Lead Adventure Forum
Miniatures Adventure => SuperHero Adventures => Topic started by: fourcolorfigs on October 23, 2016, 09:52:08 PM
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I'm now working on a new, rules-lite superhero skirmish game I am calling Super Mission Force.
This will be a completely separate game from SuperSystem, based off the fun and success I have had working on Void Pirates.
As I've aged my gaming tastes and design ethos have changed. I want faster rules with less prep. That's the aim with SMF.
You'll be able to build your character in minutes using archetype sheets and by making a few simple selections. I hope to integrate a comic book style campaign system and some cool story-driven adventure mechanics in as well.
If my things go well, I might have a play-test doc ready by week's end. We shall see.
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As I've aged my gaming tastes and design ethos have changed. I want faster rules with less prep. That's the aim with SMF.
It's almost like you are reading my mind :). That's exactly how I feel these days. If I want to play with Cap, I'd really like to be able to throw him together quickly and get it on the table. I know some folks live for army lists and love to debate the minutia, but I'd rather get it together quick and play.
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It's almost like you are reading my mind :). That's exactly how I feel these days. If I want to play with Cap, I'd really like to be able to throw him together quickly and get it on the table. I know some folks live for army lists and love to debate the minutia, but I'd rather get it together quick and play.
My goal is 3 min. chargen. It should take more time to write out your character's name and stats on the sheet than to build him.
Got a lot of work done today so far. Got a cover artist lined up. Joe D. is on board for layout. So things are moving along.
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Perfect! Been looking for something to run with Amiibos and Disney Infinity figures at public displays. Looking forward to seeing it.
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Sounds good to me, easier is (at least for me) better.
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Sounds great! That sentiment drove us to update 7TV too.
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Make no mistake, this will be a completely separate, standalone game from SS4.
I will need a few play-testers, so let me know if anyone's in!
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You have my blade! ;D
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How do folks feel about card based initiative? Similar to Savage Worlds. I have used this in past games, and I am thinking of including both standard initiative and card based options. Thoughts?
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How do folks feel about card based initiative? Similar to Savage Worlds. I have used this in past games, and I am thinking of including both standard initiative and card based options. Thoughts?
Not for me.
The reason is simple, I do not like different mechanics in one game.
Even shifting dice like D4, D6 etc is not my thing.
In addition card based systems have th tendency to clutter the table (that should be reserved for our beautifully painted minis) with gaming props and cards.
A game of X-Wing becomes very fast a pile of markers and cards...
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I like the IgoUgo based on an initiative roll that you already have going on. I do like the way the Lardies do activation, but that's the only card based activation that I've enjoyed.
I think aegis summed up why, even though I've never come to the reason until reading his.
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For me in a game it is important, that no player is out of action for a long time. So I think Igougo is ok, but Uni after unit. Not these GW-Thing with one side, than the other. We played the Otherworld skirmish and change it. Igougo and Unit auf er Unit, this is great...
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Noted! As it stands now it is "I go - You go" and will remain that away. I can always include the card initiative option in a sidebar. Then everyone wins! :D
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The bulk of the rules are now done. Three of the six scenarios are done (one of them is a repeat from SS4). Things are really moving for me!
I am going to procure some new Heroclix today for play-testing purposes. lol
I'll be ready to release a play-test doc soon to interested parties.
Fergal and Zeebeast are already in the queue.
Let me know...
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Sweet.
My miniatures are already buzzing, crawling and flying all over the place.
The funny thing is I just had a conversation with my main opponent (brother in law), less than an hour ago, about the fact that we need to play more games in the future and here comes a new ruleset right up our alley.
Exited much :D
Greetings,
Zeebeest
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Glad to hear it, Scott. I'm definitely looking forward to Super Mission Force. I'm happy to say I picked up Void Pirates as soon as I saw your announcement.
Is there any possibility in the future of Goalsystem dice? I realize there are other options out there, but they're not perfect (and, yes, I am lazy).
I know there was the possibility of custom dice with the SuperSystem kickstarter :'( that didn't come to pass.
What does Chessex need for a minimum order? How many of us would need to get together to have some Goalsystem dice made?
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Glad to hear it, Scott. I'm definitely looking forward to Super Mission Force. I'm happy to say I picked up Void Pirates as soon as I saw your announcement.
Is there any possibility in the future of Goalsystem dice? I realize there are other options out there, but they're not perfect (and, yes, I am lazy).
I know there was the possibility of custom dice with the SuperSystem kickstarter :'( that didn't come to pass.
What does Chessex need for a minimum order? How many of us would need to get together to have some Goalsystem dice made?
Thanks, Randall! Custom dice would be great. The samples I got made from Chessex were great.
Here's the quote I got from Chessex back in 2014:
At any quantity of 500 or greater, the pricing for this process would
be $.42 per engraved face. This would make dice with three engraved
and three blank faces $1.26 per die. I might be able to begin the
price down to $1.00 per die depending on how the samples behave once I
have your design.
At this point, getting 500 made would be steep. Not sure if I am up to another Crowdfunding adventure at this point, but if folks wanted to go in with me to fund this, I'd be up for it.
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Is there any possibility in the future of Goalsystem dice? I realize there are other options out there, but they're not perfect (and, yes, I am lazy).
I know there was the possibility of custom dice with the SuperSystem kickstarter :'( that didn't come to pass.
What does Chessex need for a minimum order? How many of us would need to get together to have some Goalsystem dice made?
I would be very interested in the dice and would easily take 30 or something.
What would it take to get some is a good question.
Greetings,
Zeebeest.
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I'd take 20-30 dice as well, preferably in different coloured lots of 10.
Also up for playtesting Scott! :D
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Ok, I'd be up for 30 dice as well.
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Long time lurker, first time poster. I'm a big fan of the SuperSystem games, but a stripped down version similar to Void Pirates would be pretty awesome! I would be up for playtesting, please.
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I would be interested in 20 dice too! Really prefer these types of dice to simple d6 8)
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I would buy some dice and would pick up the new rules as well.
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Folks, I am getting close to releasing a play-test document. Just needed today to polish up a few things. Very glad for all of your collective enthusiasm. :)
I will likely make it a no-frills PDF and throw it up on my Box.com account, then post the link here.
The cover is in progress and Alex and Carrie are really doing a great job on it. Joe D. has some great ideas for an elegant, accessible layout, so we're rolling on this one. A couple of weeks of kicking the tires in play-test, and I think we'll be close.
Just remember--this is not SuperSystem. We've made concessions to detail for swift character creation and faster play. I am hoping it will hit the sweet spot for folks who liked the way Void Pirates plays and want to play supers in the same way.
We shall see!
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I'm going to have to repurchase some supers figs, aren't I? Knew I shouldn't have sold all 500+ of them a few years back when the local SS group fell apart.
Sigh. Where's that Old Glory Army card? At least the new crop will be better painted. :)
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Long time lurker, first time poster. I'm a big fan of the SuperSystem games, but a stripped down version similar to Void Pirates would be pretty awesome! I would be up for playtesting, please.
Thanks for stepping from the shadows to throw your hat in! Much appreciated!
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I'm very curious to see how this will work out. I love SS for the depth of character creation possible but also found that it's easy to build fairly unbalanced teams in it, since the range of powers and abilities is so broad. Having a bit of a framework to work within with those stats might not be a bad idea to get everything a tad more in line with each other.
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I love SS for the depth of character creation possible but also found that it's easy to build fairly unbalanced teams in it, since the range of powers and abilities is so broad. Having a bit of a framework to work within with those stats might not be a bad idea to get everything a tad more in line with each other.
I think that is a HUGE problem with supers games is that a comic writer writes a story where Black Widow and Thor both equally contribute to a combat, but a skirmish system just can't cope with that with any kind of balance. Role playing, maybe, but skirmish, nope.
SuperSystem gives you the framework to make whatever you want, but the onus of balance is on the players/scenario makers.
I'm super stoked to get the new game on the table with my girls, looks like I'll be able to play next weekend. It fits my needs, but doesn't allow for the 'anything goes' that SuperSystem offered.
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OK, folks! Here goes:
https://app.box.com/s/4sx2qknhb2nd4ptn8o4wrvmqd3ldgoa6
Keep in mind this is a play-test doc. I've run a few small games only so far. Also, there's no layout done on this yet, so the presentation and arrangement can and likely will change.
Obviously it helps most if you actually play games, but pointing out errors, inconsistencies, and other niggles will be of great service too.
Above all, thanks for your enthusiasm! It drives me forward.
I spent many long hours on the fireground so that I could have the free hours to work on projects like this.
It's nice.
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I think that is a HUGE problem with supers games is that a comic writer writes a story where Black Widow and Thor both equally contribute to a combat, but a skirmish system just can't cope with that with any kind of balance. Role playing, maybe, but skirmish, nope.
The Mutants and Masterminds RPG did that balance a little too well, which is another problem. Every character ended up with +10 to their attacks, which made for dull combats.
Got the PDF, will give it a go at PAX Melbourne on the weekend if I can convince the boss.
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Folks, just a word of caution, I would not print this out at this early stage as I am going to be making changes, additions, and subtractions all the time!
But it's your printing budget! :D
Working on a batch of corrections right now!
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Yea I learned that the hard way with the supersystem 4th playtest. lol
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And as if on cue, updated version now available! Same link!
https://app.box.com/s/4sx2qknhb2nd4ptn8o4wrvmqd3ldgoa6
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The link asks for account log in, which it did not do on the first version? o_o
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Fixed link:
https://app.box.com/s/4sx2qknhb2nd4ptn8o4wrvmqd3ldgoa6
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Many thanks for this FCF! I've given it a go with a certain fantastic quartet and enjoyed it greatly, and I have a bit of feedback. The first probably falls into the world of house rules to be honest but I thought I'd mention it in case you thought it a good idea. I wanted my not visible female to be able to protect her whole team with a force field. Not possible under the rules but I didn't think pushing a force field that had already been bought twice to cover an area rather than just two figures fitted quite well if it had a recharge roll.
Which brings me to the second and main problem. I don't quite get chance rolls in this and void pirates. A chance roll is stated as 2D, but many rolls require more than 2 goals to work. Is this a case of you have to get at least one 6 and a 4+ or is there a way to roll more dice that I'm missing?
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Many thanks for this FCF! I've given it a go with a certain fantastic quartet and enjoyed it greatly, and I have a bit of feedback. The first probably falls into the world of house rules to be honest but I thought I'd mention it in case you thought it a good idea. I wanted my not visible female to be able to protect her whole team with a force field. Not possible under the rules but I didn't think pushing a force field that had already been bought twice to cover an area rather than just two figures fitted quite well if it had a recharge roll.
Which brings me to the second and main problem. I don't quite get chance rolls in this and void pirates. A chance roll is stated as 2D, but many rolls require more than 2 goals to work. Is this a case of you have to get at least one 6 and a 4+ or is there a way to roll more dice that I'm missing?
Chance rolls, and recharge rolls, are designed to model rare or plot-driven resources. In the case of the supers genre, these would be powers that can often act as fun burglars.
When you roll 2D you can score the following:
0 goals
1 goal
2 goals
3 goals
4 goals
The average on 2D = 1.32 goals.
Any power or sub-ability of a power that has a Recharge (chance) roll greater than 1+ is intentionally designed to be hard to use more than once per game.
The key is sorting out whether a power or sub-ability that I think could burgle fun or be disruptive is worth a 1+, 2+, or the dreaded 3+. That's where you guys come in! ;)
This whole system exists because I want a system that players (including me) can build a team of heroes in around five minutes. That's once you're familiar with the powers, of course.
I hope this helps elucidate my thinking. :)
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OK fair enough, recharge is just hard.
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Just curious if we are trying to build well known character archetypes and run into problems is that the kind of feedback you are also looking for or would that be for a later date?
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Just curious if we are trying to build well known character archetypes and run into problems is that the kind of feedback you are also looking for or would that be for a later date?
Anything goes. I will say that SMF will not allow you the same level of customization as SuperSystem. Trade-offs. Fast chargen and faster play mean giving up that level of detail.
But I do want to allow folks to stat up at least close versions of well-loved characters. Hence the Magic Hammer and Shield powers.
Thanks!
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Some clarified Chance Roll text:
The Chance Roll
Any time a player needs to figure out the results of an unsure situation that occupies a “gray” area in the rules, he or she can use a Chance Roll. Simply roll 2D, and note the number of goals scored. If it becomes a matter of degree, the more goals generated, the better. If no goals are rolled, things go against the roller.
Certain power abilities, scenario conditions, or other circumstances within the rules will call for Chance Rolls, and many of those rolls may require more than a single goal for the result to go in favor of the roller. When it comes to powers we often refer to these rolls as “recharge rolls”.
When you roll 2D, you can potentially score the following number of goals: 0 (25% chance), 1 (33.33% chance), 2 (27.78% chance), 3 (11.11% chance), or 4 (2.78% chance). We use Recharge chance rolls as a sort of resource management mechanic. So you’re guaranteed the use of particularly potent power once per game, and you might need to roll a 2+ or even a 3+ to use it again during the same game.
