch-outs?
Hints, tips, advice?
Thanks :)
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never mix 2 models of the same vehicle from different ranges is THE RULE ...
About the Warlord, some "old" vehicles ( old ranges bought by warlord over the years ) are a bit small ( seem's to be 1/60 or less ) , some seem's difficult to build ,
but all the new ones seem's correct and the resin moulding seem's to be top quality now .
About the Perry's ... nothing to say ( may be some doubts on the italian CV35 ) .
About the Blitzkrieg ... nice models ...
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I've owned Perry and Warlord. I prefer Perry completely. Warlord are of verging size and quality depending on how old they are. Some suck utterly to put together despite having less than 10 parts. Warlord is also notorious at sending two left tracks when you obviously want one of each. Infantry are horrid - gurning faces, arms like orangutans. Hands like bowling balls. All in all, pretty packaging and fancy website, substandard result. They took all the pretty Hicks sculpts and let Wotzek destroy them with removable heads. Plastics are just as bad.
Perry and Blitzkrieg I have had zero problems with, and if I were doing 28mm again, I would order only from there. Beautiful sculpts with only occasional casting issues; Blitzkrieg are so easy to build they are a dream.
I think I've made my point.
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Thanks both. Received and understood.
Any more thoughts on this welcome :)
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I agree with what has been posted so far.
To add to 1/56 scale manufacturers I've had experience with:
Blitzkrieg - nice range, great models, missing/incorrect detailing, no crew or decals
Warlord - nice range, great models, crew usually included, decals sometimes included
Mad Bob - OK range, many models available nowhere else, good models, printing/casting causes a very rough surface that needs to be lightly sanded/polished, some incorrect details, no crew, some decals included
JTFM - nice range, good models, crew sometimes included
Company B - nice range, TERRIBLE models, lots of casting issues, crew not included
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@grant: It's obviously a matter of taste so I won't argue with you here. But frankly I personally very much like their newer plastic offerings. The proportons might be over exaggerated but I like it as it makes painting so much easier. The old Hicks sculpts were nice and far better than the newer metal ranges but were showing their age. The Perrys on the other hand are definitely not to my liking. The proportions are not what I like on MY figures and the quality of the metal casting is just waaaay sub standard.
Vehicle wise I very much prefer the newer WG resins over the plastic ones but as grant already has pointed out WG are a 'little' special when it comes to packaging.
Blitzkrieg are superb models but unfortunately lack any drivers amd such.
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Richard, you don't mention minis but for what it's worth I have some Perry (Blitzkreig) support vehicles with the Perry minis and they are a delightful match.
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For my North Africa I am using entirely Blitzkrieg and Perry stuff, I can't speak for absolute historical details, but the Blitzkrieg Tanks are lovely models and scale in really we'll with the Perry stuff. The Perry SAS Jeep Section is a fabulous.
I don't mind the lack of crews as the Perrys do reasonably priced crew sets (enough for 4-5 vehicles for £7) Though I always model with the hatches shut anyway.
I have also had experience of, Warlord and Rubicon plastics, for later war stuff. The Warlord and Rubicon plastics scale in well together, I have both of their Shermans and they don't look too bad at all side by side, I like the detailing on the Warlord Models a bit more, but the construction/options are better on Rubicon.
In response to Grant's post I 100% agree regarding the Warlord post hicks metals and early plastic WW2 kits, very terrible, but the last 4-5 Plastic infantry kits have been much better, improving with each release, and the plastic vehicles in association with Italeri are pretty good too. That said I love the perry plastics too and the metals I have had on their WW2 range have been perfectly cast, the smaller size minis are harder to paint, but they are very nice and look great with the vehicles.
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Thanks chaps. Useful feedback all round.
For vehicle decals, I know Warlord do a pretty extensive range? Are they any good? (Anyone else make decals in this scale?)
Thank you.
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My 2c...
I like the fact that Rubicon give you decals (that can add considerably to the cost of some other minis) and are now making stowage packs to fit in.
Just finished the Warlord Protze truck - very nice, though I realise it's a very recent release.
Am also finishing a Perry/Blitzkreig Sdkfz 250 - beautifully made with crew and stowage. Just one issue: the substance they've put on the resin to help easing it out of the mould. I had real difficulties with cleaning the resin and three times had the priming paint peel off. Mike Perry has advised me to use a non-acrylic paint to prime the model. Can anybody else share tips on preparing these models for painting?
