Lead Adventure Forum
Miniatures Adventure => Post-Apocalyptic Tales => Topic started by: Braxandur on December 17, 2008, 06:57:49 AM
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It took a while, but the guys at Wargames factory posted the preview shots:
Tim Barry ripped into the Zombie sculpts faster than a 3-year old into a Wiggles shop and we have the first images to post up for you.
These are digital images from FreeForm (all of our miniatures are sculpted with an all-digital process) that have been rendered to "look" like miniature plastic figures and show all the details.
We've also refined what will actually be on the sprue. We may be able to get a few extra "bits" -- but for now the sprue will be made up of the following:
5 torsos (including one female torso)
5 legs
5 right arms
5 left arms
9 male heads
3 female heads
The legs are being designed so that there are no specifically female legs (no dresses, skirts, etc) so that you can mix and match any of these parts with almost every other part (exception would be a male head on a female torso!) Tim is also doing a mix of decay levels -- from almost skeletal to "fresh" Zed.
(http://www.wargamesfactory.com/Images/zombies.jpg)
(http://www.wargamesfactory.com/Images/zombies2.jpg)
(http://www.wargamesfactory.com/Images/zombies3.jpg)
Not sure yet what to think of these, I can indeed already see usefull parts in there, but would be happy with some larger sized images (especially of the heads). The 10 sprues I'd pre-order will probably turn into more though :D
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So far so poor.
Nothing here to make me want these. There's something very wrong with the decayed one's arms. These look to be rushed publicity shots of the computer rendering with not much attention put into presenting them. Doesn't bode well for the final product.
This whole thing smacks of pushing stuff out that people have asked for but do it quick because the company have no actual interest in the subject matter and were hoping people would ask for other stuff.
These are as badly proportioned as the GW ones (huge heads) and look to end up with the same bad poses once you've assembled them because they're made from 'generic' pieces (read bits that don't actually fit well together in a any combination but sort of fit every other bit on the sprue).
Poor design coupled with shabby implementation resulting in a big missed opportunity. People will no doubt buy them, fooled into thinking they're good because they're cheap (and as we know, there's a whole slew of 'hobbyists' that hold cheapness as their one overriding criteria of worth) and will probably buy loads too which will keep the manufacturer happy. Very few will ever see the tabletop though because they're multi-part, fiddly, insubstantial pieces of crap with no style or 'look' to them.
Cheap never seems to equal value-for-money in this hobby; just lack of interest, care and imagination.
Personally I think rubbish like this needs to be stamped out before it becomes the norm. Maybe another plastics manufacturer will produce a range made by a sculptor that has some passion for his or her subject. I'd buy those.
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Wow! Matakishi!
That's quite a statement. I believe it may be part of a "larger" context that I'm not quite aware of? At least the almost ideologic reasoning makes me think that. Is there a war on?! :)
I do agree though that they aren't that good. I think the arms of the "flesh" one are meant to be bones in bags of skin. At least that's what I thought. :D
I was about to write that I wasn't hugely impressed myself, but that I find it hard to use computer renderings as basis of assumption. :?
The zeds I have myself are from many manufacturers. The only buy I partly regret is the mega miniatures ones. They are very poor - certainly looking more poor than these.
I ought to love them though as my wallet is certainly thin being a student with 3 children!
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hmmmm... i think i'll just make my own :?
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I am really surprised by this thread so far. I am not a fan of plastics myself but then it is very unlikely any of the players will make a range I am interested in. Yes, they are cheaper but I do not think them cheap compared to metals. I hate zombies (heresy you all cry) so these were never going to ignite any passions in me and I have been lambasted for speaking my mind on the quality of the Romans etc. but I have to say that I am surprised to see these so soon and also they are far better than I expected.
I will echo all the above comments about quality/poses/multi part etc. as they are indeed not brilliant but will again say I am surprised by Wargames Factory on these.
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Disappointing, to say the least.
Yes, they are digital images, and some will wait to see the actual minis, before reaching a judgement, but presumably if the pictures weren't representative of the end product, why would they release them?
