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Miniatures Adventure => VSF Adventures => Topic started by: Pijlie on May 15, 2016, 05:24:45 PM

Title: Building Martian skyships and Pijlie's Skyship rules: Action pictures!!!!!!!!
Post by: Pijlie on May 15, 2016, 05:24:45 PM: ...to try out some techniques for the bigger stuff :D

(https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-LdM-LIugDro/VzibGgkuXvI/AAAAAAAAECw/UmC7B_8OxBw9fQfLHQDDyVsbUeECeNnnQCLcB/s640/Scarab%2B%25287%2529.jpg)

I am curious how you all like this first attempt. There is more to see and to read on my blog. http://pijlieblog.blogspot.nl/ (http://pijlieblog.blogspot.nl/)
Title: Re: Building a 28mm Aphid class gunboat
Post by: Traveler Man on May 15, 2016, 06:49:46 PM: Excellent! :-*
Title: Re: Building a 28mm Aphid class gunboat
Post by: wolfkarl on May 15, 2016, 08:20:24 PM: What a great start, I'm looking forward to more.
Title: Re: Building a 28mm Aphid class gunboat
Post by: Malamute on May 15, 2016, 09:33:22 PM: Very nice. ;D
Title: Re: Building a 28mm Aphid class gunboat
Post by: The_Beast on May 16, 2016, 12:40:37 AM: I could have SWORN I'd replied to this, displaying my shame at not getting further than printing and gluing to foamcore the images from that man's work. :o

I was curious about your rules to play; can you share some of how that works?

Doug
Title: Re: Building a 28mm Aphid class gunboat and Pijlie's Skyship rules!
Post by: Pijlie on May 16, 2016, 06:51:01 AM: The rules are on my blog. A link in the article directs to it. But for convenience sake here they are:

The Barsoom Project: Sky ship rules!
Just to share and to inspire. All feedback is welcome!

Sky Ships of Barsoom
These rules are written with Witchfinder General in mind, but are actually quite generic. They assume ships are ponderous moving pieces of terrain, from which the figures take their actions. For nautical ships, simply ignore all rules regarding altitude, descending and ascending.

Turn sequence:
Ships move before all figures in the Ship Phase, giving these the chance to react to their movement. Ships roll for Initiative, the highest result moving first. Ships execute their Movement options alternatively, starting with the player with Initiative and his first option, then the second player with his first option, then the Initiative player with his second option et cetera until all are executed. After all ship movement is done, the standard WFG phases start.

Movement
Ships may execute three movement actions from the following options: Ahead, Reverse, Turn right, Turn left, Stop, Descend or Ascend. The players must plot these in advance for a turn, by choosing Movement Cards from the deck and revealing these in turn. The card deck contains:
- 3 x Ahead (move Speed number in inches forward)
- 1 x Reverse (move Speed number in inches backward)
- 2 x Turn right (up to 45 degrees)
- 2 x Turn left (up to 45 degrees)
- 3 x Stop
- 3 x Descend (lose 1 level of altitude)
- 1 x Ascend (gain 1 level of altitude)
- 1 x Extra Ascend (for small ships)

Ships are free to choose these options in any order with the following restrictions:
· A ship may only Ascend once per turn, unless specifically stated otherwise in the ship’s stats
· A ship must precede any turn with a Ahead or Reverse move, unless specifically stated otherwise in the ship’s stats
· A ship may only Reverse once per turn, unless specifically stated otherwise in the ship’s stats
· A ship must make a stop between Ahead and Reverse moves and vice versa.

Ships may descend to ground level and thereby Land. However, if a ship hits ground level after 2 or more consecutive Descend moves, it is a Crash (landing). Crashed ships roll a d10 on the Damage table for every preceding consecutive Descend move above 1.

Ships that move into unintended contact with another ship Collide. Colliding ships roll a d10 on the Damage table for every preceding Ahead move leading up to the Collision. Ships Colliding with each other head-on add up their Ahead/Reverse moves.
Ships that move their bow or stern into intended contact with another ship Ram. Ramming ships roll a d10 -1 on the Damage table for every preceding Ahead move leading up to the Ram. Ships Ramming each other head-on add up their Ahead/Reverse moves. The Rammed ship rolls a D10+1 on the Damage table.

