Lead Adventure Forum
Miniatures Adventure => Colonial Adventures => Topic started by: Saucy Jack on February 08, 2016, 09:42:49 PM
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My first foray into colonials. All minis are from Artizan Designs and they were a pleasure to paint. This thread will be be updated as my friend Frank get more minis painted and test out my adapted Lion Rampant rules while we wait for The Men Who Would Be Kings rules to be published.
First up are British Infantry.
More information on my blog - comments here or on my blog are much appreciated.
http://londonbymidnight.blogspot.dk/2016/02/colonial-british-infantry.html (http://londonbymidnight.blogspot.dk/2016/02/colonial-british-infantry.html)
(https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-Nj6bk_DBrBQ/VrkLnP5FtKI/AAAAAAAACRs/z6mjj6D7GXM/s640/20160208_172646.jpg)
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I like that shade of khaki. If I may though, there are a couple of figures in the other pics displaying a very ugly mould line running down the trousers and puttees : it is a shame it wasn't filed off before painting.
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Excellent!! If you have half as much fun as we do with our NW Frontier games using TMWWBK, you'll have a blast! Keep us posted on your progress with the forces... Mine keep growing... 59 Anglo-Indians and 124 Pathans so far with plenty more still to do!!
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I like that shade of khaki. If I may though, there are a couple of figures in the other pics displaying a very ugly mould line running down the trousers and puttees : it is a shame it wasn't filed off before painting.
Mould lines are my curse. I always forgot to get them all and sometimes I forget to remove even one!!!
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Excellent!! If you have half as much fun as we do with our NW Frontier games using TMWWBK, you'll have a blast! Keep us posted on your progress with the forces... Mine keep growing... 59 Anglo-Indians and 124 Pathans so far with plenty more still to do!!
Thanks... we are looking forward to trying our home brewed rules out... while not the real thing they should be close enough in character for us to find out wheter we like them.
This project is unusual for me as I normally have to gollect both sides of the conflict but with Frank onbord I only have to buy the Anglo-Indians.
Next will be either the Guides or Sikhs.
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Looks great 8) 8) 8)
The rocky background looks familiar(?) ??? ??? ???
Darrell.
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Looks great 8) 8) 8)
The rocky background looks familiar(?) ??? ??? ???
Darrell.
Thanks ... and yes it has doubled as mediterranean hills/rock for my Broken Legions project.
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Mould lines are my curse. I always forgot to get them all and sometimes I forget to remove even one!!!
Well, it doesn't ruin the paint job but it is quite distracting.
Which paint did you use for the khaki besides the army painter primer, by the way ?
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After the base paint job I applied the Soft Tone shade. I then mixed Vallejo Iraqi Sand and Army Painter Necrotic Flesh and applied that.
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Very nice, although technically not right for the Uprising. The British most obviously, should have Lee Metfords.
That said, they are your figures so who cares. As long as you are happy.. ;)
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Very nice, although technically not right for the Uprising. The British most obviously, should have Lee Metfords.
I concur. Studio do some nice Brits that are more in tune with your chosen theater of war:
http://www.studiominiatures.com/index.php?option=com_k2&view=itemlist&layout=category&task=category&id=46&Itemid=469
Cheers,
Darrell.
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Having read The Frontier Ablaze book I was fully aware of the Lee Metford rifle being the standard rifle of the Brits. Like I said these are not historically correct for the period we Have chosen, but will do for colonial wargaming for a couple of Danes :)
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Having read The Frontier Ablaze book I was fully aware of the Lee Metford rifle being the standard rifle of the Brits. Like I said these are not historically correct for the period we Have chosen, but will do for colonial wargaming for a couple of Danes :)
I'm exactly the same. I decided to use models I liked rather than worry about what rifle they have. :D
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Sikh Infantry
http://londonbymidnight.blogspot.dk/2016/02/colonials-sikh-infantry.html (http://londonbymidnight.blogspot.dk/2016/02/colonials-sikh-infantry.html)
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-jxr-f7VxoZg/VrrvcnG_mwI/AAAAAAAACR4/zekPiuwGjng/s640/20160208_174507.jpg)
(https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-s7RZOquNpyA/VrrvdcVa5SI/AAAAAAAACSI/el-l0kX0IQU/s640/20160208_203249.jpg)
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They all look superb, Jack. Couldn't agree more that you should use whatever figures you like. Well done!
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I'm exactly the same. I decided to use models I liked rather than worry about what rifle they have. :D
That's just the way my thinking's going as I build my units for 'The Men Who Would Be Kings' I'm going to use Artizan figures for Harry Feversham's Royal North Surrey Regiment, because they've got that patch on their 'ats, that everyone says should be carved off! The fact that they're all toting Martini-Henrys instead of Lee-Metfords doesn't worry me one bit... them Zulu rifles look nicer than bolt actions anyway!