I agree with Paul, they look hastily thought out - interchangeable sprues sounds great, but in practice (or at least in this instance) it looks very disjointed. Anatomy just looks odd.
If these were the only zombies available, i'd buy them, but they aren't, so i probably won't (unless they look a great deal better once they actually have a product to sell)
For gamers new to the genre, its maybe a cheap starter product (with the emphasis upon cheap) in much the same way most of us probably had a bucket of plastic WW2 soldiers when we were kids ..... but then we grew up (a little), and moved onto better quality products.
:(
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Well, the first images appear sooner than expected. My first impression was actually that these look pretty good in the details, but the poses could be a lot better. The heads could be a bit smaller indeed, but I didn't see them as disturbingly big. The torsos probably look best of all, the legs and arms just look a bit off in anatony and posture, the heads are ok but could use a lot more character I think. Also I think more female torsos would be a plus maybe :)
I don't think they rushed them because zombies are not their thing, judging by the enthusiastm they took on this project with I think the main problem is that the sculptor isn't a star in anatomy yet, and I can't really blame him because it's really hard to get it right.
Oh, and a note on the detail, I expect the plastics to look a bit worse than these actually, with more superficial detail.
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Wow, that's a lot of negative vibes here o_o
Honestly, they are not the best models. Even far from the best zombies. But if you look at it as parts for zombie conversions I think they are quite good. Off course the heads are still a bit big, but I figure these can easily be resized with the software.
The pictures sadly don't show enough detail. I really would have liked to see the pictures at bigger resolution. Should not be a problem with the computer software IMHO.
The models can still turn out nice, or maybe I'm just a sucker for plastic parts :P
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Hard to judge from the size and quality of the pictures, but they don't seem terribly exciting.
Then again, they are showing the WIP's to get feedback. So they are still up for alteration, if enough people give the same comments.
I have to agree that the heads could do with some shrinking. Some more variation in poses for the arms at least would be nice. These are all just too akwardly straight. (I'm not to bothered about the legs and torso, they're fine for "shamblers") Some bent arms, or arms held close to the torso, etc. There are plenty of zombie poses to take inspiration from...
I'm not too worried yet, as I didn't expect these plastic zombies to be more than "padding": the extra's with rubber masks in the back of the shot.. I'd be treating them similarly anyway: just a quick basecoat and a wash or dip and they're good to go, maybe even base them in groups instead of singles. The nice paintjobs will remain reserved for more interesting (metal) zombies.
And these are great terrain fodder: scatter a few bodyparts in craters or ruined buildings for "atmosphere". :D
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Wow! Matakishi!
That's quite a statement. I believe it may be part of a "larger" context that I'm not quite aware of? At least the almost ideologic reasoning makes me think that. Is there a war on?! :)
Nope, no axe to grind, don't care one way or another except these are utter rubbish and being 'new' and 'cheap' doesn't excuse that.
I am as needful of a zombie horde as anyone but at the moment mine will be made from Eureka zombies which are better than these in every way except cost. Cheap shit is still shit. The shirtless zombie's right arm in pic 1 and 2 becomes his left arm in pic 3, that's the sort of 'interchangability' I can do without.
Anyone else can buy as many of these as they like, it's their hobby and I wouldn't dream of trying to dictate how they should enjoy it but in my opinion Wargames Factory could improve by employing a sculptor instead of a software operator, maybe then these would look better. No guarantees, plenty of other companies think sticking 'zombie' on the pack is an excuse for dire figures.
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While they might not look the best in their current, digitized, form I may pick up at least one sprue. The ability to make dynamic poses with zombies is really kind of slick. Having them made form plastic means that me, a dremel, and some green/brown stuff can do some interesting things.
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I'm not sure how clear it was to everyone that the first photos were an assortment of bits assembled virtually to see how they went together. The larger images I saw earlier this week were far better photos; these were not flattering shots. :(
Tim's been following suggestions, and has put some rather better shots up here (scroll down);
http://www.wargamesfactory.com/BookingRetrieve.aspx?ID=36690
The point of showing early work ups is very much to get feedback from potential customers. I note, for instance, that there's a general feeling that 'fresh' and 'decayed' zombie parts look odd together. That makes sense! There have also been suggestions that, while zombies are supposed to be stiff and oddly animated, a bit more stagger and grippiness are needed.