Ships which are Out of control due to steering damage, incapacitated helmsmen or other reasons will execute two random Movement options per turn and then Descend one level.

Ships may get in each other’s way without colliding, due to altitude differences. In that case move both bases aside until the bases will fit into contact on the table.

Combat:
In terms of combat, ships are terrain over which figures may move within the restrictions of that terrain.
Ship-borne weapons fire in the Activation Phase of the figures that operate them.
Figures may freely cross over to another ship when and where:
- the ships make contact
- the ships are no more than 3 inches apart lengthwise and/or heightwise
In all other cases figures may attempt to jump on the other ship. Roll an extra D6 for movement. If the distance rolled is insufficient, the figure will either miss his target and fall to the ground level or (when jumping down on a ship directly below) take a hit when landing.

Ship's armament
Ships carry armament of two types: Light and Heavy. Light weapons cannot harm ships and may fire as normal on crew. Heavy weapons can harm ships and may fire as normal on ships. A Heavy weapon hit on a ship may result in 1 or more rolls on the Damage table, depending on the weapon. Firing heavy weapons on crew comes with a -2 modifier and any hit results in a Kill.

Damage:
All damage to ships is determined by a d10 roll on the Damage table. Damage is rolled if called for at the end of the Ship Phase and during the turn. Apply results immediately.

1 No Effect
2 Descend one level. If already on the ground: roll again. Ignore a second result of 1.
3 Lose the ability to Reverse. Discard the Reverse option. May be Repaired.
4 Lose the ability to ascend. Discard the Ascend option. If already on the ground, the ship is stranded. May be Repaired
5 Turning ability impaired. Discard a random Turn option. May be Repaired.
6 Control damage. From now on the ship has one less Movement option per turn. May be Repaired.
7 Speed loss. Discard one Ahead option. May be Repaired.
8 Lose one weapon on the side the damage was caused from. Ship owner’s choice. May not be Repaired.
9 A Fire breaks out on board. Succesfull Repairs will extinghuish it. A Fire causes one roll on this table per turn.
10 Only valid when rolled twice in the same turn: the ship’s hull integrity is destroyed and it is wrecked crashing to the ground. May not be Repaired.

Optional rule 1:
Make a Damage Effect Die (DED) with 2 Stops, 2 Arrows and 2 Turns. Roll in addition to Damage Effects 3 to 8. Result dictates immediate (additional) move of the ship on top of the plotted Move of that turn. Roll DED.

Optional rule 2:
When manoeuvering, ships may opt to ignore Movement restrictions. This however comes with risks for the ships construction. A ship may only ignore ONE restriction per turn, execute the Move, immediately roll a D10 for Damage and add its effect to the Move.

Boarding
Crews may board other ships and may Grapple with them within throwing range. This will connect both grappled ships. Appoint crewmembers as (un)grapplers. Roll 1D6 per crewmember. A 6 is a successful (un)grapple. (Un)grapplers may not do anything else in that turn. Grappled ships of equal size may only execute 1 Movement option, which the other ship must follow (but may counter with its own Movement Option). Countered moves (i.e. 1 Ascend vs 1 Descend) cancel each other. In all other cases the smaller ship simply follows the larger ship.

Repairs:
Some Damage results may be Repaired. Select a number of crewmembers for the Repair crew and move them to a central location. Roll 1D6 for each crewmember selected. As soon as three results of 6 have been rolled the damage is repaired. Repair crews may do nothing else during the turn that they are repairing. Crew members may leave or join the Repair crew during the repairs. Rolled 6s are saved.

Ship classes:
Ships may be divided into three classes:
· Capital ships: Speed 4. May descend 2 levels in one turn before landing without having to roll for damage, due to their heavy construction.
· Medium ships: Speed 6.
· Small craft: Speed 8, Ascend 2 levels/turn, 2 Turns/Forward. Light weapons may damage them (-1 on the DT). All Heavy weapon hits are +1 on the DT.
Title: Re: Building a 28mm Aphid class gunboat
Post by: The_Beast on May 16, 2016, 12:58:50 PM: lol

Wasn't necessary; already have it printed out!

