Lead Adventure Forum
Miniatures Adventure => Fantasy Adventures => Topic started by: sukhe_bator on January 26, 2009, 09:11:17 AM
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Anyone out there who also did not like the LoTR Peter Jackson versions of Tolkeins War elephants?
I decided to make my own, smaller (still at least 4x normal), but less fantastical ones...
(http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x200/sukhe_bator/Haradrim/Mumak1headdetail.jpg~original)(http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x200/sukhe_bator/Haradrim/Mumakil011.jpg~original)(http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x200/sukhe_bator/Haradrim/mumak5revised2.jpg~original)
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Looks really good.
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Those are gorgeous - even if I did like the Jackson take. What is your base?
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I like what you've done - and to me these look much more like the Mumakills of the book.
Tony
http://dampfpanzerwagon.blogspot.com/
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All the elephants are toy plastics culled from various toy and charity shops. A couple are from Schleich. The rest is down to lots of hours and lots of Milliput and Green stuff. I've based them on existing elephant armours like the mail and plate armour at the Royal Armouries in Leeds. I've tried to base them on different armour styles, so one is bronze scale armour, one mail and plate, one lamellar etc. Osprey have a new Vanguard publication on War elephants through history which is well worth looking at. I'm using Armies of Arcana, which is a good generic fantasy ruleset. Each model fits on a rectangular base 75mm x 100mm
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A couple of pics of the prototype howda shape I'll be using on my warherd. Designed to maximise crew size, missile protection and fields of fire
(http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x200/sukhe_bator/Haradrim/Howda1.jpg~original)
(http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x200/sukhe_bator/Haradrim/Howda2.jpg~original)
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This is a great looking project. I can't believe they were toy elephants! :o
What figure did u use for mahout?
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That's a great elephant!
Can't wait to see it finished.
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I like what you've done - and to me these look much more like the Mumakills of the book.
Tony
http://dampfpanzerwagon.blogspot.com/
i totally agree.
Congratulations man, beautiful job
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The Mahout is a (very limber) Redoubt Miniatures Mughal. I bought a small selection many years ago and decided the would drive my Mumaks. I wanted a combination of smallish shield and armoured figure, reckoning that they were pretty vulnerable up front, and most Mughal miniatures depict the mahouts with some form of armour for just that reason. All I have to do is make the elephant goad for the right hand
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Apart from a job well done, I feel the size of your Mūmaks is a lot better for gaming than the huge GW ones (though they are to scale with the film ones probably).
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I agree about the scale of the film Mumaks - too big! You could get a horse under my Mumaks but not a horse and rider. However, if you put 28mm cavalry in front of my Mumaks they look quite scarily big enough!
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This gives you an idea of the scale
(http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x200/sukhe_bator/Haradrim/DSC02220.jpg~original)
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The Mumakil finally in action at Salute 2010
(http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x200/sukhe_bator/Salute%202010%20AoA%20game/IMG_1349.jpg~original)
(http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x200/sukhe_bator/Salute%202010%20AoA%20game/IMG_1351.jpg~original)
They fought valiantly and rained death on their foes!
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For our Naran Kharadrin army (Haradrim), we used the model of the Mithrill's Mumakil (30 mm) and the Hat's 1/32 scale model of the Carthaginian elephant with a modified home made tower.
See:
Leonida (Arcadia) vs Sauronassar (Sauron)
http://www.naran.it/FantasyWars/Immagini/Battaglie/Arcadia_Saunorassar/Arcadia_Saunorassar_02/Battaglia.html
http://www.naran.it/FantasyWars/Immagini/Battaglie/Arcadia_Saunorassar/Arcadia_Saunorassar_01/Battaglia.html
Iperborea (Rohan) vs Kharadrin (Haradrim)
http://www.naran.it/FantasyWars/Immagini/Battaglie/Varie/Battaglie_varie.html -
(http://www.naran.it/FantasyWars/Immagini/Battaglie/Arcadia_Saunorassar/Arcadia_Saunorassar_02/pics/Arcadia_vs_Sauronassar_11.jpg)
(http://www.naran.it/FantasyWars/Immagini/Battaglie/Arcadia_Saunorassar/Arcadia_Saunorassar_02/pics/Kharadrin_01.jpg)
(http://www.naran.it/FantasyWars/Immagini/Battaglie/Arcadia_Saunorassar/Arcadia_Saunorassar_02/pics/Arcadia_vs_Sauronassar_02.jpg)
(http://www.naran.it/FantasyWars/Immagini/Battaglie/Arcadia_Saunorassar/Arcadia_Saunorassar_01/pics/Arcadia_vs_Sauronassar_03.jpg)
(http://www.naran.it/FantasyWars/Immagini/Battaglie/Varie/Iperborea_vs_Kharadrin/pics/Iperborea_vs_Kharadrin_01.jpg)
Bye,
Sergio - Lord of the Bears
Naran Team Turin
http://www.naran.it/
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(http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x200/sukhe_bator/Salute%202010%20AoA%20game/IMG_1349.jpg)
Cute kid...........