It's important for us to get these first 'Liberty and Union' figures right, because we are trying to be responsive not only to what customers say they want, but also to give them a quality product. We aren't a big company - we are just four blokes with a bit of start-up cash and some new technology that offers us a chance to make wargame figures in an inexpensive way. We don't want to make what Matakishi (who is normally a real gent) refers to as 'cheap shit', which I understand to be some sort of technical term. Rather, we are trying to combine quality, good price and customer responsiveness.
Which ain't easy, and that's why we are showing first renders followed by improvements. Anyone looked at the remade Celts?
http://www.wargamesfactory.com/AnnouncementRetrieve.aspx?ID=18901
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Not the best I have seen..but with some GS I think one can fix em up to a good standard ;)
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This is a new Feature of miniature sculpting!
-> the sculptor makes a virtual model, then gets some global-feedback and makes adjustments to the model!
could be a good business model for the future of plastic soldiers
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If you're doing modern zombies half (or a third at least) should be women.
Separate arms are pointless, zombies shamble so just have their arms hanging. Those that want 'dynamic' zombies can cut and reposition, others of us can remove the odd limb if we want a missing one.
Why bother having separate legs and torsos? these are supposed to be a mass zombie option, as they stand they're not getting to the front of even the most myopic wargamer's horde- these are the chorus line, different paint will suffice for different looks, six zombies on a sprue give lots of variety, plastic means those that want to can cut waists and swap/reposition torsos. Different heads would be ok, easy to fit and add another degree of variety.
That, allowing for some decent 'sculpts', would make a good product for those people who want a fast and easy zombie mob. I'm assuming those are the people that you're aiming for? Plastic means cheap and plentiful right? Not looking to make personality zombies here, plenty of them available in metal for not much more than the cost of these plastics.
How to make a zombie horde: buy boxes of zombies, twist off sprue, paint and stick to base, voila! Zombie horde.
Buy more boxes....
How NOT to make a zombie horde: buy boxes of zombies, look at myriad of ill-fitting parts, piss about with glue, knives, clippers and green stuff to assemble a few that look like shit but took ages of frustrating, fiddly work to make, look at remaining pile of plastic, snort, throw entire purchase in bin and go back to metal.
Never buy any more plastic zombies again.
As an aside, anyone who thinks it's ok to lavish time and greenstuff on a plastic figure just to make it passable as a wargaming figure, we're not talking about turning it into a character here, just make it fit for its intended purpose, needs their head examining
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Spot on Matakishi!
:)
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Then I guess I need a head check. :?
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The new pictures look way better already, showing already more of what I want:
(http://www.wargamesfactory.com/Images/zombies_headrenders.jpg)
(http://www.wargamesfactory.com/Images/zombie_render3.jpg)
Actually if I would want to make a zombie horde, I'd indeed would like to have shamblers (the ones with their arms hanging by their side) but also would like to have zombies with outstreched arms (going for brains ;D)
But specifically if I buy a plastic set of zombies I'd want them to be multipart to have the possibility of giving them the posure I choose for them. I don't want them all to look alike. Even if we're just talking about the zombies on the back of the "mob". As for cutting a plastic mini in half or to remove his arms to convert it... no thanks, multipart is way better imho.
As for lavishing time and greenstuff on the minis, well I'm a disaster with greenstuff, but I do nkow my way around plastic and enjoy spending a midday on putting my minis together in the poses I like most and mixing al kinds of plastic to see what i can come up with. But then again, I don't like making buildings from cork tiles. Maybe I really should let my head get examined cause I'm have my own ideas about what I like. (This is not meant for flaming you Matakishi... well maybe I'm a bit on the harsh side, but your blunt axe approach on people who try to do a good job, made me a bit touchy).
