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Miniatures Adventure => Age of Myths, Gods and Empires => Topic started by: Mad Doc Morris on March 28, 2016, 12:01:27 PM

Title: SAGA: Aetius & Arthur – new rules for the Late Roman period
Post by: Mad Doc Morris on March 28, 2016, 12:01:27 PM
While Gripping Beast is preparing the ground with their latest plastic set, Studio Tomahawk have announced SAGA: Invasions [edit: changed to SAGA: Aetius & Arthur] on their blog (original post here (http://blog.studio-tomahawk.com/2016/03/saga-invasions_27.html)).

Quote
Hello, Happy Easter.

The lack of new publications of the previous months was due to the intense activity in theTomahawk tipee, devoted to a new and important chapter in the history of Saga.

With The Crescent & The Cross we have explored the destinies of the Crusaders sailing to the Holy Land and the fight of their Muslim enemies, determined to fight with bravery the western invaders. With the new Saga book, we will go back in time, and look at the very beginning of the Dark Ages.

Imagine 6 new factions, depicting the Britons, The Saxon Invaders, the Romans, the Huns, the Goths and the Picts. To lead them into battle, larger than life characters as Aetius, Attila, Arthur or Vortigern. A time when the Roman frontiers were hammered by the flow of barbaric invaders. A time when the civilisation of the past was abour to be superceded by a new one.

New factions, new mercenaries to join your warband, a campaign system and a large figure range are all planned.
The last round of intensive playtest have been done some days ago by our devoted beta-testers. They tried to break the Battleboards, find any loophole in the 6 new scenarios and played the campaign, defending a border garrison against the barbarians.  

Saga : Invasions has now entered the next step, its production.

When will it be released are you asking? Not before the end of the year. It is in the hands of the gods now...

8-)

Admittedly, I'm no great fan of SAGA, yet I'm a sucker for all things (Late) Roman, so possibly will give it a try. However, I find the mix of armies involved quite random. The differentiation of 'factions', in particular for the British Isles, is highly artificial anyway. But, seriously, when did Britons, Picts and Saxons encounter Huns or Goths? Not to mention that the Huns arriving in the West were pretty much an Ostrogothic force… ::)
Well, well, wait and see.
Title: Re: SAGA: Invasions – new rules for the Late Roman period
Post by: moiterei_1984 on March 28, 2016, 12:11:16 PM
Looks like this'll be the typical anglo-centric world view again. Nothing wrong with catering for the bigger audience but as the Doc already pointed out it's a rather odd mix. Would have preferred to have Romans, Vandals, Goths, Huns, Franks and maybe even Sassanids for a main book. One could have dealt with the island in a supplement well enough. That said I'll still have a look and if it's just to see if one can turn those island dweller batteboards into proper mainland european germanic tribes  ;)
Title: Re: SAGA: Invasions – new rules for the Late Roman period
Post by: delbruck on March 28, 2016, 02:04:24 PM
Nice to see Late Romans & all, but very disappointed that we don't have any Sassanids.

I wonder if this means GB plans to do plastic Huns?
Title: Re: SAGA: Invasions – new rules for the Late Roman period
Post by: Sir_Theo on March 28, 2016, 02:37:55 PM
 With Huns and Goths featuring it's not particularly Anglo centric? Maybe there will be expansions to come?
Title: Re: SAGA: Invasions – new rules for the Late Roman period
Post by: ayak333 on March 28, 2016, 04:53:19 PM
I can't wait for this set! It's difficult getting the non Saga Gripping Beast ranges here in the States, so when this comes out, more GB figures will likely be available here! I think it possible there will be further supplements that include franks and Sassanids, maybe some alemmanni and Vandals as well. I can not freakin wait!
Title: Re: SAGA: Invasions – new rules for the Late Roman period
Post by: DivisMal on March 28, 2016, 04:56:50 PM
I must add to what has been said so far. This is a rather odd collection of "factions", that would have better split into different volumes. And it's a shame, there is no near eastern army featured!
Title: Re: SAGA: Invasions – new rules for the Late Roman period
Post by: LeadAsbestos on March 28, 2016, 06:17:20 PM
Personally, I'll be playing Britain only, so to hell with the other factions!  ;)
Title: Re: SAGA: Invasions – new rules for the Late Roman period
Post by: moiterei_1984 on March 28, 2016, 06:19:33 PM
With Huns and Goths featuring it's not particularly Anglo centric? Maybe there will be expansions to come?
Ah well, but with Picts, Britons and Saxons (the latter probably designed to represent the ones fighting in Britain) it's already half the factions which didn't play any part at all in the events that occured in mainland europe. And that's where the bulk of the empire was, I was led to believe;)
Title: Re: SAGA: Invasions – new rules for the Late Roman period
Post by: guitarheroandy on March 28, 2016, 06:35:00 PM
Truth to tell, I've been waiting for this since Saga first came out. Slightly odd mix of factions, perhaps, but I'll still give it a look when it comes out. Might even get me playing more regularly...
Title: Re: SAGA: Invasions – new rules for the Late Roman period
Post by: v_lazy_dragon on March 28, 2016, 07:09:27 PM
Definitely looking forward to this. Any idea if it is an expansion of the standard Saga rules or a stand alone book (which I believe Cross and Crescent was?)

