Lead Adventure Forum
Other Stuff => Workbench => Topic started by: Peithetairos on July 02, 2016, 10:34:46 AM
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Hiho,
for almost a year now I was thinking about crafting a nice skirmish board set during the Second Punic War. I see there is a similar topic already, so maybe we can pass notes etc. The initial set will feature a vineyard (with the vine being cultivated on elmes as opposed to modern methods) a Villa Rustica and a small stream. I wrote the whole thing up on my blog, check it out if you like:
Skirmish Board Tutorial part 1 (https://daggerandbrush.wordpress.com/2015/10/01/elmes-love-the-vines-the-vines-with-elmes-abide-a-modular-skirmish-board-set-during-the-second-punic-war-part-i/)
The layout would be as follows:
(https://daggerandbrush.files.wordpress.com/2016/06/90-by-90-sketch.png?w=474)
The idea is to have modules that can be freely combined and extended. So I might start with 4 and then later extend to 16 or 24 etc.Each module would be laser cut and measure 1 foot by 1 foot (or 30.48cm x 30.48cm) to assure a proper fit. They would then be filled with XPS foam to carve the terrain features. Each side would feature between 2 and 4 magnets, so would the base, to hold everything in place. So nothing new, but tailored to my personal requirements.
I am still in the experimenting phase and was looking at different materials: 0.9mm or 1.8mm Bamboo veneer, 2 or 3mm MDF etc. and even thought about inlays to fancy the whole thing up.
I came up with the following profiles:
(https://daggerandbrush.files.wordpress.com/2016/06/outlines-for-blog-post.png?w=474)
As I am still finalizing my designs I would be interested in your opinion in terms of material, design etc. Maybe you have some suggestions how to improve it further. I am very conscious of weight so while the 3mm MDF is cheap and easy to get, it would also be comparatively heavy if I have 16 or 24 tiles to carry arround. I thought of cutting a geometric design in the base to reduce the weight and then back this with thin card. Another factor is visible wood grain. It would surely look very nice to have this and I could stain the wood, but MDF can be painted easily.
I am less concerned about warping. Given that each tile will have 20mm of foam in it and the wooden frames will be sealed no matter what I use, they should hopefully not warp much, if at all. I would also hope that the frame and base will stabilize themselves, given the pegs.
In any case, I summarized my thought process and experiments on my blog in a second article, just click the picture below. Any comments would be appreciated.
(https://daggerandbrush.files.wordpress.com/2016/06/forum-link-zu-post.jpg?w=474) (http://wp.me/p49oPQ-Bb)
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What a detailed tutorial and clever idea.
Very well thought out and presented. Will follow with interest.
Nice blog too.
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Hi Furt,
glad you like it. The idea is not new. I got some inspiration from the Back to Basix guys, but changed it to be less abstract in terms of depicting inclines etc. I think a Back to Basix table using 24 tiles comes in at 6kg, which is quite a bit and might be even heavier with terrain sculpted on top. My goal is to get down to say 2.5 to 3kg with terrain features. Not sure if I can achieve this, but it would be ideal, as I want to take stuff on planes etc. if necessary.
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Clever idea, very clever idea.
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Great concept! My only comment would be that there is a risk that the "teeth" on each tile might get worn since thin mdf can be a bit brittle. I use a much simpler concept since I have decided to only use it for skirmishes. It is a framed board 70 x 100 cm in which I make typically 2-3 tiles to fit within this format for different terrain types. The tiles have only "straight" edges. I look forward to see your progress. Thanks for posting!
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I don't know if you are planning on cutting the stuff yourself, but I know there are services out there that cut sheets of aluminium to shape. The stuff isn't that hard to work with and much lighter.
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@traveller: I did consider a frame to hold it all together, but I might go all up to the 6 by 4 feet in some point or anything in between. I also thought of multilevel tables. I think the free standing modules might be more suitable for this.
I would hope that the pegs will not stick out on any side. I will aslo seal the MDf (or plywood) so there should be no problem with it breaking off.
@YPU: I like the idea with the aluminium. I guess 0.45mm thickness would be light yet stiff enough, but I am not sure this can be laser cut easily. I think thicker sheets might come out at the same weight as the MDF. Would I not need to weld the pieces together? If so, that would complicate things quite a bit as I don't have any experience with welding. If you have soem experience with aluminium of a similar thikcness let me know, I would be interested in your experiences.
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@YPU: I like the idea with the aluminium. I guess 0.45mm thickness would be light yet stiff enough, but I am not sure this can be laser cut easily. I think thicker sheets might come out at the same weight as the MDF. Would I not need to weld the pieces together? If so, that would complicate things quite a bit as I don't have any experience with welding. If you have soem experience with aluminium of a similar thikcness let me know, I would be interested in your experiences.
You might be better of doing some sort of indexing guts at the end, and maybe glueing those. My experience with Alu is limited to small pieces used in jewellery, and its a bitch to solder with a burner I can tell you.
