Lead Adventure Forum
Miniatures Adventure => Age of Myths, Gods and Empires => Topic started by: Keith T on February 29, 2016, 01:45:10 PM
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Hi All
Just spent the weekend in sunny Swinden playing WAB chariot wars, possible the last GT :(, only 12 players, all good friends and good company but we feel that as their is no longer any support for these rules so what next?
I am looking at Hail Ceaser but it looks like big battles and not competition friendly.
WAB in its hay day had great booklets that gave you lots of historical info on the period, a painting guide and army lists all in one. :)
What do you people play and would you recommend that I try?
cheers
Keith
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Although it was designed for big battles with 15mm, have a look at War & Empire from Forged in Battle.
The rules are still on Beta-testing at present, but they look good and play well.
Otherwise try Impetus from Dadi & Piombo
http://www.dadiepiombo.it/images/stories/dp/basic2.html
There is a basic trial version that is free.
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Personally, I think if you enjoy them then play them.
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i second Impetus, simple but good system and allows you not to worry too much of the single men, working on larger bases! I personally am working on a 15mm army, but 28mm works greatly as well!
However, if you already have your men based individually, its main perk might fade away. You can still play keeping the men on larger bases of course.
(http://imageshack.com/a/img924/8518/PbOKpM.jpg)
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I'm sure War and Conquest are pretty much WAB v2 as they are by Rob Broom.
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Another vote for Impetus both Basic and Full Impetus. Basic Impetus you can get free btw. I really like the large basing and the game mechanics which allow for a more unpredictable game, but still mostly rewards the player using good tactics. I've tried others, but keep coming back to Impetus.
If your looking for a game similar to WAB then War and Conquest and Clash of Empires are the unofficial Successors of WAB.
Christopher
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As well as Impetus and WaC, you might like to look at my "To the Strongest!" rules. You can fit in three games of TtS! in a day without raising a sweat, the rules were written to support competition and there is no need to re-base, so you can continue to use the minis with WAB, too. The next tournament is on 21st May in Cardiff, details to be found at http://bigredbat.blogspot.co.uk/2016/02/the-to-strongest-wales-open-may-21st.html (http://bigredbat.blogspot.co.uk/2016/02/the-to-strongest-wales-open-may-21st.html).
Best, Simon
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War & Conquest is basically WAB 3.0 (it isnīt abbreviated to WAC for nothing....)
See here for a review of mine http://pijlieblog.blogspot.nl/2013/12/why-we-all-should-know-about-war-and.html (http://pijlieblog.blogspot.nl/2013/12/why-we-all-should-know-about-war-and.html)
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Keith -
I play Hail Caesar, and I think that the rules give an outstanding game. But you are quite right, in that HC was designed for large battles played amongst friends in a relaxed social setting, and not for tournament competitions. In any case, HC is really a 'successor' to Warmaster Ancients, rather than to WAB.
Cheers,
Scott
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I second N8 - what is it that you have lost just because it's no longer "supported"?
There is so much detail and flexibility in the WAB the rules and sourcebooks you can take it anywhere you want. If you've been playing it for years you must know it inside out and be more than capable of taking it any any direction you please yourselves.
If you fancy creating lists for the Aztecs and Conquistadores, or armies for the Macedonian successor kingdoms on the borders of India (for example) then nothing stopping you but your research and ability to agree on the mods.
Go for it guys. Why give up something you love?
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Keith
Well while you guys were in Swindon playing WAB - some of us were playing War & Conquest just down the road in a village called Bushton!
Next event is in Iron Acton (north of Bristol) and then the one after that is Newark /Nottinghamshire - a good crowd all enjoying a weekends wargaming - a number of ex WABBers among them so theres a lively community
Pics from the most recent event here http://scarabminiatures.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=2096&p=12197#p12197
Theres a lot of them so a couple of teaser pics here
(http://scarabminiatures.com/forum/download/file.php?id=1951)
(http://scarabminiatures.com/forum/download/file.php?id=1954)
(http://scarabminiatures.com/forum/download/file.php?id=1982)
(http://scarabminiatures.com/forum/download/file.php?id=1992)
I am currently working on some supporting War & Conquest publications and army lists are online free - If you are at Hammerhead March 5th, we will be there running a big demo - Battle of Amphipolis
Small version here http://scarabminiatures.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=896
heres 1 pic (http://scarabminiatures.com/forum/download/file.php?id=627)
Any questions ,just drop me a pm/email or whatever
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How much crunchiness are you looking for in your games? A quick and easy suggestion is Lion Rampant (honestly, buy Dragon Rampant - same game, but fleshed out a bit more). However it's not hard-history or crunchy.