EC
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Just one issue: the substance they've put on the resin to help easing it out of the mould. I had real difficulties with cleaning the resin and three times had the priming paint peel off. Mike Perry has advised me to use a non-acrylic paint to prime the model.
I have heard the same about the Blitzkrieg models (read it somewhere on LAF).
I use an enamel car spray primer anyway, so shouldn't be so much of a problem. But I guess wash the resin casting in white spirit first, then hot soapy water? White spirit cleans up almost everything.
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I have heard the same about the Blitzkrieg models (read it somewhere on LAF).
I use an enamel car spray primer anyway, so shouldn't be so much of a problem. But I guess wash the resin casting in white spirit first, then hot soapy water? White spirit cleans up almost everything.
Hi Richard,
You are spot on with the undercoat. Works well on Blitz and Perry. Look forward to seeing some of your models.
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"I use an enamel car spray primer anyway"
I had problems with a Bren carrier; can't remember whose. White spirit wouldn't clean it, dettol wouldn't, soap wouldn't and the halfords black I use as an undercoat would form this brittle skin that just cracked off in large sections from the side panels...
In the end I took a leaf out of the placcy-20mm gamer's guide and primed it using a mix of PVA thinned with black craft paint....
On the original subject, S&S were very good at doing me some casting runs on vehicles that were a pain to find anywhere else. They tend to concentrate on 20mm stuff, but their 28mms are nice models.
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I thought I'd give a shout out to Trenchworx as well. No mold release used on the resin so the the models can be painted straight out of the box. I like to think the quality isn't too shabby either... but then, I'm a bit biased.
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I own some warlord Japanese models. I think they are new ones. They are good done. And some new German tanks. The plastic models are very detailed from warlord. I think they are from ilalerie. I have one old west wind German tank, the worst thing I own. In the future I try to have a look at the perrys.
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never mix 2 models of the same vehicle from different ranges is THE RULE ..
Well, there are exceptions to every rule. I bought the Rubicon T-34/85 when it came out to mix with my existing Warlord Games plastic kits. I had been meaning to do a review/ comparison but never got around to it.
Whilst there are some subtle differences between the models, they are an excellent match size wise and any variation fits within the variation of model/ factory types of the originals. Painted up they are a good match and I was particularly happy with the Rubicon model which is very cleverly designed and an easy build. Detail and accuracy wise they are pretty much on par. I fully intend to get their new M5A1 Stuart kit to go with my WG version.
For my money Rubicon make the best plastic kits, with the WG ones a close second. WG's resin stuff is rather hit and miss IMO. Their Chafee is quite good, their M5A1 an excellent little kit, the Humber Mk IV is OK but their M-8 armoured car is awful. Poor fit, detail wrong and the turret just doesn't sit right.
For resin stuff, I reckon that the best stuff out there is JTFM and Company B. the detail on the JTFM models has to be seen to be believed. No problems with any of them taking primer and paint but then I always wash my resin kits before building them.
Hope that helps.
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I have JTFM, Warlord, Company B and Rubicon (recently acquired).
JTFM is top notch quality, easy to assemble, little to clean (flash and stuff), lots of extra bits and pieces.
Warlord is mediocre quality, sometimes a pain to assemble, lots to clean and no extra bits and pieces. These are the pre-plastic models though.
Company B I have only recently acquired so no comment yet. Seems clean enough and easy enough to assemble. No extra bits.
Rubicon: Basically your 1/56 modelling kit. Looks impressive I must say. Decals are indeed included.
I'm a fan of JTFM.
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My Warlord Protze truck was a replacement for one I ordered from JTFM, along with some other bits and pieces. After nearly three months of waiting it hadn't turned up so I asked JTFM for a refund which was promptly given. It's a shame, as I've heard good things about them, but seen some other customers have had poor experiences with order times. Granted, it's a one man operation but competing against big boys like Warlord and innovators like Rubicon.
EC
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I realise that you're now snowed under by opinions but... like many here, if you want resin, JTFM are unquestionably the best out there, fantastic detail, easy to assemble & not bad prices. Warlord stuff is generally decent - the newer stuff more so. Blitzkreig - again, very good, they tend to have fewer parts but the detail is still good. Company B - some good stuff, but I've had a few casting issues (bubbles mainly). Rubicon - what can I say, A PLASTIC BLITZ & its very good - a godsend known to anyone who's spent hours swearing at any of the resin/metal versions - plastic is undoubtedly a better material for softskin vehicles - the smaller & thinner nature of the parts makes their fit much better, without the aggro that often comes with other materials (speaking as someone who's made several resin/metal Blitz's).