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Updated file based on some feedback here and elsewhere:
https://app.box.com/s/4sx2qknhb2nd4ptn8o4wrvmqd3ldgoa6
Shorthand, here's some changes:
-- Added more thorough explanatory text on Chance/Recharge rules
-- Tweaked Force-Field
-- Lowered some Recharge rolls on a few powers
-- Added the Mimic power
-- Fixed a number of text errors and clarified some text
Thanks for any feedback!
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And we have a cover!
(http://i1168.photobucket.com/albums/r497/srpyle_1970/FourColor%20Supers_zpsi9bkeebs.jpg) (http://s1168.photobucket.com/user/srpyle_1970/media/FourColor%20Supers_zpsi9bkeebs.jpg.html)
Alex Cook and Carrie Posing are awesome! Can't wait to see their back cover piece!
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Some clarified Chance Roll text
Certain power abilities, scenario conditions, or other circumstances within the rules will call for Chance Rolls, and many of those rolls may require more than a single goal for the result to go in favor of the roller. When it comes to powers we often refer to these rolls as “recharge roll
If I roll for recharge this round and fail, can I roll again next round?
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If I roll for recharge this round and fail, can I roll again next round?
Yes!
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Looks interesting, shall have a look this upcoming weekend!
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Anything goes. I will say that SMF will not allow you the same level of customization as SuperSystem. Trade-offs. Fast chargen and faster play mean giving up that level of detail.
But I do want to allow folks to stat up at least close versions of well-loved characters. Hence the Magic Hammer and Shield powers.
Fair enough. I'm trying to stat up a fairly generic archer type character and running into a bit of an issue with the minor abilities since none of them really fit the archetype. Taking the fast or smart boost could fix it, especially if I took both but maybe it would be more appropriate if the archer blaster could take another 2 arrows as a minor power?
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Fair enough. I'm trying to stat up a fairly generic archer type character and running into a bit of an issue with the minor abilities since none of them really fit the archetype. Taking the fast or smart boost could fix it, especially if I took both but maybe it would be more appropriate if the archer blaster could take another 2 arrows as a minor power?
Gotcha. I did just add Iron Will and Fortune to the Archetype's options.
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Gotcha. I did just add Iron Will and Fortune to the Archetype's options.
That also helps. I notice that a lot of powers say "once per game" and have a recharge rating. While I get what you are going for I don't think it actually says anywhere that recharging them does give you another use. This might just be me having some preconceptions from other games but calling something once per game when there is a mechanism to use it more often feels weird.
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That also helps. I notice that a lot of powers say "once per game" and have a recharge rating. While I get what you are going for I don't think it actually says anywhere that recharging them does give you another use. This might just be me having some preconceptions from other games but calling something once per game when there is a mechanism to use it more often feels weird.
Agreed. I think I am going to change that right now. Thanks!
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Did a play-test today. Overall I am very pleased with everything. I always learn a lot when I play things out on the tabletop. We did a 2 on 2 battle--Beast & Spider-Woman vs. Electro & Rattler.
(http://i1168.photobucket.com/albums/r497/srpyle_1970/IMG_0005_zpss7evfpvj.jpg) (http://s1168.photobucket.com/user/srpyle_1970/media/IMG_0005_zpss7evfpvj.jpg.html)
(http://i1168.photobucket.com/albums/r497/srpyle_1970/IMG_0006_zpsv0wiomnf.jpg) (http://s1168.photobucket.com/user/srpyle_1970/media/IMG_0006_zpsv0wiomnf.jpg.html)
(http://i1168.photobucket.com/albums/r497/srpyle_1970/IMG_0007_zps8eoewbmg.jpg) (http://s1168.photobucket.com/user/srpyle_1970/media/IMG_0007_zps8eoewbmg.jpg.html)
(http://i1168.photobucket.com/albums/r497/srpyle_1970/IMG_0008_zps22wtnkre.jpg) (http://s1168.photobucket.com/user/srpyle_1970/media/IMG_0008_zps22wtnkre.jpg.html)
Some random notes:
-- We played Seek and Find.
-- None of the characters scored and goals on subplots so we had no Subplot dice. Playing this out got me thinking the Subplot TN3 was too high, so I am lowering it to TN2 to get more subplots flowing into the game.
-- I also ended up lowering the TN for finding the cosmic pieces from TN4 to TN3. I like it better there.
-- The way Scrapper works now is great, but I increased the Recharge on Counterattack from 1+ to 2+ because it is a darn potent.
-- The advanced Maneuvers proved easy to use and filled with character.
-- The game played great! It ended up a battle between Beast and Rattler, and Beast won out!
That's all for now! Off to see Dr. Strange soon!
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Played a couple games already (quick and tons of fun!) and had some thoughts:
Rules Question: Can models not in base contact with an enemy use ranged attacks against an enemy in base contact with an ally?
Example: Flash and Deathstroke are in base contact with each other. Green Arrow is 10" away and wants to make a ranged attack (Power Blast) against Deathstroke.
Is this possible? I didn't see anything in the rules to prevent it but I was wondering if this was the intent.
Design Question: I was also wondering about Minor Powers availability to certain archetypes. Are these the only choices available, or are they just suggestions? I ask because The Brick archetype doesn't have Flight, so no Superman. No (minor) SuperStrength on the Mentalist, so no Martian Manhunter. If I wanted to build a mindless robot Blaster, I can't build it right off as a Construct.
I know I can houserule it, and I understand the Powerhouse archetype can offset this, but it may be too powerful for everyday use.
If the listed minor power options are supposed to be the only ones available, would it be too unbalancing to let all minor powers be available to each archetype? That way, the major powers are still locked in to certain move rates/damage boxes, but still allows a large degree of customization.
I understand this may go against the intended spirit of near instant character generation, but I think this makes it easier to recreate a specific idea. Thoughts?
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I can't answer on the design philosophy, but I would say that both Supes (the big blue cheese) and Martian are prime suspects for the Powerhouse. While the rules warn against overpowered nature I'm not so sure they actually will be in the end. I think action economy and lack of fine-tuned min-maxing will prevent them from steamrolling everything. I could be wrong though. I'm curious to see what sort of "broken" combos people can come up with!
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On smartphone so bear with me.
Can you fire ranged into a Melee? Yes! I will add a section on this tomorrow.
On taking any minor powers with archetypes? Hmmm. Need to think about this a bit. I am inclined to make current selections guidelines, and allow substitutes. But beware min maxing fun burglars 😄
Will address this more later.
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On taking any minor powers with archetypes? Hmmm. Need to think about this a bit. I am inclined to make current selections guidelines, and allow substitutes. But beware min maxing fun burglars 😄
I'm hoping for my first play test tomorrow, but my observation from reading through.
I like the limited 'fast creation' nature of the rules. It suits the goals of the rules perfectly. BUT the first thing you do when you finish that section is try to create you favorite supers and come to the conclusion that you can't make the simplified creation system recreate them perfectly.
I really like how it works and it'd be a shame to nuke it.
Perhaps a quick section recognizing that it's not a perfect for creating every super from your favorite comics. I think balance between supers from the comics is the reason there aren't more super hero skirmish games.
Finding a balancing method for this will lead to a much more complicated creation/game play. That being said:
Perhaps the opponents could get
-X number of subplots per minor power switch
-X number of free recharges per minor power switch
something like that? Though I like it how it is :) Perhaps when I trying to create my supers for my first play test I'll feel differently afterwards?
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Ok, uploaded latest version with some corrections and issues addressed.
-- There's now a section on Ranged Combat Into Melee
-- I included a brief discussion on swapping minor power in and out of Archetype. I'll paste it here because it's good discussion fodder:
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Mixing and Matching?
Creative players like to tinker; it’s what we do! If an archetype does not contain the right mix of major and minor powers for you to get the character you want, discuss it with your game group. As a group you could decide to essentially make all minor powers available to every archetype.
We feel like the mix of major and minor powers in each archetype achieves a play balance and elegance a points system cannot match. If your group decides to open things up a bit and freely select minor powers from the general list that’s fine. Just be mindful of any fun burgling combos you might create.
As a compromise your group could allow each player a one-time exception to capture a specific character’s power set just right. In these cases, the player gets to swap out one minor power for another at the cost of giving his opponents an extra Subplot die each game he plays with the character in question. It’s a nod to the other players that you respect them for letting you make the exception.
Here’s one final note on this. SMF lets you tell fun and exciting comic book stories on the tabletop. More power to you if you manage to find a killer app combo by going to the mix and match method, but always remember SMF focuses on fun, not victory.
=============
-- I added a note to Amphibious that lets you swap it into any Archetype.
That's all I can think of for now!
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Just played a test game with Henchmen. Hand ninja. Liked the way they worked a lot, but the base number needs to higher. So I am tweaking them to start at 10, and Legion will add 5 more if you take it.
Also going to add this minor power:
Veterans
You comprise a small, crack group of well trained fighters. Your base dice pool rises from 2D to 3D, but your numbers drop from 10 to 5.
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Hey guys,
I haven't had a lot of time do do some tinkering or test anything out, but I've seen some very good comments so far and I find myself thinking about the same things.
My main concern is that it's starting to look like SS4 a little and that isn't the main goal of these rules. Just a small thing I try to keep in mind. I'm sure that these new additions open the game up in a good and most likely, balanced way.
Either way, everyone is doing great stuff and I haven't done anything noteworthy so far. I hope to contribute more next week when I have more time. Keep up the good stuff, thanks guys.
Greetings,
Zeebeest.
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This is sage advice. I am hoping to not be adding much more now. Just refine what we have.
Is there something specific concerning you? Having played a handful of games now, I can tell you I love it and remain super excited! 👍😄
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I really want to play a few games before I lay down some hard feedback. Sadly I have no time this week so I'll have to wait till next week :'(
I am still really excited about this. As I said before, if this turns out half as good as SS we are in for a real treat :)
Greetings,
Zeebeest.
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Just played a test game with Henchmen. Hand ninja. Liked the way they worked a lot, but the base number needs to higher. So I am tweaking them to start at 10, and Legion will add 5 more if you take it.
Also going to add this minor power:
Veterans
You comprise a small, crack group of well trained fighters. Your base dice pool rises from 2D to 3D, but your numbers drop from 10 to 5.
I like the larger sized Henchmen groups, that put a smile on my face. More models is always better, gives it a much more comic feel. I used to love turning over a page and seeing a two page spread of the heroes battling a hoard of henchmen, glad it works out!
I also like the veteran option.
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I think having large groups is interesting, though I do also feel the veteran option is needed. You are going from, "fast simple games with a low number of miniatures" to "unless you want henchmen, then you need at least 10 of them."
TBH right now the archetype manoeuvres feel a bit tacked on.
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I think having large groups is interesting, though I do also feel the veteran option is needed. You are going from, "fast simple games with a low number of miniatures" to "unless you want henchmen, then you need at least 10 of them."
TBH right now the archetype manoeuvres feel a bit tacked on.
The good thing is the Henchmen reside in their own chapter and folks can easily choose to use them or not. And Veterans lets folks use a 5-man group without penalty.
Let me know more about Maneuvers. If there's something I can do to make them more flavorful or thematic, I'll make some adjustments. I agree some are less flavorful than others. Power Attack is kind of general. But I really like how Acrobatic Attack lets you model Puck from Alpha Flight's cart-wheeling attack.
Thanks for the feedback! It helps!
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I will admit that in part it's a layout problem. Having the manoeuvres in a completely different part of the book makes them feel like an afterthought. And while they have a different name they are in effect just another set of powers that come with the archetype. I understand that they are more optional rules but like I say, it makes them feel "tacked on"
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I will admit that in part it's a layout problem. Having the manoeuvres in a completely different part of the book makes them feel like an afterthought. And while they have a different name they are in effect just another set of powers that come with the archetype. I understand that they are more optional rules but like I say, it makes them feel "tacked on"
Gotcha. For now I'll leave them as is, but YPU brings up a good point. Would the Archetype Maneuvers be better placed with each archetype write-up? Thoughts?
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I know its a whole different ball game, but have you considered doing the powers and manoeuvres on cards for quick reference? It would help keep track of what you have available at any moment and what needs to be recharged.
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I know its a whole different ball game, but have you considered doing the powers and manoeuvres on cards for quick reference? It would help keep track of what you have available at any moment and what needs to be recharged.
I think we'll definitely need to design a clever character sheet that allows for tracking of stuff that needs recharged.
I had not considered cards. They might be cool, but that's one other thing to clutter the tabletop. Not sure. I am willing to listen to feedback on this too.
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This is a crude sheet I am using for play-tests right now:
Super Mission Force!
Name___________________
Archetype________________
Move______
Body [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ]
Psyche [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ]
Melee Attack (Body) 4D + _____ = _____ Melee Defense (Body) 4D + _____ = _____
Ranged Attack (Body) 4D + _____ = _____ Ranged Defense (Body) 4D + _____ = _____
Psyche Attack 4D + _____ = _____ Psyche Defense 4D + _____ = _____
Major Powers
_____________________________________ Recharge ____ + [ ]
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Minor Powers
_____________________________________ Recharge ____ + [ ]
_____________________________________ Recharge ____ + [ ]
_____________________________________ Recharge ____ + [ ]
_____________________________________ Recharge ____ + [ ]
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I like the sheet. While I like more figs, 5 is more approachable for most gamers. I can live with the option. Just might hurt target audience.
