Lead Adventure Forum
Miniatures Adventure => Medieval Adventures => Topic started by: Steel fist on April 11, 2016, 09:43:50 PM
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This figure is WIP there is a fair bit of work to do still
It is the first of a set of mounted Knights in rennaisance armour. That will be Kickstarted in a couple of months.
They will be separate from the horses with separate heads and separate plumes
This figure has a grotesque horse armour based partly on a surviving chamfron and contemporary paintings and sculpture.
The rider is quite basic with a sparrow beak close helmet. But I'm going to do grotesque helmets and conventional ones so they can be customised to strongly historical or more pageant fantasy style.
The figure is fully compatible with Perry plastic Knights.
Thoughts and suggestions welcome.
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Wow, another truly impressive sculpt.
I'm sure these will go down well again for a Kickstarter (although personally I'd like late 15th century, but hey ho!).
I'm not user if you have a contemporary reference Oliver, but the crinnet (steel plates on the top of the horse's neck) look a little odd as they're almost vertical - from practical perspective, they usually overlap and lay more horizontal. I don't know how they'd be made to stand upright?
Just an observation - but I really like the pose, details and the approach re the mounted figures.
Am sure other experts on this period will provide more info, but this is good ref point...The Triumph of Maximillian.
http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=triumph+of+maximilian&hl=en-GB&gbv=2&prmd=ivns&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwih_7DtvIfMAhXC0RQKHYaoBMcQsAQIIA
All the best,
Simon.
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Congratulations on the KICKSTARTER Oliver the wip looks great I'm assuming the first sets will be generic mounted knights but will you sculpt alternate character heads/torsos (like the bearded foot knight) or nobles in renaissance dress?
Regards
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Wow, another truly impressive sculpt.
I'm sure these will go down well again for a Kickstarter (although personally I'd like late 15th century, but hey ho!).
I'm not user if you have a contemporary reference Oliver, but the crinnet (steel plates on the top of the horse's neck) look a little odd as they're almost vertical - from practical perspective, they usually overlap and lay more horizontal. I don't know how they'd be made to stand upright?
Just an observation - but I really like the pose, details and the approach re the mounted figures.
Am sure other experts on this period will provide more info, but this is good ref point...The Triumph of Maximillian.
http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=triumph+of+maximilian&hl=en-GB&gbv=2&prmd=ivns&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwih_7DtvIfMAhXC0RQKHYaoBMcQsAQIIA
All the best,
Simon.
Thanks Simon,
I will get some pics for my references, the crinnet is basically kind of flicking up like that so is is overlapped but flicks out like to look like the bones on a dragons back. I will look at it again if people don't like it though.
Congratulations on the KICKSTARTER Oliver the wip looks great I'm assuming the first sets will be generic mounted knights but will you sculpt alternate character heads/torsos (like the bearded foot knight) or nobles in renaissance dress?
Regards
Yes I will get some different ones done then look at changing heads and stuff.
Cheers
Oliver
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That is magnificent!! :o
How many sculpts do you plan on doing? Will any have couched lances?
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That is magnificent!! :o
How many sculpts do you plan on doing? Will any have couched lances?
Maybe 8 they won't initially have couched lances by I may do variants later.
Here are some pics of my references the horse armour is inspired by a dragon. I know the drawing is fantasy but conceivably the may have done horse armour to look like a dragon and the style I have rendered it is of the period.
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Good sculpt and good luck with the kickstarter!
I just have a slight criticism about the position of the legs. They seem to start a bit behind the axis of the torso to me, as if the knight was suffering from lumbar lordosis.
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I hope you'll consider matching pairs of mounted and dismounted. I game using a variation of the LotR SBG rules so I need dismounts incase of horse casualties. (The Perry's WotR range is good in that regard, their Agincourt to Orleans not so much.)
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Wow, you've got the renaissance bug haven't you !
I echo Simon's recommendation for the Triumph of Maximilian as a resource, it's excellent both in colour and the B&W line drawings, you may get something from both versions.
Another good source are the various depictions of the Battle of Pavia, the tapestries of Bernard van Orley are of particular note for their detail.
Last but not least is another series of tapestries 'La tenture de David et Bethsabee' which features some very detailed images of Gendarme horse armour.
From a pragmatic point of view there are two frustrations for miniature availability of cavalry of this period, the first you can probably address the latter may be another project;
* Horse armour; the Perry sculpted Foundry range has one pose which is good but lends some considerable repetition if you're not a fan of other ranges. Eureka do a good mix but I personally don't like the sculpts that much, others available also don't quite cut it. The main type of caparison armour that would be really useful to get some variants of is that depicted in the images below, they're suitable for 1500-1535 ish.
* Mounted Ordonance Archers; initially these were bow armed but developed into a lighter demilance type, these are almost not covered at all but formed a considerable element of any lance of the period, the Triumph is a good source for these, see below also.