Sorry, wasn't sure if yours were the same ones. I even added a bit to some of the cards (Reverse - Must follow Stop after Ahead, Descend - Crash?) kind of thing.

I want to play around more, of course, but I'd hoped I'd someday be flying my Crossover kite with them. ::)

Thanks MUCHO!

Doug
Title: Re: Building a 28mm Aphid class gunboat
Post by: Pijlie on May 16, 2016, 01:16:46 PM: Well let me know what you come up with.

I think I beat you to it regarding your suggestions. The rules already state:

• A ship must make a stop between Ahead and Reverse moves and vice versa.

So a ship cannot directly reverse right after a forward move and v.v.

And regarding crashes:

Ships may descend to ground level and thereby Land. However, if a ship hits ground level after 2 or more consecutive Descend moves, it is a Crash (landing). Crashed ships roll a d10 on the Damage table for every preceding consecutive Descend move above 1.

So a ship hitting the ground after 4 Descend Moves rolls 3D10 for Damage and an additional one for every extra Descend that produces, probably stranding it or causing fires, weapon loss an other mayhem. Losing the Ascend option on the ground strands the ship as well, so crashing is definetely a risk. :D

I am playing with an optional rule that may let players ignore Movement restrictions, but that must be tested thoroughly...
Title: Re: Building a 28mm Aphid class gunboat and discussing Pijlie's Skyship rules
Post by: fergal on May 16, 2016, 02:45:25 PM: That sir, is a fantastic ship! Great work and keep them coming!
Title: Re: Building a 28mm Aphid class gunboat
Post by: The_Beast on May 16, 2016, 03:32:53 PM: Quote from: Pijlie on May 16, 2016, 01:16:46 PM

I think I beat you to it regarding your suggestions. The rules already state:

• A ship must make a stop between Ahead and Reverse moves and vice versa.

...

Of course, I just meant I'd added those TO the cards for clarity. Unless I've been less than clear on the cards. And, of course, I was unclear ABOUT the cards in my post. :D

Oh, I found my 'previous post.' Someone pulled a 'Tango' and posted images and links to your blog on TMP. "Building HMS Scarab, an Aphid class sky-gunboat" (http://theminiaturespage.com/boards/msg.mv?id=420562)

So, at first I thought I was talking TO you. More eyeballs are good, right?

Doug
Title: Re: Building a 28mm Aphid class gunboat
Post by: Pijlie on May 16, 2016, 04:05:38 PM: Quote from: The_Beast on May 16, 2016, 03:32:53 PM
Of course, I just meant I'd added those TO the cards for clarity. Unless I've been less than clear on the cards. And, of course, I was unclear ABOUT the cards in my post. :D

Ah, I misunderstood. That's actually a very good idea! I will steal this Sir! :D

Quote from: The_Beast on May 16, 2016, 03:32:53 PM
Oh, I found my 'previous post.' Someone pulled a 'Tango' and posted images and links to your blog on TMP. "Building HMS Scarab, an Aphid class sky-gunboat" (http://theminiaturespage.com/boards/msg.mv?id=420562)

So, at first I thought I was talking TO you. More eyeballs are good, right?

Doug

I'm afraid Bill and I came upon some irreconcilable differences. Hence I do no longer post on TMP and CK occasionally posts some links to my stuff there, since he always understood people liked them. :)
Title: Re: Building a 28mm Aphid class gunboat and discussing Pijlie's Skyship rules
Post by: Billchuck on May 17, 2016, 03:16:51 AM: Every time someone posts one of these incredible ship builds I start thinking that I need to run a 28mm Aeronef game. Now it's going to take me two weeks to put that crazy idea back in its box.
Title: Re: Building a 28mm Aphid class gunboat and discussing Pijlie's Skyship rules
Post by: Pijlie on May 17, 2016, 04:36:47 AM: I humbly apologize for what I will do to you the coming months lol
Title: Re: Building a 28mm Aphid class gunboat and discussing Pijlie's Skyship rules
Post by: The_Beast on May 17, 2016, 05:41:15 PM: It's a good thing he never saw the Warlords' Sky Galleon builds and convention games. Salute 'Ought Five and Six' (http://www.werelords.com/cloudships/main.htm)

Box would have been shredded... lol

Still, I've faith in what you can accomplish!