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The veterans option will allow 5 model groups. That shoul serve.
I just hope folks can get some games in and we can collect more feedback. Eager for that! 😄
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Played a game tonight but not a huge amount of feedback unfortunately. We played the Seek and Find scenario with 3 players, 2 characters each. Spiderman with movement 11 (Fast boost and Super Agility) and a flying Iron Man pretty much ran away with it after grabbing 3 fragments and bolting off the board. I feel like more characters would have worked better as then you can spare some to harass opponents while others grab fragments so we'll probably try that next time (and make sure we have faster characters on all our teams ;)). One thing with the scenario, is the TN penalty from Stygian Darkness applied to the fragments e.g. should it always be TN4 and not 3?
Regarding the Sorcery major power, how does it work with powers that are passive rather than explicitly used e.g. if you used regen when would you decide to use it since it happens automatically at the start of a turn. Do you turn on things like Super Strength for a single attack? Also how does it work with abilities that themselves have a chance roll, do you need to make a chance roll for sorcery to use the ability again and then another roll for the ability's own chance roll?
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Hey not too late to get in on the testing? I had a blast working with the SS4 suggestions and been itching to do some more supers stuff and getting motivated.
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Regarding the Sorcery major power, how does it work with powers that are passive rather than explicitly used e.g. if you used regen when would you decide to use it since it happens automatically at the start of a turn. Do you turn on things like Super Strength for a single attack? Also how does it work with abilities that themselves have a chance roll, do you need to make a chance roll for sorcery to use the ability again and then another roll for the ability's own chance roll?
Excellent observation!
Does this clarify things?
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Sorcery (major)
Your knowledge of the arcane arts makes you a dangerous and versatile foe. Select two major powers and three minor powers. This list comprises your grimoire. Once you use one of these powers during a game, note it. You cannot use it again unless you make 2+ Recharge roll for it. Remember, recharge rolls require a free action, you’ve got three free actions per turn, and you can check each power or ability for recharge once per turn. Passive powers like Regen count as being used when they first activate. For example, a Sorcerer with Regen takes a point of Body damage. When his next turn begins he rolls 2D, scores 2 goals, and heals one Body, and Regen counts as being used and does not activate until it recharges.
If a power in your grimoire has two Recharge rolls, one for Sorcery and one for the power itself, always use the harder of the two rolls to see if the power returns for use.
You can change the contents of your grimoire between games by expending a story point (see Chapter 5 for more on story points).
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Hey not too late to get in on the testing? I had a blast working with the SS4 suggestions and been itching to do some more supers stuff and getting motivated.
Not too late! Just download the latest version from the box account!
https://app.box.com/s/4sx2qknhb2nd4ptn8o4wrvmqd3ldgoa6
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Passive powers like Regen count as being used when they first activate. For example, a Sorcerer with Regen takes a point of Body damage. When his next turn begins he rolls 2D, scores 2 goals, and heals one Body, and Regen counts as being used and does not activate until it recharges.
If a power in your grimoire has two Recharge rolls, one for Sorcery and one for the power itself, always use the harder of the two rolls to see if the power returns for use.
Cheers, can you still choose when to use them or will the power activate automatically the first time it would be applicable. E.g. in your example will regen automatically happens at the start of a turn in which the sorceror starts at less than full health?
In the case of passive powers do you activate it at the start of the turn, how long do they last? E.g. super agility has a movement buff and a defence buff, if you used it in your turn to scale a wall would you get the defence re-rolls until your next turn?
Also you might want to specify that you can't take Sorcery as one of your major power choices for Sorcery, I'm sure no one would be so cheesy but you never know. ;D
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More clarification:
Sorcery (major)
Your knowledge of the arcane arts makes you a dangerous and versatile foe. Select two major powers (excepting Sorcery) and three minor powers. This list comprises your grimoire. Once you use one of these powers during a game, note it. You cannot use it again unless you make a 2+ Recharge roll for it. Remember, recharge rolls require a free action, you’ve got three free actions per turn, and you can check each power or ability for recharge once per turn. Passive powers like Regen activate on your command and count as being used when they first activate. For example, a Sorcerer with Regen takes a point of Body damage. When his next turn begins he chooses to activate it and rolls 2D, scores 2 goals, and heals one Body, and Regen counts as being used and does not activate until it recharges.
Any power you activate lasts until the beginning of your next turn.
If a power in your grimoire has two Recharge rolls, one for Sorcery and one for the power itself, always use the harder of the two rolls to see if the power returns for use.
You can change the contents of your grimoire between games by expending a story point (see Chapter 5 for more on story points).
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OK, so the rules are tightening up nicely. I have a question. We can eliminate one area of complexity by eliminating the Aced (Coup de Grace for you longtime SS fans) rule and just having KO's.
This will make it less likely for characters to die in post-battle.
I am leaning toward zapping the Ace. Thoughts?
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On reading through, it feels like it wouldn't be intentionally used often, because it's seems only useful if you have nothing better to spend your action on and charging or attacking an enemy would usually be a better use of your one combat action. This has been my experience playing a few games so far.
There's also the other extreme, where if your opponent has lost several models and is outnumbered, you could have a quick figure run around doing nothing but acing fallen enemies, making it more difficult for a whole team to potentially recover.
Again though, I haven't used it yet, so some testing is required, but I'd be okay with cutting it. Perhaps make it optional? Maybe devoting a section to optional rules and putting Aced and Card Based Initiative there?
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I have downloaded and printed the playtest rules (ink-save option), but I am not sure whether I shall have time for reading them until after Horisont VIII (Nov 18-20 - I may have some down-time at the convention where I can get the binder out), as I am painting minis for a multi-player participation scenario I am bringing.
I am quite exited about the prospect of a fast-to-ready supers game, though (I actually have both some heroes and a villain with henchmen painted up for SuperSystem 2 (and own SuperSystem 3, just never got around to adjust the profiles).
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On reading through, it feels like it wouldn't be intentionally used often, because it's seems only useful if you have nothing better to spend your action on and charging or attacking an enemy would usually be a better use of your one combat action. This has been my experience playing a few games so far.
There's also the other extreme, where if your opponent has lost several models and is outnumbered, you could have a quick figure run around doing nothing but acing fallen enemies, making it more difficult for a whole team to potentially recover.
Again though, I haven't used it yet, so some testing is required, but I'd be okay with cutting it. Perhaps make it optional? Maybe devoting a section to optional rules and putting Aced and Card Based Initiative there?
This separate section of optional rules could work. We'll see. I a growing more inclined to cut it entirely. One less complication.
Also, Erethor, I'd like to place you in the play-test credits. PM me your name or post it here, or otherwise I will just use Erethor. ;)
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This separate section of optional rules could work. We'll see. I a growing more inclined to cut it entirely. One less complication.
Also, Erethor, I'd like to place you in the play-test credits. PM me your name or post it here, or otherwise I will just use Erethor. ;)
PM Sent. Thanks for the acknowledgement!
Also had a couple rules clarifications/questions -
Climbing: It says vertical surfaces with ladders are "treated normally for the purposes of calculating distance moved" and surfaces without stairs/ladders "halves the models movement total." It then says that you "may not charge up a vertical surface, and must stop at its base and wait until next turn to begin [ascending]"
I understand not being able to charge on stairs/ladders, but does that mean you still need to stop at the base of stairs/ladders before ascending next turn, or is that only on surfaces without stairs/ladders?
Example: Batman stands on the edge of a 5" high building. Killer Croc (5" move) is 2" away from the building. He wants to climb up a ladder to fight Batman on the rooftop. Can he begin ascending (move into contact with the building and then climb his remaining 3" up the ladder, moving the rest of the way on later turns) or does he need to stop at the base and wait until next turn to begin climbing?
I have been playing as not being able to charge on vertical surfaces, but you can begin climbing on stairs/ladders without waiting a turn.
Summoning: First, is it an action (free, move or combat/special) to use the ability? Second, do you have to choose a difficulty to test against, or do you automatically get the stats of however many goals you rolled?
Example: Multiplex decides to form a copy of himself (uses Summoning). He rolls a check and scores 4 goals. Does the summoner get a model get the stats for the TN4 creature, or did he have to announce what he was trying to summon before rolling?
Henchmen: Are they meant to be used in scenarios only, or also as a replacement for a single model (e.g. 4 supervillains vs 3 superheroes and a squad of cops?)
Also, the example for outnumbering says 10 henchmen vs "Ox" get +3D to melee (+2D for outnumbering and +1D for charging.)
Should that be +3D (the max for outnumbering) +1D for charging, for a total of +4D, or can henchmen only ever get a max bonus of +3D in combat?
Apologies if any of this sounds nitpicky/needlessly complex. I want to separate the intent of these rules vs whatever baggage/leftovers I may be filling in from other rulesets.
Thanks for your time!
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PM Sent. Thanks for the acknowledgement!
Also had a couple rules clarifications/questions -
Climbing: It says vertical surfaces with ladders are "treated normally for the purposes of calculating distance moved" and surfaces without stairs/ladders "halves the models movement total." It then says that you "may not charge up a vertical surface, and must stop at its base and wait until next turn to begin [ascending]"
I understand not being able to charge on stairs/ladders, but does that mean you still need to stop at the base of stairs/ladders before ascending next turn, or is that only on surfaces without stairs/ladders?
Example: Batman stands on the edge of a 5" high building. Killer Croc (5" move) is 2" away from the building. He wants to climb up a ladder to fight Batman on the rooftop. Can he begin ascending (move into contact with the building and then climb his remaining 3" up the ladder, moving the rest of the way on later turns) or does he need to stop at the base and wait until next turn to begin climbing?
I have been playing as not being able to charge on vertical surfaces, but you can begin climbing on stairs/ladders without waiting a turn.
I clarified this. If there's a stair/ladder, you can keep charging, otherwise you stop.
Summoning: First, is it an action (free, move or combat/special) to use the ability? Second, do you have to choose a difficulty to test against, or do you automatically get the stats of however many goals you rolled?
Example: Multiplex decides to form a copy of himself (uses Summoning). He rolls a check and scores 4 goals. Does the summoner get a model get the stats for the TN4 creature, or did he have to announce what he was trying to summon before rolling?
I clarified this text.
Summoning (major)
You can use a special action to summon beings to fight for you and your team! The type of being or creature you summon is based on its difficulty to summon. Roll 4D and check your goals:
-- 3 goals = Body 3, Psyche 3, Move 5”, 1 minor power
-- 4 goals = Body 4, Psyche 4, Move 6”, 1 minor power
-- 5 goals = Body 5, Psyche 5, Move 7”, 1 minor power
Alternately, on a 4+ goal check you can choose to summon a henchmen group (see Chapter 4: Henchmen). Summoned models show up within 10” of you. Your summoned character or henchmen move and act on your activation, and may act the turn they arrive. Summoning drains you, and once you successfully summon during a game, this power cannot be used again until you make a 2+ Recharge check.
Henchmen: Are they meant to be used in scenarios only, or also as a replacement for a single model (e.g. 4 supervillains vs 3 superheroes and a squad of cops?)
Also, the example for outnumbering says 10 henchmen vs "Ox" get +3D to melee (+2D for outnumbering and +1D for charging.)
Should that be +3D (the max for outnumbering) +1D for charging, for a total of +4D, or can henchmen only ever get a max bonus of +3D in combat?
Clarified this text.
Apologies if any of this sounds nitpicky/needlessly complex. I want to separate the intent of these rules vs whatever baggage/leftovers I may be filling in from other rulesets.
Thanks for your time!
I really appreciate it! Finding these little issues and inconsistencies helps a lot!
And you are in the credits!!! ;)
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Hi,
Had another game and I'm really enjoying the simplicity that does still manage to capture the range of powers in your avaege supers comic or cartoon. My boys have been my oponents so far and the eight yoear old fully gets it, the five year old just rolls the dice hes told to.
We decided we wanted some weaker heroes, sort of the counterpart of the power house in your rules. So we called them street level and allowed then a pick of two minor powers. Two are worth a single regular hero. I thought I'd share because it adds variety with very little to no increase in game mechanics.
So we ended up with:
Luke Power the bullet proof bruiser with minor super strength and armour (resistance or density increase would also have been options.)
Steel Foot the chi-charged martial artist with melee wepon and resistance representing his super agility that lacks any wall climbing or rope swinging.
and
Hazy Evening the bionically enhanced ex-cop. Melee weapon and minor power blasts.
They teamed up with the wildcard Arachnoman to take on the smash it up crew.
Archnoman (wild card): Super agility, minor super strength, entangle and telekinesis.
Smash it up crew:
Smasher, wild card, minor super strength, melee weapon, minor power blasts and armour.
Dozer, minor super strength and armour.
Diesel hammer, minor super strength and resistance.
Wrecking Ball, melee weapon and minor power blasts.
It worked really well though I suppose the real test would be four street level verses two regular heroes. You'll be pleased to know spidey er I mean Arachnoy and pals got the better of the smash it up crew in about five turns.
Once I've finished re-painting all the 'clix I'm using (some done not all) and finished our little card section of NYC I'll post some pics.
