Lead Adventure Forum
Miniatures Adventure => The Conflicts that came in from the Cold => Topic started by: H.M.Stanley on April 02, 2016, 11:05:51 PM
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What do people recommend?
I have the Force on Force Bush Wars supplement (for reference purposes) but not the core rules.
A friend is lending me Peter Pig's Peoples Republic/AK47.
What else is worth considering/decent?
Thanks. J
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And of course Chain of Command which is my preference so far and especially as it's already being adapted for the period ...
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If you like them stick with Chain of Command, or indeed Fighting Season when that eventually sees the light of day.
All the weapons used are already there, vehicles were rare outside of convoys and externals, and then there were no armour on armour clashes.
The guerrillas were really bad in terms of quality, the Rhodesians varied from 'Green' (Rhodesia Regiment reservists) to 'Average' (most everyone else), to 'Elite' (Fireforce units of all types, Selous Scouts, SAS).
The sheer majority of 'contacts' would see a section or two of guerrillas at the very most, often just the one, against two or three 'sticks' of Security Forces; mainly due to the vastness of patrol areas. Even Fireforce ops would only see half of one actually on-table at the most, due to the respective elements being deployed so far apart.
Externals were different, but then most of the 'gameable' action were against the FPLM, who would be 'Green' Soviet-style regulars facing Rhodesian 'elites'. Attack-defence games would be Rhodesians on a static FPLM bridge or road junction defence unit, or 'FPLM Mobiles' chasing retreating Rhodesians.
Force on Force are a good set of rules, I prefer CoC. FoF have mechanisms you either love or hate, but if there was no CoC, I would be using them. Bolt Action would actually give a decent game too, if they are on your rule shelf you could give them a go, but I wouldn't buy them specially for it.
Literally any WWII or Modern rule set would work, with allowances made for the terrain. Most 'internal' actions took place in the 'Rainy Season', with areas of bush reducing visibility considerably. As a rule the guerrillas would open up at a maximum of 60 yards, usually much less, initiating most contacts. SF ambushes happened either at similar ranges, they would wait until the last possible moment to open fire, so as to be sure of getting everyone.
Some people I know of have used rules like Ganesha's Flying Lead, or the free Two Hour Wargames 'Chain Reaction' rules for small patrol games.
You'll have to be creative with whatever you choose, but the world is your lobster as far as types of games are concerned. :)
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I don't have much experience wargaming this period/theatre, but I do have PP's AK47. It's a good little game - but it is also geared towards much larger engagements; you can easily field forces with 100+ figures per side.
For squad-level engagements I'd look into the either Fivecore line by Nordic Weasel, or Modern Havok: Bongolesia by Rebel. IMO, YMMV, etc. 😎
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Indeed... AK47 Republic is a lot of fun, but is not a 'platoon' game. If you were going to do something like the Simba Rebellion in the Congo, I think you could certainly do worse than pick them; hordes of Simbas versus smaller forces of Mercs and ANC, they are just the job for the 'effect' of that war for sure.
You could even go for them for something like one of the massive Rhodesian 'battalion' externals like Op Miracle or Uric, but you would be tied to that level of game, which was by far the exception rather than the rule for the 'War' in general.
Nevertheless AK47 Republic is addictive. ;)
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You may take a look on "no end in sight". The game focus on leadership, and integrate rules for irregulars and militias.
The leadership specific rules will give organised armies will have a command advantage during game, wich should bring realistic behaviour on the battlefield for specific bush wars settings (often matching special forces VS insurgents).
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Have a look at the old Fire Force rules: https://web.archive.org/web/20120305055241/http://www.btinternet.com/~david.manley/wargames/Odds/fforce.htm
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Noted and understood gentlemen - thank you.
If/when Fighting Season comes out I will certainly be looking at it.
Until then I think I'll keep to CoC, perhaps using the FoF/Bush Wars lists and scenarios.