Agreed on the strange mix of factions - I  guess one could proxy 'Anglo-saxons' as continental Saxons, and (Romano-)Britons as continental post-Roman states... but it still seems strange. I'm with the general consensus that I would have preferred a greater focus on the continent in this book and a seperate volume dealing with Britain later...
Title: Re: SAGA: Invasions – new rules for the Late Roman period
Post by: Mad Doc Morris on March 28, 2016, 07:42:38 PM
Any idea if it is an expansion of the standard Saga rules or a stand alone book (which I believe Cross and Crescent was?)

Crescent & Cross is a standalone product indeed, and seemingly Invasions will be as well.

Agreed on the strange mix of factions - I  guess one could proxy 'Anglo-saxons' as continental Saxons, and (Romano-)Britons as continental post-Roman states

Unfortunately, there were no continental Saxons. ;) But there's certainly potential for a count-as approach. Like said, there's actually very little evidence to tell those 'factions' apart anyway.
Title: Re: SAGA: Invasions – new rules for the Late Roman period
Post by: area23 on March 28, 2016, 09:45:47 PM
Judging from archeological evidence most late roman era germanic tribes looked much the same apart from small decorations with the most elaborate jewelry and weapons probably only available to warlords and their followers. With late romans, saxons, huns and goths covered you can probably create any contemporary warband west of Adrianople. Apart from Franks perhaps who are supposed to have had funny haircuts.
Title: Re: SAGA: Invasions – new rules for the Late Roman period
Post by: AWu on March 28, 2016, 10:40:19 PM
Lack of Sassanians is a let down.. But I still hope for them in expansion :(

Brittaniocentrism is a thing I got used to in wargaming..
I am no surprised that there is no Slavic faction but 6 (?) British :)

So I expected it being Britain only, so Huns and Goths are both welcome surprises!!
Title: Re: SAGA: Invasions – new rules for the Late Roman period
Post by: Legiox217 on March 29, 2016, 01:41:21 AM
This looks awesome. I see it says "not before the end of this year." That sounds like too long considering it's already done and about to be in production. Perhaps something was lost in translation ? I suppose early next year wouldn't be TOO far away, but I guess I'm just too excited I'm being hopeful.
Title: Re: SAGA: Invasions – new rules for the Late Roman period
Post by: Whitwort Stormbringer on March 29, 2016, 04:35:15 AM
Hmm, interesting.  I don't own Crescent & Cross yet, and would probably prioritize that, but I might be tempted enough to get this down the road. The Anglocentrism doesn't really bother me, especially since the first SAGA book seemed to lean heavily on a period of cultural upheaval and invasions in the British Isles as well.  Takes a similar theme, which suits the scale of warband-level conflict in SAGA well, and just steps back several centuries.

I wouldn't be surprise if more continental and near-Eastern factions showed up in books down the road.
Title: Re: SAGA: Invasions – new rules for the Late Roman period
Post by: FierceKitty on March 29, 2016, 02:51:37 PM
It's another case of a period that's overdone just because of publicity from extraneous causes, isn't it? King Arthur, and ignore everything else in the dark ages and late ancient arena; Napoleonic, at the expense of the far more important SYW; FPW, and disregard every other contemporary conflict....
Title: Re: SAGA: Invasions – new rules for the Late Roman period
Post by: area23 on March 29, 2016, 03:22:36 PM
It has probably to do with sales. I'm sure Gripping Beast know very well which dark ages armies sell well and which not so much?

All the companies that do Dark Ages ranges do basically the same armies. Apparently it's what the public wants.
Title: Re: SAGA: Invasions – new rules for the Late Roman period
Post by: Mad Doc Morris on March 29, 2016, 03:37:21 PM
Importance is in the eye of the beholder, so let's not argue about that. ;)
Truth to be told, our British friends have managed to wrap their past into exciting stories. It also appears largely self-contained, neatly framed by natural boundaries. You can easily identify yourself with that – or at least develop a sense for being different. Borders and identities in mainland Europe may appear blurred in contrast. There's no unifying idea of our past, therefore less black and white but a lot of grey.
That's not to say, we have no exciting histories to be told. But they're probably less suited to the (predominantly) heroic style of current wargaming, which, like most of popular history, is stuck in 19th century narrative patterns and stereotypes. I like that for a good romp, but let's not take it too seriously.
Title: Re: SAGA: Invasions – new rules for the Late Roman period
Post by: moiterei_1984 on March 29, 2016, 06:35:59 PM
Well, I'd say the Song of the Nibelungs for example should be perfectly suited for adaption in Saga as well... Hagen von Tronje and friends  8)
Title: Re: SAGA: Invasions – new rules for the Late Roman period
Post by: Captain Blood on March 29, 2016, 07:36:51 PM
Truth to tell, I've been waiting for this since Saga first came out. Slightly odd mix of factions, perhaps, but I'll still give it a look when it comes out. Might even get me playing more regularly...

Finally!
Me too. Exactly the same feelings on it.
Title: Re: SAGA: Invasions – new rules for the Late Roman period
Post by: NurgleHH on March 29, 2016, 07:41:56 PM
I wonder if they take it serious with saga in the moment. Their new project - Congo - seems to be more important. For us in Germany we are in the lucky position, that stronghold-terrain with the German translation take it really serious. Only some new army-list would be not enough.
Title: Re: SAGA: Invasions – new rules for the Late Roman period
Post by: armchairgeneral on March 29, 2016, 08:54:29 PM
Finally!
Me too. Exactly the same feelings on it.