It would also be a little different running large units (not something you couldn't figure out).
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I have tried both COE and WAC, the first is closer to WAB while WAC has more subtle difference like weighted die throws for morale and very novel rules for skirmishers.My only concern with WAC is the army lists ,some are very open to power gamers. An example I recently played a game against an Ancient Brit army which was composed of just veterans and Fanatics! Checking the lists I was surprised there are no real limits on choices?Even WAB had a raito of 2 warrior units to one vet.
When you say supported , do you mean an active tournament scene? As Rob indicated WAC does run tourneys, in respect of COE, I am not sure.The Great escape lot haven't added any lists for a few years and don't seem very active in promoting their game. The tournament scene seems far quieter now than the glory days of the past.
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Clash of Empires was written as an unashamed twin to WAB, but with a couple of the loopholes ironed out. It certainly reads like another edition of WAB.
Lion Rampant (or Dragons Rampant) are very much fun skirmish games with the emphasis on quick play, not detail. They're cheap as chips, too (less than Ģ8ea from BooksEtc).
Hail Caesar is more of your grand battle thingy, emphasising the difficulties of command and control over large bodies of troops.
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At Peterborough, we rather like WaC (well, some of us do!!) and we are involved (well, I am involved) in writing some Arthurian/Late Roman and enemies army lists with Rob Broom's support. We have an Arthurian all day event in September which welcomes the inexperienced as well as the experienced players!
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WAB is still very much a stand alone and good system, so is WAC just a different and revamped way of playing using similar basing system, both good.
Lion rampant and variants also good but significantly more simple and loads of fun.
l use the above can be used without rebasing effectively, as long as you see lion rampant as unit based rather than "skirmish", I certainly use multi figure basing rather than single figure basing, works just fine.
I am revamping my 15mm for ADLG Art de la Guerre - which uses the DBx basing system, looks really good. I have also seen people use these rules for 28mm with the WAB /WAC basing as long as all "elements are same width again works fine.
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Thanks for all the replies.
What I and many of my WAB chums are after I suppose is a new version of WAB.
The original books and army lists which were period specific eg AGE OF ARTHUR, EL CID, HANIBAL etc which came with details of all the armies that fought each other, battles, how to paint and play with them, were great books and very helpful.
I don't like printing out a PDF I like eye candy, does not have to be hardback but hard wearing .
WAC AND COE are not very different from WAB and I hate to admit it but the last version WAB2 was not the best and the ARMIES OF ANTIQUITY army lists were crap. :( :(
I will give Hail Ceasar a try and others that I hear will be released later this year, one from Gripping Beast and another from a nice chap Simon Hall. :) :)
TTFN
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WaC is actually quite a bit different to WAB in some areas, but gives a very similar overall feel. I think CoE is more similar from reading through it once...
However, do try Hail Caesar. I have enjoyed it with big battles but am not sure how well it'd work at a smaller scale. You really need armies at least twice the size of your typical Age of Arthur 1500pts to really get the best out of HC in my opinion.
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As others have said Hail Ceaser is good for handling larger games and has some mechanisms which allow a game with around twice the figures you use in a 2000pt WAB game (depends on army of course) to be finished in 2-3 hours. It does lack a bit of WABs character driven quality to me though which I enjoy but I know some others don't so much.
We have tried CoE & initially it looked a good set of rules with some nice additionality to WAB but after several games it became clear it was unbalanced to certain army lists (significantly so) and extermely 'anti-character' - so not really for us.
I've bought WAC but still not had a go with it so that's the next one for us to try.
I have to say though we are still happy to use WAB at our club as we still enjoy it as a rules set.
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If you are happy with WAB, why replace it?
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WaC is actually quite a bit different to WAB in some areas, but gives a very similar overall feel. .
I would agree with Andy on this point - whilst I was manager at WHW many people made suggestions would could not be applied.
So, when I came to write War & Conquest (after many requests) I took stock of all that feedback and applied what I could where it made sense.