Doug
Title: Re: Building a 28mm Aphid class gunboat and discussing Pijlie's Skyship rules
Post by: Billchuck on May 17, 2016, 05:44:26 PM: I've seen the pictures of that and have the site bookmarked. The wife rolled her eyes when I talked about it last night.
Title: Re: Building a 28mm Aphid class gunboat and discussing Pijlie's Skyship rules
Post by: The_Beast on May 17, 2016, 06:11:50 PM: Alas, you're on/near the right coast, correct?

Sinewgrab and his lovely ships on the left, and me in the middle with my still-in-progress Martian kite. :'(

lol

Of course, there's my friend Sir Randall's mini-Aphids, tiny digs, and my other friend's flying trireme.

The imagined awesomeness would be too great for one room to hold. Good thing it's a large continent! :D

Doug
Title: Re: Building a 28mm Aphid class gunboat and discussing Pijlie's Skyship rules
Post by: Pijlie on May 17, 2016, 07:04:49 PM: And even better that I am in Europe then lol
Title: Re: Building a 28mm Aphid class gunboat and discussing Pijlie's Skyship rules
Post by: The_Beast on May 17, 2016, 08:09:17 PM: Just, be careful... of a Warlords' resurgence! :o

:D

Doug
Title: Re: Building a 28mm Aphid class gunboat and discussing Pijlie's Skyship rules
Post by: Pijlie on May 22, 2016, 05:46:08 PM: Work in progress on HMS Gnat, the Scarab's sister ship.

(https://scontent-ams3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-0/s526x395/13265890_1080664851972377_392451347158542301_n.jpg?oh=2e47b8c0c077485058fe0bed4361f201&oe=57E5D47D)
Title: Re: Building a 28mm Aphid class gunboat and discussing Pijlie's Skyship rules
Post by: finbikkifin on May 24, 2016, 06:45:58 PM: I must be blind - I only just noticed how the stand works, where the rod goes, and how well-supported it can be.

That's genius.

Perhaps a ring above the ship with some smoke drifting off to mask any unused upper portion of the stand would look good? Not that much could improve HMS Scarab.
Title: Re: Building a 28mm Aphid class gunboat and discussing Pijlie's Skyship rules
Post by: Pijlie on May 24, 2016, 09:17:47 PM: Hahaha! Thank you, but the idea is not mine, but AFAIK invented by LAFfer Ironclad Paul. See http://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=9801.240 (http://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=9801.240). The stand can double as a chimney or a mast or be simply be intgrated into the hull and ignored.

There will indeed be a whisp of steam in the final models. The second Aphid is nearing completion and the next one will be a Martian screw galley :)
Title: Re: Building a 28mm Aphid class gunboat and discussing Pijlie's Skyship rules
Post by: fastolfrus on May 24, 2016, 09:29:05 PM: Looking forward to the screw galley.

Don't suppose you have a PDF of your blueprints that I can unleash on the school club?
Title: Re: Building a 28mm Aphid class gunboat and discussing Pijlie's Skyship rules
Post by: The_Beast on May 25, 2016, 04:22:34 AM: Fast, ole bean, did you see the link on the top of the blog page? It gets you to an old Pinnacle forum, with a fellow doing images that Pijlie used. You actually have to go the the fifth page of the discussion, and carefully scroll down.

Scarecrow's drawings in two links (http://www.pegforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=24553&start=80)

I'm pretty sure that's what our inestimable friend used, except he had to come up with his own boiler, right?

