Lead Adventure Forum
Other Stuff => General Wargames and Hobby Discussion => Topic started by: Silent Invader on August 31, 2016, 12:59:56 PM
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This is a carryover from a WANTED thread, that might be of use to a wider audience. :)
For my Second Afghan War project# I struggled to find 19thC images of Afghan goats but I did discover a lithograph, by Lt. James Rattray (1818-1854), of Ghilzai Nomads in Afghanistan, painted in 1848. This extract shows a singular goat, possibly a buck of a breed that is seemingly quite small relative to the adjacent man.
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http://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=89654.0
(http://leadadventureforum.com/gallery/25/2031_31_08_16_1_49_00_3.jpeg)
As the breed in the lithograph isn't clear to me I have decided to model mine on Anglo-Nubian herding stock, which have distinctive long, floppy ears and are normally kept hornless (being disbudded soon after birth).
(http://leadadventureforum.com/gallery/25/2031_31_08_16_1_49_59_2.jpeg)
The minimum height to the withers (the top of the 'shoulders') of a buck is 89cm and of a doe is 76cm.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anglo-Nubian_goat
As an all plastic project, I wanted plastic goats and LAFer Sinewgrab very helpfully replied in my WANTED thread with a link to Meyer-Imports of the USA.
I bought the 3 pack bundle (18 goats) @$12.95 plus shipping to the UK (though I was able to apply a 'new customer' 10% discount):
https://www.meyer-imports.com/product_info.php/goats-sheep-set-102-2062-p-3023
The goats are all in the same pose and all female (with udders). They are a soft-to-hard plastic that I think will take paint well. As it happens, they are supplied painted but I'll change the scheme for my own purposes. I shall also modify the ears to give the distinctive Anglo-Nubian appearance.
The goats are sold as being 3/4" but elsewhere in the store are described as O scale, which seems to vary from 1:48 to 1:43.5
The goats are approximately 15.5mm to the withers, which at my project's notional scale of 1/56 compared to target minimums of 15.9mm (buck) and 13.6mm (doe). They are therefore larger (but not necessarily over large) specimens.
However, this image of grazing Anglo-Nubians suggests that the model's legs are a tad too long. Taking off 1.5mm at the hoof (which could be lost in the basing medium) brings the model height down to 14mm, which if 1/56 equates to 78.4cm at 1/1.
(http://leadadventureforum.com/gallery/25/2031_31_08_16_1_49_59_1.jpeg)
So, the Meyer-Imports goats do provide a good starting point, but what do they look like next to the minis? In the following image, L to R as viewed, are a goat with shortened legs and with jutting ears removed, one of my (unfinished!) Afghan tribesmen (converted from a Perry plastic Zouave), and a goat as supplied:
(http://leadadventureforum.com/gallery/25/2031_31_08_16_1_49_59_0.jpeg)
I also have plastic goats by Pegasus* and Hornby* on the way and will compare them to the Meyer product idc.
*both of which seem to be going out of stock or out of manufacture
EDIT: corrected image formatting
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Your dedication to this project is outstanding. :)
I think you have gone above and beyond to research and to create the perfect goat ;) lol
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Lol
Bullocks next. ;)
I need a couple for my supply carts.
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Steve, you really are a nut job lol
But we love you for it lol
cheers
James
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The little black goat could be a vatani breed though good luck finding an image. They apparently originated in Afghanistan and are still one of the main breeds today.
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o_o o_o o_o
You, sir, are stark raving bonkers!
lol lol lol
The only question is: Can you knit a plastic 1:56 balaclava for your Afghans from plastic goat 'hair'?
You will have some left over, after all, from shaving them goat legs down.....
:D
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James and Paul: ;)
Steve: Thanks! That's very interesting. Googling didn't reveal anything more about the Vitani except Wikipedia, which described it as "Vatani, Afghan native black". Thinking about it, the Hotnby goat might pass as a Vitani:
(http://leadadventureforum.com/gallery/25/2031_31_08_16_7_04_58.jpeg)
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The goats in the Pegasus farm animals set are very nice, I must say.
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Steve: This is just what you need:
http://www.strange-aeons.ca/umw-shop/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=74
If anyone can help, they can.
:D ;)
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The goats in the Pegasus farm animals set are very nice, I must say.
I've got a couple on the way but the box is very hard to get hold of :'(
And Paul: you weirdo ! lol
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Here are a few of the animals from the Pegasus set. They are 1:48, and may be a bit big if you are concerned about scale. I've also got the Eureka (metal) goats from the modern civilians line, which are much smaller. I don't have a comparison shot right now but will see if I can set one up tonight. The box gives you two adult goats and one kid, in addition to mules, sheep, poultry and a small herd of cattle.
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-qf0ESZd03-w/VtO9zFAcwKI/AAAAAAAAAo8/nXiY8zcsX34/s1600/IMG_3906.JPG)
Edit: the mules, goats and the sheep in the front are from Pegasus. The sheep at the rear are from Warlord Games, the ones in the back are old MegaMinis. I forget where the dog is from.
