-
Gents,
I'd thought I'd pop up a few pics of the new Eureka miniatures 'pre-contact' (c.1800) Maori figures with some comparison shots with Empress Miniatures Maoris.
These Maoris are 28mm sculpted by Alan Marsh. They are a little larger but have about the same heft as the Empress figures i.e. they look like a similar style of anatomically correct sculpts. I think the Eureka ones are a little more so (taking nothing away from the lovely Empress minis) and they are a smidge larger as you can see.
The two figure ranges mix quite well even though the Empress are a touch smaller, but I suspect, once painted and based that they will blend together quite well.
Thee figures will be useful for players looking to engage in pre contact tribal warfare. The Maori were a constant warring culture so from these sculpts two varied and sizeable hosts could be formed without excessive 'repeat' figures....a 60 figure tribe would have only 3-4 of the same figure in the them. By my count there are 18, yes 18, different figures and they are all in motion and look very nice.
Within the range some body shapes vary but all are reflective of the possible variations one would expect which I think was the sculptor's intent...regardless, they all work together very nicely.
These figures are lovely. They will be useful for not only pre contact conflict but as you can see, when mixed with the Empress figures, they can do duty as tribes of the Musket Wars era (1806-1845-ish) where Maori warfare literally exploded with near constant fighting up and down the Islands. They can also be used as enemies of the Crown in the Flagstaff War of 1845-47 so you get nice double duty out of these.
All in all, these are an excellent addition and pretty much take top place as they best Maoris on the market for this earlier period. They will be perfect figures for the new tribal warfare game by Mana press (called Tribal).
Speaking to the owner of Eureka Miniatures, he said if enough people are interested we could get 8-10 additional figures armed with muskets and that would truly make for a superb range with excellent use for gaming and a nice homogenous single sculpt effect that would work very well.
Happy Wanderer
PS If anyone is interested in adding musket armed Maori warriors troops by the same sculptor to complement this range thereby being usable for the Musket and Flagstaff Wars then maybe a show of hands would be good. I'm up for 100. If we get to 600 or more then it can probably happen.
..hope we get there... :P
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-mrdAiEDVhs0/V1a9D549ynI/AAAAAAAAGTA/s62GlW1oia8eYksjy-KedH6q3d0t1VFNgCCo/s1280/IMG_2766.JPG)
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-MRpxYdYUMgg/V1a9G8SrV0I/AAAAAAAAGTI/JqExHLwIXfoPGGA3lU5f_IpXTMWATC6QgCCo/s1280/IMG_2767.JPG)
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-NyEMdEqcK5Q/V1a9Mn2QpfI/AAAAAAAAGTQ/EQKhbLFAEPcmn9Is4qK5c5XW6fq3ueWowCCo/s1280/IMG_2768.JPG)
-
Great review Rolf, I am painting these guys up as we speak, although I have a lot of Maori already musket armed maori necer go amiss.
One thing I did with the Empress Maori was some simple head and weapon swaps, the heads swap over very nicely (not sure on bewteen ranges however) what I also did was use plastic dane axes to swap out some weapons for axe head long handled weapons and they work a treat
Page 4 on this thread shows some of the swaps http://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=66759.0 :D
-
Why is that toa holding his Taiaha vertically by the bladed end? I do wish sculptors would review some of the clips available showing how the weapons are used before starting! At least none of these are trying to use them as throwing spears, or disrespecting the spirit of the taiaha by resting the tongue on the ground. (Rant mode over).
-
hmmm... which warrior are you referring to Matakakea? I don't see any of them touching the 'head' of a taiaha. When I looked at the figures they all seemed 'correct' to me, and my extended whanau in NZ thought they were all correct when I sent them copies (they wanted to know who the 'maori' sculptor was, I didn't have the heart to tell them he's from South Shields in NE England).
I actually provided Alan advice on the maori figures, and I referred him to several videos done by Te Karere, Waka Huia and Maori TV which covers the usage of rakau maori. This included some fantastic interviews with the likes of Pita Sharples and Pou Temara, who discussed the use of maori weapons in war and peace.
eg, Waka Huia video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pKlqol_Hn6s
I think Alan did a fantastic job of sculpting these maori - he did it respectfully and I think he absolutely captured the mana/spirit and tradition of te maori. The strut and provocation coming from some of the figures are marvellous! Maybe a bit too much of the pukana (tongue-poking) for my liking, but I guess that's to be expected for maori figures. ;D
As for the variation in sizes, I asked Alan to make some figures with different body sizes and/or ages. I just think that a force with different body-types is great - particularly with maori who can have fullahs as big as a brick $h1thouse. Again, Alan did a great job of this - we have some muscly dudes, some skinny, some stocky guys who look like they belong in a rugby forward pack... and then there's the guys with the puku/tummy (like myself, they've eaten a bit too much of the KFC perhaps).