Doug
Title: Re: Building a 28mm Aphid class gunboat and discussing Pijlie's Skyship rules
Post by: Pijlie on May 25, 2016, 04:54:41 AM: Yes, I had to make the boiler and deck house myself. But on my blog you will see in this image

(https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-nipnMh3kWiI/V0IG6uscPLI/AAAAAAAAEDM/8TVAVOdCYRsC009OLk09diC2Z_FKxtofQCLcB/s400/WP_20160522_001.jpg)

the shapes I used to make those. They are laid out on a cm grid so you can tell the sizes. The half round ones left top are the boiler and the trapezoid ones right and bottom are the bridge house and the roof. They are easy to make.
Title: Re: Building a 28mm Aphid class gunboat and discussing Pijlie's Skyship rules
Post by: Pijlie on July 01, 2016, 07:07:44 AM: Some testing of the ship rules has taken place. The results were very satisfying. Some rules for crashing have been changed and some weapon rules added.

http://pijlieblog.blogspot.nl/2015/03/the-barsoom-project-sky-ship-rules.html (http://pijlieblog.blogspot.nl/2015/03/the-barsoom-project-sky-ship-rules.html)

Some pictures of the gunboat in action:
(https://scontent-amt2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/t31.0-8/13580441_1103928259646036_7626095597735687315_o.jpg)
(https://scontent-amt2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/t31.0-8/13528265_1103928332979362_3325193325889942195_o.jpg)
(https://scontent-amt2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/t31.0-8/13522945_1103928382979357_3636312906903918558_o.jpg)

and a glimpse of the Martian ships WIP:

(https://scontent-amt2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-0/p280x280/13466511_1096814807024048_3529299106927052953_n.jpg?oh=ace6095e0fd27d05e0e75672f5adcbb2&oe=57E0DC5E)
Title: Re: Building Martian skyships and Pijlie's Skyship rules: Action pictures!!!!!!!!
Post by: Furt on July 01, 2016, 09:52:00 AM: Impressive!! :-*

There is something about these skyships that keep alluring me too, but the sensible part of me keeps telling me that no good could come of this and I haven't the room to put on a decent game.

Your latest Martian ships look cool. I think if I was to get into this I would do an all Martian game.

Have you seen what this guy is doing? Some interesting ships that may be a good source of inspiration https://www.tregames.com/

(https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/1098/4444/products/Cormorant01_1024x1024.jpg?v=1464968633)
Title: Re: Building Martian skyships and Pijlie's Skyship rules: Action pictures!!!!!!!!
Post by: YPU on July 01, 2016, 01:03:23 PM: Poldercon is a must go this time round for this one alone!
Title: Re: Building Martian skyships and Pijlie's Skyship rules: Action pictures!!!!!!!!
Post by: Pijlie on July 01, 2016, 01:08:49 PM: That was, among others, a source of inspiration.

You should really curb your sensible part. Nothing will come out of giving in to that 😃
And yes, Poldercon really is mandatory :D
Title: Re: Building Martian skyships and Pijlie's Skyship rules: Action pictures!!!!!!!!
Post by: Metternich on July 01, 2016, 08:06:02 PM: Your skyships are truly impressive.
Title: Re: Building Martian skyships and Pijlie's Skyship rules: Action pictures!!!!!!!!
Post by: MaleGriffin on July 01, 2016, 08:36:06 PM: :o :o :o
o_o o_o o_o
:-* :-* :-*

More wallet emptying sky ships!
Title: Re: Building Martian skyships and Pijlie's Skyship rules: Action pictures!!!!!!!!
Post by: Sinewgrab on July 02, 2016, 01:27:34 AM: Oh, dear. Well done! Scratchbuild heaven...
Title: Re: Building Martian skyships and Pijlie's Skyship rules: Action pictures!!!!!!!!
Post by: Pijlie on July 02, 2016, 04:45:25 PM: Some more progress today on the Martian Skyships.

(https://scontent-amt2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/t31.0-8/13575855_1104734952898700_7661186393005869217_o.jpg)
Title: Re: Building Martian skyships and Pijlie's Skyship rules: Action pictures!!!!!!!!
Post by: Furt on July 03, 2016, 01:41:41 AM: Very nice!

How do you propose the Martians control/steer their skyships?

Where is that balustrade from?
Title: Re: Building Martian skyships and Pijlie's Skyship rules: Action pictures!!!!!!!!
Post by: Pijlie on July 03, 2016, 07:42:52 AM: Oh that's the easy question! The platform at the rear will (if all goes well) carry a transparent dome housing the steering wheel. This will control the wings and tailfins that function as steering sails by manipulating the airflow during flight.

