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Miniatures Adventure => Medieval Adventures => Topic started by: Harry Faversham on January 11, 2016, 08:36:41 PM

Title: Osprey only print copies of Lion Rampant on demand!!!???
Post by: Harry Faversham on January 11, 2016, 08:36:41 PM: The book has to be specially printed for the individual customer... did you know this?

:o
Title: Re: Osprey only print copies of Lion Rampant on demand!!!???
Post by: carlos marighela on January 11, 2016, 08:52:05 PM: Makes sense , the next logical step in vanity publishing. It's a niche within a niche. They probably don't expect to shift many, so why keep stocks? Pretty easy to crank out copies on demand, it's not like they are getting scores of print setters to cut type face. I suspect you will see more and more of this. You'll notice that Osprey now sell a goodly proportion, if not most of their range in multiple formats. The e-book being a popular format.
Title: Re: Osprey only print copies of Lion Rampant on demand!!!???
Post by: Digitarii on January 11, 2016, 08:54:05 PM: Amazon has it in stock in paperback.
Title: Re: Osprey only print copies of Lion Rampant on demand!!!???
Post by: Skyven on January 11, 2016, 09:06:18 PM: It is always best to get an osprey book when it is first published, after that initial print run they tend to go POD (print on demand) and the reproduction quality of pictures, in my opinion, is somewhat lacking.
Title: Re: Osprey only print copies of Lion Rampant on demand!!!???
Post by: Cubs on January 11, 2016, 10:10:02 PM: Yeah, I found that out after chasing up my copy from Books Etc. Presumably they wait until they have a decent number of orders, rather than doing each book individually.
Title: Re: Osprey only print copies of Lion Rampant on demand!!!???
Post by: Harry Faversham on January 11, 2016, 10:28:38 PM: Quote from: Cubs on January 11, 2016, 10:10:02 PM
Yeah, I found that out after chasing up my copy from Books Etc. Presumably they wait until they have a decent number of orders, rather than doing each book individually.

Cubs, they're the clowns I've just been chasing up for giving me the same crap. Reminds me of that line from The Outlaw Josey Wales...

"Don't piss up my back and tell me it's raining!"

>:D

Be warned more cowboys here than in the High Chaparral!

BOOKS etc.
8 Kings Road
Fleet
Hampshire
GU51 3AD
Title: Re: Osprey only print copies of Lion Rampant on demand!!!???
Post by: Captain Blood on January 11, 2016, 10:38:38 PM: It's a trend in low volume 'niche' publishing. I have several plays published, and my publisher used to do print runs of 2,000 - 5,000 paperback copies, and then reprint if a particular title went well. Now they've moved to on demand printing. It's just more cost effective for them to do it that way, than to have several thousand (or even several hundred copies) of a slow moving title sitting in a warehouse gradually being called off over a period of years.
Title: Re: Osprey only print copies of Lion Rampant on demand!!!???
Post by: robh on January 11, 2016, 10:50:20 PM: Not just Lion Rampant, my recent order for IHMN and expansion were also Print on Demand as were the last 2 Osprey MAA series I picked up.
Seems to be their policy after initial print run unless someone orders in bulk.
Title: Re: Osprey only print copies of Lion Rampant on demand!!!???
Post by: Skyven on January 12, 2016, 12:23:57 AM: Sorry you guys have had problems with Books Etc, but it is more likely that they have had problems getting the books from Osprey, who print on many such books on demand (and can be damn slow about it, especially over Christmas). I've been buying books, and especially Ospreys, from Books Etc for several years, and have averaged 45 books of all kinds a year for the last two. In all that time there has only been one book that got lost in the system. This is compared to Amazon, which is supposed to have the books in stock, and have buggered up orders five times.
Title: Re: Osprey only print copies of Lion Rampant on demand!!!???
Post by: Craig on January 12, 2016, 05:03:25 AM: Quote from: robh on January 11, 2016, 10:50:20 PM
Not just Lion Rampant, my recent order for IHMN and expansion were also Print on Demand as were the last 2 Osprey MAA series I picked up.
Seems to be their policy after initial print run unless someone orders in bulk.