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And an implaccable foe... calmly took out 2 dragons and loads of elvish cavalry with his Orc Hordes on the day!
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Amazinggg!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :o :o
Top game table, and very huge!!!!
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Check out Skrapwelders take on this idea from the work in progress section
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Lotb, I Like the Mithril Mumak and I like what you've done with the 1/32nd Carthaginian elephant. I'd never thought of doing that!
Four more sculpts are rolling off the production line.
(http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x200/sukhe_bator/Haradrim/Newbatch001-2.jpg~original)
These are a mixture of Schliech African elephants and a resin model I picked up at a zoo recently. None cost more than £5 each, and several were found in charity shops for under £1. Once you cost the 6 man crew, the milliput, green stuff and balsa used, each Mumak cost on average £10 to make.
(http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x200/sukhe_bator/Haradrim/Newbatch006-1.jpg~original)
(http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x200/sukhe_bator/Haradrim/Newbatch005-1.jpg~original)(http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x200/sukhe_bator/Haradrim/Newbatch004-1.jpg~original)
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Nice work there!!! :)
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These are far more in line with my idea of how Mumakil should look after reading the books. The film versions were just too big to be believable. The GW model isn't too bad, as it's considerably caled-down from the movie version, but really still too big (and expensive).
Yours are superb and really look the part. I also think you've made a great job of using proxy figures to give a very original and refreshingly different version of LOTR armies.
Please post more pics of the battle :D
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great job on the scales and fine idea to
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For the benefit of Gluteus Maximus and others who may have missed them, some pics of the London Gamers Armies of Arcana game at Salute 2010...
The fortress, defended by Dwarves and Humans dominates one end of the battlefield
(http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x200/sukhe_bator/Salute%202010%20AoA%20game/sahyun3.jpg~original)
The siege lines, Ocs on the left, Haradrim on the Right. The Dwarves and Humans seeing signs of a relief force of Elves etc. in the distance, sally forth to do battle
(http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x200/sukhe_bator/Salute%202010%20AoA%20game/IMG_1335.jpg~original)
The Orcs are attacked by one of the Dwarves' monster allies but they fend it off with volleys of arrows
(http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x200/sukhe_bator/Salute%202010%20AoA%20game/IMG_1341.jpg~original)
A large flying column of Elvish cavalry attempts to break through the siege lines
(http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x200/sukhe_bator/Salute%202010%20AoA%20game/IMG_1345.jpg~original)
But is headed off by the second wave of baddies...undead with titanic undead giants and halflings!
(http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x200/sukhe_bator/Salute%202010%20AoA%20game/IMG_1337.jpg~original)
The game develops into two separate rucks as the relief force marches across the river into the fray
(http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x200/sukhe_bator/Salute%202010%20AoA%20game/IMG_1342.jpg~original)
The defenders look on helplessly as the Relief force is thwarted. Despite the savage onslaught by the knights and dwarves the siege lines buckle but still hold
(http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x200/sukhe_bator/Salute%202010%20AoA%20game/IMG_1346.jpg~original)
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That was a stunning game and I really wish I took some pictures.
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For the benefit of Gluteus Maximus and others who may have missed them, some pics of the London Gamers Armies of Arcana game at Salute 2010...
Fantastic! Thanks very much for posting those. I haven't made Salute for many years, so it's always nice to see what goes on there.
I love those giants :-* They are truly impressive chaps and the fortress is also marvellous.
The sort of game I wish I could take part in!
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Truly a Ragnarok-scale fracas! Love the fort especially.