So yes, while it may feel familiar, War & Conquest really does unfold in a completely different way and as our gaming days and weekends show - the games can get very exciting and bring about plenty of laughter and fun.. If that's what you are after, you might like to give it a try
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Are Gripping Beast bringing out a set of rules? I have not seen anything about this??
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Are Gripping Beast bringing out a set of rules? I have not seen anything about this??
Yes. Spearpoint. I believe it will be on display at Salute. Not sure when it is to be released though.
Jim
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I came to WAC never having played WAB but it ticked all the boxes for me, I have played Hail Caesar and WAC is in my opinion a far superior game. I agree with you on the army lists and the over use of elite troops, however the new Arthurian lists for instance are excellent and when using large armies force players to take some troops which they would rather leave behind. Rob is also very much open to suggestions and if you put your case for changes then it will happen, I have already gone through this with my Aurelian Roman army list.
The tournaments are great fun and a terrific way to spend a weekend, you can read a more in depth report on the latest weekend at Swindon here http://musingswargameslife.blogspot.co.uk/2016/02/war-and-conquest-swindon-weekend-1.html there are several other reports from past tournaments as well.
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There is a rumour of another rule set that is currently being written by a experienced rule writer aimed at mass battles that is due out later this year.
I'm afraid that even though I haven't signed a gagging order I can't really in good faith say anymore :)
Darrell.
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There is a rumour of another rule set that is currently being written by a experienced rule writer aimed at mass battles that is due out later this year.
I'm afraid that even though I haven't signed a gagging order I can't really in good faith say anymore :)
Darrell.
Aimed at a period or a wide range of periods?
DJ
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Aimed at a period or a wide range of periods?
DJ
Wide range in so far as I know :)
Darrell.
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I think WAB was as successful as it was because you could play it with smaller armies. All the rulesets that have tried to replace it so far, have all been geared to large battles requiring large collections such as Hail Ceasar. Hopefully the new rules by Gripping Beast won't require such a big start off cost and gaming space.
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I used to play WAB but moved away from gaming...what happened to this system? Was it dropped because it did not make enough money? Could it (will it) ever be revived? I also loved the Western rules-they were superb....
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Why replace it if it works so well for you?
Old editions of 40k and WFB are still alive and kicking, so why not start up an OldWabber movement?
:D
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I think from previous posts there already exists a grassroots support for WAB, I believe there are still WAB games days which attract a reasonable level of gamers. Despite the hype , I don't really think the so called successors offered anything new or were superior to WAB.
I remember a couple of years ago attending a WOTR themed day at Wayland Games and with minimal advertising, we really just wanted to book a couple of tables for a reunion battle between four of us, and were surprised when 10 gamers had joined us!
I actually think WAB was a very good seller unfortunately GW didn't seem interested in the product and still hold the copyright over all published and even the unpublished supplements.
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I think from previous posts there already exists a grassroots support for WAB, I believe there are still WAB games days which attract a reasonable level of gamers. Despite the hype , I don't really think the so called successors offered anything new or were superior to WAB.
I remember a couple of years ago attending a WOTR themed day at Wayland Games and with minimal advertising, we really just wanted to book a couple of tables for a reunion battle between four of us, and were surprised when 10 gamers had joined us!
I actually think WAB was a very good seller unfortunately GW didn't seem interested in the product and still hold the copyright over all published and even the unpublished supplements.
Yes, I heard that GW still own everything. Pity, as there are supposedly some good unpublished supplements out there. I still enjoy the game occasionally (especially with the Age of Arthur and El Cid supplements), although I do generally prefer WaC these days...
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I think WAB was as successful as it was because you could play it with smaller armies. All the rulesets that have tried to replace it so far, have all been geared to large battles requiring large collections such as Hail Ceasar. Hopefully the new rules by Gripping Beast won't require such a big start off cost and gaming space.
Hail Caesar doesn't require a large collection and it seems to me people get the wrong impression that it does because the authors have large collections. You decide how big a unit is for your games -- use DBA stands if you want, or have standard units of three models, and so forth. It's flexibility is quite nice.
Hail Caesar is philosophically a different game, though.
WAB is focused on units of individual figures and the minutiae of unit formations. HC focuses on unit positioning and leadership.