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Howard, nice to see such rapid response from you guys..
The second batch of pictures are a lot better than the first.
They look quite a bit better with the smaller heads. I'm guessing that more parts still need "sculpting", so I'm hoping those will incorporate any feedback/idea's on posing.
I read on your forum that you are considering dropping the female from the sprue. Any chance of a supplementary "zombie-woman" sprue?
(Looking at the generally available zombie and survivor miniatures, it seems women that have some sort of "zombie outbreak instinct": They are rarely amongst the survivors that get out last, and thus feature in most people's games, and even less even get turned into zombiesat all. It almost seems as if all women secretly leave an area just hours before the outbreak... Hmmmm, I smell a conspiracy... ;))
Just one more question: on both the Celts and the Zombies, certain features seem to be a bit exageratedly angular and pronounced (some lines on the zombie heads, the edge of the ribcage and abs on the celts, for example).
Am I right in guessing that this is done to compensate for a certain degree of "rounding" of such details when casting in plastic? Because on the celts, those features don't seem quite as extreme in the sample painted models.
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As for lavishing time and greenstuff on the minis, well I'm a disaster with greenstuff, but I do nkow my way around plastic and enjoy spending a midday on putting my minis together in the poses I like most and mixing al kinds of plastic to see what i can come up with. But then again, I don't like making buildings from cork tiles. Maybe I really should let my head get examined cause I'm have my own ideas about what I like. (This is not meant for flaming you Matakishi... well maybe I'm a bit on the harsh side, but your blunt axe approach on people who try to do a good job, made me a bit touchy).
My point was that people seem happy to buy a substandard product so that they can spend their own time, money and resources to make it do what it was supposed to do in the first place. I think that's stupid.
Nobody here is doing a good job and my axe isn't blunt. I've just explained exactly what I think is wrong with these figures. You want them for raw materials for a conversion project, then fine, but that isn't what they're being sold as.
Clawing for brains would be a nice pose too but I'm not sure how that would fit in a mold without separate arms and, given the option, I would opt for no separate arms every time.
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Aah sorry, I missed out on the fact that you were offering your opinion instead of telling me that I need my head checked :'(
We'll just see in a few weeks how all of this will turn out to look and either laugh about the result, be happy, or both (possibly divided about multiple people). Anyhow, since we can see the "sculpts" before they start casting we can at least choose to buy or not, as we see fit.
In the meanwhile I will stay enthausiastic about this endeavor.
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Modhail, I think we'll set aside the female zombies for now (we'd been discussing the breakdown of the sprue for about a week, because it's not like you can just add an extra thing later on) and go with an all male sprue.
Maybe later we can do women and children (and the dog).
It's possible that, in the same way that men don't know where the aspirin is kept or why the pharmacy is a fascinating place to shop for hours, men don't know when the zombies are coming. My wife might tell me in time, but otherwise I'd be caught with a paintbrush in hand and that'd be it for me and my brains.
As to the exaggerated detail --- well, maybe the plastic moulding has something to do with it. the other is that if you simply sculpt something to look great at, say, 200mm tall and shrink it, there's a tendency for the small detail to simply disappear and the figures to lack character. You just get a very bland figure.
At least, that's my non-technical take on it, but I could be wrong.
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Plastic means cheap and plentiful right? Not looking to make personality zombies here, plenty of them available in metal for not much more than the cost of these plastics.
I see and agree with most of the points you've presented. However, I would like to clarify, not all plastic-loving gamers love plastic because it's cheap. I love plastic because it's easy to work with, to convert, and once painted, can handle infinitely more wear and tear than metal models. Furthermore, I would suggest that the idea that metal = high quality individual sculpts and plastic = mass produced crap is fairly old-fashioned. I can think of lots of companies who cast metals that are crap, and companies who cast high-quality, beautiful miniatures in plastic.
As to the weakness in some of the rendered parts (arms for one), I don't think the answer for WF is to lower the expectations of their own products (i.e. settle for single pose "filler" models), but to keep tweaking until they reach a high level of quality. It isn't unreasonable to think that multi-part plastics can be high-quality AND cheap. Not to mention, many gamers interested in zombies enjoy the prospect of building and personalizing their horde. That's one of the appeals of modelling zombies in the first place.