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Hi,
Had another game and I'm really enjoying the simplicity that does still manage to capture the range of powers in your avaege supers comic or cartoon. My boys have been my oponents so far and the eight yoear old fully gets it, the five year old just rolls the dice hes told to.
We decided we wanted some weaker heroes, sort of the counterpart of the power house in your rules. So we called them street level and allowed then a pick of two minor powers. Two are worth a single regular hero. I thought I'd share because it adds variety with very little to no increase in game mechanics.
So we ended up with:
Luke Power the bullet proof bruiser with minor super strength and armour (resistance or density increase would also have been options.)
Steel Foot the chi-charged martial artist with melee wepon and resistance representing his super agility that lacks any wall climbing or rope swinging.
and
Hazy Evening the bionically enhanced ex-cop. Melee weapon and minor power blasts.
They teamed up with the wildcard Arachnoman to take on the smash it up crew.
Archnoman (wild card): Super agility, minor super strength, entangle and telekinesis.
Smash it up crew:
Smasher, wild card, minor super strength, melee weapon, minor power blasts and armour.
Dozer, minor super strength and armour.
Diesel hammer, minor super strength and resistance.
Wrecking Ball, melee weapon and minor power blasts.
It worked really well though I suppose the real test would be four street level verses two regular heroes. You'll be pleased to know spidey er I mean Arachnoy and pals got the better of the smash it up crew in about five turns.
Once I've finished re-painting all the 'clix I'm using (some done not all) and finished our little card section of NYC I'll post some pics.
Wow, that sounds great! Offering the lower powered option intrigues me. Let me think on that one. As a followup question, what did you set the minor hero Move, Body, and Psyche at? 6", 4, and 4?
Also, make sure I have your name so I can place you in the play-test credits! :)
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Yeah 6", 4 and 4 without thinking really. We didn't include backgrounds but then we aren't really rolling that at the moment, not that I don't like the idea and when I bring this to my gaming group rather than sons we will be using the RPG elements more. I guess one back ground for minor/street heroes could work.
My actual name is Chris Gillson but I've been Erny online for so long that’s pretty much my name too now.
Thanks for providing a supers game I have the time to get into, work, family and a decreasing attention span has meant all previous attempts have floundered.
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Another minor suggestion. With vehicles it might add a bit more variety if you have the different sizes have different movement speeds? That way a small bike/car can be fast and a huge tank will be lumbering. It would also balance out the varying body points a bit.
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Ok, adjusted vehicle speeds as per YPU's suggestion, and included a Street-Level archetype in the sidebar with the Powerhouse.
These will be reflected when I upload the latest version (1.11) later today.
Thanks for all of the excellent feedback so far!
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Is it just free to activate powers that are part of the Sorcery pool whenever you like, as in they don't take an action free or otherwise? Can you use multiple powers per turn? If you have flight active as a sorcery power and are in mid air at the start of your turn would you fall immediately or make a recharge check to keep it active? Sorry to continue picking at Sorcery but it's a powerful ability with potentially complex interactions (also I saw Dr Strange at the weekend ;D).
For the swinging part of super agility how does it work exactly? You can travel between structures up to 15" apart, do you need to be standing on one to begin with or in contact with it? Where does the movement put you in relation to the target structure?
On the subject of Super Agility, the Armor power seems a little underwhelming compared to it as it gives you 2 re-rolls on defence which Super Agility gives in addition to other benefits. Other powers like Shrinking also give the same advantage plus much more?
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Is it just free to activate powers that are part of the Sorcery pool whenever you like, as in they don't take an action free or otherwise? Can you use multiple powers per turn? If you have flight active as a sorcery power and are in mid air at the start of your turn would you fall immediately or make a recharge check to keep it active? Sorry to continue picking at Sorcery but it's a powerful ability with potentially complex interactions (also I saw Dr Strange at the weekend ;D).
Let me know if this clears up some of the ambiguity:
Sorcery (major)
Your knowledge of the arcane arts makes you a dangerous and versatile foe. Select two major powers (excepting Sorcery) and three minor powers (excepting Magic Hammer and Shield). This list comprises your grimoire. You can access one major power and one minor power from your grimoire each turn, but you must follow the normal rules for activating each power. Once you use one of these powers during a game, note it. You cannot use it again unless you make a 2+ Recharge roll for it. Remember, recharge rolls require a free action, you’ve got three free actions per turn, and you can check each power or ability for recharge once per turn. Passive powers like Regen activate on your command and count as being used when they first activate. For example, a Sorcerer with Regen takes a point of Body damage. When his next turn begins he chooses to activate it and rolls 2D, scores 2 goals, and heals one Body, and Regen counts as being used and does not activate until it recharges.
Any power you activate lasts until the beginning of your next turn. If you fail to re-activate a power like Flight or Super-Agility, you land safely or find yourself safely at the bottom of whatever vertical surface you were clinging to.
If a power in your grimoire has two Recharge rolls, one for Sorcery and one for the power itself, always use the harder of the two rolls to see if the power returns for use.
You can change the contents of your grimoire between games by expending a story point (see Chapter 5 for more on story points).
Example: Prof Weird possesses Sorcery. His powers include Healing (major), Power Blasts (major), Flight (minor), Force-Field (minor), and Telekinesis (minor). On round one Prof activates Power Blasts (major) and Flight (minor). He takes off flying, hovers 20” above the battlefield, and uses Power Blasts to target Wildman 22” away. At the start of his next turn, he uses free actions to see if Flight and Power Blasts remain available. He rolls only 1 goal for Flight, and the power deactivates; he floats gently to the ground. He rolls 3 goals for Power Blasts and can blast away again this round. In the meantime he chooses Force-Field as his minor power for the round.
For the swinging part of super agility how does it work exactly? You can travel between structures up to 15" apart, do you need to be standing on one to begin with or in contact with it? Where does the movement put you in relation to the target structure?
Some revised text on Super-Agility:
Super-Agility (minor)
You are gifted with incredible, sometimes superhuman athleticism! You gain +2 Re-rolls on defense checks against Body damaging attacks. You can move up, hang from, and walk along vertical surfaces as if they were normal ground. You can also spend a Move action to move between structures or other vertical terrain pieces within 15” of each other by swinging on lines or making highly agile leaps. You must be in contact with one of the structures before initiating this move. Place yourself anywhere on the structure within 15” of your starting point.
Example: Arachno-Man (Super-Agility) starts his turn next to a building and moves straight up the side 7” (his normal move). Next turn, he measures and notes a nearby building sits 14” away. He spends his Move action and places himself on the side of that building. It pays to be super-agile!
On the subject of Super Agility, the Armor power seems a little underwhelming compared to it as it gives you 2 re-rolls on defence which Super Agility gives in addition to other benefits. Other powers like Shrinking also give the same advantage plus much more?
Yeah, Armor seems under-powered. I made it 3 Re-rolls to beef it up.
Thanks! :)
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Yeah, Armor seems under-powered. I made it 3 Re-rolls to beef it up.
This might go against the nature of goal system, but how about making it one or more auto goals?
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This might go against the nature of goal system, but how about making it one or more auto goals?
That introduces a new rules scheme. Not sure about it. I'll think on it a bit.
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That introduces a new rules scheme. Not sure about it. I'll think on it a bit.
Pretty much my thinking also. Then again looking at some of the other minor powers, say super agility ::), introducing "x auto goals" would not be that dramatic a rules addition.
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Yep that clarifies the Sorcery rules pretty well, especially the examples. :)
Auto-goals for armour would thematically make sense in that armour always offers some defensive protection, not sure how much more powerful a guaranteed goal would be versus 3 re-rolls which have a very high chance to produce a goal.
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I took a look on the beta rules, it looks great !
Will SMF also offer a sologaming appendix (maybe simplier than in 4th edition) ?
thank you !
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I updated the doc on the box account!
No plans for any solo rules, but the rules are pretty simple and accessible, so they would not be too tough to adapt to solo play.
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The cards driven activation is a good start, already !
But it's definitly an interesting project, something between the "almost rpg" super system and other simplier games !
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Pretty much my thinking also. Then again looking at some of the other minor powers, say super agility ::), introducing "x auto goals" would not be that dramatic a rules addition.
Point well taken! :) As a minor power, 1 Auto-goal? That seems pretty potent.
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Currently, my vote goes for no auto-goals for Armor. That feels like it could make it too powerful, and perhaps reduce some combat tension.
Imagine you only need one hit to knock out an opponent, and potentially end the match. You both roll your attack and defense dice respectively...and you win combat by a single point! Now, your opponent has 3 re-rolls from Armor. It's unlikely, but if he doesn't get any goals, you can pull off a win! All eyes are on the dice...
It's these moments of tension that can elevate a game to excitement.
Now to be fair, I AM being extreme and describing a specific circumstance, and adding in auto-goals isn't going to "suck away fun" or necessarily prevent these tense moments from occurring. And I don't just want to be a stick in the mud, so I'll try a few games out with Armor having an auto-goal and see how it works out, and maybe post thoughts later.
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Currently, my vote goes for no auto-goals for Armor. That feels like it could make it too powerful, and perhaps reduce some combat tension.
Imagine you only need one hit to knock out an opponent, and potentially end the match. You both roll your attack and defense dice respectively...and you win combat by a single point! Now, your opponent has 3 re-rolls from Armor. It's unlikely, but if he doesn't get any goals, you can pull off a win! All eyes are on the dice...
It's these moments of tension that can elevate a game to excitement.
Now to be fair, I AM being extreme and describing a specific circumstance, and adding in auto-goals isn't going to "suck away fun" or necessarily prevent these tense moments from occurring. And I don't just want to be a stick in the mud, so I'll try a few games out with Armor having an auto-goal and see how it works out, and maybe post thoughts later.
Thanks! Do let me know. As it stands Armor provides 3 Re-rolls. That's pretty buff. But we'll see. I am not averse to trying new things, especially for this set.
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Would an auto-goal be in addition to normal roll or count one of the dice as a success? Once armour's buffed up though it starts making resistance look underpowered now though they can stack for Brick characters I guess.
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Keep in mind that as of now it's still 3 Re-rolls, but here's how I might write it:
Armor
You possess damage resistance from super-thick skin or some kind of worn armor. Ignore the first lost Body damage box you suffer from melee or ranged attacks.
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Keep in mind that as of now it's still 3 Re-rolls, but here's how I might write it:
Armor
You possess damage resistance from super-thick skin or some kind of worn armor. Ignore the first lost Body damage box you suffer from melee or ranged attacks.
Ah OK, so not so much an auto-goal (though i guess mechanically the same result) but just automatically blocking one point of damage from each attack, yeah that's pretty strong. I do feel there does need to be differentiation between the various defence powers though.
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I love the simplicity of ignoring the first damage for armour but fear that written this way it is the equivalent of a +1D that auto passes making the +1D of resistance pointless.
On the other hand two rerolls is pretty good, with the potential to provide 4 goals against just two for resistance. How about letting armour stack like some of the other powers. Buy it twice and get 3 rerolls? Thats seven dice and getting on for three sure goals.
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I love the simplicity of ignoring the first damage for armour but fear that written this way it is the equivalent of a +1D that auto passes making the +1D of resistance pointless.
On the other hand two rerolls is pretty good, with the potential to provide 4 goals against just two for resistance. How about letting armour stack like some of the other powers. Buy it twice and get 3 rerolls? Thats seven dice and getting on for three sure goals.
Keep in mind I updated Resistance to give it some extra oomph:
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Resistance (minor)
You’re super-tough! Gain +1D on all defense checks from Body damaging attacks and +1D on KO checks.
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At TN4, the KO check is tough. Resistance will give you 5D instead of the normal 4D to make it. If you also have Iron Will, that would be 6D on the KO check, so you're likely to make it.
So Armor in its current scheme at +3 Re-rolls seems about even with Resistance and its capabilities.
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It's these moments of tension that can elevate a game to excitement.
I agree too (no automatic armor). In comics, we sometimes see sidekicks having their momentum and defeating big badies/heroes. That's a cool thing, and it's always a load of fun on the tabletop when a cheap/weak unit destroys the big monster or hero !
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I agree too (no automatic armor). In comics, we sometimes see sidekicks having their momentum and defeating big badies/heroes. That's a cool thing, and it's always a load of fun on the tabletop when a cheap/weak unit destroys the big monster or hero !
Even with 1 damage prevented that would still happen given the way damage is dealt in the game. It's worth seeing how the current 3 re-rolls works out first though.
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Well, at least my suggestion got people talking. lol Like I said before I can see both sides of the argument, but haven't gotten in any actual play so my opinion is kind of moot anyway.
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Well, at least my suggestion got people talking. lol Like I said before I can see both sides of the argument, but haven't gotten in any actual play so my opinion is kind of moot anyway.
Hey, I have not dismissed it out of hand. I am planning to test it today. It's simplicity in play really attracts me to it. So we'll see.
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I'd be much obliged to anyone out there with a penchant for design to take this format and make it into a Character sheet capable of fitting on 1/2 and 8.5" x 11" page:
Super Mission Force!