Interesting, as according to the twice-yearly statements of sales they give us there should be plenty of hard copies of heroes, Villains & Fiends and Sleeping Dragon, Rising Sun left in stock.
Our policy at The Ministry of Gentlemanly Warfare is to do a print run and once half has sold look at the rate of sales to determine when we shall need another. Print on demand is expensive and cuts into the already small proit margin considerably.
As far as I know Dan's Lion Rampant has been a glorious success so I see no reason why they should go to POD so soon.
Title: Re: Osprey only print copies of Lion Rampant on demand!!!???
Post by: Arlequín on January 12, 2016, 08:25:31 AM: It's a common business model, whether you are printing books or making cars... stock is dead money and print/make to order is how you don't end up with stuff you can't shift.
Title: Re: Osprey only print copies of Lion Rampant on demand!!!???
Post by: Smith on January 12, 2016, 09:39:20 AM: Morning, guys.

These days, ALL of Osprey’s books go to print-on-demand (POD) at some point in their existence, and we’re working on bringing a lot of the older books onto this system as well.

As some of the above posters have noted, this is simply the most viable option for ensuring books remain in print. A title may only sell 10 books a year, so a traditional print run will either not be cost-effective for such a small quantity, or (if we reprinted enough to be cost-effective) would leave us with several years’ (if not decades!) worth of stock, and the warehousing costs that go with it.

That is, of course, an extreme example, but it’s true for all our books to some degree, and striking the balance in terms of when and how many to reprint is a tricky one, and the source of constant frustration for our Sales guys. By and large, if it is viable to print a full, traditional print run, we will – POD is more expensive, and it’s less profitable for Osprey (though it has no effect on author earnings!).

With POD, we can keep our thousands of books in print and avoid the situation we had a few years back where some titles were NEVER being reprinted, because every time a reprint batch came up, they kept being passed over in favour of more in-demand titles. In all honesty, in some cases, it’s a case of a POD book or no book at all!

The specific situation with Lion Rampant which, as Craig says, has been fantastically well received, is a little odd, however – it’s the high demand that accelerated the move to POD, not a drop-off in demand. Quite simply, demand was so high that we decided to POD the book in order to avoid a prolonged period of unavailability while we reprinted.

That is, I hope, an insight into the nature of Osprey’s POD system. I’m happy to answer any further questions if there are any, and if I can!

The one assumption I would like to address is regarding distributors that order POD titles from us. Naturally, it takes longer to print and ship a book than it does to simply send one out from a warehouse, but some vendors do not take this into account when supplying delivery estimates. Furthermore, some wait to receive a number of POD orders before passing them on, and do not place them on a case-by-case basis. If delivery times or delays are a concern, you can always order from a smaller stockist such as North Star or Spirit Games – if they don’t have a book in stock, they’ll tell you right away! Or order from Osprey directly – and if anything goes awry (as happens from time to time – that’s inevitable!), we can be informed and should be able to remedy matters directly.
Title: Re: Osprey only print copies of Lion Rampant on demand!!!???
Post by: Harry Faversham on January 12, 2016, 10:06:13 AM: Don't think it's owt to do with Osprey directly, just the idiots I was dealing with at BOOKS etc. When they told me...

"The book has to be specially printed for the individual customer."

As an excuse for appallingly bad customer service. I parried with the observation that they initially offered me 'Lion Rampant' with 'next day delivery' option! I've got a copy arriving today from another seller, moral of the story is deal with BOOKS etc. at yer peril.

>:D
Title: Re: Osprey only print copies of Lion Rampant on demand!!!???
Post by: Cubs on January 12, 2016, 11:08:04 AM: Quote from: Harry Faversham on January 11, 2016, 10:28:38 PM
Cubs, they're the clowns I've just been chasing up for giving me the same crap.

I'm not unhappy with them. I paid half price for the book and when I chased up the delayed delivery they answered me the next day. I wish they'd stated on the original listing that this was the case, but it was only a 3 week wait so that's fine with me. I always had the option of cancelling the order if I was dissatisfied.

Besides, as I said, I paid half price.
Title: Re: Osprey only print copies of Lion Rampant on demand!!!???
Post by: Harry Faversham on January 13, 2016, 12:20:39 AM: Quote from: Cubs on January 12, 2016, 11:08:04 AM
Besides, as I said, I paid half price.

Poltroon, selling yer soul to the devil... thought it woz us Yorkshireman that had the short arms and deep pockets!?