Anyway matakishi, I hope this is not taken as a flame (which it isn't) but as a view from the other side of the fence (which it is). As a guy who lurks here everyday, I am an appreciator of your work and contributions to this community.
JET
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One of the flaws I see with these digital sculpts is the softness of detail and lack of definition. I recently got a sample sprue of Wargames Factory Zulu War Brits and the figures seem to lack the crispness of GW, Perry and Warlord plastic figures, which are hand-sculpted at 3 time the actual size and reduced during the milling of the molds. I think the problem lies in the digital sculpting process itself.
Direct digital sculpting for miniatures is more difficult than you would think. When you view a 25mm face for a figure on a computer screen, it is blown up approximately 5000-6000% percent of the actual size. Therefore, a digital sculptor will probably not exaggerate the folds and details as much as a traditional sculptor using putty.
Master sculptor Sandra Garrity tells a story about a Lucasfilm's decision to use digital scans of actors from Star Wars Episode One for licensed products. Digital artists used these scans to create master models for pewter figures that were supposed to look more realistic sculpts compared to traditional sculpting. The resulting product were amorphous blobs that bore no little resemblance to the actual actors. Why? Because the digital artists simply shrunk the digital scans but didn't bother to exaggerate the raised and lowered surfaces that create the detail needed for painting. At actual size a figure may look normal to us, but if you scaled it up to human size, it's eyelids would be 3/4" thick. Therefore, to make something look good at 28mm scale, the artist has to employ a large amount of distortion and exaggeration on the computer screen to create enough depth of detail.
It'd be a great learning experience to do a 3D digital scan of a high quality traditionally sculpted model and magnify it on the computer to see how much exaggeration traditional scultpors actually employ on successful figures.
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First, I think it's pretty incredible that we are even having this discussion. Wargames Factory is taking a pretty unique approach to model making. It's great to even be able to give feedback that might actually effect the way the figures are made. I'm really enjoying this process and getting pretty excited about what this could mean in the future for other minis.
Second, I had the same general underwhelmed feeling when I saw the first concept renderings. I agree that the heads were a tad big, the levels of decay were too inconsistent, and that some of the arm angles were pretty odd. However, it's amazing that such feedback was received so quickly and some better images were posted. I'm digging the new images (the heads and new full zombie) a lot. They are definitely on the right track. More fuel for my excitement about this process.
Finally, I fall on the multi-part side of the fence. I can understand the appeal of a single shambling model that can quickly find the table, but I personally am looking forward to the easy mixing and matching potential of a multi-part sprue. Also, I hope this means there will be plenty of extra arms/heads/other bits on each sprue.
Overall, I don't think we can look at these initial renderings through the same lens we look at the newest models on the shelves of our FLGS. At least for me, this is the first time I've been a part of the concept phase for models. I've got to be more patient and appreciate the opportunity at hand.
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I would like to clarify, not all plastic-loving gamers love plastic because it's cheap. I love plastic because it's easy to work with, to convert, and once painted, can handle infinitely more wear and tear than metal models.
Good point.
Furthermore, I would suggest that the idea that metal = high quality individual sculpts and plastic = mass produced crap is fairly old-fashioned. I can think of lots of companies who cast metals that are crap, and companies who cast high-quality, beautiful miniatures in plastic.
My point exactly, these are crap, the point of mentioning it is so that something can be done about it before $1000s are spent on making molds.
As to the weakness in some of the rendered parts (arms for one), I don't think the answer for WF is to lower the expectations of their own products (i.e. settle for single pose "filler" models), but to keep tweaking until they reach a high level of quality. It isn't unreasonable to think that multi-part plastics can be high-quality AND cheap.
Again, my main point. I will mention here that their figures are filler models, designed for rank and file and bulk selling. Also, even as single part figures, there will be several poses to a sprue, I didn't say a single pose would be better.