Just getting into Saga. When I leant the game I thought, with the feel of it, Arthurian would be its natural home so this great news. Don't quite see why it will be so long before it comes out.
Title: Re: SAGA: Invasions – new rules for the Late Roman period
Post by: WillieB on March 30, 2016, 08:48:21 AM
Probably biased as Late Romans is my absolutely favoured period but I'm sure this will become a great hit.
Always felt that SAGA and the late Roman/Arthurian period were simply made for each other.

And who knows what wonderful figure ranges will appear because of this!
Title: Re: SAGA: Invasions – new rules for the Late Roman period
Post by: Captain Blood on March 30, 2016, 09:09:42 AM
Well this has been promised almost since Saga first appeared, but I had almost given up hope of it ever appearing. My Saxon army is ready. Better crack on with the Arthurians I guess!
Wonder if there will be new dice. I guess the Romano -Brits could use the Celtic dice and the Germanic invaders the later Saxon dice? But I'm feeling they won't miss the moneyspinning opportunity of producing some Roman dice...
Title: Re: SAGA: Invasions – new rules for the Late Roman period
Post by: Poiter50 on March 30, 2016, 09:12:45 AM
Roman Dice - drool!  ;)

Probably biased as Late Romans is my absolutely favoured period but I'm sure this will become a great hit.
Always felt that SAGA and the late Roman/Arthurian period were simply made for each other.

And who knows what wonderful figure ranges will appear because of this!
Title: Re: SAGA: Invasions – new rules for the Late Roman period
Post by: Studio Tomahawk on March 30, 2016, 11:14:42 AM
Hi all,

As there were quite a lot of replies and heated discussions about our forthcoming supplement for Saga, I thought it might be helpful to highlight our intentions with this book.

Some have noted that it has always been our intent to produce a book and a set of factions for the Arthurian period. Saga takes its roots in the heroic deeds and stories of larger than life characters and the Arthurian fits the bill!

But we wanted also to expand it beyond the boundaries of the British Isles, and tell the story of the Roman civilisation being besieged and struggling against the so-called "barbarians". Hence the inclusion of the Romans (late romans in wargaming terms), the Huns and the Goths. They also offer their share of heroes, with Aetius, Attila, Theodoric and quite a few others. In the same way as with Crescent & Cross and the crusades in the Holy Land and in Spain, you have two sets of factions for two distinct geographic areas: The Britons facing their Picts and Saxon ennemies, and the Romans and their Hunnic and Gothic foes (and there are actually quite a lot a variant factions in the book, to present other protagonists of this period, using existing boards but with new faction rules).

So basically, Invasion is a setting that depicts the hopeless struggle of the remnants of the Roman Empire. The fall of the west simply said.

For the lack of Sassanids, it is basically a matter of focus. We wanted to stay focussed on the Western half of the Empire for this period as opening the East would have added quite a lot other factions to the list, and 6 factions is the maximum we can fit in a book. It doesn't mean that the Persians (and their nellies!) won't appear one day  but not in that one. 

For the question of the time it took to get this book ready (which isn't actually the case right now, though we are progressing), all I can say that the team working on Invasion has started the design work some 2 years ago. It actually takes a painfully long time to get a Saga supplement done, and much of this time is devoted to playtesting the factions, the interaction between them and balancing out everything. We do not claim this balance to be perfect, but it is something that we consider as really vital to keep the game healthy. Hence the long time, especially if you consider that all people working with ST do that on their spare time, with no full-time employee.

Regarding the question about the lack of love for Saga and the focus on Congo, all I can say is that the teams behind Saga and Congo are actually not the same, and the development of one has no impact on the development on the other. We have more stuff in the pipeline for Saga, we had a slow start after Crescent & Cross as we had new people taking Saga in charge, but now everything is back on track!

As for the commercial aspect all I can say is nobody at Studio Tomahawk is working on a full-time basis, and we produce basically what we want to play. If it sells well, we're happy fews. If it doesn't, we can live with it. We are first and foremost gamers ourselves!

Thanks for all the interest for this book.
Title: Re: SAGA: Invasions – new rules for the Late Roman period
Post by: Captain Blood on April 01, 2016, 10:49:38 AM
Thanks for taking the time to explain that, Studio Tomahawk. Always good to hear it 'from the horse's mouth'  :)

Thanks for coming onto LAF too. I hope you'll continue to keep the community here up to date with further developments.
Title: Re: SAGA: Invasions – new rules for the Late Roman period
Post by: Nord on April 01, 2016, 01:03:21 PM
Anybody point me to some Picts? I have seen the Foundry figures, not a fan. I quite like the Tanatus stuff but probably not enough to make a Saga warband. What are my options?
Title: Re: SAGA: Invasions – new rules for the Late Roman period
Post by: Captain Blood on April 01, 2016, 01:54:59 PM
Gripping Beast? Didn't they have Picts in their original (Patten-sculpted) ranges?
Title: Re: SAGA: Invasions – new rules for the Late Roman period
Post by: Eric the Shed on April 01, 2016, 02:10:03 PM
excellent stuff...

bought crescent and cross ...painted the figures and yet to play the game >:(

suspect i'll buy this put together a late roman army and watch the dust build ;)
Title: Re: SAGA: Invasions – new rules for the Late Roman period
Post by: FierceKitty on April 01, 2016, 02:29:55 PM
Anybody point me to some Picts? I have seen the Foundry figures, not a fan. I quite like the Tanatus stuff but probably not enough to make a Saga warband. What are my options?

