Lead Adventure Forum
Miniatures Adventure => Medieval Adventures => Topic started by: Stuart on July 20, 2016, 04:48:29 PM
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Calling all heraldry buffs
I've tried in vain to find the heraldry of Richard De la Pole, 5th Duke of Suffolk, the white Rose, d. 1525 so I've attempted to piece it together.
I started with the arms of his older brother and used a ring symbol to indicate that he was the fifth son but don't know if that should be on a bar?
Fully aware that in reality no one is really going to care with the depths of pedantry that this task has befallen me but any thoughts or examples of fifth heirs in heraldry would be appreciated.
Stuart
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P.S. My design is for a flag
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I could very well be wrong, but I seem to recall that he would only need to bear the ring on his arms while his brother was alive. Once he became de jure duke (and only surviving member of the line) he would bear the arms without difference (as there could be no confusion to whom the same arms belonged). In the same way his brother's arms would have been labelled while their father was alive, but not after.
In short his arms would be the same as his brother's at that point.
One of heraldry's 'unofficial' rules, Cadency was something that could result in immense confusion if it was followed rigorously. For example, it could be possible for someone to bear exactly the same arms as his uncle (which would not be permitted), or to need a mass of symbols to display that he was the third son, of a fourth son, of a first son etc. I'm led to believe therefore that it was a convenience (in England at least), to only display marks as required and when confusion might possibly arise.
Somebody with a good knowledge of heraldry should be able to give a more concrete answer though... and I'm not that guy. :)
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I agree with Arlequin - he would be using his father's arms if there were no surviving brothers
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Arlequin and TadPortly are quite correct - he only needed to difference the arms while his father and brother were alive (and died without other heirs taking precedence over him).
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I agree. :)