Not to mention, many gamers interested in zombies enjoy the prospect of building and personalizing their horde. That's one of the appeals of modelling zombies in the first place.
Good point again, but I think you're in the minority as can be evidenced by the threads on forums by people overjoyed that Zombuies (tm) game pieces can be used as 28mm figures (just, if you squint and put your aesthetic filter on hold). Whilst I applaud the enthusiasm and skill of people who produce such work I doubt they're the market Wargames Factory are aiming for. They want bulk sales to recover the cost of the massively expensive molding cost (far more than the set up costs for metal as you know) which is why they make rank and file figures. And more bulk sales to then go on and make money.
If you like converting figures and plastic is easier to work with than metal as you say then buying a single piece plastic zombie instead of a metal one is still a better option for you isn't it?
Anyway matakishi, I hope this is not taken as a flame (which it isn't) but as a view from the other side of the fence (which it is). As a guy who lurks here everyday, I am an appreciator of your work and contributions to this community.
JET
I don't think it's a flame why would I? You agreed with my main point, plastic doesn't have to equal rubbish. You can say whatever you like and present it here the same as the rest of us.
Once again, these 'figures' are crap because:
They are badly proportioned- no excuse for this
The separate parts don't look like they go together with each other- when does 'interchangable' stop becoming a benefit and become a compromise on quality?
In response to all the feedback received Wargames Factory have released new pictures that are better proportioned and the figure looks like its parts belong together.
Result.
If, on the other hand, everybody sat around looking at the dire first pictures and decided they weren't very nice but they wouldn't say anything because WF were doing them some sort of favour and anyway, a few hours with greenstuff and a knife would sort it all out, then the first crappy pics would have been made and nobody would have been happy. Wargames Factory wouldn't have sold many and then they may well have rethought their idea of doing what their customers asked for and gone back to giving you what they decided you wanted instead.
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I actually think the second round of photographs have shown much improvement in the figure design. They now look more realistic and not as cartoonish as the GW plastic zombies.
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I mst admit I'm positively surprised by the models. I just wonder why they have holes in their eyeballs.
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I personally am getting more enthusiastic about this project, in the new pics they do look very useable. I am also in favour of multipart because despite what Matakishi says it's less work to assemble a multi-part model than it is to convert a single-part model (or at least reposition the arms).
As an aside, anyone who thinks it's ok to lavish time and greenstuff on a plastic figure just to make it passable as a wargaming figure, we're not talking about turning it into a character here, just make it fit for its intended purpose, needs their head examining
Why? I don't know about you but I enjoy toying with conversions and putty to alter my models and make them table-top worthy. I do it for metals so why would plastics be any different? Also, you seem to be forgetting that there are people in wargaming that have less money to spend and more time on their hands, to whom the prospect of cheap models that may take a bit more work might actually be a good thing (why else would Revell kits still sell while you can buy the same vehicle as a ready-made die-cast?).
On topic of the models, they look a lot better but I can see there are some parts in there that can't be moulded and I think it might be something for the sculptor to take into account, I don't really want to have to work away a lof ot undercuts or lacking detail. As for the eyes, the holes may make for easier painting but it's probably better to not have the holes in them so you could paint them as 'blind' eyes.
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but the join for the legs to the torsos looks completely wrong... all the undead made sure they tucked their shirts in before the left the house? and the skeletal one somehow has enough flesh below the waist line to keep his kegs up...
doing the legs/torsos as one unit with variable arms and heads would make more sense (ala the poor Zulu War British - but you don't have the problem of them trying to hold weapons properly)- especially with a female zombie and the skeletal one...
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Personally I don't understand the hate-fest for these models, I've seen people on these forums be excited by much much worse models. (I also don't understand why anyone would want a male only zombie sprue for that matter...) And these are pretty decent zombies.
Besides these aren't close to being finished yet. I'm guessing in their excitement that their program had a hit so quickly that they wanted to rush out some renders before they were really ready. It's unfortunate because it seems like, true to form, people are rushing right the hell to judgement. (I'm especially surprised at Matakishi's bile.)