:-*
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That's just the way my thinking's going as I build my units for 'The Men Who Would Be Kings' I'm going to use Artizan figures for Harry Feversham's Royal North Surrey Regiment, because they've got that patch on their 'ats, that everyone says should be carved off! The fact that they're all toting Martini-Henrys instead of Lee-Metfords doesn't worry me one bit... them Zulu rifles look nicer than bolt actions anyway!
:-*
Very much agree with you - half of the experience for me when playing wargames is that I like the miniatures that I use. It is the reason that Frostgrave despite the fun gameplay does not grab me - it is too stereotype fantasy.
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I have been to-ing and fro-ing about getting into this period. I have some Artizan Designs Andalusians which were very nice to paint so I am tempted to get some of their Afghans. This thread might be the tipping point....
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Come to the dark side! >:D
VSF troops can be armed anyway you like! ;)
Seriously, I have to agree. I use the troops that I like to play with and don't worry whether they have helmet flashes, wrong uniform or even weapon. At typical viewing range during a game, you can't make out those details anyway and only the most hardcore historians would know the difference even if they could make out the details. :)
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Do they have a pith helmet and a rifle?
That'll do for me. Life is far too short to worry about that sort of thing. Far better to get the troops on the table and play, then deprive yourself of games because they aren't just right.
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Do they have a pith helmet and a rifle?
That'll do for me. Life is far too short to worry about that sort of thing. Far better to get the troops on the table and play, then deprive yourself of games because they aren't just right.
Please don't take the following as a critique, it is not mean't so; I asked the question, Do We Owe it to the Men Who Fought to get it Right? on the following link and I thought you chaps may be interested in reading some of the comments:
http://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=87175.0
I'd be interested in what anyone has to add to the question on the above thread ;) :)
Darrell.
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I am trying to find out the ranges of the weapons that will be used in the setting:
Lee Metford
Martini-Henry
Jezail
If the Lee Metford's range is 24" what would the ranges of the other two be?
Any suggestions?
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Got around to taking some pictures of my Guides unit - quite like the look of them especially the officer.
http://londonbymidnight.blogspot.dk/2016/02/colonials-guides.html (http://londonbymidnight.blogspot.dk/2016/02/colonials-guides.html)
(https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-qDWQ9ZmWD4E/VsB7T9biTgI/AAAAAAAACV4/DANnfWTqG90/s640/20160208_173515.jpg)
(https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-N3scZRfNWqo/VsB7TvpdDaI/AAAAAAAACV0/QBiUjYfHPuY/s640/20160208_173538.jpg)
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nice figures and terain
what did you change ore use from dragon/lion rampant?
i like the rules too and playd zuluwar- brits -light infantry(abel too form shild/bayonetwall and the zulu as belicose foot
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nice figures and terain
what did you change ore use from dragon/lion rampant?
i like the rules too and playd zuluwar- brits -light infantry(abel too form shild/bayonetwall and the zulu as belicose foot
Well they are not quite finished yet... But getting there.
I have looked at the information that some of the playtesters have written about and what the author has revealed.
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Re: comparative ranges of Lee-Metford, Martini-Henry, and Jezzails...
If talking about effective range, a Lee-Metford would have twice that (800 yds) of a Martini-Henry (400 yds), and also twice that of a long-barreled flintlock rifle, aka: Jezzail (250-300 -- some would say 400 -- yds).
If talking Maximum Range, then the Martini-Henry would have a slight edge over the Lee-Metford, with both coming in under 2000 yds, while the Jezzail would be done at 500 yds. IMHO those extreme ranges are not pertinent for gaming purposes, except perhaps for special characters in skirmish games.
Of course, the other big difference is RATE OF FIRE, which for a trained shooter would be about 3 rounds per minute for the Jezzail, 12 round per minute for the single-shot breechloading Martini-Henry, and 20 for the bolt-action magazine-fed Lee-Metford.
Easy to see why towards the end of the 19th Century, widespread British use of the Lee-Metford and increased availability of Martini-Henrys and even some Lee-Metfords and similar bolt-action magazine rifles amongst NWF tribesmen (from a variety of sources), led to a paradigm shift in tactics used by both sides on the frontier, the 1897 Pathan Revolt being an excellent example.
Meanwhile, nice work on the figures!
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Re: comparative ranges of Lee-Metford, Martini-Henry, and Jezzails...