Many years ago I did some simple Mumakil conversions using toys I bought from the zoo gift shop (some of you have probably seen this page already)....
http://larsen-family.us/~1066/pelennor.html (http://larsen-family.us/~1066/pelennor.html)
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I know those well Merlin. They inspired me many years ago, along with John Treadaway's ideas
http://www.salute.co.uk/warlords/fantasy_gallery/images/mumak.jpg
Dr Haidar's work features some interesting reconstructions of elephant armour
http://openlibrary.org/books/OL2013939M/Islamic_arms_and_armour_of_Muslim_India
and more recently
http://www.ospreypublishing.com/store/War-Elephants_9781846032684
The eye defences were based on a rather fanciful illustration from David Day's Tolkein Bestiary. I've adapted the idea extensively
(http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x200/sukhe_bator/Haradrim/Newbatch001-3.jpg~original)
as well as incorporated several other features such as Mughal 'rabbit ear' defensive shields to screen the mahout
(http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x200/sukhe_bator/Haradrim/Newbatch003-2.jpg~original)
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I know those well Merlin. They inspired me many years ago, along with John Treadaway's ideas
http://www.salute.co.uk/warlords/fantasy_gallery/images/mumak.jpg
He did an article on his Mumak in either Military Modelling or Battle For Wargamers magazine years ago. I've still got it somewhere.
The eye defences were based on a rather fanciful illustration from David Day's Tolkein Bestiary. I've adapted the idea extensively
I thought I'd seen them somewhere before. It's still a book that's worth looking at :)
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Armored Mumakil, especially eye defenses, are cool looking but definitely NOT Middle-earth (Tolkien). Remember that the Rohirrim went around and finished off the Mumakil after the battle by shooting them in the eyes. There isn't any description in the book of armor. Apparently there was little need of it because of their thick hides. Only the eyes were immediately vulnerable.
But don't let my pedantry dissuade you! As I said, armored "elephants" look tons more cool than "nekked" ones....
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I know I know...
Under the Armies of Arcana ruleset there is not a great deal of difference between armoured and unarmoured elephants. The Mumaks are 2x the number of wounds of a conventional elephant and the Armour rating given to conventional elephants already reflects their tough hide. I can vouch for how tough it is having hefted an elephant hide shield (practically the same weight as a wooden one!) My Mumaks just have more 'set dressing' than most...
That's the great thing about Fantasy.
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That's the great thing about Fantasy.
Yes, you're never wrong in your own world, no matter wwhat the "experts" might say :)
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Yup.
Another reason why Historo-fantasy floats my boat, I can paint them close, but not perfect. I don't have to worry about voltigeur eppaluettes. :D
Your elephants look excellent, they have that nice fantasy, but with some historical cushion to them. Not too bonkers, but just different enough to be different.
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I love that phrase 'just different enough to be different'! I think that pretty well sums up all the obscure periods and unusual models I tend to gravitate towards lol
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lol, my English is pretty bad, you know!
Glad you knew what I meant, after typing it I realised it might make no sense, but couldn't be bothered to change it. ;D
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Excellent Mumaks. :-*
If I ever get around to starting finishing my LoTR project I'll steal mercilessly from this post.
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All my Mumaks are in the process of getting a howdah upgrade. Inspired by J Treadaway's article and a passing homage to the Mumakil of the Peter Jackson films, they will now have an additional, removable turret. This'll allow me to field 5 archers in the howdah making them even more imposing and a better missile platform. This is the prototype that is now rolling off the production line...
(http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x200/sukhe_bator/Haradrim/IMG_1426.jpg~original)
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For the benefit of Doomslave - this thread should answer most queries.
The main thing is to ensure the howdah looks like it should be able to sit comfortably on a framework straddling the elephant's spine without looking unbalanced or too unwieldy. It should look plausible. Once I had the prototype shell of the howdah each platform was individually tailored to the elephant using hidden wedges and glued in place. The rolling gait of the elephant meant in reality it needed to be well secured and of course the elephant usually kneels to allow crew on and off resulting in an alarming pitch forwards and backwards as the elephant raises and lowers from the ground.
I have modelled one Mumak with a howdah that slopes backwards. Make sure there is some minor variation in pitch and yaw between models and poses, but not too much so you have problems positioning crew figures.
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For the benefit of Doomslave - this thread should answer most queries.
The main thing is to ensure the howdah looks like it should be able to sit comfortably on a framework straddling the elephant's spine without looking unbalanced or too unwieldy. It should look plausible. Once I had the prototype shell of the howdah each platform was individually tailored to the elephant using hidden wedges and glued in place. The rolling gait of the elephant meant in reality it needed to be well secured and of course the elephant usually kneels to allow crew on and off resulting in an alarming pitch forwards and backwards as the elephant raises and lowers from the ground.