Name___________________
Archetype________________
Move______
Body [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ]
Psyche [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ]
Melee Attack (Body) 4D + _____ = _____ Melee Defense (Body) 4D + _____ = _____
Ranged Attack (Body) 4D + _____ = _____ Ranged Defense (Body) 4D + _____ = _____
Psyche Attack 4D + _____ = _____ Psyche Defense 4D + _____ = _____
Major Powers
_____________________________________ Recharge ____ + [ ]
_____________________________________
Minor Powers
_____________________________________ Recharge ____ + [ ]
_____________________________________ Recharge ____ + [ ]
_____________________________________ Recharge ____ + [ ]
_____________________________________ Recharge ____ + [ ]
Backgrounds
_____________________________________
_____________________________________
Notes
_____________________________________
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I'd be much obliged to anyone out there with a penchant for design to take this format and make it into a Character sheet capable of fitting on 1/2 and 8.5" x 11" page:
Well I'm not a designer by any stretch but this is what I came up with for me and my friends to use (we weren't using backgrounds). I based the box format on the SuperSytem sheets with the bold box for dice and lighter for re-rolls. Working on one more like your example at the moment with a list of powers and recharge values.
(http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k504/KHoneyman/Miniatures/Supers/SMFCharSheetV1.jpg~original)
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What about something like this, I have it two to a page in landscape format?
(http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k504/KHoneyman/Miniatures/Supers/SMFCharSheetV2.jpg~original)
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Cat, that second one is great! Thanks! Can you send me a PDF file of it, two sheets to a page? :)
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Ok, uploaded latest version!
Changes from discussion here and play-tests I ran today:
Archery
Clarified some text to make it clearer you can use only one power per turn.
Armor
Officially adopted YPU's suggestion. It automatically soaks 1 Body damage. I just like how simple it is and how elegantly it plays.
Magic Hammer
Rewrote some of it to match the setup of other powers.
Savant
Clarified some text so folks are cleared on what the re-rolls can be use for
Scrapper
Dropped the defense bennie to +1D from the previous +2D, also made Counterattack's recharge 3+. I love Scrapper and now I think it's more fair. It gives a lot of benefits.
Telekinesis
Nerfed this a bit so you can only move one friendly model. The previous version was too powerful! Learned this the hard way in a battle!
Here's the link again:
https://app.box.com/s/4sx2qknhb2nd4ptn8o4wrvmqd3ldgoa6
Thanks!
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Cat, that second one is great! Thanks! Can you send me a PDF file of it, two sheets to a page? :)
Sure, need to wait till I get home from work.
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Updated and uploaded a new version.
I combined obscure and invisibility into one power listing and synchronized their mechanics.
I think it's simpler now.
I tweaked Fortune. It was a bit too powerful at +2D and a Recharge 2+, but I think it's better now at +1D[1] and a Recharge 2+.
I added all of the Backgrounds to each Archetype, as you can give an example of just about any background matching an archetype.
I also added the table that shows average goals scored on various dice pools.
A few other odds and ends.
Thanks!
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Haven't read the most updated version, but the new changes seem like they would work well. Played a game last night-had some thoughts that seem to have already been addressed!
-Scrapper's defense seemed too strong, especially in tandem with super-agility. +1D to defense seems about right.
-Armor providing 3 re-rolls makes a tough nut to crack. Ignoring 1 damage automatically provides a better minimum benefit, and keeps armor from potentially providing 6 extra goal rolls! Also, when fighting against Scrapper, I ended up not wanting to even use Armor re-rolls in case I roll really well and end up counter-attacked! 1 damage ignore seems the way to go.
-Street-Level archetypes are a great addition. Had one on each team and seemed balanced..
-Super-agility allowing swinging only if in contact with another vertical surface. Led to a bit of a silly situation where batman can't swing up to a gargoyle in range, unless he first runs across the street to touch another building. Assuming this is for balance, but doesn't seem like balance will be broken if this is ignored.
-Sidekick/Servitor is too random, which may be the point, but it feels like any other power slot would be more useful. You're trading a minor power for the chance to have an underpowered street-level archetype show up. Not sure how I would change it and keep balanced though...
Played the Weapon scenario. The TN6 defense seemed too tough. I might play again with it even just down to TN5 to see how it works out. Anybody else have similar issues?
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Haven't read the most updated version, but the new changes seem like they would work well. Played a game last night-had some thoughts that seem to have already been addressed!
-Scrapper's defense seemed too strong, especially in tandem with super-agility. +1D to defense seems about right.
Yeah, this works much better in the play-tests when I adjusted it.
-Armor providing 3 re-rolls makes a tough nut to crack. Ignoring 1 damage automatically provides a better minimum benefit, and keeps armor from potentially providing 6 extra goal rolls! Also, when fighting against Scrapper, I ended up not wanting to even use Armor re-rolls in case I roll really well and end up counter-attacked! 1 damage ignore seems the way to go.
Yep, I feel good about Armor now.
-Street-Level archetypes are a great addition. Had one on each team and seemed balanced..
That's why I bring stuff to LAF--you guys deliver!
-Super-agility allowing swinging only if in contact with another vertical surface. Led to a bit of a silly situation where batman can't swing up to a gargoyle in range, unless he first runs across the street to touch another building. Assuming this is for balance, but doesn't seem like balance will be broken if this is ignored.
Well, the idea is that Batman would use Super-Agility's ability to move up vertical surfaces to climb up to the gargoyle. He can literally charge up there. But I'm willing to listen to more feedback on this.
-Sidekick/Servitor is too random, which may be the point, but it feels like any other power slot would be more useful. You're trading a minor power for the chance to have an underpowered street-level archetype show up. Not sure how I would change it and keep balanced though...
Well, you have a 75% of him showing up each game. But I see your point too.... Not sure how to address this, if at all, but I'll think about it.
Played the Weapon scenario. The TN6 defense seemed too tough. I might play again with it even just down to TN5 to see how it works out. Anybody else have similar issues?
I agree. I reduced it to TN5. Hope that works better!
Thanks! :)
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An adjustment on Servitor / Sidekick:
Servitor/Sidekick (minor)
You have a servitor or sidekick who sometimes shows up to help out! This might be a young ward, a robot you built, an old Army buddy, or anything else you can think of! Make a 1+ Chance Roll before each battle. If you succeed, you begin the battle with a sidekick or servitor character. He or she counts as an ally and team member for the battle. The model possesses a single minor power of your choice (excluding the Servitor/Sidekick and Magic Hammer powers), Body 3, Psyche 3, and a Move of 6”. If you fail the Chance roll, your servitor/sidekick still shows up, but not until the beginning of round 2! If your servitor/sidekick perishes, you can replace him before the start of the next battle, but your chance for him to show up that next battle rises to 2+. In subsequent battles the Chance Roll returns to 1+.
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Looking forward to a few playtest games with Cait Sidhe next week. Taking a few days of annual leave for a get together involving much wargaming.
I've looked out my old boxes of Heroclix so have a fair variety of figs to play around with. Might even take a few photos although I've only just started a new board so it'll be a tad rough and ready... :D
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Personally I'm quite curious to see how some of the more extreme cases stack up. In particular somebody going all street level vs. somebody going all powerhouses. With the simple customization we have right now they might actually stack up ok in the end, since there isn't enough room to min-max things to breaking point.
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Personally I'm quite curious to see how some of the more extreme cases stack up. In particular somebody going all street level vs. somebody going all powerhouses. With the simple customization we have right now they might actually stack up ok in the end, since there isn't enough room to min-max things to breaking point.
Me too! And I hope this is the case. The abstraction can work in our favor here.
I am just working around the edges on things now. Tightening and balancing as we go. For example, I felt like Density Increase need a little more oomph, so I added +1 Re-roll on melee attacks to it. Also gave Melee Weapon a dice bonus when breaking objects. Just little things like that.
I hope to get in another play-test game or two this weekend.
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Play test notes...
Pictures at http://rangerdavegames.blogspot.com/ (http://rangerdavegames.blogspot.com/)
Seek and Find, Subplot resource and image (felt super to the game), Emanations (again cool)
Knocked out two heroes. Captured one.
Possible rule book edits
Page 5 character ask for description, this is not on the character sheet
Page 12 asterisk on too many places, Move, BD, PD, choose 3
Page 48 subplot TN2 or TN3
Page 24 Teleport example 2+ chance, unless teleporting hero counts
Page 36 Not a big deal, but I thought you were going to allow range in close combat. Works either way.
David
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Hey guys,
I've been away for a few days, but managed to play my first game with fellow play tester SurfSlurf yesterday. We had some fun and had ourselves a discussion about the rules.
We both have some questions and comments, sorry for the lengthy post.
Questions:
1. Can you use more than one movement based power as part of your move action? Example: Flight and Shrinking.
2. If you stand up from being prone/knocked down, can you still start flying?
3. Can you use healing to heal yourself, since it says models in melee contact and doesn't mention self healing? If so, maybe add it.
4. When you turn invisible while in melee contact, can you still be targeted by an attack without any check?
Comments:
1. We don't think Super Strength needs a ranged attack, it doesn't add to the character of the power to be able to pull a big piece of whatever out of thin air and throw it. If you want a thing like this add a throw object super club variant.
2. The shield is a little OP, especially the ranged stance, we would remove the re-roll at least.
3. In comparison with other ranged powers (or powers with a range capability like shield or super strength) Archery is under powered. We thought adding a re-roll and giving you one arrow of each type, meaning 5, for one use only (except blast), no recharge. You can only carry that many arrows but at least you have an arrow for each situation.
4. Why do blasters and speedster have access to super strength, I know it doesn't matter anymore since you can mix and match now (which isn't in the spirit of the game), but still.
This leads me to this and I said this before, you have to choose which path to take, the complete and more difficult super game (you did this, it's called Super System) or the fast pick up and play you want to make now. If you want to make a fast game there are going to be limitations. I don't think giving this game the mix and match option aids in this regard. I understand this is done mostly for people who want to play with named supers and recreate them, but for custom supers this is paradise, as it opens the game for some nasty combo's.
5. Why don't you make melee weapon an auto hit like armor too? Please don't make it so. And don't make armor an auto too. If you do this give other powers auto's too, it was good with 2 re-rolls, why change a good thing?
6. And the best for last... Flight... OP much. Do you realize that you can hover 1” above the battlefield and be completely immune to melee attacks. Or that you can move well out of range of any ranged attack just by flying 20” above a building. Give flight a fixed hover hight (same as in SS4) , say 15”, that way flight has the minor disadvantage of not being able to seek cover as easily . And removes the OP possibilities, plus it plays faster and that is the whole point right.
I think that is about it for now (no doubt forgot some stuff).
Greetings,
Zeebeest & SurfSlurf.
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Hey guys,
I've been away for a few days, but managed to play my first game with fellow play tester SurfSlurf yesterday. We had some fun and had ourselves a discussion about the rules.
We both have some questions and comments, sorry for the lengthy post.
Wow! Ok, lots of stuff to dig into, so let's get started!
1. Can you use more than one movement based power as part of your move action? Example: Flight and Shrinking.
Generally no. I fixed Shrinking's wording it makes it clear that it's a free action to shrink or grow, not connected to Move.
2. If you stand up from being prone/knocked down, can you still start flying?
Yes. This would be part of your move.
3. Can you use healing to heal yourself, since it says models in melee contact and doesn't mention self healing? If so, maybe add it.
Yes, I adjusted the wording ot make this clear. I also adjusted the way healing works a bit. It' a major power and should be pretty good. If you check the latest download you'll see the changes.
4. When you turn invisible while in melee contact, can you still be targeted by an attack without any check?
Yes. I changed the way Invisibility / Obscurement work. They're melded together now, much simpler, and much easier to use in play, IMO.
As an aside, I dislike powers like Invisibility for skirmish games. Skulking around and making yourself impossible to attack are not fun, IMO. So these new versions reflect this. You can ALWAYS attack an Invisible / Obscured character now. If you can't detect them, they'll just gain a bonus based which version of the power they took. Each version requires a Recharge check after the first turn of use.
Comments:
1. We don't think Super Strength needs a ranged attack, it doesn't add to the character of the power to be able to pull a big piece of whatever out of thin air and throw it. If you want a thing like this add a throw object super club variant.
I respectfully disagree. ;) I read a ton of comics. A lot of Trimpe Hulk issues. He's always grabbing stuff and throwing it around, and so do his foes. That being said, I nerfed it a bit for major Super-Strength, and took it away entirely for minor Super-Strength. Hope this compromise works for you!
2. The shield is a little OP, especially the ranged stance, we would remove the re-roll at least.
Again, I agree to an extent. The ranged attack remains, but now it's a flat 3D, 10" ranged attack--should not be as good as a minor Power Blast.
3. In comparison with other ranged powers (or powers with a range capability like shield or super strength) Archery is under powered. We thought adding a re-roll and giving you one arrow of each type, meaning 5, for one use only (except blast), no recharge. You can only carry that many arrows but at least you have an arrow for each situation.
I think Archery gives you a lot of versatility. Unlimited minor Power Blasts, and one guaranteed use of each power in your quiver is pretty good, and you've a chance to use them again if you make the roll.
4. Why do blasters and speedster have access to super strength, I know it doesn't matter anymore since you can mix and match now (which isn't in the spirit of the game), but still.