Jim - many thanks for the detail, that's much appreciated. They say to imitate is the most sincerest form of flattery! I will certainly be visiting your AARs on the subject and borrowing ;) your ideas and Special rules.
Best, James
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I might also try out Black Ops and/or OSC for smaller actions
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If/when Fighting Season comes out I will certainly be looking at it.
It will be 'when', but when is undetermined as far as I know at the moment. Having seen the original copy it should be worth getting hold of if you like CoC. Somewhat further down the line from that will be a dedicated Rhodesian Bush War supplement, but some patience will be required before that appears too.
If you're interested in wargaming the war, as seen from a former combatant's perspective, drop in on John Wynne-Hopkins' blog: https://johnwynnehopkins.wordpress.com/
My partner in crime, Happy Wanderer has some Rhodesian War stuff (and a lot of lead porn) on his blog too: https://agrabbagofgames.wordpress.com/
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Top notch. Thanks
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Please note that there is a IABSM suplement for the Africa wars: B?Maso!
http://toofatlardies.co.uk/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=3&products_id=37
Company size, true, but a lot of info.
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Most scenarios in B'maso are rules-agnostic too !
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James,
Arlequin has laid it out in all the detail and info you need there...well done that man ;) ;)
If you play CoC then that is the best system IMHO to do the period justice. However, CoC-Bush Wars has been rolled behind Fighting Season and Fighting Season appears now to be rolled behind Sharp Practice V2....so not sure what the timeline is on FS or Bush Wars...pretty much out of Arlequin's and my own hands.
As Arlequin said, my blog (link above) has some indication of what both Flying Lead and CoC can deliver. To be honest, Flying Lead is a good sized game for 10-15 man contacts that were so common...CoC doesn't do it that well but still can. There are so many specifics of how CoC can be used for Bush Wars but with the FS changes that will have to wait for now.
Alternatively Bolt Action is worth a look IMO. If you are familiar with it then it allows a game to get things going, often with people who don't know the period but do know the rules...though it will not truly define the period as a 'history-game' system in my view. That said, I still like it and believe that suitably handled it delivers...just can't do it all the time.
For a look at using Bolt Action modern you could take a look at Jay's conversion for ultra modern. He's done lots of good stuff. It depends on whether you're prepared to research and write rules for yourself for the period (my guys here have bugged me for ages to do Rhodesia for BA...but I never seem to get it done!)...if you have BA it will get things going in your group.
Jay's blog link below....check out the back end of 2015 for his ultra modern BA conversion. Also, if you want to do a conversion for BA then PM me and I can provide some solid stuff on a conversion for the Soviet-Afghan War which is contemporary with Bush Wars...lots of ideas in there.
http://jayswargamingmadness.blogspot.com.au
Cheers
Happy W
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Hi Rolf,
Many thanks for that and for the kind offer.
TBH my head will only hold a limited number of rules. I think I'll just stick with CoC for the time being ... and look at Flying Leaf ;)
Best, James
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TBH my head will only hold a limited number of rules.
That applies to most of us and is one of the reasons Bush Wars is to tie-in with CoC and FS. If an effect is common across the three, there should be no need for three different rules to reflect it. Obviously there should be differences, but not purely for the sake of difference. The fewest number of cases where you will be scratching your head trying to remember which rule applies to which set the better though.
:)
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No worries James.
PM me and I can give you any specific army list you want...they're all done.
Any ideas you want to bounce around to get CoC to work for you for Bush Wars is welcome...and off course Arlequin can equally provide all that you'll need to know....
HW
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I'm grateful gentlemen ...
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I still like Arc of Fire for these kind of games. It's a oldie but a goodie.
Jim
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No worries James.
PM me and I can give you any specific army list you want...they're all done.
Any ideas you want to bounce around to get CoC to work for you for Bush Wars is welcome...and off course Arlequin can equally provide all that you'll need to know....
HW
PM sent Rolf - thanks. Damned auto correct, Z not S! ;)