If talking about effective range, a Lee-Metford would have twice that (800 yds) of a Martini-Henry (400 yds), and also twice that of a long-barreled flintlock rifle, aka: Jezzail (250-300 -- some would say 400 -- yds).
If talking Maximum Range, then the Martini-Henry would have a slight edge over the Lee-Metford, with both coming in under 2000 yds, while the Jezzail would be done at 500 yds. IMHO those extreme ranges are not pertinent for gaming purposes, except perhaps for special characters in skirmish games.
Of course, the other big difference is RATE OF FIRE, which for a trained shooter would be about 3 rounds per minute for the Jezzail, 12 round per minute for the single-shot breechloading Martini-Henry, and 20 for the bolt-action magazine-fed Lee-Metford.
Easy to see why towards the end of the 19th Century, widespread British use of the Lee-Metford and increased availability of Martini-Henrys and even some Lee-Metfords and similar bolt-action magazine rifles amongst NWF tribesmen (from a variety of sources), led to a paradigm shift in tactics used by both sides on the frontier, the 1897 Pathan Revolt being an excellent example.
Meanwhile, nice work on the figures!
Thanks Mad Guru.
I think I will go for the following:
Lee Metford: 30"
Martini-Henry: 24"
Jezail: 18"
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I am trying to find out the ranges of the weapons that will be used in the setting:
Lee Metford
Martini-Henry
Jezail
If the Lee Metford's range is 24" what would the ranges of the other two be?
Any suggestions?
In our TMWWBK games, we approach it thus to simulate the varying factors involved:
Lee Metford - Modern rifle - 24" range BUT we give the models 'sharpshooter' so they hit on 4+ not 5+. This is to simulate a greater rate of fire rather than them being 'better shots'.
Martini Henry - Modern rifle - 24" with no modifier to shooting stats
Pathan Rifles (which could include long barrelled Jezzail) - Obsolete Rifle - 18" range. We reduce shooting value to 6+ to represent poor rate of fire (we sometimes give them a better chance to snipe the Brits' leaders to compensate - that's always fun!)
Pathan muzzle loader (e.g. Enfield rifle, old British musket, etc) - Musket - 12" range, with reduced shooting stats as above.
Works really well for us as you'll see if you've followed our batreps or seen us playing the game at our wargame show last November, although I appreciate that the relative ranges aren't 'right'. However, what we have done does not unbalance the game - we still have approx. 50-50 success for Brits and Pathans, which we like. :D
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Been working on a lot of terrain for the project and finished it just this evening. Everything is scratch built except the small hills in the "rough terrain" which are from Amera Plastic Moulds.
A lot more information and images on my blog: http://londonbymidnight.blogspot.dk/2016/04/colonial-north-west-frontier-terrain.html (http://londonbymidnight.blogspot.dk/2016/04/colonial-north-west-frontier-terrain.html)
(https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-oZesOuuejgg/VwbCaryogaI/AAAAAAAACcc/r4DlOmlKwC0u83PmNkQSZOYZVqvT4vt8A/s640/20160407_213737.jpg)
(https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-9ah2Yj6aZLc/VwbCb_skcsI/AAAAAAAACco/AyilLWFaBgkEo3X3hWrf8zxh7eqNouLXA/s640/20160407_213806.jpg)
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-4ZbeVxLJwQU/VwbCd7lbbgI/AAAAAAAACc8/jE554xsDnqsgCYYs7eF2XlgYq5_PtjRAw/s640/20160407_222437.jpg)
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Terrain looks brilliant. That's a very nice muted earth tone you have there Saucy...looks right on the money!!
Cheers
Happy Wanderer
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Terrain looks brilliant. That's a very nice muted earth tone you have there Saucy...looks right on the money!!
Cheers
Happy Wanderer
Thanks Happy - I have been unsure about the colour. But I think this will do.
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I did quite a bit of research on the 1897 uprising about 5 years ago. During the course of that I was able to look at original copies of the 1889 and 1897 "Infantry Drill" books used by the British Army. I cannot now, for the life of me, find the notes or the photocopies that I made.
If I recall correctly the main difference between the two manuals was that "Effective" range, from the 1889 manual, for the Martini was 400 yards, 800 yards "Long" range and upto 1450 yards maximum range. For the Lee-Metford, in the 1897 manual, "Effective" was 500 yards, "Long" was 1000 yards and "Maximum" was 2000 yards (though the sights, depending upon model, were graduated for up to 2,800 yards). I'll stand to be corrected on the longer range bands but I'm almost 100% certain that the "Effective" ranges were very similar.