Pendraken have made some recently.
Title: Re: SAGA: Invasions – new rules for the Late Roman period
Post by: LeadLust on April 02, 2016, 05:08:43 AM
Anybody point me to some Picts? I have seen the Foundry figures, not a fan. I quite like the Tanatus stuff but probably not enough to make a Saga warband. What are my options?

Black Tree Design's Picts are well sculpted (website pictures do not do them justice) and inexpensive when purchased during one of their 25-40% off sales.  They mix fairly well with both Gripping Beast and Newline Designs.  Crusader Miniatures Mounted Scots Warriors are also useful for light cavalry.
Title: Re: SAGA: Invasions – new rules for the Late Roman period
Post by: Lt. Hazel on April 02, 2016, 11:01:41 AM
I like SAGA, I will buy the New Book for sure. This will be the first Time I will have enough painted miniatures allowing me to Field several forces for the period. I think the Factions covered in the book are OK, I always Adapted the boards to my Needs And will do it with the new ones too. Moiterei is right, the Nibelungen SAGA would be great to Play.
Plus all the eye candy that I really enjoyed with C&C... :)
Title: Re: SAGA: Invasions – new rules for the Late Roman period
Post by: WillieB on April 02, 2016, 03:57:23 PM
Anybody point me to some Picts? I have seen the Foundry figures, not a fan. I quite like the Tanatus stuff but probably not enough to make a Saga warband. What are my options?

Gripping Beast has some nice Picts but I think the majority aren't Patten sculpts.
http://www.grippingbeast.co.uk/The_Picts--category--78.html
Curteys is starting on a new range op Picts. I'll be checking them out a Salute in two weeks.
http://curteysminiatures.co.uk/product-category/arthurian/picts/pict-supplement-packs/

Newline design has a good range of Picts. Simple but very well cast figures.
http://newlinedesigns.co.uk/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=122_123_126

Black Tree Designs has an often overlooked but really great line of Picts.
http://eoeorbisuk.com/collections/ancient/ancient-range_picts

The Tanatos Picts are indeed very nice but alas don't fit in with any of the above ranges which are at least  compatible with each other.


Title: Re: SAGA: Invasions – new rules for the Late Roman period
Post by: JW. Akers on April 04, 2016, 12:04:33 PM
Gripping Beast? Didn't they have Picts in their original (Patten-sculpted) ranges?

Yep. They were coded as "Cel" for Celts. I have quite a few of them due to my Britannocentrism. ;). Some of them have reappeared in GBs' Norse Gael range.
Title: Re: SAGA: Invasions – new rules for the Late Roman period
Post by: georgec on April 05, 2016, 08:36:43 AM
Westwind Productions have a few packs too and some very useful separate heads.

http://www.westwindproductions.co.uk/index.php?route=product/category&path=69_147

The Foundry Picts fit in with the 'old' Gripping Beast figures but both are a little 'dainty' compared to the other ranges. 
Title: Re: SAGA: Invasions – new rules for the Late Roman period
Post by: Harry Faversham on April 05, 2016, 09:07:25 AM
:) Thanks for the link GC, I've just ordered King Arthur!  :)
Title: Re: SAGA: Invasions – new rules for the Late Roman period
Post by: axabrax on April 05, 2016, 03:01:25 PM
Since when are Goths and Huns, or Romans for that matter, Anglo-centric? They could've just done an Arthurian supplement and then the complaint would probably be "why no Huns and Goths?"  ;)


Looks like this'll be the typical anglo-centric world view again. Nothing wrong with catering for the bigger audience but as the Doc already pointed out it's a rather odd mix. Would have preferred to have Romans, Vandals, Goths, Huns, Franks and maybe even Sassanids for a main book. One could have dealt with the island in a supplement well enough. That said I'll still have a look and if it's just to see if one can turn those island dweller batteboards into proper mainland european germanic tribes  ;)
Title: Re: SAGA: Invasions – new rules for the Late Roman period
Post by: RAD on April 06, 2016, 07:44:16 AM
I'd like some day to see a set of rules with merovingian franks and proper figures to go with it.

Clovis is contemporary to the Arthurian era and franks fought post roman britons, amongst many others, on the continent in Britanny.

They are scarcely covered in rules and figures are few, which i regret since they were distinctively looking and  and of major importance at that time...
Title: Re: SAGA: Invasions – new rules for the Late Roman period
Post by: SteveBurt on April 06, 2016, 03:31:29 PM
Merovingian Franks are covered by regular Saga; they are one of the options for the Frank faction
(You can also field Carolignian or Capetian Franks).
Title: Re: SAGA: Invasions – new rules for the Late Roman period
Post by: WillieB on April 06, 2016, 11:55:07 PM
I'd like some day to see a set of rules with merovingian franks and proper figures to go with it.

Clovis is contemporary to the Arthurian era and franks fought post roman britons, amongst many others, on the continent in Britanny.

They are scarcely covered in rules and figures are few, which i regret since they were distinctively looking and  and of major importance at that time...