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I´m in a planning phase of a nearby similar Table Concept. My Plan is to use 3mm Black Acrylic for the Boxes.
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Thank you YPU for the advise. Seems a bit complicate for now, but I keep it in mind for future iterations.
Deltadog: I actually thought about Acrylic, but found the cost per sheet too high for the Punic war board, as I may go to the full 6 x 4 in the future. That said, I would love to have a small Frostgrave board, too, that uses semi translucent or frosted acrylic. I might try this down the road as the fiel setup is the same for 3mm MDF and the acrylic.
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Thank you YPU for the advise. Seems a bit complicate for now, but I keep it in mind for future iterations.
Your right, purely material strength for weight its a great idea, actual construction not so much.
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I started a similar project. Though it needs to be finished ::). I went with a laser cut frame and cut hardboard on a table saw for the tops. Granted mine is for a city and not country side. You may want to put crossbars in for support. But a prototype will sort that out.
Here is the dusty thread.
http://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=81896.msg1005288#msg1005288
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Hi audry,
thank you for the link. I like the idea to have crossabrs, but I think this might not be necessary for the 30 by 30cm modules. Anything bigger will need soem more support.
I made some more test cuts and given making the frames lightweight was one of my goals, I designed two solutions that would reduce the overall weight.
Here are the profiles:
(https://daggerandbrush.files.wordpress.com/2016/06/img_1038.jpg?w=474)
The first idea was to simply cut a geometrical pattern in the base to reduce the weight:
(https://daggerandbrush.files.wordpress.com/2016/06/img_1043.jpg?w=474)
Another option, in my opinion the more elegant one, is to have four separate pieces that form the base:
(https://daggerandbrush.files.wordpress.com/2016/06/frame-separate-pieces.png?w=474)
I think this design for the base is superior as you will get more sections out of a sheet of MDF. The disadvantage could be stability, but I first need to glue the frame together to see how it compares to the other design.
(https://daggerandbrush.files.wordpress.com/2016/06/img_1040.jpg?w=474)
A dry fit looks already promising. The base sections fit together well and with the sides attached the constructions gains stability. This configuration only weights 150 g.
I now will buy some shellac to treat the MDF and then glue the frames together. I will also make a third variant with 1.8mm Bamboo plywood for the sides and MDF base and see how that compares.
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Looks very promising.
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I'm guessing the holes in the bottom are for connecting to "spacer" frames to allow for larger hills? in any case I could very well see myself paying for a bunch of these.
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@YPU:
Yes, that was the idea. The flat top profile would then go underneath and could lift any tile to 4cm. I might be an idea to add some other heights so that one can gradually elevate the tiles without limiting combinations.
Another use would be if you put some ferro-magnetic sheet underneath. The tiles would then be firmly attached to each other and the table.
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Nice looking frames. The only problem i can see is the newest design could be prone to warping and/or twisting. The frames dont look strong enough by themselves to prevent that and you may need some bracing or a solid bottom.
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@6mmfan: Yes, this is a concern. I think the only way I will find out if it is indeed a problem is to finish one module and see if any of the techniques used causes warping. That said, the MDF will be sealed with Shellac, and I will use glue sparingly to attach the styrofoam core. Anything that goes on top should be ok, as the styrofoam will isolate the underlying wood. It might be a good idea to sculpt, sand and paint the styrofoam core outside the frame and then put it in for final assembly. Mainly to reduce any mechanical stress on the frame. With humidity as a cause for warping eliminated I think mechanical stress is what might cause issues. But we will see :).
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Believe it or not, work finally progressed on my forest encounter board using the frames shown above. It is still WIP, but I think the frames work well.
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That's a lovely finish 8)
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Very nice. I take it these all fit together?
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Well done, impressive finish.
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That looks sweet. Lovely job. It will be cool to see the boards going together.
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Glad you like the module thus far. I will add a lot more details to give the eye something to look for and rest on. I am, however, pleased that it came out looking so naturalistic. This is my first forest base and I think it will truly come together when I place the trees etc.
All modules will fit together at least at one side up to all sides. This reduces interchangeability, but gives me more leeway having sloping hills, rock faces, river sections etc. or even underground elements.
I am working on a second element right now, which features some flagstones and will also have, depending on module chosen: a ruined structure, standing stones or hedge growth.
(https://daggerandbrush.files.wordpress.com/2017/08/forest-board-flagstones.jpg?w=600)
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Yes, that looks very nice. 8)
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Glad you like the two modules Codsticker.
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Looks very nice - but how do you store/transport it? I've made modular boards before covered in fur (6mm MDF) but storage and protection were significant problems. Intruged how you have solved this.
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The modules are fairly light (around 250g) given the bottom part is not solid. So I intend to get some foam and cut 30 by 30 squares out of it with the right depth. With some cardboard or foam to separate modules I should be able to stack two or three on top of each other, in a case 40 x 40 x 15. That would be three boxes for a skirmish board.