-
they look fantastic
-
hmmm... which warrior are you referring to Matakakea? I don't see any of them touching the 'head' of a taiaha. When I looked at the figures they all seemed 'correct' to me, and my extended whanau in NZ thought they were all correct when I sent them copies (they wanted to know who the 'maori' sculptor was, I didn't have the heart to tell them he's from South Shields in NE England).
I actually provided Alan advice on the maori figures, and I referred him to several videos done by Te Karere, Waka Huia and Maori TV which covers the usage of rakau maori. This included some fantastic interviews with the likes of Pita Sharples and Pou Temara, who discussed the use of maori weapons in war and peace.
eg, Waka Huia video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pKlqol_Hn6s
I think Alan did a fantastic job of sculpting these maori - he did it respectfully and I think he absolutely captured the mana/spirit and tradition of te maori. The strut and provocation coming from some of the figures are marvellous! Maybe a bit too much of the pukana (tongue-poking) for my liking, but I guess that's to be expected for maori figures. ;D
As for the variation in sizes, I asked Alan to make some figures with different body sizes and/or ages. I just think that a force with different body-types is great - particularly with maori who can have fullahs as big as a brick $h1thouse. Again, Alan did a great job of this - we have some muscly dudes, some skinny, some stocky guys who look like they belong in a rugby forward pack... and then there's the guys with the puku/tummy (like myself, they've eaten a bit too much of the KFC perhaps).
I like them, the heft and physique of the figures is great without them looking like they spend 3 hours a day in the gym. I had no idea Alan lives in south shileds I always assumed he was an Aussie! Thats just over the water from me!
-
They are superb figures and whilst I know sod all about Maori weaponry I understood that they were well researched, like all the Eureka ranges. They aren't exactly 'new' though. The figures have been around for about a year if memory serves, in fact they've been mentioned but not reviewed on LAF before.
-
Insert Quote
hmmm... which warrior are you referring to Matakakea?
Bottom picture, top row, 2nd right. He's not touching the head, but grasping the blade, the part he should be striking the foe with, and the head is pointing skywards. The grip should be on the rounded part of the shaft, between the head and the blade. Fighting technique for the Taiaha is quarterstaff crossed with a bit of two-handed sword (just to make it easier for our European campadres to visualise). If you want a vertical pose then put the blade end upwards, hands grasping the shaft behind the dog hair decoration, and the head alongside the toa's ear so that the spirit can talk to him.
If you want you can just dismiss this as my one pedantic criticism of an otherwise interesting looking range (I'll ignore the fishing net on one of the other figures. I can always cut that off) :D
-
The guy with a fishing net is meant to be a maori god IIRC. Tūmatauenga?
-
I just cut the net off mine as he is a lovely miniature
-
Matakakea - ah, now I see where the problem is.
Completely agree re:usage of taiaha (I'd also add the 'head' i.e everything above the feather/fur collar, is considered tapu so not to be touched).
So when you say blade, you're meaning the 'body' of the taiaha. In combat I think you'd be right. However, I'm seeing that guy in a 'pose' - either as a challenge prior to closing, or even as part of a demonstration of defiance. As a stance, it's not something you'd really use in hand-to-hand, but I've seen it used in Wero and powhiri ceremonies.
Carlos: I guess it could be Tumatauenga, as he is god of war and of 'the catch' or 'hunting'. Spose this would tie in with the whole idea of mataika (first fish) - cutting the heart out of the first slain enemy and offering it to Tu.
Nic from Eureka wanted something from the maori-mythos in the range. That figure is supposed to be Maui, carrying the net with which he captured the Sun and made the days longer. Be a bugger to cut away, I reckon.
Lowtardog: Yep Alan Marsh is from South Shields. Awesome talent, I reckon - he did the Catherine the Great figure for Bad Squiddo Games. His only down-side is that he supports Sunderland... Here he is unicycling outside the Arbeia roman fort and museum (he'll hate me for this):
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cgf7ULmWwAAa2lA.jpg)
-
when will these be in the store?
-
They are available now if you contact Eureka. I guess when the webmaster puts them up they should be online.
I knocked a few up. Still messin' with the flesh but I think this color palette will work nicely...I'm skipping the tattoos...because the figures are nearly 'all flesh' they can be a bugger to get right. They look better in hand than up close in the pic...I suspect the more of them you have the better they'll look en masse.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-W-17l8YdnB0/V1lR3gA3s6I/AAAAAAAAGTk/2MIMk71cVPEjxpJsCiFoUICUrWfHgNXSQCCo/s737/IMG_2777.jpg)
-
Amazing job, again, Happy Wanderer. Your painting, especially on skin-tones, is fantastic (still loving those masai-warriors).
I reckon that skin-colour you have would be light enought to work with moko/tattoo. Mostly done on face, to denote genealogy and status. Some tribes had these linear vertical tattoos done on their hips and buttocks. Our feeble attempts at painting moko have had best results with very simple 'rays' across the forehead and cheeks, and a chin moko.