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My Warlord Protze truck was a replacement for one I ordered from JTFM, along with some other bits and pieces. After nearly three months of waiting it hadn't turned up so I asked JTFM for a refund which was promptly given. It's a shame, as I've heard good things about them, but seen some other customers have had poor experiences with order times. Granted, it's a one man operation but competing against big boys like Warlord and innovators like Rubicon.
EC
It is indeed the man's main problem. But be assured that good things come to those who wait. Even if it is more than 3 months. But yeah, I do understand you asked for a refund. Jeff is a magnificent chap in that regard.
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Rubicon models are really well designed, with a lot of options. I´m very proud of my Rubicon´s Shermans (I have three). lol
We can add to the list of the well done 1/56 scaled vehicles the P51D Mustang from Shapeways. I just received one and is very well finished. Well defined panel lines and cockpit And you can fix and unfix the landing gear every time you need flying or landing. The same for the bombs and fuel wing tanks. The stand is really funny, with a big allied star. :D Great new project for this weekend, to paint and get ready to use asap. The pilots for the next week… and no problems with the shipment, very fast.
BF109G is available too, but I don´t know if has the same quality of the 1/56 scaled P51D Mustang.
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Hey guys,
Ok I've heard several issues here with our kits. Can folks be more specific? Which model? When was it ordered? What color resin?
JTFM casts over 60% of our kits, and we have a smattering of five other companies that do the rest, both metal and resin. Kits with any bubbles, missing portions or mold wear are supposed to be binned, but it can also be a sign of a bad master model or improperly aligned molds. I've found that some of our guys that have production issues with older masters actually have no issues with the newer CAD printed models. I've recently binned entire runs of kits that don't past muster with minor flaws. If a model is looking worse for wear, that may mean it needs to go to the front of the line for a complete digital redo.
Since there are only three of us spread across the United States that do everything. Shipping, design, sales, oversee production... We can't inspect everything that comes in or goes out. So along with asking for a new kit of anything that looks damaged or worn, your best course of action is to let us know what's bad and what happened. It's always our policy to send you a new kit or set of parts if something is missing or not correct.
We're redoing all the kits that are popular in CAD and casting more product with JTFM as well as new production partners, but there are a lot of kits in the lineup!
Brent
Company B
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Brent,
I've owned three of your vehicles, and painted many for commission. They have been very well cast, and clean. A bit oily for clean up - mold release - but a good toothbrush scrub and no problem. The only model I've had problems with was a Crossley armoured car. I had to so significant work to fix casting problems, and the flash was very bad.
That's one vehicle in a host of excellent vehicles. One.
The Japanese landing craft were simply superb by the way - they rank among my favourites in painting. I made the fronts working with careful pinning and hinges. They reside with a customer in New Zealand now.
Haven't seen your 3D printed models (yet!) but I can only imagine they will be excellent.
Also, your decals are among the very best in the business. I love using them, they are consistently high quality.
My thoughts and opinion.
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Hey guys,
We're ../.. casting more product with JTFM !
Brent
Company B
Stop it , we are waiting for JTFM releases of stuffs " coming soon " ;)
Or send him 2 apprentices lol
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I've just finished the Rubicon M5A1 Stuart last night. It's a beautiful little model, really well detailed and cleverly designed. The design factor is one of the things that puts Rubicon ahead of the pack. The models fit together well, are logical to construct and are designed to allow you to field a range of options by incorporating alternative and extra parts. The one I made last night allows for three versions including the recce Stuart. Size wise it's an excellent match for the WG version I already have, to the extent that the track skirts from Rubicon version fit the WG version perfectly. Given that it's about the same price as the WG resin version and it allows you such versatility in terms of the build, Rubicon is the clear winner. They are even including decals with their latest kits. Really looking forward to making the M-8 Scott tonight.
Never had ay problems with Company B models and certainly not in terms of casting quality.
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I agree that the Rubicon models are excellent, fuss-free fit, good detail & well considered options - my only (fairly minor) criticism is that the tracks on some of the Germans vehicles lack the link detail that you'd find on the better resin options (and for that matter Warlord/Italeri's plastics).
Regarding casting issues with Company B products - the AEC Dorchester I bought (via Great Escape Games in the UK) did suffer rather badly from bubbles, which required some red sculpt to rectify but I love the model & so dutifully filled them & in fairness you wouldn't know they were there now.