These selections could be a topic of endless discussion since we can all name characters who have featured certain power combos. That being said I've gone back and reexamined every set for the standard Archetypes. I made it so each standard Archetype has 7 selections, and I re-jiggered some of the picks. Take a look and let me know what you think.
More on your other point, which seems to have unsettled you a bit, in a moment. ;)
s me to this and I said this before, you have to choose which path to take, the complete and more difficult super game (you did this, it's called Super System) or the fast pick up and play you want to make now. If you want to make a fast game there are going to be limitations. I don't think giving this game the mix and match option aids in this regard. I understand this is done mostly for people who want to play with named supers and recreate them, but for custom supers this is paradise, as it opens the game for some nasty combo's.
I have been thinking about this the last few days and I agree with you. I removed the section on mixing and matching. It's gone. Players can employ the golden rule of Goalsystem games and do all of the mixing and matching they want without my permission. I want SMF to be a quick, fun, pick up and play Supers game with a few deeper campaign elements thrown in. A hard line to walk, but I think I am doing it so far. We'll see....
5. Why don't you make melee weapon an auto hit like armor too? Please don't make it so. And don't make armor an auto too. If you do this give other powers auto's too, it was good with 2 re-rolls, why change a good thing?
I like experimenting with different mechanics, and having used the current version of Armor (with the 1 auto-soak), I like it. I don't find it at all disruptive in play or over-powered. When you invest a Minor power, it's a big resource, I feel like Armor's very simple, potent 1 auto-soak rewards that.
I played a game yesterday where we had Hulk built as a Powerhouse (combining Brick and Wildcard) against MODOK and Armadillo. Both Hulk and Armadillo had Armor, and it did not detract from play IMO. It worked out fine. I will be curious to get other folks' take on it too.
6. And the best for last... Flight... OP much. Do you realize that you can hover 1” above the battlefield and be completely immune to melee attacks. Or that you can move well out of range of any ranged attack just by flying 20” above a building. Give flight a fixed hover hight (same as in SS4) , say 15”, that way flight has the minor disadvantage of not being able to seek cover as easily . And removes the OP possibilities, plus it plays faster and that is the whole point right.
I think that is about it for now (no doubt forgot some stuff).
I fixed this. Of course it was never my intent for this to be the case. It was just a quirk of the wording, but thanks to you, it's fixed! :)
Really great feedback. You and your buddy are making this a better game, and I really appreciate it!
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I have been thinking about this the last few days and I agree with you. I removed the section on mixing and matching. It's gone. Players can employ the golden rule of Goalsystem games and do all of the mixing and matching they want without my permission. I want SMF to be a quick, fun, pick up and play Supers game with a few deeper campaign elements thrown in. A hard line to walk, but I think I am doing it so far. We'll see....
I heartily agree, I meant to send a PM to you on this subject but got busy this week. You original vision is great and you shown you have proven instincts when it comes to design. Simple, fun, super :D
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Play test notes...
Pictures at http://rangerdavegames.blogspot.com/ (http://rangerdavegames.blogspot.com/)
Seek and Find, Subplot resource and image (felt super to the game), Emanations (again cool)
Do you mean felt "superfluous"? If so, not a good thing. I like the Sublot mechanic a lot and I am hoping it works for folks. It lets you inject some character elements into the game, and rewards you with a few extra dice to be used in crucial moments. This IMO, of course. ;)
In using it so far, I've liked it. But I am biased! ;D
Page 5 character ask for description, this is not on the character sheet
Fixed this!
Page 12 asterisk on too many places, Move, BD, PD, choose 3
Fixed.
Page 48 subplot TN2 or TN3
Fixed!
Page 24 Teleport example 2+ chance, unless teleporting hero counts
Fixed!
Page 36 Not a big deal, but I thought you were going to allow range in close combat. Works either way.
Yeah, must be used outside of Melee; this allows for niche protection for the Brawlers and Bricks. And that 30" range is deadly with 6D.
Thanks! Great job making the rules tighter!
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I heartily agree, I meant to send a PM to you on this subject but got busy this week. You original vision is great and you shown you have proven instincts when it comes to design. Simple, fun, super :D
Thanks! You and Zeebeast have nicely steered me back to my original intent. This process is about compromises, of course. I am always willing to listen to constructive feedback!
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Thanks! You and Zeebeast have nicely steered me back to my original intent. This process is about compromises, of course. I am always willing to listen to constructive feedback!
That's the plan :)
I really love SS4 and this is not it! This is a whole different beast (ok, maybe it has the same ears and tail, but you get my drift). Supersystem to me is about being able to create almost anything and taking the time (quite a lot) to make it work.
SMF is the game I will pick up when playing with less experienced people or just don't have the time to invest, but still want to get the intense feel of a superhero game.
I have a feeling that my SS4 and SMF games will flow into each other in the future.
Hopefully I'll get some more playtests soon and try to break your game (we are min maxers, it's what we do). But only so we can make this a real good game.
Thanks for the great feedback, additions, clarifications and especially the opportunity to be a part of this.
Greetings,
Zeebeest (stupid thing to mention, but you keep writing my name wrong lol).
Ps: forgot one thing we discussed. How about the boosts, although since mix&match is gone this is maybe it's good to keep them. We don't think you need them since you can take powers and the though boost for example is a bit like armor imho. Let me think about this some more lol.
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Hey guys,
Something to ponder on...
Say you shrink, crawl aboard a speedster and ride along into combat next turn.
Do you automaticaly enter combat when the speedster does? We would say yes.
And if the speedster charges, do you also gain the bonus for charging since you also benefit from the momentum? We would say no.
Greetings,
Zeebeest&SurfSlurf.
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I don't agree with removing the Mix and Matching part. The whole section is about discussing it with your group and about how it's optional. It's not about trying to find a "killer combo", it's about wanting a specific feel for a hero/villain that the other options don't provide. There's even a balancing option (subplot dice) for those who feel it's over powered.
I've made TONS of characters using SS4, put in lots of time. I can make those same heroes in less than a minute, even with mixing and matching, in SMF. I don't find there to be any "time investment" beyond what the normal rules require.
The gameplay doesn't become any more complicated. I don't feel it takes away from the design simplicity to say "here's some cool ideas that you and your group may want to talk over and incorporate." Groups are going to do that anyways, but many people may have different ideas about how to incorporate mixing/matching (maybe even involving points costs :o ), and having some kind of official word/starting point goes a long way.
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I agree with Erethor. I belive a, friendly game doesn't need to worry about min maxing. Indeed all the best games I can think of have loop holes you could drive a tank through if you put your mind to it. Now I'm an adult, who happens to play toy soldiers, I can decide to ignore rules and add rules if I want but that makes it a game yuo have to modify, the tone of a rules set can make or break a classic. I've bought a load of skirmish rules over the past few years many rely on achitypes and the first thing that happens is you make note of the ones that are missing, the rules you need to ignore or add, then you think why bother perhaps the next one cracks it.
I get SS4, its a bit crunchy for me these days but I get the fun of a really tight broad rules set, a broad range of powers and combinations in high detail. Looser rules sets are fun too. This puts me in the opposite camp to zeebeest capturing the breath of powers of ss4 is a good thing not a bad thing. Restrictions aren't fun, choice is but for simplicities sake we just loose a little detail to abstraction that we fill in with imagination. So capturing the tightness of ss4 is where you should diverge otherwise you just have SS4 light. Indeed if you did that you'd have a bit of a holy grail of supers games on your hands.
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Ps: forgot one thing we discussed. How about the boosts, although since mix&match is gone this is maybe it's good to keep them. We don't think you need them since you can take powers and the though boost for example is a bit like armor imho. Let me think about this some more lol.
I like the added versatility boosts provide. They're simple and give someone other options. So we'll be keeping them! :D
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I had some questions about Flight. Does hovering 15" above the battlefield mean from the lowest point of the battlefield (the table) or whatever is beneath the flying model (buildings, stairs, etc.)?
If the figure is hovering 15" away, are 15" powerblasts still able to hit them? If so, and if they can't be targeted in melee anyways, there's no point in specifying a "hover distance".
One idea I had for flight was along the lines of:
"Activate this power at the beginning of your move action. You can land as a free action. You can fly up to 20" per turn, up or down any height, ignoring terrain and other characters that don't also have flight. While flying, you cannot be targeted by melee attacks by non-flying enemies. If you attack a non-flying enemy in close combat, you are no longer considered flying."
This doesn't include the fly-by attack, or carrying stuff, but just a general idea of how to restructure the power. Thoughts?
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Ok, I tried cleaning this up and clarifying it.
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Flight (minor)
Activate this power and take flight at the beginning of your move action. You can land as a free action. You can fly up to 20” per turn, ignoring any grounded models or obstacles in your path. You may choose to land on an object or piece of terrain, or hover in place. When you do hover you float 15” above the tabletop. When hovering you cannot be targeted with melee attacks by foes on the ground. When you attack a grounded foe in melee you are considered to be landed, and cannot take off again until your next turn. This counts as charging.You can carry a single passenger or object commensurate with your strength level. A flying character with normal strength can carry a single normal sized passenger, but a super-strong flyer can carry large objects aloft with them.
Characters targeting flying foes with ranged attacks should simply measure the linear distance between them.
Example: Grav-Girl (Flight) starts her turn on the ground and takes off as part of her Move action. She flies 10” and along the way swoops down and strikes at Wildman. She hits him and does 2 Body damage. She’s now landed and in melee with WIldman.
Example: Doc Shock targets Ferrosaur with a ranged attack. She hovers 15” in the air, and 24” away from Doc, but his player simply measures the 24” linear distance. That’s well within Doc’s 30” Power Blast range!
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Borrowed a bit from SS4, a bit from what was there, and some of your suggested text, Erethor.
God, I hate writing flying rules. o_o
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First off I agree about the section on mixing up power choices. I don't see any harm in including it, it's very clear the intended balance is what's available and it's purely optional. I'd also like to see boosts stay, quite often the available powers don't fit what you're going for and it's good to have some generic options.
So played a three player game tonight with 2 characters each, just a straight up fight no fancy scenarios. We came up with quite a few questions on how some things work exactly but we didn't write them down... so just going by memory and there will probably still be a lot. :)
1. Heh, great one of my many queries was gonna be about flying and range (hovering 15" meant you couldn't hit or be hit by minor power blasts except directly above) which you've already clarified now. I assume the linear range measurement counts for flyers shooting characters on the ground too?
2. Also what happens when a flyer is hit by entangle? Is there any way to force a flyer down besides the Speedster maneuver?
3. When are recharge rolls made? I feel like I read that they happen at the start of the turn but couldn't find anything specific. If you use a power that needs a recharge and have free actions remaining that turn can you immediately make a recharge check for it in the same turn?
4. Using telekinesis you can move an ally who is 15" away so I guess you can move them a completely different direction from the character using the power? Do they need to remain within 15" during the move?
5. How does the super club portion of telekinesis work as there's no specific rules for throwing stuff? Can you grab an object up to 15" away and smack an enemy who's also 15" away with it in one combat action? Does the item need to be within a certain distance of the target?
6. For Sorcery and powers which require a recharge roll already you simply use the higher, what of abilities that can be pushed at the cost of adding a recharge? There appears to be no downside to taking 6D force fields on every use when using sorcery as there will always be a 2+ recharge on it anyway.
7. Can the summoning power be used to summon more and more creatures? Is there a limit to how many things you can have summoned?
8. Is the Knock Out roll made immediately upon losing the last pip of health? We had a scenario where Spiderman punched Venom taking off the last of his health and knocking him off a roof, would he make the knock out roll before the fall or after?
9. With multiple players (more than 2) how should the initiative/turn order go? We played that highest initiative could activate a model or defer to next highest then they could do the same.
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Hey guys,
First and foremost, it's great to see people argue about a game in it's early stages. That's what it's all about. We are trying to help Scott make his vision clear and in doing so trying to make his game, our game.
About the mix/match subject. I don't think it is needed, in a way that you can make almost any character you can think of (custom or named), by using the rules as they are now. Using the wildcard opens up almost any super combination you want and for those super supers (looking at you big blue), you can always use the powerhouse archetype.
In some very rare cases you might not get to create that one special guy who has it all. Well I hear talk of friendly games, then there is the solution of house ruling, most of the time it will only be one power you can't take so no problem there right. I personally don't think you should include rules for those rare occasions. And I am happy to help make characters you don't think are possible to do or at least give my interpretation of them.
I like the flight rules as they were, the addition of the ranged attack vs flight is weird because previously a flying character could hover up to 20” and be unreachable by most attacks, that's why 15” is better. Remember that flight is a real strong power and a flying blaster for example is a very dangerous opponent.
Boosts. It was just a thought, I don't mind them, just don't see me using them much since there are so many other tasty powers around :).
Thanks for reading my opinion and I hope we can discuss some more in the days to come so we can make one hell of a game together. I'm sure Scott values all opinions and reads through all of them with great care.
Greetings,
Zeebeest.
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1. Heh, great one of my many queries was gonna be about flying and range (hovering 15" meant you couldn't hit or be hit by minor power blasts except directly above) which you've already clarified now. I assume the linear range measurement counts for flyers shooting characters on the ground too?