Those are my thoughts for what they're worth.
All the best and good luck
Stuart
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I'm with all of the points Stuart made really.
It would be wonderful to see a selection of Francs Archer types mounted and with melee weapons and sans their missile weapons Oliver.
Equally it would be brilliant to see some caparisoned horse armours but my personal preference would be of the practical battlefield use type.
Darrell.
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Good sculpt and good luck with the kickstarter!
I just have a slight criticism about the position of the legs. They seem to start a bit behind the axis of the torso to me, as if the knight was suffering from lumbar lordosis.
It's possible just the photo, here is a pic of it next to a Perry horseman
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Wow, you've got the renaissance bug haven't you !
I echo Simon's recommendation for the Triumph of Maximilian as a resource, it's excellent both in colour and the B&W line drawings, you may get something from both versions.
Another good source are the various depictions of the Battle of Pavia, the tapestries of Bernard van Orley are of particular note for their detail.
Last but not least is another series of tapestries 'La tenture de David et Bethsabee' which features some very detailed images of Gendarme horse armour.
From a pragmatic point of view there are two frustrations for miniature availability of cavalry of this period, the first you can probably address the latter may be another project;
* Horse armour; the Perry sculpted Foundry range has one pose which is good but lends some considerable repetition if you're not a fan of other ranges. Eureka do a good mix but I personally don't like the sculpts that much, others available also don't quite cut it. The main type of caparison armour that would be really useful to get some variants of is that depicted in the images below, they're suitable for 1500-1535 ish.
* Mounted Ordonance Archers; initially these were bow armed but developed into a lighter demilance type, these are almost not covered at all but formed a considerable element of any lance of the period, the Triumph is a good source for these, see below also.
Those are my thoughts for what they're worth.
All the best and good luck
Stuart
Thanks stuart, there are going to be all different horses. Some elaborate some more plain.
The photos are useful as some I have not seen.
As to lighter types it depends I may do one or two to trial them but in my experience with the samurai range people don't really buy the lesser troop types nearly as often.
I'm with all of the points Stuart made really.
It would be wonderful to see a selection of Francs Archer types mounted and with melee weapons and sans their missile weapons Oliver.
Equally it would be brilliant to see some caparisoned horse armours but my personal preference would be of the practical battlefield use type.
Darrell.
My plan is to do enough figures so that you can build either practical Knights or fantasy.
Cheers
Oliver
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I hope you'll consider matching pairs of mounted and dismounted. I game using a variation of the LotR SBG rules so I need dismounts incase of horse casualties. (The Perry's WotR range is good in that regard, their Agincourt to Orleans not so much.)
It's a thought but you should with appropriate heads be able to do this to some extent anyway.
Cheers
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Here is the figure after more work.
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The riders legs look a little short.
You see quite a few illustrations where the feet are below the horse's chest line.
Possibly emphasised by the straight-legged riding style at the time.
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Oliver
Here's something to consider - its showing Charles the Bold from Swiss chronicles c 1485-90.
Think theres another, with mane coming from lion's mouth - I'll look it out.
All the best,
Simon.
(http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r146/chicks_photos/599_zpsnpduzdac.jpg) (http://s143.photobucket.com/user/chicks_photos/media/599_zpsnpduzdac.jpg.html)
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Thanks Simon
That's an interesting picture, it goes to show that people dreamed up this kind of thing a lot earlier than the classical elaborate armour produced by negroni in th 1540s
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Awesome! I'll be buying one for sure. I really like the idea of a choice of heads.
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I have been looking for that Charles the Bold figure on horseback for a long time.
I would be really pleased if you make it.
Mick
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Mick
Me too (and others I'm sure) - although I'm sure that Oliver knows that that's not an accurate representation of Charles as the rider of that bard....
Simon
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He did not have a beard did he, the portraits I have seen show him clean shaven.
I also assume that the armour in the picture was probably not used by him either?
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heres another grotesque helm...
(http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r146/chicks_photos/72a4cecd325c92fcddce9dd1c66a9605_zpsc5bhr7dx.jpg) (http://s143.photobucket.com/user/chicks_photos/media/72a4cecd325c92fcddce9dd1c66a9605_zpsc5bhr7dx.jpg.html)
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Oliver
Re Charles - no beard - we have likenesses from portraits.
However the armour style looks Ok to me.
Simon.
http://i465.photobucket.com/albums/rr17/SelimYavuz/CharlestheTerrible.jpg
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Silly question - In the Schilling picture, which is Charles?
I had always assumed that Charles is the bearded man on the right horse with the red and gold face barding.
Now I look again and wonder if Charles is on the front left horse with a hammer. The horse has a white barding with gold Burgundian symbols.