Lon's paintjob on Maui
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CkgrVA1UYAEXW-w.jpg)
At the end of the day, it's really hard to see from tabletop distance, so I'm not sure it's worth the effort. It is kinda nice to have a moko on the leaders in your force, though... ;)
Gray Ghost - I think Nic is trying to get it on his newsletter etc this week. I presume this means it'll be on the website?
-
Amazing job, again, Happy Wanderer. Your painting, especially on skin-tones, is fantastic (still loving those masai-warriors).
...thank you kind sir!
:D
...those Masai are a sight to behold in all their refinery!
I reckon that skin-colour you have would be light enough to work with moko/tattoo.
I considered it but think I'll see how they look without...I can always go back and add to suit...probably want to get them all done and see how they look first...
Mostly done on face, to denote genealogy and status. Some tribes had these linear vertical tattoos done on their hips and buttocks. Our feeble attempts at painting moko have had best results with very simple 'rays' across the forehead and cheeks, and a chin moko.
Lon's paintjob on Maui
Strapping lad that one! I'm going to try and 'pop' some of the colors if I can to jazz up the figure a bit as it can be a bit dark and 'same color' if you know what I mean.
... ;) ;)
-
Great painting Rolf, I avoided Moko as just too hard, tried pens but no easier for me, kudos to Lon.
To lighten mine I went a little lighter on the skirts, think I used dark then pale sand to lift them a little
-
Thanks Karl,
Here are a few more slightly better 'presented'...
HW
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-4_IKGsMb0YY/V1pv_781ENI/AAAAAAAAGUM/Dw8qIYw-5VwuD_F7tH-laWJSDzWjK7ZaACCo/s1024/IMG_2787.JPG)
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-6a9BzBMLrz4/V1pwAw95f8I/AAAAAAAAGUM/9aLfJrq6Yi8hvYn6xnJadkXD6VMqw7jrACCo/s1024/IMG_2788.JPG)
-
Lovely.
I have the Eureka miniatures too; they are nice in their movement. With werekake educating me on dress, custom, etc of these bubbly little guys. ;)
-
Fantastic work Rolf :-* you also need to pick up the tribal rules, great and innovative for some inter tribal skirmishes
-
Fantastic work
8)
you also need to pick up the tribal rules
...got that covered...works for that small scale skirmish ;)
I plan on using Muskets & Tomahawks (at this point) with my own twist on things...
-
Lovely figures, Rolf. I like the different skin tones on the maori, and I really like the moko you've done on the leader - nice job.
I like the fact those maori are attacking the settlement with the pig in it - got their eyes on the kune-kune pig for a hangi later? ;D
-
These Eureka figures look really nice. I've heard about these Māori figures for a about a year now, but repeated visits to the Eureka site haven't turned them up. So it is good to see they are now being talked about more.
That's great work on painting those figures, too. Lon's facial moko has worked really well - I might just give my own Empress figures another try at moko using this technique.
I know it is a little bit out of the period Eureka are aiming at, but the missing party amongst the combined Eureka and Empress ranges are western-dressed Māori for the later wars of the 1860s/70s (wearing waistcoats, for example - and even the occasional bowler hat à la Goldie).
-
These Eureka figures look really nice. I've heard about these Māori figures for a about a year now, but repeated visits to the Eureka site haven't turned them up. So it is good to see they are now being talked about more.
That's great work on painting those figures, too. Lon's facial moko has worked really well - I might just give my own Empress figures another try at moko using this technique.
I know it is a little bit out of the period Eureka are aiming at, but the missing party amongst the combined Eureka and Empress ranges are western-dressed Māori for the later wars of the 1860s/70s (wearing waistcoats, for example - and even the occasional bowler hat à la Goldie).
Definately Roly, western dressed bearded Maori and bush rangers in shawls, your painting of the Perry intervention forces was spot on but we need opposition
-
Thanks Guys,
...got some more on the paint table so shall pop up a few more when I get them done...probably whack up a post on the blog now I have a few in hand and some other bits and bobs to go with it...
@Werewake
...well Ara, I thought they might be Kupapa the way they are facing!...though the pig's days are numbered I'd say!! :o
@Arteis/Lowartdog
Gents, I floated the idea of some more musket armed Maori and didn't get any bites in the initial post on this thread...though I think Eureka doing 6-8 would be a really good idea IMHO. That said, Empress Minis do a few packs and I can see why this may not be as appealing as they are sort of available though IMHO an additional 6-8 from Eureka would make for a really soldi range of musket armed Maori for the Musket and 1st Maori War.
That said, would their be any desire for 8-10 Ranger/militia type troops and an equal number of western dress maori for the 2nd/3rd maori war? I KNOW this CAN happen if enough people put their hand up...I've already had the conversation and it can be done fairly quickly (8 weeks-ish).