Lift will come from liftwood panels built into the hull. As you might know, liftwood gains its anti-gravitational properties by aligning the wood grain in a certain way. Through this the helmsman can control altitude.

With steering and lift taken care of, there is the question of propulsion. Now that is a brain-wracker, as I don't want to ruin the streamline by adding screws and such..... :D

The balustrade is made by a friend of mine who does lasercut work. See http://www.patslasercuttings.nl/ (http://www.patslasercuttings.nl/)
Title: Re: Building Martian skyships and Pijlie's Skyship rules: Action pictures!!!!!!!!
Post by: The Dozing Dragon on July 03, 2016, 09:09:38 AM: Loving this.
Title: Re: Building Martian skyships and Pijlie's Skyship rules: Action pictures!!!!!!!!
Post by: Pijlie on July 03, 2016, 09:18:31 AM: I am considering something like the screws of Nemo's Nautilus from the League of Extraordinary Gentlemen movie.

As of yet no idea how to make those, btw.....

If anyone has a better idea, I am open to suggestions! :)
Title: Re: Building Martian skyships and Pijlie's Skyship rules: Action pictures!!!!!!!!
Post by: Furt on July 03, 2016, 11:18:01 AM: Quote from: Pijlie on July 03, 2016, 09:18:31 AM
If anyone has a better idea, I am open to suggestions! :)

For native Martian craft I've always thought I'd use some kind of "solar" sail that mimics traditional sailing vessels but catches some "ethereal" alien current.

Could be problematic for purposes of play although.

(http://img15.deviantart.net/7d70/i/2006/185/0/8/___boat__by_dj_autochthon.jpg)

(http://pre04.deviantart.net/b248/th/pre/f/2010/022/2/3/2355193add148a6b1bf623720cb8e1c6.png)

(http://img14.deviantart.net/a9cf/i/2015/123/9/6/skyship_by_bryansyme-d299rd7.jpg)

(http://pre07.deviantart.net/c987/th/pre/i/2012/164/9/b/airship_thumbs_by_feloniusmonk-d53dy0t.jpg)
Title: Re: Building Martian skyships and Pijlie's Skyship rules: Action pictures!!!!!!!!
Post by: Pijlie on July 03, 2016, 11:30:13 AM: Hmmm. Interesting concept. I might be able to use the wing hardpoints in a different way. Must not become too heavy though. Drawing board time.... ;D
Title: Re: Building Martian skyships and Pijlie's Skyship rules: Action pictures!!!!!!!!
Post by: YPU on July 03, 2016, 01:46:22 PM: Quote from: Furt on July 03, 2016, 11:18:01 AM
Could be problematic for purposes of play although.

That part would really concern me, I love the look but where can you put them without them getting in the way. The first picture with the wings to the back might be best I guess.
Title: Re: Building Martian skyships and Pijlie's Skyship rules: Action pictures!!!!!!!!
Post by: OSHIROmodels on July 03, 2016, 04:22:28 PM: Interesting thread :)

cheers

James
Title: Re: Building Martian skyships and Pijlie's Skyship rules: Action pictures!!!!!!!!
Post by: Pijlie on July 03, 2016, 05:30:32 PM: Quote from: YPU on July 03, 2016, 01:46:22 PM
That part would really concern me, I love the look but where can you put them without them getting in the way. The first picture with the wings to the back might be best I guess.

The wings would need to be to the rear and lower half of the model, or the deck would be inaccesssible. Since they "fly" on their standards that should not be a problem. But the challenge is to make them look like sails without making them too flimsy.
Title: Re: Building Martian skyships and Pijlie's Skyship rules: Action pictures!!!!!!!!
Post by: YPU on July 03, 2016, 06:29:59 PM: I've found tissue paper drenched in PVA dries very sturdy and thin, getting it to dry in the right orientation might be a challenge.
Title: Re: Building Martian skyships and Pijlie's Skyship rules: Action pictures!!!!!!!!
Post by: Pijlie on July 03, 2016, 06:56:00 PM: Quote from: YPU on July 03, 2016, 06:29:59 PM
I've found tissue paper drenched in PVA dries very sturdy and thin, getting it to dry in the right orientation might be a challenge.