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Gripping Beast:
(http://www.grippingbeast.co.uk/admin/thumbnail.php?width=240&height=240&src=/userfiles/images/sys/products/LIV11_Middle_Eastern_Goats_4_74595.gif)
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Thanks chaps :D
This'll seem perhaps a tad odd but I've set myself the objective of using plastics - no metals at all, not even conversion parts - for the project. I know I'm making life difficult for myself in not using any of the very good and readily available metal goats that are out there but it's an enjoyable challenge. :)
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Eureka produce flocks of 28mm goats, primarily for their Afghan range. Nice models too.
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Good little review - can you remember to give us a side-by-side with the Pegasus goats when they come in?
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Eureka produce flocks of 28mm goats, primarily for their Afghan range. Nice models too.
Thanks for the info.
This one? Unfortunately no image but pricing is very good.
http://eurekamin.com.au/product_info.php?products_id=4802 (http://eurekamin.com.au/product_info.php?products_id=4802)
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Good little review - can you remember to give us a side-by-side with the Pegasus goats when they come in?
Here you go.
The plastic goat 'beauty parade':
(http://leadadventureforum.com/gallery/25/2031_03_09_16_11_52_49.jpeg)
HORNBY 1/72
PEGASUS 1/48
MEYER (modified, awaiting new ears)
MEYER 1/43?
All are female except the little Hornby. I expect to have 7 Pegasus and 18 Meyer in one or two flocks. I also expect to modify all of the Meyer into shorter Anglo-Nubians, with shaved back heads and green stuff floppy ears. The Meyer's thicker legs will be obscured by base vegetation.
If I could get a big flock of the Pegasus, I'd be very happy with that, but at only 2 goats per box it's potentially a very expensive way of doing it.
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I'm surprised at the obsession with plastic instead of metal goats.
After all, I'd heard that sheep need to be driven, but goats must be lead.
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I'm surprised at the obsession with plastic instead of metal goats.
After all, I'd heard that sheep need to be driven, but goats must be lead.
You're just kidding, right?
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These on Ebay? 122083462509 or 272304717946
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These on Ebay? 122083462509 or 272304717946
These ones actually look like the Meyer product (though that definitely isn't 1/64):
http://m.ebay.co.uk/itm/1-64-ERTL-FARM-TOY-QTY-OF-25-ASSORTED-COLORED-GOATS-FOR-YOUR-DISPLAY-NEW-IN-BAG-/122083462509?hash=item1c6cbdcd6d%3Ag%3AaXoAAOSwGIRXX2C8&_trkparms=pageci%253A839e1f0e-71c6-11e6-afa2-74dbd1804de9%257Cparentrq%253Aefbac7c41560a2a405c30ba7ffffb6fb%257Ciid%253A1 (http://m.ebay.co.uk/itm/1-64-ERTL-FARM-TOY-QTY-OF-25-ASSORTED-COLORED-GOATS-FOR-YOUR-DISPLAY-NEW-IN-BAG-/122083462509?hash=item1c6cbdcd6d%3Ag%3AaXoAAOSwGIRXX2C8&_trkparms=pageci%253A839e1f0e-71c6-11e6-afa2-74dbd1804de9%257Cparentrq%253Aefbac7c41560a2a405c30ba7ffffb6fb%257Ciid%253A1)
Looking at the tape measure, they could be the same size as the Meyers.
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I'm surprised at the obsession with plastic instead of metal goats.
After all, I'd heard that sheep need to be driven, but goats must be lead.
I see what you did there, very good. :D
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You're just kidding, right?
At risk of bleating about it, I tried too ;)
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A better image of 19th c Afghan with goat!
From the Illustrated London News of (I think, it is a little blurred) 18th April 1885, hillmen travelling through the Bolan Pass:
(http://leadadventureforum.com/gallery/25/2031_08_09_16_11_23_15.jpeg)
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I'm surprised at the obsession with plastic instead of metal goats.
After all, I'd heard that sheep need to be driven, but goats must be lead.
Sir, I salute and applaud your skill at puns! lol
On a general note, I love how on LAF we can have these super serious discussion on the best plastic goats for a particular region, and make pun all the way.
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Just imagine if it were Napoleonic goats being discussed .... lol
PS: I'm waiting for the best pun on the rearward facing donkey jockey ;)
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Just imagine if it were Napoleonic goats being discussed .... lol
PS: I'm waiting for the best pun on the rearward facing donkey jockey ;)
I'm more interested in the dog, and wondered, who puts a bitch on their ass?
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Steve: You really do need to make a figure humping his goat around like the fella in that picture.
;D ;)
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Steve: You really do need to make a figure humping his goat around like the fella in that picture.
;D ;)
Challenge accepted :D
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You're just kidding, right?
No need to be so gruff.
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Challenge accepted :D
So you're really going to sculpt a man humping his goat? lol
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Challenge accepted :D
So you're really going to sculpt a man humping his goat? lol
How could he resist?
lol lol
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No need to be so gruff.
lol
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Ertl did farm animals in both 1/64 & 1/48. It is possible the seller got them mixed up. I have some pigs in both scales.
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Ertl did farm animals in both 1/64 & 1/48. It is possible the seller got them mixed up. I have some pigs in both scales.
Thanks Herby, that's good to know.