SO if we want them then it's up to us..we can have Alan Marsh sculpt them for Eureka and get the two main missing troop types to enable the 2nd/3rd Maori War forces to be more or less complete when combined with the Perry BIF troops. If a strip or two of spare heads are sculpted then the figures could be converted for further utility...that'd make for a pretty solid high quality figure line and open up the period considerably....
I can't do this alone so hands up folks if we want this to happen...we need fairly serious numbers to get it over the line ie 500 or so sales on 10 figure variations for each type...not too much really when spread across 10-12+ people when you consider the utility of the troops to stand in for multiple forces...
...what say you gentlemen?
(http://newzealandtourer.com/images/musket.jpg)
(http://newzealandwars.co.nz/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/RiverQueen061.jpg)
HW
-
How does it work Rolf? Is it like a kick starter?
-
"How does it work Rolf? Is it like a kick starter?"
Well, I have no idea how KS works and not that interested in going there. What I can say is that if we get enough people to commit then those figures will be sculpted (as I'm told). Just need to get people to say yes and give a number of troops they want.
Once the required number is reached, the research passed to the sculptor, then the figures get sculpted...nothing fancy like KS...just a bunch of people saying 'I want this' and if the numbers are there...then it can get done...
Personally, I'd easily be up for 50 of each type...that would provide all the troops I think I'd need for a solid skirmish game depicting late war Maori, Crown allies (Kupapa) and Forest Rangers/Militia. Combined with Perry BIF then that's got 4/5ths of it covered...maybe 9/10ths.
HW
-
Im in for it then,
Say 10 of later Maori and 10 militia types, id go 5 of each figure....where do I sign :D
-
I take it you mean 10 variants of each type and you'd get five each...for a total of 50 of Rangers and 50 Maori....is that correct?
I think I can rustle up another person interested in similar numbers so that would mean we'd be at 150 of the two types...a good start and around a quarter to a third way there...👏
...can we interest anyone else? ...and please feel free to ask around on any other forum to spread the word 👍
-
Thats spot on Rolf :)
-
30 of each for me, to go with my existing Perry British regulars.
(https://arteis.files.wordpress.com/2014/11/img_3402_a.jpg)
-
👍👍
Call it 200 of each type of each group of figures....
...so we need 400 more sales on each type....start stirring the pot gents...let's see what we can do to get it over the line...maybe a post on TMP would help...
Happy Wanderer
-
I know I'm going to regret this but...
Ok, I'm up for it, and as it'll be a completely new project (no Empress in the lead pile yet) I guess I'm going to need lots of Maoris?
More interested in 'colonial' than pre-contact, but I'll commit to c.100-120 assorted Maoris, c.24-30 Rangers and the same number of Kupapa, once I've worked out what the hell they are!
Better get those books you've been nagging me to buy!
Simon
-
Hey Simon,
Well done that man.
There's another 100 Maoris so we are pretty much a third to half way....very roughly. So if we get 600 of both types then that creates about 6, perhaps 8, variants. If we get 800 figures of each type then we can get about 8-10 variants...I believe the math is something like that but numbers may shift a bit. If you add in head variants then more variation from the same figure is created. Anyway the more people the better!!
Can we find some more people to commit so I can get Eureka Minis to look into this further, then we can get some research on what's best to get done and some images, etc.
As this is my thread I'm happy to hijack it or should we start a new research thread on 1860s Maoris and Forest Rangers??
What say you chaps??
;)
PS... Kupapa - in essence, they are Crown allied Maori - their involvement is a little complicated but if you want to listen to the author of a recent comprehensive book on the Kupapa who gave a talk on his book I suggest you do so as it is a rather comprehensive discussion and very enlightening...great to paint by ;)
http://www.nzhistory.net.nz/files/sound/hg-talks/ron-crosby.mp3
Book is here. I haven't got it, but it looks pretty good..(I have Crosby's Musket Wars book and it is superb). If anyone has Kupapa it'd be great to see a review.
http://www.roncrosby.co.nz/
(https://static.wixstatic.com/media/0b2c7a_c7176ef7f3ad423887b228effdb80427.jpg/v1/fill/w_302,h_408,al_c,lg_1,q_80/0b2c7a_c7176ef7f3ad423887b228effdb80427.jpg)
-
Wow - just a few days ago I sent a question to Empress to ask whether they had plans to expand their range to include Maori with western clothes and facial hair, and Forest Rangers/militia including some wearing rapaki/bush kilt! Very excited to see this pop up here. I would commit to:
40 x Rangers/militia
50 x Maori
Where/how do I sign up?
-
Actually - add for me another Maori x 20 as Kupapa.
-
Good timing Goliad...
The other point worth mentioning is that Forest Rangers also do as militia...no problem. So you get quite a bit of use out of those figure types....with head swaps, even more so...as they can do duty as Maori as well!!
Here is a very interesting read on Von Tempsky and the Rāpaki.
http://www.projectfreerange.com/the-rapaki-a-hybrid-couture/
Note the uniforms of the armed constabulary wearing the Rāpaki...shawl...with slouch hat which would bean easy head swap to make some late war Maori out of...