I used it before to make tents and such, but even dry it is not very sturdy, especially such a large surface as a sail on one of these ships. The same trick with cloth (cotton or something) would be possible I think.

I build them with the wings they have now and, since these are fixed to be removed for transport, will experiment with sails afterwards.
Title: Re: Building Martian skyships and Pijlie's Skyship rules: Action pictures!!!!!!!!
Post by: fastolfrus on July 03, 2016, 07:05:03 PM: If you are going for cloth, try silk. That may be your lightest option.
If you did the sails with spines, like a Chinese junk (or a bat wing) you could put in something relatively thin and lightweight - bamboo skewers perhaps - to aid stability.
Title: Re: Building Martian skyships and Pijlie's Skyship rules: Action pictures!!!!!!!!
Post by: Furt on July 03, 2016, 11:15:44 PM: Quote from: fastolfrus on July 03, 2016, 07:05:03 PM
If you are going for cloth, try silk. That may be your lightest option.

I've used calico material successfully as sails before.

Also I would consider light gauge wire to support the shape of the sails or act as guide lines for hanging them.

Regardless I always make my masts/sails detachable for storage so I would use small hooks as anchors, positioned around the ship, for the wires to attach to - again makes the piece less friendly for the placement of figures.

Hard to see but this is an example of how I've used "hooks" to attach sails before. There is enough give to detach the hook, but generally the line remains taunt.

(http://i298.photobucket.com/albums/mm243/fsultana/P7140036.jpg)

(http://i298.photobucket.com/albums/mm243/fsultana/P7140039.jpg)
Title: Re: Building Martian skyships and Pijlie's Skyship rules: Action pictures!!!!!!!!
Post by: Bullshott on July 03, 2016, 11:41:07 PM: Great stuff. I like the Martian ship designs :_
Title: Re: Building Martian skyships and Pijlie's Skyship rules: Action pictures!!!!!!!!
Post by: The_Beast on July 05, 2016, 02:10:35 PM: Quote from: Furt on July 03, 2016, 11:18:01 AM
For native Martian craft I've always thought I'd use some kind of "solar" sail that mimics traditional sailing vessels but catches some "ethereal" alien current.

Could be problematic for purposes of play although.

Frank Chadwick has come around to the idea that liftwood craft would float upward, then 'turn off' the anti-grav and glide down. Daft to me.

If you 'turn off' gravity on the earth, you would rise, but so slowly as the wind might blow you so far in one direction, you might not have enough glide to counter in a different intended direction.

I'd suggested that wise old Martian helmsmen would use a laminar boundary and the sails top and bottom.

Actually, once in battle, most sails might be 'stowed for action.' And a battle is what you plan, no? ;)

Doug
Title: Re: Building Martian skyships and Pijlie's Skyship rules: Action pictures!!!!!!!!
Post by: Pijlie on July 05, 2016, 02:30:17 PM: I readily admit that playing skyship combat and bafflingly cool looks for the ships will take absolute priority above consistent fake natural lawmongering lol
Title: Re: Building Martian skyships and Pijlie's Skyship rules: Action pictures!!!!!!!!
Post by: SBRPearce on July 05, 2016, 02:51:40 PM: For your sails, perhaps vacu-forming thin polystyrene sheet? You could even do the "dead simple" version of making a form out of plaster of paris, sanding it smooth, then heating your plastic sheet with a heat gun and forming it by hand while wearing those silicon oven mitts...You can achieve some compound curves, then trim to fit with scissors.

Or, mark the shape you need before pulling it off the form, edge with thin half-round mouldings, then trim and "rig".
Title: Re: Building Martian skyships and Pijlie's Skyship rules: Action pictures!!!!!!!!
Post by: The_Beast on July 05, 2016, 06:59:32 PM: Quote from: Pijlie on July 05, 2016, 02:30:17 PM
I readily admit that playing skyship combat and bafflingly cool looks for the ships will take absolute priority above consistent fake natural lawmongering lol

And, with my last statement above, I prove I can drag ANY crazy idea back to internally self-consistent... lol lol lol

Call me the justifier...