Absolutely agree! Funny thing is Clovis fought first together with, later against  'the Roman governor' , later 'Roman King' Syagrius in the Province Belgica II years after the Western Roman ended in 476 AD.
Title: Re: SAGA: Invasions – new rules for the Late Roman period
Post by: ayak333 on April 08, 2016, 04:01:26 AM
Any word if the gothic/germanic plastics will be previewed at salute?
Title: Re: SAGA: Invasions – new rules for the Late Roman period
Post by: Legiox217 on April 13, 2016, 03:51:16 PM
Can't wait for this either! Been in a late Roman mood. The only choice I have to make is to order Footsore Minis or wait and see if Gripping Beast does all new sculpts for these 6 new factions (and then see which I prefer).
Title: Re: SAGA: Invasions – new rules for the Late Roman period
Post by: cram on April 17, 2016, 09:24:26 AM
Just became aware of this, very exciting news!! Not least because it means lots of new figures to be released, I'm especially looking forward to the Goths in both plastic and metal!
Title: Re: SAGA: Invasions – new rules for the Late Roman period
Post by: nikephorous on April 23, 2016, 12:52:48 AM
For me this has come far too late. I got into SAGA in the pre-order stage on the promise that Arthurian and Late Roman would be hard on the heels of the Viking Age.
Now here we are so many years later and they are telling us we are still a year off.
Horse,bolted, stable.... well you get the idea.
I am sure that ST made many people happy when they went for the Crusades. I was not one of them.
For me the introduction of massive imbalance in the game, silly ideas to placate people who are clearly mistaking Hollywood for historical sources and the terrible gamesmanship that is now too common in the game had me sell my SAGA collection long ago.
A good idea that went horribly wrong.
Title: Re: SAGA: Invasions – new rules for the Late Roman period
Post by: Argonor on May 02, 2016, 05:44:37 AM
Well, I'll probably get it, if not for anything else than having the comple set of SAGA rules. I am probably not going to stray into yet another period...  ::)
Title: Re: SAGA: Invasions – new rules for the Late Roman period
Post by: Mad Doc Morris on May 02, 2016, 08:37:35 AM
Gentlemen, I don't like to remove posts at all, but the discussion was really going astray. LAF's clearly not the place to discuss politics, not even covertly by guessing what 'kind of people' prefer certain periods or rulesets.
So, back to topic.
Title: Re: SAGA: Invasions – new rules for the Late Roman period
Post by: LeadAsbestos on May 07, 2016, 03:29:23 PM
I've been waiting patiently for the SAGA Arthur, and it is finally coming! :D

I'm excited. If it isn't exactly what I had hoped for, well... Who cares!? I'll give it a try and make changes if I need to.

This and the Viking-era campaign book have gotten me very excited abt SAGA again.
Title: Re: SAGA: Invasions – new rules for the Late Roman period
Post by: Axebreaker on May 08, 2016, 05:18:08 PM
@Nikephorous

You could have used the Vikings board as Early Saxons and the Anglo Saxons board as Late Romans. Another option is trying out Dux Brittanirum by Two Fat Lardies that is dedicated to the Arthurian period which has been out for quite some time(relatively speaking).

Christopher
Title: Re: SAGA: Invasions – new rules for the Late Roman period
Post by: Pax on August 15, 2016, 08:23:00 AM
Sorry to semi necropost, seeing as it's now August and this thread is from a couple of months ago.

I'm very excited to finally play Romano British in SAGA, so excited that I want to start a small army already. Is there any word yet what a Romano British army would need to play?

I'm imagining a 4 point starting army, so with 1 warlord: 4 hearthguards, and 1x 8 warriors and 2x 12 levy? But do they get horses? Missiles?
Title: Re: SAGA: Invasions – new rules for the Late Roman period
Post by: guitarheroandy on August 16, 2016, 05:50:50 PM
Well, I obviously don't know what the Saga rules will allow for Romano-Brits, but I suspect that 2 units of levy would be pushing it as levy in most of the original lists are skirmishers, although I suppose they might have militia spearman 'pedyt' types for Romano British (I believe they already do that for Saxon ceorls? I haven't played Saga in so long I've forgotten...)

Are you going for plastics or metals? If the former, starting with a box of Gripping Beast plastic Late Romans would be good as you'd have plenty of options for guard, warriors and levy. Me, if I were starting now ahead of the rules' publication, I'd do 1 x 4 guards, 2 x 8 warriors with spear and 12 levy with bow - that would probably do you for late Romans too! You could always add cavalry later on and other models depending on what's allowed and what's not and what you want your force to look like.

Luckily for me, I have over 200 28mm Late Roman/Arthurian/Barbarian models already painted for WAB, etc, so I just need the rules and I'll be sorted for whatever combinations are allowed.  :D
Title: Re: SAGA: Invasions – new rules for the Late Roman period
Post by: axabrax on August 18, 2016, 05:42:44 PM
This. These guys are coming up with what they think will sell the best, and I think they're smart to do so. Saga is single-handedly responsible for bringing medieval period gaming into the mainstream whereas all of the "historically accurate" efforts of the past have not.  My Vikings languished for years and years until Saga came around and now I can't keep up with all of the games.  I think we should defer to their good judgment on this one.  I personally am excited for this book.

It has probably to do with sales. I'm sure Gripping Beast know very well which dark ages armies sell well and which not so much?

All the companies that do Dark Ages ranges do basically the same armies. Apparently it's what the public wants.