By the way, what did Empress say??
-
Forest Rangers.
For those unfamiliar with them, here is the blurb from Stowers' book on the Rangers...a mandatory buy on the topic....
Von Tempsky and the Forest Rangers
History of the Forest Rangers during the New Zealand Wars.
“The legendary Forest Rangers were an irregular corps that fought during the New Zealand Wars. Raised initially for scouting duties with the British Imperial forces prior to the invasion of the Waikato, the Forest Rangers soon proved themselves adept at bushfighting against North Island Maori resisting the dubious land-grabbing policies of the Colonial Government.
“Never more than 100 strong, and superbly led by the indomitable soldier-settler William Jackson and the Prussian adventurer Gustav von Tempsky, the Forest Rangers took the fight to Maori in their own bush environment.
“Armed with breech-loading carbines, fighting knifes and revolvers, the men were well equipped and skilled in close-quarter fighting. Amongst their ranks were ex-British soldiers, disaffected seamen, out-of-luck gold miners and gentlemen adventurers, all eager for action and the ‘Queen’s shilling’. An added incentive was the promise of confiscated Maori land.
“Romanticised by Colonial writers of the day but considered ill disciplined by British officers, the Forest Rangers were much feared by Maori. Their campaigning in the Waikato, Taranaki and East Coast wars was both arduous and ruthless, as they searched for and engaged Maori.
“Resourceful in both combat and bushcraft, the Forest Rangers were considered the elite of the colonial units and in later years many an old soldier made spurious claims of having served alongside the dashing von Tempsky. However, their aggressive waging of war against Maori in actions such as the Battle of Orakau and the sacking of Rangiaowhia still generates unease and controversy today.” (Hugh Keane)
236 pages plus cover. Richly illustrated. Numerous maps.
-
Might I suggest if we go down this route, we consult with someone with expertise on the uniforms and equipment. I'm thinking of someone like Bruce Cairns here in NZ for the colonial militia/Forest Rangers - he's a reenactor and historian mainly, but he also has some experience of wargaming too.
-
Excellent suggestion Roly,
But before that we will need the numbers to get it over the line. Eureka won't be 'sponsoring' this, we'll need to get the numbers I described above. If so then the detail of uniform detail and possible multi use of the figures can be worked on...
Cheers
Happy Wanderer
-
Brings back happy memories of reading Errol Braithwaite's trilogy, which I still own: 'The Evil Day', 'The Flying Fish', and 'The Needle's Eye'. Good luck with the project.
Robert
-
..finished up the last of the Eureka Maori (excluding one figure)...they look the part me thinks ;)
They paint up quite quickly actually and have lots of variation for sure..
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-S9b-EDH3qyk/V15sZrk12MI/AAAAAAAAGUk/yCtwT1V18E8q-iksVbzxafrYrp4qzXBzgCCo/s1024/IMG_2813.JPG)
-
By the way, what did Empress say??
I have not had an answer yet. This initiative seems more promising!
-
"I have not had an answer yet. This initiative seems more promising!"
Funny thing with these things is that often mini manufacturers drive the market...Perry, Empress and Warlord being classic examples. Who would've thought the Carlist war would sell..yet look at the Perry range adn numerous armies built. I'm guessing if Empress added about 4-5 packs for the 2nd/3rd Maori War to cover the above figures we are talking about then they'd sell more early Maori figures as well and pretty much open up the entire period..and cover it to. Perry's could do the same...look at the up take on the Cape Wars...no one was talking Cape Wars before...now there is a burgeoning range and people buying them saying I must have, I must have...
It's very hard for individuals to push prospective sculpting lines toward a manufacturer IMO rather than have the manufacturer influence the market and have buyers follow and develop an interest.
So we will push as hard as we can to get as many figure sale commitments as we can to reduce as much risk as possible to the manufacturer and hopefully they take the plunge and produce the figures in the knowledge that eventually they get it back in sales over the ensuing life of the figure range.
After all, the Eureka pre contact Maoris are much less attractive for sale I would've thought compared to the more well documented 2nd/3rd Maori War yet there are 17 figures in the range...that's pretty much all that are need to do the entire 2nd/3rd Maori War which is the biggest conflict of the entire colonial conflict in New Zealand...so that is Eureka driving the market and hoping to get money back for its investment...
I hope we can get there as I can't see an y manufacturers any time soon just deciding to do it....like I said, 10-12 people is all we'd really need...
Maybe an email to Empress to direct them to this thread would be worthwhile ;)
-
Oh alright, put me down for 50 of the maori. Even though I don't really have an interest in 2nd/3rd wars, I guess I could use them for westernised maori hanging out around the settlements/whaling boats.