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Ok, the Crossley is JTFM...but it's difficult to cast, so it may work it's way to the same production style as our new BA-10 and FA-1 armored cars.
The Dorchester is local (only 245 miles away!), and drop cast...usually bubbles are minimum, but early versions of the kits may have missed quality control. These guys don't use a pressure champers though, so it's all in how they pour the resin.
I need to pick up some Rubicon models ;-) We have a number of new kits coming out that are pretty much add-ons to any manufacturer, but will also have a full kit version if we make it. As well as the below, I'm combing through our lineup looking for which model we will give the CAD treatment to.
Dozer Blade
Mine Roller
76mm Mid model turret
76mm Late model turret
Panther F turret and Armor
Shurtzen Set
Erstaz Panther
DD Sherman update
Whirbelwind re-release
Ostwind
As for JTFM, I can't promise anything. We have a long list of Joint projects with him as well. The Lowe, Kitchen Series, Churchills, etc. The latest models he cast for us the the Armored Easy Eight Sherman...
-Brent
Company b
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Really interested in an Ausf F turret for Panther kits - have been waiting for JTFM's 'After 45' range with bated breath since its announcement, please tell me you'll have it soon!
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I can say towards scale vs size...there might be some issues as folks buy a certain vehicle branded as 28mm that might be smaller or bigger than 1/56 and that is not right...
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I know with CAD, scale is pretty close to what we all say is 1/56. The Blitzkrieg models are all very, very nice, and as they use CAD, I'm pretty sure the scale is dead on. Ditto with Trenchworx models, and a few others.
Not to say hand made is not as good..as I do over half my own models from scratch. But doing the masters in CAD does cut down on having to calculate scale. Plus you can print them at any size once complete.
Always wanted to know how Blitzkrieg is doing with both 1/48 and 1/56.
Company B originally started out in 1/48, But sales were not that great, and when we had both scales, the 1/56 kits were just more popular. It took a few years to deplete the few 1/48 models we had.
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i agree ... on the CAD and scale :
the difference with 2 models done using CAD is mainly in the detail , not in the scale .
I own Mad Bob Miniatures and Neucraft Models Lorraine 37 and 47mmAPX gun, and there is no scale issue ...
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Having finished the M-8 HMC kit I had a spare M-5A1 turret so for fun I swapped it for the one on the Warlord Stuart. Perfect match once I've add something to the turret base to keep it in place and I much prefer the Rubicon turret.
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Talking about the CAD, take a look to the shapeways web page. A lot of good quality 1/56 models. I have the BF 109 G6 into 1/56 scale. It is perfect. Panel lines are really well done, ;D and the aircraft give me the oportunity to use it like scenography or in air support.
My friends will have air problems from me playing Bolt Action. :D . Now I´m developing a WW2 german airfield. I will use a Kuwelwagen and a 1938 Volkswagen from Company B as ground support cars, 88mm antiaircraft gun from Empress miniatures with german crew (really are Legion Condor but seems to be luftwaffe soldiers), and a 2cm flak 38 too, maybe from Warlord.
I hope the Stuka from Blitzkrieg miniatures will be another good acquisition, if they decide to bring to life.
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Shapeway stuff is on the expensive side ...
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Double check accuracy on all kits from all manufacturers imo. If you can compare pics a reference of the real thing to pictures of the kit then that's probably best.
Blitzkrieg are beautifully produced but often significant details, features and even basic shapes are horribly off. Generally an issue with 'reading' 2d elevations and plans cincorrectly.
Perrys-own (not to be confused with Blitzkrieg)have all been a little rugged and unrefined but, as always, polish up very well. Some are better than others, but I've bought the lot so far (Dingo, 250, CMP trucks, jeeps, kubelwagens, SAS Ford etc.). Several master makers make these for the Perry's, and some are a little more 'hand made' than others. The CV35 is very poor however and, imo, an anomaly.
Warlord resin is generally fine, the plastics (especially the Italeri ones) are pretty ace. Rubicon are excellent too but the first few kits had a couple of accuracy hiccups that can only be expected in a first run.
Quite like some JFTM, but the casting can be pretty ambitious. When they pull it off it works beautifully.
There's a funny little company in Oxfordshire who do some particularly good early war stuff ;-)
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Can I be nosey Richard and ask what project you are thinking of?