Title: Re: SAGA: Invasions – new rules for the Late Roman period
Post by: Legiox217 on September 23, 2016, 11:47:58 PM
I'm just curious about the 'Britons' faction. Is this essentially the Romano-British? Or more like a native british tribe?
I just bought some Footsore minis to prep for this expansion. I want to go Late Romans but make them interchangeable as Romano-British, if that is what the Britons are. Then I'll probably get the Picts coming out from Footsore and use them as Scots as well in Saga. Double bang for my buck!

Although those Goths look pretty beefy..
Title: Re: SAGA: Invasions – new rules for the Late Roman period
Post by: TXWargamer on October 07, 2016, 10:54:26 PM
Any news on a release date for this supplement?
Title: Re: SAGA: Invasions – new rules for the Late Roman period
Post by: Snirr on October 23, 2016, 05:40:46 PM
Studio Tomahawk has a very active Facebook page, where you can find some pictures from the new book. It's in french, but it looks a bit as if you need the other SAGA books to use that one. There are references to C&C in the options for the Huns.
https://m.facebook.com/studiotomahawk/
Title: Re: SAGA: Invasions – new rules for the Late Roman period
Post by: Captain Blood on October 23, 2016, 06:18:31 PM
The strange thing is, there seems to be virtually nothing about it on the official Saga forum... :?
Title: Re: SAGA: Invasions – new rules for the Late Roman period
Post by: WillieB on November 04, 2016, 08:26:30 PM
Available at Crisis tomorrow.

Aetius & Arthur Saga. + new (really nice!) purple dice)
I believe only 100 copies are available. Well, 99 to be exact :)
Title: Re: SAGA: Invasions – new rules for the Late Roman period
Post by: Captain Blood on November 04, 2016, 09:23:36 PM
Report please Willie, once you have your copy! (After you have had a tremendous day at your show, obviously :))
Title: Re: SAGA: Invasions – new rules for the Late Roman period
Post by: Dags on November 06, 2016, 08:56:52 PM
Got a copy (in English  :D) - will give impressions when I recover from Crisis  ;)
Title: Re: SAGA: Invasions – new rules for the Late Roman period
Post by: Captain Blood on November 06, 2016, 10:01:56 PM
Cheers Dags  :)
Title: Re: SAGA: Invasions – new rules for the Late Roman period
Post by: WillieB on November 07, 2016, 11:43:15 PM
Report please Willie, once you have your copy! (After you have had a tremendous day at your show, obviously :))

Well first impression is certainly favourable. Nicely produced 85 page hardback in a subtle purplish brown with a flaming Chi- ro on it. It is of course a supplement to the original Saga or preferably the revised edition in the Crescent and The Cross.

Beautifully illustrated with colour drawings and very nice pictures of 28mm figures. Mostly Footsore (ex- Musketeer) but I also spotted some Foundry, Gripping Beast and others.
There are six new battleboards included. Huns, Goths and Saxons all using the same dice, Picts and Romans and Britons. The latter two use the new purple dice.  But it doesn't end with 'just' these 6 factions. In the chapter Today's Friends are Tomorrow's Enemies it is explained how you can easily introduce the Salian Franks, Eastern Romans, Scotti (including the mysterious Attecotti) or the Welsh Art Clut/Goddoddin armies by simply altering a few things on already existing battleboards. Mercenaries of widely differing plumage are also included.

Now, while some of the faction seem to have some very interesting abilities that I'd love to try out, the real prize for me is the inclusion of several campaign options. I love SAGA but sometimes felt that there could be more to it than just a relatively quick standalone game. Well, now we have it.
Highly recommended!

Now where did I put all those Huns?

Title: Re: SAGA: Invasions – new rules for the Late Roman period
Post by: rokurota on November 08, 2016, 07:43:12 AM
85 pages, includes the basic rules?
Title: Re: SAGA: Invasions – new rules for the Late Roman period
Post by: WillieB on November 08, 2016, 09:37:27 AM
85 pages, includes the basic rules?

No, the basic rules are not included. You still need a copy of SAGA or preferably C&C;
Title: Re: SAGA: Invasions – new rules for the Late Roman period
Post by: rokurota on November 08, 2016, 10:01:38 AM
No, the basic rules are not included. You still need a copy of SAGA or preferably C&C;
Thank you.
Title: Re: SAGA: Invasions – new rules for the Late Roman period
Post by: Captain Blood on November 08, 2016, 12:12:54 PM
Thanks for the report Willie. I hope I can pick a copy up at 'Warfare' in a couple of weeks time.
Title: Re: SAGA: Aetius & Arthur – new rules for the Late Roman period
Post by: armchairgeneral on November 30, 2016, 10:44:48 PM
Wondering when these SAGA AoA rules will be available? They were supposed to be out end of November yet I haven't even seen them on pre-order yet.
Title: Re: SAGA: Aetius & Arthur – new rules for the Late Roman period
Post by: delbruck on December 02, 2016, 05:35:24 PM
Wargames Illustrated flip through

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8_46RYNPTAk (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8_46RYNPTAk)
Title: Re: SAGA: Aetius & Arthur – new rules for the Late Roman period
Post by: Captain Blood on December 02, 2016, 06:59:08 PM
I heard there were a few small translation issues and details that needed ironing out on the back of the initial test print run (which were sold at Crisis). Presumably those tweaks are being made before the package goes into full production. Suspect it will be a while...
Title: Re: SAGA: Aetius & Arthur – new rules for the Late Roman period
Post by: armchairgeneral on December 03, 2016, 03:25:18 PM
I heard there were a few small translation issues and details that needed ironing out on the back of the initial test print run (which were sold at Crisis). Presumably those tweaks are being made before the package goes into full production. Suspect it will be a while...