Lovely paintjobs, btw, Rolf. I like the taneko patterns you've done on the collars etc - shows real dedication. That dude near the back, who has the 'spear' stuck through his hand - that's a bullroarer/pureruhoa. The other end goes in his hand, so he's kinda holding onto the string as he swings it around. Looks great as a spear, though - I reckon just leave it like that.
(http://consciouslifenews.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/bullroarer-man-01.jpg)
As for Nic and his decisions on ranges, I think he likes to do what interests him - eg Tupi, Maori, Hawaiians, the Bosch-like demons etc. Get him interested/excited in Maori wars, and the rangers/kupapa, and I reckon you'd have a good chance of getting him enthused to make them. I think it's the same with the Perry's and a lot of manufacturers - they're more likely to do ranges that keeps them interested in sculpting or casting the figures. ...I dunno this for sure, of course - I'm no manufacturer of wargaming figures. :)
-
The Perry twins have spent a lot of time in New Zealand, and are very aware of the colonial New Zealand Wars.
-
I received a reply from Empress - later period figures reportedly are possible, depending on demand. I sent a link to this thread.
-
@Arteis
Yes, the Perry's no doubt are fully conversant with NZ stuff and I suspect that with their expanding Victorian line that perhaps in the future something may come of that. Their Cape Wars Brits and BIF note the utility for the NZ wars so it seems a logical extension.
@Goliad.
That's interesting news. It's a natural fit for Empress off course and as I mentioned above only an extra 4-6 codes would probably do the job. One hopes that 300+ initial commitments would be enough to show that it'd be a solid start to getting them done and probably would more than push along the entire line for Empress and garner more wide spread enthusiasm/support. Having Paul Hicks sculpts that were the same style to match the 1st Maori War line would also be a nice fit.
I agree with Arteis however, that we get some solid research to whom ever does them and make a good job of it, allowing maximum utility of the sculpts.
Hopefully, Empress and/or Eureka will run with it...
Currently we have roughly folks saying they'll pony up for;
400 Maoris types
300 Ranger types
..not bad after 4 days....
-
Yep, good research is essential. I think back, for example, to Old Glory when they did a range of militia/armed constabulary in rapaki kilts, but left them in bare feet instead of socks and boots.
-
I'm good for twenty Maori, and cannot wait for them to be available.
-
Ok prospective buyers,
Looks like the pot is stirred.
I/you/we need each others help now...
I described what figures I anticipated would be good to fill out the 1860s period but now can I ask from you all what you'd like to see within the bounds of the figures we have discussed i.e. 1860s Maoris and Forest Rangers/Militia.
How many types, head swap options, figure pose types and basically anything else you think could be added to round out the 1860s as a viable period using, most likely, the perry BIF british as as the basis of the British Forces and these figures as the issuing troops that are needed.
...your thoughts will be sent to the prospective mini company for their considerations...so NOW is the time to have your say...strike while the iron is hot gentlemen, you may just get what you wish for...
Please speak up so these ideas can be rolled into the latest release notes for the existing Maori figures by Eureka...
Cheers
Happy Wanderer
-
My suggestion as a 'starter for ten points' - feel free to add to or amend!
Forest Rangers:
- Four rangers in four separte skirmishing poses.
- Also an officer as per the pic:
(https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/03/9c/87/039c87c1f307c833a30ff9c21250e9ac.jpg)
(http://www.planetfigure.com/attachments/forest-ranger-480x640-jpg.132992/)
Maori:
- mix of half-a-dozen skirmish types in part western dress (as per the Maori on the far right in first pic below)
- variations in the western dress
- maybe one or two types doing haka
- could include an obviously kupapa figure or two like the bottom pic of a Maori scout.
(https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/bb/00/84/bb008432d66d2a378bd4f0d1e284af52.jpg)
(https://i0.wp.com/arteis.files.wordpress.com/2016/06/pa-fight.jpg?ssl=1)
(http://www.planetfigure.com/attachments/m4-jpg.147747/)
Armed Constabulary
- four constables in about four separate skirmish poses
- mix of shirts/hats as per the pic
- also one officer as per the pic (though posed to match the constables)
(https://arteis.files.wordpress.com/2012/12/ac2.jpg)
(https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/ec/c0/97/ecc0976a8474a5c469aa58c0430e0df5.jpg)
(http://ipmsnz.hobbyvista.com/Nats01/images/constabulary.jpg)
-
Hi, some ideas:
4 x Forest Rangers Skirmishing with Terry carbines
4 x Forest Rangers "character pack" - maybe including a couple figs wearing Rapaki/kilt with carbine (The Forest Rangers had probably started wearing the kilt), and a "grizzled NCO" type with bowie knife.
1 x officer figure
1x "Von Tempsky" specialty figure
4 x skirmishing "Pakeha (European) Maori" with mixed weapons (the image below looks like Tom Adamson has a Terry carbine. Note the socks) as Ranger/Militia scouts or to join the Kupapa.