Instead of complaining here guys, why don't you go to their forums and put in your feedback if it's really that appalling to you.
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Personally I don't understand the hate-fest for these models, I've seen people on these forums be excited by much much worse models. (I also don't understand why anyone would want a male only zombie sprue for that matter...) And these are pretty decent zombies.
Besides these aren't close to being finished yet. I'm guessing in their excitement that their program had a hit so quickly that they wanted to rush out some renders before they were really ready. It's unfortunate because it seems like, true to form, people are rushing right the hell to judgement. (I'm especially surprised at Matakishi's bile.)
Instead of complaining here guys, why don't you go to their forums and put in your feedback if it's really that appalling to you.
No thanks, they sell what they want and i buy what i want.. dont like em, that simple
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Dude, the entire point of the line is to make what people want. If you're not participating you can't complain. :)
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I don't think that Matakishi is/was on some sort of mission to attack the company in question, nor would i describe his posts as "bile".
I'd agree with the view, that we can either say nice things (or nothing) about a product that is substandard, and then not buy it, or come out and say what we think - Paul did that (as did I and a number of others, on various forums) and WF have responded, and to their credit made changes which IMHO will result in a better product.
Heads more in proportion to the bodies, than the first set of images, a single gender for all the zombies on the first sprue, and a similar state of decomposition will make it easier to swop pieces between models - whether they are separate torsos/legs or not.
If this results in better sales, then WF will probably consider a second sprue, as Howard mentioned with women/children/dogs.
I've no axe to grind - far from it - if anyone around here wants another source of "fresh corpses" its me, but to fork out a chunk of money (yes its $1 a mini, but i'd want lots) i'd want a product that was usable - if WF deliver that, then i'll buy in bulk.
:)
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did you say $1 per mini :o hahaha.. can't complain hahahaha oh please
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Bile?
Some of you are having a problem understanding what I wrote.
If you think the 'figures' in the first photos were fine then by all means go and buy them. If you think the 'figures' in the later pictures are better then that's because people, including me, said we didn't like the originals, and also said why we didn't like them. If we all behaved like you and bought the crap ones that's all that would ever be made and you'd never even get to see the second ones.
I have every right to tell a company that releases photos of a work in progress why I don't like them and to say what changes would make me like them.
You can do the same. It's natural that different people will want different things from a range of models. The manufacturer can look at all the responses and make an informed decision on how to procede.
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I think we must accept that whatever one thinks of the eventual quality of these minis, people who want to buy, build, and paint them are no stupider than any other miniature hobbyist.
Consider:
My point was that people seem happy to buy a substandard product so that they can spend their own time, money and resources to make it do what it was supposed to do in the first place. I think that's stupid.
Well, that's exactly why I run a miniature painting studio. For people who don't want to spend their own time, money, and resources on trying to turn pewter and plastic bits into painted minis.
Taking unfinished products and adding value ourselves, is precisely the point of what we do.
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"money" are you saying you do it for free ::)
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Consider:
My point was that people seem happy to buy a substandard product so that they can spend their own time, money and resources to make it do what it was supposed to do in the first place. I think that's stupid.
Well, that's exactly why I run a miniature painting studio. For people who don't want to spend their own time, money, and resources on trying to turn pewter and plastic bits into painted minis.
Taking unfinished products and adding value ourselves, is precisely the point of what we do.
If you're going to quote me you should at least read what I wrote. I've highlighted the relevent bits. painting figures isn't the issue, sculpting parts of them because they're missing, miscast, out of proportion, don't fit, look wrong etc- is. Accepting poor substandard miniatures like the original posted pictures and expecting to have to modify them yourself just to get them up to an acceptable standard before you can even begin to paint them is not something that should be encouraged in my opinion.
I don't believe that if I sent you some figures to be painted and said that I wanted you to sculpt some facial detail on them first because it was missing and sculpt some bulk onto the shoulders because the arms don't fit the torso properly that you wouldn't charge me extra. And yet, according to you and others we should all accept that this is a normal part of, what? Figure preparation? And this is ok because...why? The original figures are cheap so you expect it? How cheap are they once you've used glue, greenstuff and time to get them to an acceptable standard?