Thanks Captain. It was going to be a Christmas present to myself but doesn't sound like it will be available until the New Year  :( I shall have to think of something else which won't be hard  lol Tempted to get some Arthurian figures but just not sure which faction I will opt for.
Title: Re: SAGA: Aetius & Arthur – new rules for the Late Roman period
Post by: Coenus Scaldingus on December 04, 2016, 03:58:20 PM
Having gotten the book at Crisis (although still not actually read the entire thing!), I can confirm there certainly are a some typos and textual mistakes, although that's hardly new in SAGA. That said, I haven't seen anything so far that was unclear because of those mistakes; they merely make the book a bit less pretty than it could have been. Not sure if I had gotten the book already if a better version would indeed be released some time after, but ah well, at least I have it.

If you want to know any army specifics which may influence your choice armchairgeneral, feel free to ask away. That said, I bought a box of plastic late Romans alongside the book, and still haven't even decided whether to mainly use them as Romans or Britons...
Title: Re: SAGA: Aetius & Arthur – new rules for the Late Roman period
Post by: Bishop Cockthrottle on December 05, 2016, 12:26:08 PM
Having gotten the book at Crisis (although still not actually read the entire thing!), I can confirm there certainly are a some typos and textual mistakes, although that's hardly new in SAGA. That said, I haven't seen anything so far that was unclear because of those mistakes; they merely make the book a bit less pretty than it could have been. Not sure if I had gotten the book already if a better version would indeed be released some time after, but ah well, at least I have it.

If you want to know any army specifics which may influence your choice armchairgeneral, feel free to ask away. That said, I bought a box of plastic late Romans alongside the book, and still haven't even decided whether to mainly use them as Romans or Britons...

The Huns! Tell me about the Huns!!!!
Title: Re: SAGA: Aetius & Arthur – new rules for the Late Roman period
Post by: WillieB on December 05, 2016, 02:12:35 PM
The Huns! Tell me about the Huns!!!!

The Huns will be deadly adversaries!
Normal battle board with an activation pool ( 2 extra SAGA dice ) and an attack pool.( 1 or 2 extra attack dice)

As expected archery will be very important to them but perhaps surprisingly so is fatigue. With 'Panic' for example you can interrupt an enemy activation give 2 enemy units 2 extra fatigue or have them move only without any melee or shooting ability.
Or give an extra fatigue to ALL enemy units between two Hun Nobles no further than 'L' from each other with 'Encircle'

But IMHO 'Weak Point' will be the killer. Each time a Hunnish unit shoots or attacks it gets as many extra attack points as the enemy unit has fatigue points.
Title: Re: SAGA: Aetius & Arthur – new rules for the Late Roman period
Post by: Coenus Scaldingus on December 05, 2016, 05:04:10 PM
Indeed, the Huns are pretty much all about fighting when the enemy is tired and afraid. All but two of their abilities (I think) either have effects dependent on the enemy's Fatigue or add extra Fatigue. It will be interesting to see them played (or indeed play with them); depending on the enemy band you may have to focus on an enemy unit by giving them Fatigue and then hitting them with all your additional advantages, or see who's left weakened, then hit that part of the line. Unsurprisingly, the Huns are a a very fast army, with Warlord, Hearthguard and Warrior archers all on horseback. Levy are interesting too, either with bows, melee weapons or as some of the most miserable cavalry you will ever see, although representing allied (well, subjugated) vassals they are unable to use most of the board.
Title: Re: SAGA: Aetius & Arthur – new rules for the Late Roman period
Post by: armchairgeneral on December 05, 2016, 10:03:37 PM
If you want to know any army specifics which may influence your choice armchairgeneral, feel free to ask away. That said, I bought a box of plastic late Romans alongside the book, and still haven't even decided whether to mainly use them as Romans or Britons...

Thanks very much for the offer. To be honest I am interested in most of the factions but particularly the Romans, Britons and Saxons. Always felt the Arthurian period was best suited to Saga. Guess I will have to wait until the New Year. I understand the translation issue will delay things for a while so you are fortunate to get hold of an advanced copy.
Title: Re: SAGA: Aetius & Arthur – new rules for the Late Roman period
Post by: Coenus Scaldingus on December 06, 2016, 04:55:53 PM
The Saxons reminded me rather a lot of the Vikings. The warband doesn't have anything special (long-range missiles on Levy, regular melee infantry otherwise) and the board is relatively straightforward, albeit with some interesting options. For starters, they do not in fact have a normal combat pool, instead able to shed Fatigue in return for more attack dice for the enemy. Several other abilities have the reverse, giving Fatigue or automatic hits in return for hits taken. Overall, they like to charge forwards and hit stuff, choosing particular combats but with units working independent of each other or a greater strategy.