I have modelled one Mumak with a howdah that slopes backwards. Make sure there is some minor variation in pitch and yaw between models and poses, but not too much so you have problems positioning crew figures.
Thanks for the help. My son and I will begin work during this Christmas vacation.
Doomslave ;)
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Looking forward to comparing notes...
I have managed to locate an old LP carry case I converted many years ago to take trays of figures. I've worked out it can carry up to 6 of my Mumakil and various accessories (removable turrets, flags and howdah crews).
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Just a teaser pic of the 7 armoured Mumakil as they roll off the production line... Still some work to do before Mid April, but they are now substantially assembled and complete
(http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x200/sukhe_bator/Haradrim/IMAG0568.jpg~original)
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Wow those are excellent!! :o
Jim
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I really love those Mumakil. The armour looks great. Make me want to make a few. I think I have a few over sized Elephnats kicking around some where. That castle looks great too. Is it a scratch build.
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Just a teaser pic of the 7 armoured Mumakil as they roll off the production line... Still some work to do before Mid April, but they are now substantially assembled and complete
(http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x200/sukhe_bator/Haradrim/IMAG0568.jpg)
It looks very impressive! I love the variation in armour and colouring, top job!
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Awesome much better than the lame GW version! I really like them :-*
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It looks very impressive! I love the variation in armour and colouring, top job!
Yes indeed, that and the different poses turns them into a great irregular horde, whilst still being recognisably of the same origin. They could easily have turned out too samey and boring.
Superb! :-*
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I recently acquired another large elephant at a boot fair - I plan to create a modified howdah to take a ballista and crew for a mounted weapons platform for sieges. There is historical precedent - the Burmese had torsion catapults on elephants in the C12, while the Mughals had small calibre swivel guns mounted on howdahs in the early 1600s...
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Finally some work in progress pics of Mumakil #8, #9 and #10
All three have modified howdahs to take ballistae or the usual 4-5 archer crew complement.
(http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x200/sukhe_bator/Haradrim/IMAG0610.jpg~original)
This one based on leather scale panels
(http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x200/sukhe_bator/Haradrim/IMAG0609.jpg~original)
This one on quilted and studded bardings
#10 is based on Medieval Persian and Indian sources that state the armies had elephants devoted to command and control. #10 has 2 drums from a GW LotR Troll with Gripping beast and Crusader crew. Suitable flags to be added later...
(http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x200/sukhe_bator/Haradrim/IMAG0608.jpg~original)
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Great! :-*
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A long, long overdue full Order of battle of my revised Haradrim army making use of the recent unseasonably hot weather ;)
(http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x200/sukhe_bator/IMAG0915_zps2abad3fc.jpg~original)
(http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x200/sukhe_bator/IMAG0911_zpsa3b741a1.jpg~original)
(http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x200/sukhe_bator/IMAG0912_zps0f733920.jpg~original)
The main teeth (or rather tusks) of the army - 7 Mumakil, preceded by a swarm of Far Harad skirmishers
(http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x200/sukhe_bator/IMAG0914_zpsdf4773a6.jpg~original)
(http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x200/sukhe_bator/IMAG0916_zps8e8b1969.jpg~original)
(http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x200/sukhe_bator/IMAG0930_zps3f0d631b.jpg~original)
A view from the Left side along the battle line...
(http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x200/sukhe_bator/IMAG0939_zps9667c088.jpg~original)
The Left flank with light cavalry to the front, heavy cavalry behind and a w.i.p. unit of Cataphract camelry at the rear...
(http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x200/sukhe_bator/IMAG0919_zps4070e4b6.jpg~original)
(http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x200/sukhe_bator/IMAG0909_zps6788c89a.jpg~original)
Centre infantry regiments with Far Harad infantry in the foreground (http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x200/sukhe_bator/IMAG0921_zps49a2ed75.jpg~original)
A couple of the seasoned Harad infantry regiments...
(http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x200/sukhe_bator/IMAG0934_zpsc10b3dff.jpg~original)
(http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x200/sukhe_bator/IMAG0932_zpsba1f7d0e.jpg~original)
(http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x200/sukhe_bator/IMAG0927_zps75fb3a98.jpg~original)
(http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x200/sukhe_bator/IMAG0922_zps1550a174.jpg~original)
It has been several years in the making, but is finally taking shape :D
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Splendid, This is what fantasy is, merging historical miniatures together with conversion to create awesome fantasy armies at good prices!