As to the rate of fire...although the Lee-Metford had a magazine this was almost never used in routine shooting. It was actually fitted with a special cut-off to prevent its use. In normal circumstances single shots were fired and then a new round would be loaded. The magazine was thus always reserved, fully loaded, to deal with "emergency" situations, such as a sudden charge by previously hidden Ghazis.
Hope that helps :)
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Excellent!! :)
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I did quite a bit of research on the 1897 uprising about 5 years ago. During the course of that I was able to look at original copies of the 1889 and 1897 "Infantry Drill" books used by the British Army. I cannot now, for the life of me, find the notes or the photocopies that I made.
If I recall correctly the main difference between the two manuals was that "Effective" range, from the 1889 manual, for the Martini was 400 yards, 800 yards "Long" range and upto 1450 yards maximum range. For the Lee-Metford, in the 1897 manual, "Effective" was 500 yards, "Long" was 1000 yards and "Maximum" was 2000 yards (though the sights, depending upon model, were graduated for up to 2,800 yards). I'll stand to be corrected on the longer range bands but I'm almost 100% certain that the "Effective" ranges were very similar.
As to the rate of fire...although the Lee-Metford had a magazine this was almost never used in routine shooting. It was actually fitted with a special cut-off to prevent its use. In normal circumstances single shots were fired and then a new round would be loaded. The magazine was thus always reserved, fully loaded, to deal with "emergency" situations, such as a sudden charge by previously hidden Ghazis.
Hope that helps :)
Thanks Hobbit... Much appreciated
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Had our first game yesterday - this was a Colonial debut for both me and my friend Frank, and the first time the terrain was in use.
More information and pictures on my blog: http://londonbymidnight.blogspot.dk/2016/05/1897-pathan-uprising-game.html (http://londonbymidnight.blogspot.dk/2016/05/1897-pathan-uprising-game.html)
(https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-fm0uYs54ibI/Vz2kXB2odbI/AAAAAAAACfE/Pw6wY8MLANcWmSPyCdL2t2TXoYfQJYiVgCLcB/s640/20160518_194415.jpg)
(https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-Qii3O4HBFrw/Vz2kXvyoIFI/AAAAAAAACfU/d05vPZte0IcL00Zr_p-pVAmk06bBlUKugCLcB/s640/20160518_201844.jpg)
(https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-Z_Bc_-nM6no/Vz2kYxz-PZI/AAAAAAAACgI/4HkuqXtCU4AeB0qd4pKVMtmV7tLA8C83QCLcB/s640/20160518_204540.jpg)
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That looks great.
Hope my table and forces look half as good as that when I'm finished.
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Yep,table looks great :)
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Looks fabulous!! Such a great period to game!!
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Thank you for all the nice comments... must admit that I am not entirely satisfied with the board myself.
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Thank you for all the nice comments... must admit that I am not entirely satisfied with the board myself.
Get yourself a load of the pale brown lichen and use it to conceal the transitions from hill to baseboard. Makes a massive difference!!
The pale colour stands out less than the green, suits the generally more arid NW Frontier terrain and just give the table a bit more...I dunno...'volume' I guess. Look on my blog in the 'Men Who Would Be Kings' posts to see how we do it. Your hills are far better than ours so I reckon it'd work great with your table...
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Some lovely looking figures there...nice terrain to.
Top stuff ;) ;)
1897 Pathan Uprising...a good topic...just a little different ;)
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Some lovely looking figures there...nice terrain to.
Top stuff ;) ;)
1897 Pathan Uprising...a good topic...just a little different ;)
Cheers Happy :)
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Hi,
In response to you not being very happy with your terrain...I did a lot of work on this a few years ago and initially I found it very difficult to conceptualise how the represent the NWF on a tabletop. So I spent quite a lot of time looking at period maps, sketches from war correspondents and even modern satellite imagery.
First off there is no one typical NWF terrain; some areas were near desert, others described as lushly cultivated. Some showed few signs of habitation; others had lots of little villages and hamlets dotted about surrounded by patches of crops and/or little walled orchards. The cultivated areas in the valley bottoms could be quite flat (and make excellent ground for your lancers ;) ).
One of the key features though is, of course, hills. One of the military manuals that I looked at described the typical hill as being like the skeleton of a fish with the spine of the fish being the central ridge and lots of little ridges and ravines running off to either side. My solution (to a project that was never carried past concept stage :( ) would have been to have that "spine" along one table edge with the ravines running in to about half way across the table. You could build this as a fairly huge dedicated piece of terrain (with all of the difficulties that involves) or maybe have just 3 or 4 separate ridges sticking out, like fingers, from one table edge (almost certainly far more practical from a building/storage point of view).
Hope that makes sense and is useful.