(http://www.projectfreerange.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/Fig-4.jpg)
4 x skirmishing "kupapa" Maori
4 x Militia/Constabulary in Rapaki/kilt, shirts, mixed hats and snider rifles
4 x Constabulary in uniform with Rapaki/kilt, snider rifles
4 x officer/NCO/bugler pack for milita/constabulary
4 x Skirmishing later Maori
4 x advancing Maori with hand weapons
4 x Later Maori character pack including leaders
Maybe separate heads (or hats!) for more variety.
Well that's a wish list - what a manufacturer is willing to do will probably differ - but got to put it out there!
-
Some excellent suggestions gents and visual ideas...I believe we should have the basis for the types to suggest to Eureka...we shall see where it takes us.
I think the priority should be Late War Maori types and Forest Rangers. These should come with head swap for maxim utility...let's say 5 Maori heads and 5 'Victorian' wooly beards white men types.
The specifics of these would encompass the ideas proposed. Goliad's extensive list lays out some nice details along with the other suggestions and pics...to me, that would be an ideal list.
Fingers crossed these minis materialise in one form or another.
I suspect that getting a few more figures done would be to range's benefit as the more variation provides more options for players to buy into the period as a whole. That off course is a commercial decision for Eureka.
I also think that (ideally) 8 figures of Early period Maori with muskets would tie in very well with the 17 pre contact Maori figures Eureka already have for maximum utility of this range in the Musket Wars and 1840s....though they still work in the 1860s as well.
Happy Wanderer
-
Hi All :)
Just to chip in very briefly, but just to reassure you that we (Empress) are following this thread with great interest. There has been some really useful discussion and we are most certainly taking note.
We aren't in a position to start working on sculpts straight away (production is planned 8 to 12 + months in advance generally) but I can definitely say that this show of interest in the period has persuaded us to look at our current plans for this range.
We do offer a range sponsorship scheme and this 'can' jump queues. Perhaps you guys could consider banding together and work something out? If this is of interest then drop us an e mail for details.
A big thanks to everyone who's contributed so far, and feel free to mail us directly with suggestions and feedback.
-
That is great news, Keith. It would be a natural extension to your current range.
In the meantime, I might contact Bruce Cairns (65th Regiment of Foot Hickety-Pips reenactor, and also technical advisor for a number of NZ movies set during the colonial NZ Wars). He may give some useful advice on uniforms and equipment.
-
Gents,
Just to let you know, this thread, or purpose, is not 'dead'.
I'm hoping to have some more info on the proposed figures we have discussed thus far in the coming days. For now though, it is excellent that the two leading figure manufacturers of Maori figures can see the potential...an untapped opportunity IMHO.
Whom ever is prepared to run with it, it would seem, that they have already several hundred figure orders ready to go...and that's just a handful of people thus far...
Regards
Happy Wanderer
-
Eureka have just announced a new release bundle of 18 Maori figures, the new Tribal rule book and a MDF Maori canoe.
-
Nick Stern on the Maori Wargaming egroup has pledged 50+ figures (he can't post here yet).
;)
(For some reason he hadn't been accepted on the LAF registration yet..maybe an administrator can sort that for him) :)
-
Nick Stern reporting for duty.
I am happy to make a pledge for 20 Forest Rangers and 30 Maori in European clothing.
-
A nice post by Arteis on getting these figures done.
https://arteis.wordpress.com/2016/06/26/1860s-maori-wars-and-ww2-dutch/
At the moment there is nothing else to add beyond what he said but the more people we can get the better so if this subject is of interest to you, or anyone you know, then please seize the day and join in on this grassroots effort by pledging to buy some of these figures, the first of their type to be sculpted.
Cheers
Happy Wanderer
-
(https://arteis.files.wordpress.com/2016/06/9064_charles_goldie_a_good_joke_canvas_print.jpg)
-
I'd be up for some armed civilians, western dressed Maori that I could use for 1860s North America, I realise that it would exclude figures in Maori style kilts but figures in trousers and bowler hats etc would be ideal.
-
Hey Moose,
How many of the western style Maori would you be looking to get?
Cheers
Happy Wanderer
-
Gents,
Just a note - the latest Eureka Miniatures newsletter had this comment...
"If there is sufficient interest from you, our customers, for post-contact (gun powder armed) warriors, we will make them. We have included brief details in the 100 Club section at the foot of this Newsletter and full details are available by writing to nicr@eurekamin.com.au"
So if anyone has already registered a desire to buy in this thread can they contact Nic please so he can gauge the 'real' orders so he can make decision on the prospective figures.
Cheers
Happy Wanderer
-
Gents,
To all who responded on this thread to 'commit' to figure purchases, may I ask that you please put in your orders to Eureka to keep the momentum of the 2nd Maori Wars sculpts going. Things are progressing but it will require all hands on deck to get it to happen. I’ve made a few further comments related to this topic on the ‘proposed figures’ thread’.
Thank you.
http://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=91678.0
Regards
Happy W
-
They didn't make their goal did they?