The Britons are, as they are thematically, the opposite. Warlord can be mounted, and if so, so can his elites; Levy with javelins or bows/slings. To represent how only the inspiring leaders rallied the remnants of Roman Britain, many of their abilities only work, or work better, if the units using them are near your warlord. That is, very near him.. or up to two companions he brings along, which function not unlike Harold Godwinson and his brothers. The Britons are a very defensive lot, able to use pretty much all the protective modifiers you can imagine: force attack re-rolls, ignore hits, gain defence dice, save hits on a lower value. All but one ability concerns the Warlord in some way or another, so positioning will be important, possibly guarding the flanks with mercenaries that can make no use of the abilities anyway.

Romans, finally, can also have mounted leaders and guards; furthermore their warriors may have bows while the levy could be melee oriented. Additionally, some levy can be traded in for a ballista, providing long-range armour piercing shots, although mostly reliable when shooting into a crowd. The board is largely dependent on their 'Impetus' value, so there will be some resource management. No choices (as Jomsvikings) or dependence on dice results, just some abilities that increase, and others that lower the value. Definitely one of the most strategic factions, as it's important to choose the order of activations to get the most out of your Impetus before it eventually recedes: you start with the full value, but most abilities drastically reduce it, while getting it back up is costly. Was leaning towards the Britons myself, but may yet go for Romans just for the challenge: they look strong and versatile if played well, but doing so won't be easy!
Title: Re: SAGA: Aetius & Arthur – new rules for the Late Roman period
Post by: armchairgeneral on December 06, 2016, 11:09:36 PM
Thanks very much for that Coenus. You are halfway to having done a proper review of the supplement  lol

I get the impression Britons versus Saxons won't be that different to Anglo-Saxons versus Vikings? The Romans do seem interesting with their artillery and I believe they get cataphracts?
Title: Re: SAGA: Aetius & Arthur – new rules for the Late Roman period
Post by: Nord on December 09, 2016, 12:51:31 PM
Any commentary on the Picts, think they appeal to me as a painter more than anything else, but would like to know how they play too.
Title: Re: SAGA: Aetius & Arthur – new rules for the Late Roman period
Post by: Coenus Scaldingus on December 09, 2016, 05:16:33 PM
I get the impression Britons versus Saxons won't be that different to Anglo-Saxons versus Vikings? The Romans do seem interesting with their artillery and I believe they get cataphracts?
That's probably a pretty fair assessment, at least the impression I got from looking at the boards. I suppose that tends to be the strategy of raiders and island dwellers! Then again, they will behave quite differently in terms of set-up (big units vs close deployment) and thankfully (as my opponent is growing his Saxon horde) the invaders have no access to crazy berserkers with a massive hoard of re-rollable dice! Anyway, the Romans can have cataphracts indeed; hadn't looked at them much as they're a 'named' unit, but they're pretty interesting: aside from being a bit tougher, they also allow warriors in the army to be mounted, but more importantly, all abilities on the board that reduce the impetus value will do so by 1 point less, which is rather a massive boost. Don't suppose GB's next plastic set will be Late Roman cavalry? Because I have a sudden desire to have a pile of them...

Any commentary on the Picts, think they appeal to me as a painter more than anything else, but would like to know how they play too.
Haven't looked at them into any great detail (guess I'll have done a full review before too long after all!), but they're along the lines of Welsh and Irish as a skirmishy force that likes terrain, if you're familiar with those. Very much melee oriented however (although one unit of levy can have crossbows), with some offensive and defensive abilities, as well as various tricksy movement ones. The most eye-catching aspect is the ability for a warlord to ride into battle on a chariot! A more commanding presence (increased We Obey range), but no Side-by-Side. An additional benefit is the ability to retreat L after a lost combat - heroically running away, I suppose...
Title: Re: SAGA: Aetius & Arthur – new rules for the Late Roman period
Post by: Coenus Scaldingus on December 21, 2016, 11:38:13 AM
Well, your wait is.. not quite at an end. But the end is in sight! http://www.grippingbeast.co.uk/SAGA_Aetius__Arthur_Supplement_PREORDER--product--5432.html
Title: Re: SAGA: Aetius & Arthur – new rules for the Late Roman period
Post by: ayak333 on January 22, 2017, 07:44:42 PM
Any looks at the Gothic faction, unit compositions, and board abilities?
Title: Re: SAGA: Aetius & Arthur – new rules for the Late Roman period
Post by: axabrax on April 16, 2017, 06:42:49 PM
As usual GB has under-produced the new Romans and Britons dice. They are sold out everywhere. This seems to be a continuing refrain with Saga that is really disappointing. When the game first came out I had to wait 8 months for the dice to be available. By now one would think they had enough experience to match their manufacturing with demand. Anyone have an extra set they want yo sell?  ;)
Title: Re: SAGA: Aetius & Arthur – new rules for the Late Roman period
Post by: Dags on April 16, 2017, 07:03:00 PM
The Roman dice are produced by Studio Tomahawk.... nowt to do with GB

Edit: We've got stock at Ainsty
Title: Re: SAGA: Aetius & Arthur – new rules for the Late Roman period
Post by: Lt. Hazel on April 16, 2017, 08:05:21 PM
As usual GB has under-produced the new Romans and Britons dice. They are sold out everywhere. This seems to be a continuing refrain with Saga that is really disappointing. When the game first came out I had to wait 8 months for the dice to be available. By now one would think they had enough experience to match their manufacturing with demand. Anyone have an extra set they want yo sell?  ;)

Ask Michael at Miniaturicum. He asked me a few days ago of I need some Roman dice.