Works the same. I clarified this.
2. Also what happens when a flyer is hit by entangle? Is there any way to force a flyer down besides the Speedster maneuver?
Added this note to Entangle:
If you entangle a flying target he is tethered in place. If he fails his first breakout attempt he lands on the spot below him and remains entangled.
3. When are recharge rolls made? I feel like I read that they happen at the start of the turn but couldn't find anything specific. If you use a power that needs a recharge and have free actions remaining that turn can you immediately make a recharge check for it in the same turn?
Beginning of the turn. I clarified this.
4. Using telekinesis you can move an ally who is 15" away so I guess you can move them a completely different direction from the character using the power? Do they need to remain within 15" during the move?
No, you cannot. He must remain within your 15" sphere. I clarified this.
5. How does the super club portion of telekinesis work as there's no specific rules for throwing stuff? Can you grab an object up to 15" away and smack an enemy who's also 15" away with it in one combat action? Does the item need to be within a certain distance of the target?
Your target had to also be within 15". And yes, you can grab and strike, just like the rules under super-clubs indicate.
6. For Sorcery and powers which require a recharge roll already you simply use the higher, what of abilities that can be pushed at the cost of adding a recharge? There appears to be no downside to taking 6D force fields on every use when using sorcery as there will always be a 2+ recharge on it anyway.
I fixed this. The recharge increases by +1 for any power push used in the sorcery package.
7. Can the summoning power be used to summon more and more creatures? Is there a limit to how many things you can have summoned?
Yes. But I increased the Recharge to 3+
8. Is the Knock Out roll made immediately upon losing the last pip of health? We had a scenario where Spiderman punched Venom taking off the last of his health and knocking him off a roof, would he make the knock out roll before the fall or after?
Yes, the rules state that when you mark your last box in a track off, you make the check. If you pass it in your case, then you deal with the fall.
9. With multiple players (more than 2) how should the initiative/turn order go? We played that highest initiative could activate a model or defer to next highest then they could do the same.
I clarified this a but in the text, but that's right.
Thanks!
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Hey guys,
First and foremost, it's great to see people argue about a game in it's early stages. That's what it's all about. We are trying to help Scott make his vision clear and in doing so trying to make his game, our game.
Hello Zeebeest,
I don't know you personally, so I hope this is a case of me misunderstanding what you are trying to say. But I think it may be an unfair characterization to say arguing. I don't feel there's any conflict about what's going on. We each have our own preferences and feedback to provide about how the game is developing. We can disagree without it being "arguing".
And above all, it's still Scott's game. Nobody is trying to take that away. Even if my thoughts/preferences veer outside the "intent" of the game and therefore make me not in the "target audience" that's still good information for a developer to have! Providing our thoughts on the game is what playtesting is all about!
About the mix/match subject. I don't think it is needed, in a way that you can make almost any character you can think of (custom or named), by using the rules as they are now.
I don't know your thoughts about the optional Street Level archetype, but I love it! (Without feedback, would we have gotten this?) It seems like this came from the rules, as released, not providing a suitable option for lower/underpowered heroes. It's not about trying to game the rules or eke out any advantage, it's about going after a certain feeling. I think mixing/matching is along the same lines.
Using the wildcard opens up almost any super combination you want and for those super supers (looking at you big blue), you can always use the powerhouse archetype.
My concern with Wildcard is that you can't have any Major powers, some of which may provide the exact feeling I want for a certain character.
For example, Cheetah and Deathstroke (DC villains) are both experts in hand-to-hand (Cheetah can go 1v1 with Wonder Woman!). If I decide to make them Brawlers (the obvious first choice for expert hand-to-hand combatants) Cheetah can't get her (minor) super strength and Deathstroke can't get use of his auto-pistols (minor power blast).
Now sure, I can use Wildcard instead and give them powers to make something close to what I want, but they may not have the specific feeling I was going for that I might get from another archetype. And that's what it comes down to. Not about trying to make overpowered combos or break the rules. It all comes down to trying to achieve a certain feeling.
In some very rare cases you might not get to create that one special guy who has it all. Well I hear talk of friendly games, then there is the solution of house ruling, most of the time it will only be one power you can't take so no problem there right. I personally don't think you should include rules for those rare occasions.
I feel like you're lumping together anyone who wants mixing/matching as some kind of power gamer (apologies if that's not your intent, I don't mean to assume).
Overall, I think you're trying to veer away from an over-abundance of options and I would agree, but in this case we are talking about something completely optional that doesn't add any crazy new rules or complications. If you don't want to use the optional rules for mixing/matching (or powerhouse and street level archetypes while on the subject), you simply don't.
Now, many will want to mix and match regardless of what the rules say. And I think that kind of tinkering should be encouraged, but some structure should be provided, and nothing would do that more than including it in the rulebook ;)
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I have some rules questions:
Damage Field: It says "Anyone touching you (successful attacks or knockbacks) suffers a 4D Body damage attack." Does this only apply when they hit you and not when you attack them? If so, I'm unclear on the "knockbacks" portion. Is that where an enemy may be knocked into contact you, then they suffer the attack?
Entangle: Says "You can entrap foes in melee or as a ranged attack up to 10” away" (emphasis mine) and "Make a +2D entangle attack." So is entangle a straight 6D roll, or is it +2D to whatever kind of attack roll you're making? For example, does the +1D bonus from power blasts (minor) or +1D melee bonus from Growth stack with the Entangle bonus (in both cases making it 7D)? or can you apply the +2 rerolls from Melee Weapon to a melee Entangle roll?
Speed: With Move-by Attack, does your movement need to be in a straight line, or are you able to zigzag between enemies as long as you have movement?
Teleport: The example includes the Teleporter as a passenger, based on the recharge roll needed. Is this correct? If so, does this mean a teleporter needs to make a recharge roll after every teleport?
Some Design questions:
Massive: It provides the same Body and Move bonus as Amphibious, but also comes with a defense drawback, whereas Amphibious provides another bonus when in water. As is, it still seems like a useful option, but is Massive letting you serve as a mount enough of an equalizer? (genuinely not sure without more playtesting)
Shield: Should the shield ranged attack be 3D? Would 4D be too powerful? 4D follows the general "standard" of 4D (plus any bonuses) for every other Super. At straight 4D and 10" range, it's still less powerful than Minor Power Blasts (as it should be) and that's not including the chance to lose the shield. 4D feels a bit more uniform/harmonious.
Thanks for your time!
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I dunno if power suggestions are something your taking at the moment but it occurs to me some kind of life stealing power would be useful as it's a reasonably common thing in comics. I had assumed the vampire power was that, but on reading it's a little more niche. Not sure how to avoid it being overpowered maybe something like every 3 damage you inflict in melee heals you one health or something?
I don't know you personally, so I hope this is a case of me misunderstanding what you are trying to say. But I think it may be an unfair characterization to say arguing. I don't feel there's any conflict about what's going on. We each have our own preferences and feedback to provide about how the game is developing. We can disagree without it being "arguing".
I could be wrong but I don't think Zeebeest meant that negatively, I think he meant "discussing" rather than argue.
I also feel wildcard isn't necessarily a substitute for swapping in powers. You might not want to give them 4 different powers or you might need a major power and you're also limited to 2 Wildcards per team so you can't keep using it to make characters fit. Take Cyclops for instance, he's clearly a blaster but which of the currently allowed minor powers fit? In the previous version I gave him Fortune but named it tactics to simulate his training and ability to react but it's no longer a viable option for a Blaster.
I know the game isn't meant to be SuperSystem and indeed compromises have to be made but lets face it, people are still going to want to use it to recreate Marvel or DC characters so the option (and it is optional) should be there. I feel right now the rules already achieve the goal of a simpler set of rules you can get set up and playing within a short amount of time, I don't think and optional suggestion changes that.
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Hey guys,
Sorry if I offended anyone, definitely not my intention. I didn't use the word arguing in a negative way or at least not meant it that way. My sincerest apologies.
What I meant was that I'm happy to hear different sides and opinions, especially people who mean it well and want to put in the effort to make stuff like this work.
I understand the reason why you want the mix/match (optional) rule. People will do so whether it is written in the rules or not, and no not for power but for getting the right feel of a character. For me personally it isn't needed, so far I managed to create any character I wanted without to much compromise or losing to much 'character' on them.
The game has grown a lot in the 2 weeks (I think) since it was released to us, and that is all thanks to the feedback, thoughts and ideas people like us give him. I for one am thankful there are a lot of different people, with different ideas helping on this project. All sides have their pro's and cons. Scott will have think about what he sees as the best way for his vision to come to life.
Again my sincerest apologies.
Greetings,
Zeebeest.
Ps: funny how I see cheeta as a speedster and deathstroke more as a melee and ranged weapon fighter. Even wonder woman, I don't like her anymore these days, she is becoming the next superman, it used to be just a lasso and some bracers, but now she's a demi-godess. Supers these days have it all, I like he good old days when you could get around with one or two special things. Sorry, sidetracking.
I for one appreciate the take you guys have on the game and am always prepared to listen, read and 'argue' about it ;).
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I have some rules questions:
Damage Field: It says "Anyone touching you (successful attacks or knockbacks) suffers a 4D Body damage attack." Does this only apply when they hit you and not when you attack them? If so, I'm unclear on the "knockbacks" portion. Is that where an enemy may be knocked into contact you, then they suffer the attack?
Both. I tweaked the example on this. Will upload new file in an hour or so.
Entangle: Says "You can entrap foes in melee or as a ranged attack up to 10” away" (emphasis mine) and "Make a +2D entangle attack." So is entangle a straight 6D roll, or is it +2D to whatever kind of attack roll you're making? For example, does the +1D bonus from power blasts (minor) or +1D melee bonus from Growth stack with the Entangle bonus (in both cases making it 7D)? or can you apply the +2 rerolls from Melee Weapon to a melee Entangle roll?
Entangle is a 6D ranged attack only. I adjusted it to this.
Speed: With Move-by Attack, does your movement need to be in a straight line, or are you able to zigzag between enemies as long as you have movement?
You can zigzag.
Teleport: The example includes the Teleporter as a passenger, based on the recharge roll needed. Is this correct? If so, does this mean a teleporter needs to make a recharge roll after every teleport?
I fixed this error this morning. Will be reflected in the upload.
Some Design questions:
Massive: It provides the same Body and Move bonus as Amphibious, but also comes with a defense drawback, whereas Amphibious provides another bonus when in water. As is, it still seems like a useful option, but is Massive letting you serve as a mount enough of an equalizer? (genuinely not sure without more playtesting)
I added +1 Re-roll on charge attacks for being Massive. This should balance the scales.
Shield: Should the shield ranged attack be 3D? Would 4D be too powerful? 4D follows the general "standard" of 4D (plus any bonuses) for every other Super. At straight 4D and 10" range, it's still less powerful than Minor Power Blasts (as it should be) and that's not including the chance to lose the shield. 4D feels a bit more uniform/harmonious.
Thanks for your time!
Like Magic Hammer, Shield offers a lot of bennies. I like the 3D 10" ranged attack--remember, you roll 4D unless a power or situation dictates otherwise.
Ran a very fun play test game this morning. The Weapon. Cap, Thor, Hawkeye, and Ant-Man VS MODOK, Scorpion, Electro, and Armadillo. Very satisfying, tautly played game. Made a few adjustments to The Weapon because of it.
Again, will upload latest version soonish!
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Hey guys,
Sorry if I offended anyone, definitely not my intention. I didn't use the word arguing in a negative way or at least not meant it that way. My sincerest apologies.
Thanks, but you have nothing to apologize for. I was not offended and genuinely wasn't sure what you meant. As I said, I could have misread the situation and I did. I didn't want to seem accusatory but I may have still come across that way. Please accept my apologies.
*edit*
PM sent.
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Let me interrupt the love-in ( ;D, you folks are the best!) to offer this power I threw together for the latest update:
Parasite (minor)
You drain the vital energies of your foes and use them to power and heal yourself! Make a 5D Psyche based attack against a foe in melee contact with you. Every Psyche damage box you remove heals one of your own missing Body or Psyche damage boxes, or adds +1 Re-roll to the next dice check of your choice. Re-rolls from this power max out at +3. You can mix and match these benefits as you see fit. For example, if you drain 3 Psyche from a foe, you could heal 2 Body of your own and add +1 Re-roll to your next attack check, or you could heal 1 Psyche, 1 Body, and add +1 Re-roll, and so on.
Comments welcome!
And thanks!
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Hit with Stun during flight? Same Q as Entangle.
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Another play test with pics at http://rangerdavegames.blogspot.com (http://rangerdavegames.blogspot.com)
Added henchmen
The metamorph was captured from last game. So one side down one hero.
Rolled Weapon scenario with Toga-God. Mentalist gave talking to Toga a shot, failed, and one well rolled shot he was knocked out. No one else tried again o_o
Questions/notes
-Phase 2: Building Your Legend, Esoteric Bumps, 4 +1D to Post-Battle Checks**
Include pre-? Post knockout is at 5D or only to backgrounds? I could use extra dice or rerolls for knockout :'(
- need book title on character sheet.