Mark
-
Sadly, no. See the 'bad news' part of this posting on my blog:
https://arteis.wordpress.com/2016/08/15/good-news-and-bad-news/
-
What a shame but certainly worth a go
-
Worth a go...and worth keeping alive....
Basically if we can find a little more impetus then they can still be sculpted...it's just that they didn't get their in the time frame set by a Eureka.
However, in reality, there is no time frame. If more people register their interest with Eureka then there is no reason that this can't be a slower burn project. People's interest comes and goes and if some new blood steps up these can still get there. They would be a great range of figures and open the period up a lot.
So if your interested then register your interest here and with Eureka...stir the pot...and we just may get there...or our friends at Empress can grab it and run with the idea as well....either manufacturer is a 'win' IMO.
I see that Osprey have just released their new colonial skirmish rules The Men Who Would Be King with a blurb that says
"...Although focusing on the British colonial wars against the Zulus, Maoris and others..."
Why not kick off a new period with this new fast playing system...new rules, new period and new figures...what's not to like ;)
Ever hopeful...
Happy Wanderer
-
Agreed - for both MWWBK or 'Sharp Practice' you'd only need 50-70 figures per side for a good game; and it wouldn't take that many additional orders of that size to make the project viable for Empress or Eureka.
-
By all means contact us with a few orders of 70 Maori and there is every chance we would get over the line.
We still have the research and the details of those who signed on.
I'll keep my eyes peeled for e-mails.
Nic EUREKA MINIATURES
-
In TMWWBK 1860s Maoris would be classed as Irregulars, not Tribal. Though if you took a non firearm units of Maoris then they would best be treated as tribal using Dan Mersey's guidelines allowing for more figures/units. It'd be possible to field a 'traditional' Maori unit from Tītokowaru's prophet forces as non firearm if you want.
Therefore, most Maori forces come in at 4pts a unit, each 12 figures strong by following the guidelines below fromTMWWBK. With the ability to upgrade units that'd make for a Maori force off around 48-72 figs...a nice fit. The respective Colonial forces would hover around the 5-7pt mark giving 4 units of Forest Rangers ie 50 or so figures.
...this would make for an fine small force for the 1860s Maori conflict using TMWWBK.
😉
Regular units: 6 points per unit.
Irregular units: 4 points per unit.
Tribal units: 3 points per unit.
Crewed weapons: 4 or 6 points per weapon.
I'm sure most colonial players will be able to work out the likely differences between Regular, Irregular, and Tribal, but bear in mind I suggest fielding tribesmen who are good shots (e.g., Pathans) as Irregular infantry rather than Tribal, and reserving the latter for proper spear/sword/shield types.
Forces can be adjusted by upgrading or downgrading some unit abilities as explained in the full rules; however, you cannot keep downgrading a unit to cost less than 2 points, or upgrading above 9 points.
Recommended unit sizes
My suggested unit sizes are as follows, although you can adjust them as you wish (which will impact on points values):
Regular and Irregular infantry: 12 models per unit.
Regular and Irregular cavalry: 8 models per unit.
-
Another period to tempt me.......
-
I've posted some (very) initial thoughts about using TMWWBK for the colonial NZ Wars on my blog here: https://arteis.wordpress.com/2017/01/21/8500/
-
Nice one Roly,
I'm interested in your thoughts on TMWWBK for Maori Wars.
;)
-
... and vice versa, Happy Wanderer!
-
I picked it up last year, i think my issue has been too many sets of rules and projects last year lol
the rules seem good however i prefer muskets and tomshawks for maori wars, they did have me trawling colonial ranges of miniatures having sold my dabblings a good few years ago, zulu wars and second boer war in the past.
unit size and clasdification is a tricky one for maori wars, i think happy wanderer has it right in the earlier post as to me 16 figue for a maori units doesnt feel quite right.
Also i think what is something i struggle with is representing a unit based on the miniatures available. I think the obsolete musket is a good solution or rather compromise as in the empress, eureka range you do have hand weapon warrior where these rules abstract that for me quite well.
I had looked at sharpe practice 2 but colonial guerilla forces just dont sit quite right in tjose rules.
similar but slightly different i pkan on jacobite rebellion and classifying highlanders doesnt fit in for me with sharpe practice
it is getting the feel of the forces without making units too big or costly (by giving units special rules or reflecting their style of warfare)
Looking forward to both of your thoughts
-
TFL's new Guerrilla pdf may have you thinking again on that matter.
-
I had a quick look and it looks canny especially as i have Spanish for the penninsula too :D
-
If they were sculpted by Paul Hicks for Empress Minis I would be interested. The quality of his sculpts are amazing. Have you thought of approaching Paul Hicks directly and maybe arranging a kick starter with say a small range of Bush Rangers and say six Maori in European clothing to start with and get your own casting done directly? Then you could maybe add other miniatures as stretch goals? Just an idea.