Congrats and looking forward in seeing them rushing some riders of rohan! ;) Those excellent and most colorful mumaks are my favorites as are the far harad skirmishers!
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Wow impressive collection! :o
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brilliant, I missed this first time round, what a truly excellent looking army :D
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Wow, that's quite a sight...
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Cor blimey :o
That's an impressive body of work.
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:o :o
Stunning, mate.
Simply stunning.
:-* :-*
A proper Haradrim army, that is.
8)
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Please tell me you didn't paint those serpent shields yourself. Stunning.
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Please tell me you didn't paint those serpent shields yourself. Stunning.
Sorry joe5mc - all the shields and flags are hand done!
Thanks for the praise guys - there's still a lot more to be finished before I'm done though. I'm envious of those of you who can stick at one project to the bitter end. I'm a bit of a flibbertygibbet when it comes to modelling projects. ;D:-[
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I'm envious of those of you who can stick at one project to the bitter end. I'm a bit of a flibbertygibbet when it comes to modelling projects. ;D:-[
Welcome to the Way of the Butterfly!
:D
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Fantastic stuff :)
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Welcome to the Way of the Butterfly!
:D
'Ah so desne, Mason san'... - 'the Way of the Butterfly' - I like that - the Wargamer's martial art eh?
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Impressive. Loving the jumbos.
Now back to Westeros, quick! ;)
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What a labour of love in this thread - beautiful work.
And I'm also a member of the WotB.
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Impressive. Loving the jumbos.
Now back to Westeros, quick! ;)
Captain Blood,
I think I can mention without a spoiler alert that war elephants do feature in the ASOIAF books, albeit on the periphery of the main storylines... creating yet another opportunity for modelling pachyderms methinks?!
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lol
So they do... Looking forward to seeing those woolly fellows ;)
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So they do... Looking forward to seeing those woolly fellows ;)
Spoilery stuff:
Ah, well now, remember there are mammoths north of the wall, and non-woolly elephants to the east. ;)
Tempted to pre-emptively start a Connington force because of that, although the troops would be arranged and decked out however the Golden Company are, rather than regular westerosi cod-medieval...
But I digress.
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Magnificent work, and the snake emblems are quite beautiful.
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Really excellent work. I went back and looked at your in-progress shots and the amount of work you put into them really shows in the final result.
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Got here late. Those are wonderful. I spent many hours pouring over those Ian Miller illustrations in the Tolkien Bestiary. His aesthetic is not the easiest to bring to life in miniature but you've really done so. A really impressive achievement.
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Got here late. Those are wonderful. I spent many hours pouring over those Ian Miller illustrations in the Tolkien Bestiary. His aesthetic is not the easiest to bring to life in miniature but you've really done so. A really impressive achievement.
Thanks Spooktalker, those illustrations were pretty influential
Captain Blood - Since I already have a mammoth, I have designs on New Ghiscari and Golden Company elephants, but will be giving them a more european/classical look. I kinda like the idea of Gothic 'horse' armour on a nellie though!
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Soo good ;D
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I kinda like the idea of Gothic 'horse' armour on a nellie though!
Genius! Do it :)
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Seems like the only way forward doesn't it Cpt B?!!! >:D :D
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Genius! Do it :)
Second that!!!
I do love the work you put into your projects 8)
cheers
James
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Seems like an age since I completed these. Now 11 Mumakil wait in the wings, with another 4 Heffalumps awaiting conversion into beasts of burden to pull my siege machines...
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Seems like an age since I completed these. Now 11 Mumakil wait in the wings, with another 4 Heffalumps awaiting conversion into beasts of burden to pull my siege machines...
More pictures then please :D
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A recent photo opportunity capitalising on the good weather. The war herd of 10 Mumakil
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"PaaaaRRRRP!"
That's quite a herd you got there, Sukhe.
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"PaaaaRRRRP!"
You don't want to be too close downwind of them that's for sure! lol
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These look amazing! I love the variation between them!
(And you've done these *as well as* the Golden Company ones in your Westeros project? Your productivity is incredible!)
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Wow! Great work!
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These look amazing! I love the variation between them!
(And you've done these *as well as* the Golden Company ones in your Westeros project? Your productivity is incredible!)
This exactly
:o :o :o
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Your productivity is incredible!)
His storage space is incredible! ;)
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I love Peter Jackson's take on the Mumaks, but it would be very dull if we all saw things the same way and I love seeing individual takes on LOTR. These are great, wondeful conversions, very inspiring!