I have some corgi die-cast half tracks which are lovely, I have a plastic warlord Hanomag 251 which is nice but I also have some resin models which are horrible
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My Warlord Protze truck was a replacement for one I ordered from JTFM, along with some other bits and pieces. After nearly three months of waiting it hadn't turned up so I asked JTFM for a refund which was promptly given. It's a shame, as I've heard good things about them, but seen some other customers have had poor experiences with order times. Granted, it's a one man operation but competing against big boys like Warlord and innovators like Rubicon.
EC
Strange I haven't issued any refunds for any Krupp Protze trucks could you send me a PM so I can look into this order ?
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I have heard the same about the Blitzkrieg models (read it somewhere on LAF).
I use an enamel car spray primer anyway, so shouldn't be so much of a problem. But I guess wash the resin casting in white spirit first, then hot soapy water? White spirit cleans up almost everything.
Resin, and certain plastic, can keep leaking oils quite a while after setting.
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Can I be nosey Richard and ask what project you are thinking of?
I have some corgi die-cast half tracks which are lovely, I have a plastic warlord Hanomag 251 which is nice but I also have some resin models which are horrible
Thanks Colin.
Foolishly, I have started again on my Perry 8th Army and Afrika Korps. Like you, I find them irritatingly small and fiddly to paint. And yet, paradoxically, absolutely lovely figures full of character.
I love them and I hate them! Gnash!
So I thought perhaps I might get two or three small vehicles for each side, just to keep my interest going... ;)
Really I was only interested in the differences between the Perry and Blitzkrieg stuff. But heck, now I have a wealth of information for when I can retire and start building huge tank armies in 28mm complete with air support*
;)
*This is never going to happen, by the way.
But thanks everyone anyway, for your knowledgeable contributions. And with only a modest amount of product pushing :D
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Perry versus Blitzkrieg. I's as simple as hand done versus CAD.
The CAD is pretty nice, consistent, and nice game models. The Perry stuff always has one or two of those hand done flourishes that make their models very unique. I think it depends on how you want to finish them, and the miniatures you are using.
Ideally, keep multiples of the same model with one manufacturer. Tanks and such...trucks, like the Perry's LRDG ford were all field modified...so having variation in your platoon, either via your own doing or buy looking at other companies should look just fine.
Years ago, we bought the masters from Ian Crouch on his LRDG chevy even though we have our own...and if you put two of them down after painting, you could only tell the different on the wheels. His were hand sculpts, ours was machined. But that's an easy enough swap! We dropped our old one and continued with his. All the metal stowage and crews were compatible... As Perry sculpts their own crews and miniatures, I would imagine their models would be ideally suited to work together.
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Good advice, thank you :)
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Shapeway stuff is on the expensive side ...
Replace expensive with "stupid". And quality is lacking.
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Good advice, thank you :)
Good luck with the project! Perry 8th Army are fantastic.
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So I have a noob question concerning the Warlord models. How does one distinguish between the old models and the new models? Between the Italeri and the other? I bought a 251 the other day and it seemed quite small. It made me sad. :'(
Thanks,
whill4
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Useful info as I too am about to embark on a similar project to Captain Blood and I was wondering exactly the same as he. I asked the same question over on TMP and got no response at all thus far, so finding this thread on here is fantastic. I was already accumulating Perry and Blitzkreig items anyway, I just wanted confirmation on compatability and now I know what to select and from whom. Excellent! :D
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I've done a few more since this strand started, including a Rubicon Pz IV, a Blitzkreig Humber armoured car and now on with a JTFM 'Sherman Mk 1' which I bought via Great Escape Games in the UK.
I agree with Keith on his assessment that when JTFM pull it off, their resin castings are gorgeous. The Sherman currently on my table has things like the headlamp protecting metalwork and towing lugs very nicely picked out.
It's great that Rubicon include decals, and great that JTFM include stowage, certainly on the model I got. If someone included both they'd be very popular because these finishing touches can add several pounds or dollars to the cost of each vehicle,
EC
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Thanks Colin.
Foolishly, I have started again on my Perry 8th Army and Afrika Korps. Like you, I find them irritatingly small and fiddly to paint. And yet, paradoxically, absolutely lovely figures full of character.
I love them and I hate them! Gnash!
So I thought perhaps I might get two or three small vehicles for each side, just to keep my interest going... ;)
You've got drama, that's for sure. lol
If I were you I would simply keep everything Perry. I'm sure they'll carry everything necessary at a pace that suits your output rate. ;)
I am really looking forward to what you come up with,.
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You havent mentioned any specific periods of WW2 or nationalities you're interested in but I'd second the suggestion of looking at Trenchwerx if any of their vehicles interest you....