;D
Title: Re: Osprey only print copies of Lion Rampant on demand!!!???
Post by: katie on January 13, 2016, 08:35:28 AM: " we’re working on bringing a lot of the older books onto this system as well."

That's good to hear!

Some of the older titles are awfully difficult to find. As a suggestion -- could titles be combined into volumes? So instead of having to find all (say) 5 parts of a series, they could be PODded as one book? That might help with the profit margin on them because you'd be selling more pages per binding.
Title: Re: Osprey only print copies of Lion Rampant on demand!!!???
Post by: Nord on January 13, 2016, 08:56:10 AM: Shouldn't this be in the fantasy section?

I have to say that my order with Books Etc (and another 3 copies for mates) went fine. Ordered just before xmas and received it about a week later, so taking into consideration the holiday break I thought that was pretty decent.

Sounds like LR is the new Frostgrave. ;)
Title: Re: Osprey only print copies of Lion Rampant on demand!!!???
Post by: Vermis on January 13, 2016, 12:11:48 PM: Quote from: Nord on January 13, 2016, 08:56:10 AM
Shouldn't this be in the fantasy section?

If it was Dragon Rampant, msybe. ;)

Quote
Sounds like LR is the new Frostgrave. ;)

Can we get a subforum for it? (Or, well, the 'D' one)
Title: Re: Osprey only print copies of Lion Rampant on demand!!!???
Post by: Atheling on January 13, 2016, 12:55:58 PM: Quote from: Vermis on January 13, 2016, 12:11:48 PM
Can we get a subforum for it? (Or, well, the 'D' one)

Seconded!! :D

Darrell.
Title: Re: Osprey only print copies of Lion Rampant on demand!!!???
Post by: Nord on January 13, 2016, 01:31:24 PM: Quote from: Vermis on January 13, 2016, 12:11:48 PM
If it was Dragon Rampant, msybe. ;)

Whoops, got my L and D confused, I'll get me coat. ::)
Title: Re: Osprey only print copies of Lion Rampant on demand!!!???
Post by: Andrew_McGuire on January 27, 2016, 06:34:57 PM: I discovered this phenomenon almost a year ago, when I ordered my copy of Lion Rampant - also from Books Etc - having failed to notice it was POD. It was news to the author when I brought it up on his forum.

More recently, I bought IHMN from another Amazon seller, and received it promptly, but after waiting more than a week - I know, terrible, isn't it? - for Heroes, Villains & Fiends to be posted by another seller, the normally very prompt Wordery, queried why it was still 'preparing for despatch', and received a reply quoting the text I had missed, to the effect that it was POD. In my defence, the text in question could only be seen by clicking on 'read more', which had seemed unnecessary, as it was clearly stated elsewhere in the listing that it was in stock. I asked the seller to explain this contradiction, but received no reply. I cancelled the order.

Oddly enough, I don't experience this sort of delay with Lulu, from whom I received a book today, less than a week from placing my order.
Title: Re: Osprey only print copies of Lion Rampant on demand!!!???
Post by: Harry Faversham on January 27, 2016, 06:44:19 PM: Yep, the same old cobblers they gave me... after they advertised 'next day delivery'!

>:D
Title: Re: Osprey only print copies of Lion Rampant on demand!!!???
Post by: Little Odo on January 27, 2016, 10:00:12 PM: Wordery quoted me 7-14 days (to allow for POD presumably), but I got it within a week. Not sure what this says, but my tuppence.
Title: Re: Osprey only print copies of Lion Rampant on demand!!!???
Post by: Andrew_McGuire on January 28, 2016, 05:11:38 PM: You probably got the one they were half-way through printing for me.
Title: Re: Osprey only print copies of Lion Rampant on demand!!!???
Post by: throwsFireball on February 10, 2016, 09:59:50 PM: I mostly buy new wargaming books from Books Etc who somehow sell them for below the cost at which everyone else buys them. o_o
Title: Re: Osprey only print copies of Lion Rampant on demand!!!???
Post by: Atheling on February 11, 2016, 06:42:22 AM: Quote from: throwsFireball on February 10, 2016, 09:59:50 PM
I mostly buy new wargaming books from Books Etc who somehow sell them for below the cost at which everyone else buys them. o_o

And the only disadvantage is that you have to wait. It's great if you're not in a hurry :)

Darrell.