Far better to buy properly sculpted figures in the first place. I stand by my first statement.
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Consider:
My point was that people seem happy to buy a substandard product so that they can spend their own time, money and resources to make it do what it was supposed to do in the first place. I think that's stupid.
Well, that's exactly why I run a miniature painting studio. For people who don't want to spend their own time, money, and resources on trying to turn pewter and plastic bits into painted minis.
Taking unfinished products and adding value ourselves, is precisely the point of what we do.
If you're going to quote me you should at least read what I wrote. I've highlighted the relevent bits. painting figures isn't the issue, sculpting parts of them because they're missing, miscast, out of proportion, don't fit, look wrong etc- is. Accepting poor substandard miniatures like the original posted pictures and expecting to have to modify them yourself just to get them up to an acceptable standard before you can even begin to paint them is not something that should be encouraged in my opinion.
I don't believe that if I sent you some figures to be painted and said that I wanted you to sculpt some facial detail on them first because it was missing and sculpt some bulk onto the shoulders because the arms don't fit the torso properly that you wouldn't charge me extra. And yet, according to you and others we should all accept that this is a normal part of, what? Figure preparation? And this is ok because...why? The original figures are cheap so you expect it? How cheap are they once you've used glue, greenstuff and time to get them to an acceptable standard?
Far better to buy properly sculpted figures in the first place. I stand by my first statement.
Lets just hope that the critiques from here, frothers and the feedback directly given to the WGF forum are taken onboard...last thing I want to see is a great idea poorly executed. This is supposed to be a directly controlled by the masses product so Wargames Factory listen up:
i) stretch the proportions
ii) Don't go for GW-esque Jazz hand zombies
iii) Don't rely on the computery rendering wow factor and finish the sculpting job properly.
iv) Do make modern zeds that will fit in with the mix found in every modern city and lets have some girls too!
Worst comes to the worst I'll West wind head a good few but would expect to paint and move on really as they will be for bulking up the numbers
The Commander
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Spot on Commander :)
It appears that the first release will concentrate on male zombies with a 'freshly dead' look, thus, I hope, allowing the bits to look like they belong together a little more. This is promising.
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:)
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I agree the above photos are not promising...but the other link is much more so.
(http://www.wargamesfactory.com/Images/zombies_render4.jpg)
I realize that's a computer render, but this is what I want....some generic zeds that can be turned into a horde.
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I agree the above photos are not promising...but the other link is much more so.
(http://www.wargamesfactory.com/Images/zombies_render4.jpg)
I realize that's a computer render, but this is what I want....some generic zeds that can be turned into a horde.
This is the one I saw and me thinks they are canny
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Can't say I'm overly impressed so far ( although those heads look pretty good).
It would be nice to see some "Actual" built up minis rather than the computer generated mush.
If nothing else I could find use for some of the parts. A lot of my minis are conversions and having some spare "bits" would cut down on sculpting ( getting lazy in my old age).
PM
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Can't say I'm overly impressed so far ( although those heads look pretty good).
It would be nice to see some "Actual" built up minis rather than the computer generated mush.
If nothing else I could find use for some of the parts. A lot of my minis are conversions and having some spare "bits" would cut down on sculpting ( getting lazy in my old age).
PM
Bloody hell! Knew that the undead would wake you from your unearthly slumber!
:D
So....what you got new to show us?
The Commander
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My point is, our "hobby" is simply completing and adding value to unfinished goods that manufacturer's make. No one wants a box of sprues. They want zombie hordes. We're just a very small group of people who think doing that sort of thing is really cool.
Ultimately, there is no difference between working on these models or working better models, except, fair enough, these ones are taking the piss a bit.
Post moderated for trolling. Please observe forum rules when you post- Moderator.
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Alright everyone STOPPPPPP this is getting bitchy and cragging on arguements. Lets all agree that we have our own opinions on these and leave the thread until they are released