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Mick
Sure it's Charles with beard- as there are others images for him with same beardy chap.
I'm using the white armour as reference for one of my figures though, as he looks great.
Simon
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heres another grotesque helm...
(http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r146/chicks_photos/72a4cecd325c92fcddce9dd1c66a9605_zpsc5bhr7dx.jpg) (http://s143.photobucket.com/user/chicks_photos/media/72a4cecd325c92fcddce9dd1c66a9605_zpsc5bhr7dx.jpg.html)
Thanks simon
I have this one in my collection of references.
But it's good you posted as I may not have.
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My, but we're all critics... great-looking rider, but the horse looks like he should be a little longer to me. :)
As for Charles the Bold, the portraits we have are from c.1460 when he was in his early 30s... by 1477 he could look very different, not least that he had lost his front teeth and had facial scars to match (he might have grown a beard to hide them). He sounds like he suffered from manic depression, or at least depression (periods of melancholy and 'hilarity' and his turning to drink during the 'Swiss Wars') and probably 'let himself go' at times too. His hair was also greying. Certainly the legend of his identification includes a sore on his stomach and long uncut finger and toe nails. It is possible that the Swiss picture might be somewhat more accurate than we might imagine.
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My, but we're all critics... great-looking rider, but the horse looks like he should be a little longer to me. :)
As for Charles the Bold, the portraits we have are from c.1460 when he was in his early 30s... by 1477 he could look very different, not least that he had lost his front teeth and had facial scars to match (he might have grown a beard to hide them). He sounds like he suffered from manic depression, or at least depression (periods of melancholy and 'hilarity' and his turning to drink during the 'Swiss Wars') and probably 'let himself go' at times too. His hair was also greying. Certainly the legend of his identification includes a sore on his stomach and long uncut finger and toe nails. It is possible that the Swiss picture might be somewhat more accurate than we might imagine.
Thanks, it's funny that I'm getting comments about the anatomy of things as this horse is exactly the same size and proportions as a Perry plastic, and I have done these to fit with them.
Anyway an interesting thought about Charles the bold as he was wounded in the throat by a pike at Ruplemonde I think and he may have grown one to cover the scar and although beards were not in fashion then, they are still seen occasionally in contemporary painting like this.
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Thanks, it's funny that I'm getting comments about the anatomy of things as this horse is exactly the same size and proportions as a Perry plastic, and I have done these to fit with them.
I'd better get onto them too then! :)
It might be that the barding is distorting things and I was talking about only a small difference as it was, but from here it looks like the saddle starts on the neck and ends on the rump, and doesn't just sit in the back of the horse between the two.
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Maybe the saddle needs some trimming anyway I have done more work on the figure here it is
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Anyway an interesting thought about Charles the bold as he was wounded in the throat by a pike at Ruplemonde I think and he may have grown one to cover the scar and although beards were not in fashion then, they are still seen occasionally in contemporary painting like this.
Wasn't that Corneille of Burgundy who got facestabbed by a fleeing pikeman in that battle?
Nice sculpt either way. Although a bit too late an era for me.
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Yes your right, Charles was wounded by a sword at another battle much later
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Excellent early Renaissance knights. Looking forward to seeing more.
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That is a lovely sculpt. Keep them coming.
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Thanks again
Here is the next figure, in a fluted Maximilian armour. The Perry plastic hand is just temporary it will be replaced with a lance also the head a plume are just stuck on and there are quite a few refinements to do yet
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They're getting even better - am in awe!
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Awesome piece of sculpting ! keep em coming.
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I think this is your best yet. Keep bringing it !
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Absolutely superb, an epoch of the period, really well done. :-*
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Glad everyone thinks they are improving, I have started the next one already!
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Lovely! :-* :-* :-*
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I love them, but would there by technical problem to make reins the way he would at last half touch them ?
Thats my personal pet peeve with horse raiders, i want mine to keep reins in hand which prooves to be difficult in most cases but with such bespoke miniatures why not easy fix that a little ? Would that be a technical problem ?
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I love them, but would there by technical problem to make reins the way he would at last half touch them ?
Thats my personal pet peeve with horse raiders, i want mine to keep reins in hand which prooves to be difficult in most cases but with such bespoke miniatures why not easy fix that a little ? Would that be a technical problem ?
This is also one of my pet issues with most mounted figures, don't worry it is not finished yet once I have completed them them will all be holding reigns.
If you look at my samurai you will see they all hold them, but they are single piece castings and that was one reason I did them that way.
With these new figures I will have to do it differently as the riders are detachable.
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Zee next figure, still not complete
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Very nice - I am looking forward to these :)
How is your production from the Kickstarter going? The last update was a month ago.
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Thats an incredibly useful horse, for late medievals Oliver - more lovely sculpting!
Simon.
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My word, they just get better!