Doug
Title: Re: Building Martian skyships and Pijlie's Skyship rules: Action pictures!!!!!!!!
Post by: Pijlie on July 05, 2016, 08:24:57 PM: Quote from: The_Beast on July 05, 2016, 06:59:32 PM
And, with my last statement above, I prove I can drag ANY crazy idea back to internally self-consistent... lol lol lol

Call me the justifier...

Doug

And justly so lol
Title: Re: Building Martian skyships and Pijlie's Skyship rules: Action pictures!!!!!!!!
Post by: Billchuck on July 06, 2016, 02:57:05 AM: Quote from: The_Beast on July 05, 2016, 02:10:35 PM
Frank Chadwick has come around to the idea that liftwood craft would float upward, then 'turn off' the anti-grav and glide down. Daft to me.

If you 'turn off' gravity on the earth, you would rise, but so slowly as the wind might blow you so far in one direction, you might not have enough glide to counter in a different intended direction.

If the Liftwood could reverse gravity, then the ship could "fall" upwards fast enough to "glide" forward on the rise as well as the fall. That would explain the parachute-like sails: they fill upward when descending and downward when ascending.
Title: Re: Building Martian skyships and Pijlie's Skyship rules: Action pictures!!!!!!!!
Post by: The_Beast on July 06, 2016, 06:58:13 PM: All of his comments that I've seen indicate that liftwood can merely negate or block gravitic pull. He started wandering in to talk of bosons that so jarred me so as to plug my ears. *shrug*

In the end, I don't want bosons in my VSF... ::)

Doug
Title: Re: Building Martian skyships and Pijlie's Skyship rules: Action pictures!!!!!!!!
Post by: YPU on July 06, 2016, 07:01:51 PM: Quote from: The_Beast on July 06, 2016, 06:58:13 PM

In the end, I don't want bosons in my VSF... ::)

#Barsoom-not-Bosons

... I'll get my coat.
Title: Re: Building Martian skyships and Pijlie's Skyship rules: Action pictures!!!!!!!!
Post by: Pijlie on July 06, 2016, 09:08:26 PM: Quote from: The_Beast on July 06, 2016, 06:58:13 PM
All of his comments that I've seen indicate that liftwood can merely negate or block gravitic pull. He started wandering in to talk of bosons that so jarred me so as to plug my ears. *shrug*

In the end, I don't want bosons in my VSF... ::)

Doug

So the Higgs-Boson drive is out then. Eight Ray Engine it is :D
Title: Re: Building Martian skyships and Pijlie's Skyship rules: Action pictures!!!!!!!!
Post by: The_Beast on July 06, 2016, 11:10:21 PM: Jolly jokers... lol

Doug

Edit: Come to think on it, quite happy with 'god particle', as long as it's some 'heathen Martian deity.' Don't know who this fellow Boson is. Sounds Flemish.

Right, my coat as well.
Title: Re: Building Martian skyships and Pijlie's Skyship rules: Action pictures!!!!!!!!
Post by: Pijlie on August 12, 2016, 05:46:24 AM: Sneak peek of the (nearly finished) Zodanga ship:

(https://scontent-amt2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/t31.0-8/13996203_1130951923610336_627770291699473748_o.jpg)
Title: Re: Building Martian skyships and Pijlie's Skyship rules: Action pictures!!!!!!!!
Post by: Captain Darling on August 12, 2016, 06:16:52 AM: Great bit of construction there, the Martian ship design is very nice.
Title: Re: Building Martian skyships and Pijlie's Skyship rules: Action pictures!!!!!!!!
Post by: YPU on August 12, 2016, 09:14:54 AM: I see fancy sails on that one. :D
Title: Re: Building Martian skyships and Pijlie's Skyship rules: Action pictures!!!!!!!!
Post by: Pijlie on August 12, 2016, 05:29:30 PM: Quote from: YPU on August 12, 2016, 09:14:54 AM
I see fancy sails on that one. :D

Not yet :) These are the wings I originally planned for. But I have ambitious wing designs....
Title: Re: Building Martian skyships and Pijlie's Skyship rules: Action pictures!!!!!!!!
Post by: Metternich on August 13, 2016, 03:55:06 PM: Very impressive scratch-build.