- so you can recharge the turn you use a recharge power use it as a free action?
- is force field of free action?
- Force Field, is the second 4D against what comes through after your first roll?
- maybe write up the rescue scenario like the others
Battle about seven turns. Again very super hero in feel. I never took out the weapon, but could've used some Advanced Archetype Maneuvers to help boost. 10 henchmen was perfect. All the team members on one team knocked out . They rolled very well and will return with +1D for half the team.
David Ross
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I like the idea of Parasite as a power, but a read-through of it feels too strong.
Vampire lets your melee attack count as Psyche damage. Parasite gives you a 5D melee psyche attack that lets you heal or get re-rolls. Vampire has campaign bonuses, but Parasite still seems way stronger. I think most supers won't have a bonus to psyche defenses, so it's likely for a Parasite model to get a heal back each attack.
They're also kind of similar thematically (Vampires are kind of parasitic creatures), should these two powers be combined?
Regen only lets you heal 1 body and 1 psyche max per turn and that's IF you pass the chance roll. I would suggest that Parasite still let you heal/get re-rolls, but in a limited sense, maybe such as:
"Parasite (minor)
You drain the vital energies of your foes and use them to power and heal yourself! Make a 5D Psyche based attack against a foe in melee contact with you. If you remove at least 1 Psyche damage box, you may heal one of your own missing Body or Psyche damage boxes, or add +1 Re-roll to the next dice check of your choice. You may save Re-rolls gained from this power until you wish to use them, but you may never add more than +3 to any single roll. "
Changes italicized. Thoughts?
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I like the idea of Parasite as a power, but a read-through of it feels too strong.
Vampire lets your melee attack count as Psyche damage. Parasite gives you a 5D melee psyche attack that lets you heal or get re-rolls. Vampire has campaign bonuses, but Parasite still seems way stronger. I think most supers won't have a bonus to psyche defenses, so it's likely for a Parasite model to get a heal back each attack.
They're also kind of similar thematically (Vampires are kind of parasitic creatures), should these two powers be combined?
Regen only lets you heal 1 body and 1 psyche max per turn and that's IF you pass the chance roll. I would suggest that Parasite still let you heal/get re-rolls, but in a limited sense, maybe such as:
"Parasite (minor)
You drain the vital energies of your foes and use them to power and heal yourself! Make a 5D Psyche based attack against a foe in melee contact with you. If you remove at least 1 Psyche damage box, you may heal one of your own missing Body or Psyche damage boxes, or add +1 Re-roll to the next dice check of your choice. You may save Re-rolls gained from this power until you wish to use them, but you may never add more than +3 to any single roll. "
Changes italicized. Thoughts?
I like it!
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Questions/notes
-Phase 2: Building Your Legend, Esoteric Bumps, 4 +1D to Post-Battle Checks**
Include pre-? Post knockout is at 5D or only to backgrounds? I could use extra dice or rerolls for knockout :'(
I fixed this to include pre and post-battle checks. Just those checks, not the goal roll you make before the injury test.
- need book title on character sheet.
We'll add this at some point. That sheet is our working copy and will get tweaked.
- so you can recharge the turn you use a recharge power use it as a free action?
No. The rules state you recharge powers/abilities at the beginning of your turn. I just bolded this text so it stands out more.
- is force field of free action?
No, it's a defense that occurs on another character's turn, so it costs you nothing in that sense. It's a reaction.
- Force Field, is the second 4D against what comes through after your first roll?
No. It is a separate roll. If the attack beats it, you defend against everything. I clarified this a bit.
- maybe write up the rescue scenario like the others
It would a repeat of the one from a previous SS ed., but I could include it I suppose.
Battle about seven turns. Again very super hero in feel. I never took out the weapon, but could've used some Advanced Archetype Maneuvers to help boost. 10 henchmen was perfect. All the team members on one team knocked out . They rolled very well and will return with +1D for half the team.
David Ross
Great report and great feedback, Dave! Much appreciated, and you're in the credits now! :)
P.S. Great to see my old models on your table!
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Hit with Stun during flight? Same Q as Entangle.
Not sure I understand. Successful Stuns take away either your Move or Combat/Special action. If you choose to lose your move, you just hover there motionless, or land. If you choose to lose your combat/special action, you can move, but that's it.
Let me know what needs clarification here.
Thanks!
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(http://i.imgur.com/j1zygmI.png)
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Great to see my old models on your table!
Thanks again.
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Gorgeous sheet, Buttabean!
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Gorgeous sheet, Buttabean!
Thanks!
Heres a few Blank Template Archetypes With maneuvers added. still a WIP.
(http://i.imgur.com/uzrsGpS.png) (http://i.imgur.com/37u1Nx8.png)
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This is how they turn out in TTS
(http://i.imgur.com/YOwETtw.png)
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Looks awesome!
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Mentalist
(http://i.imgur.com/hCjbn50.png)
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(http://i.imgur.com/0vkDejv.png)
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Those sheets are blowing me away!
Meanwhile, I uploaded the latest revisions.
Highlights include:
-- Addition of Parasite minor power
-- Re-worked Regen to make it a little easier to use; no Recharge roll, but now a bit more random in terms of what you get back
-- Made some edits and tweaks based on other posters' feedback
Keep up the good work!
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A general question for the book:
Would folks find 8 - 10 pre-made characters useful?
The build system is so easy, I am not sure taking up the space with sample characters is advisable, but I would be happy to include two teams of four characters each if folks express interest in this.
Let me know!
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A general question for the book:
Would folks find 8 - 10 pre-made characters useful?
The build system is so easy, I am not sure taking up the space with sample characters is advisable, but I would be happy to include two teams of four characters each if folks express interest in this.
Let me know!
I would say yes, most of us know SuperSystem or are pretty hardcore gamers, hell we hang around on message boards all day talking about them. :) A few examples for those not as immersed in the hobby would open up the appeal to a wider audience.
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A general question for the book:
Would folks find 8 - 10 pre-made characters useful?
The build system is so easy, I am not sure taking up the space with sample characters is advisable, but I would be happy to include two teams of four characters each if folks express interest in this.
Let me know!
A couple sample characters sounds like a good idea. You could even translate over the "Sentinels of the Universe" crew from Void Pirates. They're both sci-fi and superheroes!
An alternative could be a quick run through of actually generating a character, similar to the "$80 Million Dollar Ape" spread from SS4.
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One of each and two sets of Henchmen, let's folks print and run games at Cons (quickly and a bit lazily).
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On a related note, I'd be happy to host a simple list of created characters on the Crossover Miniatures website. I remember how much I loved the old SuperSystem annex and how helpful it was when I was getting started out. Not that you really need this with the simple system, but I really enjoyed the discussion a few pages back on how different people interpreted the same supers.
Only if it's OK with Scott of course.
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(http://i.imgur.com/01u2uJw.png)
(http://i.imgur.com/qkfAmXS.png)
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Slightly off topic but did you create the TTS game set up yourself Buttabean74? Or is there a perhaps heroclix setup for supers like this already in existance to download. Just thinking how easy it would be to set something similar up for gaming with friends that live to far away for real table toips. I've used 2d systems before for large battle games quite well but skirmishes really need the 3d table.
More on topic I'm enjoying how this is all shaping up and should post a proper game up soon.
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Someone has setup a Super system 3rd,on tts,so I'm ajust using the city that he has made,I have created goalsystem dice and both Super system 3 And 4 sheets in the form of a deck of cards,the original creator had cards but it was all in Spanish,tts is pretty much what it says it is,a 3d virtual tabletop with full functionality,You can't automate as much like say Maptools,But it's so fantastic to be able to play vs other people from so far away,it opens a whole new player base. I use it to learn rules and such from many skirmish/Rpg games,from goalsystem to warhammer,sobh,power legion etc.Inexpensive no setup or breakdown the the uses are limitless. There is also a 3d version of Heroclix with working bases pretty amazing,I certainly recommend it,to me it's a necessary 3rd party resource.
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Let's talk book formats for a moment. We're getting close enough to start down this road.
Color. As it stands, SMF will be black & white. I don't have enough color art to warrant a color book, and I am happy with the economy and look of B&W. So that's settled.
Dimensions. Right now we're working with an 8.5" x 11" setup. I liked that on VP, SS4, and B&B, and I like it for this. Either way our layout will be single column with the occasional sidebar.
I am intrigued by Lulu's comic book, digest, and square options.
Binding. Right now it's going to be perfect bound, softcover. I've found the quality of POD hardcovers to be hit or miss from run to run, so I am leery of them. A coil binding has the most utility, and Lulu offers a neat looking A5 option--5.83 x 8.26 inches. That intrigues me.
Joe and I will make the ultimate decision on this, but I wanted to get folks input as well. A lot of folks just buy PDF these days, so our layout will make any size we choose moot--it's going to look good and read really on most any tablet.
Thanks for any input!
P.S. Just a little aside, SMF stands at around 26K words right now, and is close to being complete, in my mind, save for adding sample characters. SS4 finished at over 67K words. They're very different games in terms of design goals. Just a fun little factoid! :D
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Just updated the file. A few little things.
-- Clarified drowning rules
-- removed some duplication on the knocked down rules
-- Added Dangerous Ground as special event/condition to another scenario
-- Failed to mention last time, I nerfed Scrapper (Counterattack) just a bit, it now does a flat 2 Body damage. This makes it less devastating since you can announce its use AFTER you see the combat results. Still recharges on 3+, so you will likely get one use of it per battle.
Thanks!
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Let's talk book formats for a moment. We're getting close enough to start down this road.
Color. As it stands, SMF will be black & white. I don't have enough color art to warrant a color book, and I am happy with the economy and look of B&W. So that's settled.
Dimensions. Right now we're working with an 8.5" x 11" setup. I liked that on VP, SS4, and B&B, and I like it for this. Either way our layout will be single column with the occasional sidebar.
I am intrigued by Lulu's comic book, digest, and square options.
Binding. Right now it's going to be perfect bound, softcover. I've found the quality of POD hardcovers to be hit or miss from run to run, so I am leery of them. A coil binding has the most utility, and Lulu offers a neat looking A5 option--5.83 x 8.26 inches. That intrigues me.
My preferences are for 8.5x11 B&W softcover. Hardcovers tend to be too expensive for a casual investment. Spiral-bound is nice but, depending on the quality, the wire can wear-out easily, and the game is streamlined to where you really don't need to have the book open for rules-referencing.
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You should check with Uncle Mike on the Cthulu Groups that made Strange Aeons, his binding is great, he uses a spiral bound book, softcover but has a nice plastic like cover. I could snap shots, but really it is a well bound book, the spiral makes it easy to open, lay flat and read on a table plus the paper quality has blown any other book out of the water. The book price to me he charged for them was very reasonable.
Black and White works fine, maybe a color front for the book to make it pop.
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I have the Strange Aeons book. It's a lovely book and an excellent example of what a good spiral binding can be.
I don't know if Lulu can do that for us. My current budget and business model (such as it is ;)) confine me to using POD. It just works for where I am as a company right now. So I can't get something approaching that quality thru POD, then I am likely to stick to a softcover, perfect bound book similar to Void Pirates and B&B.
Unless I could finance a sewn binding HC, I am not wild about Lulu's hardcover output. It's Ok. But I am very happy with the softcovers they let you produce.
As it stands Joe and I are hashing out whether we want standard 8.5 x 11 or the more interesting A5 size.
We'll see...
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Played two play-test games today and made some fixes and tweaks. Uploaded latest version reflecting these.
Some stuff:
-- Fixed some minor issues with the Fissure scenario
-- Adjusted some stuff with the Henchmen rules; clarified the 2D rule and Veterans rules a bit
That's mostly it.
The games today went very well!
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Quick rules question. Can a single model have an entangle on more than one enemy?
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If the summoning ability fails to summon anything does it still need to recharge?
Is there any reason henchmen have a limited choice in backgrounds? E.g. what if I want magical zombies or acolytes?
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Quick rules question. Can a single model have an entangle on more than one enemy?
Yes. I added some text on this to clarify.
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If the summoning ability fails to summon anything does it still need to recharge?
Is there any reason henchmen have a limited choice in backgrounds? E.g. what if I want magical zombies or acolytes?
On summoning, you only need recharge on a successful attempt. On Henchmen, I don't see why they shouldn't have all backgrounds. I can change that. I was just trying to be minimalist. :)
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On summoning, you only need recharge on a successful attempt.
What about when the Summoning is part of the Sorcery pool?
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What about when the Summoning is part of the Sorcery pool?
In that case you would need to Recharge it. The spell fails, I guess!
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Thanks for the response!
I have a couple other questions:
-Does anything add bonus dice or rerolls to entangle escape attempts? Like, super-strength (minor) gives +1D to breaking objects or grappling. Would that apply to escaping Entangle? The rules don't say so, but I was wondering if they should, basically counting entangle as a type of grapple?
-To get the +1D bonus for charging, you must move the last 2" in a straight line. If you started your turn 1" away from an enemy, does that mean you can back up a few inches and then move into contact (assuming you had enough movement) and still get the charge bonus?
-About the question from Cait Sidhe on Summoning. He asked about when summoning is part of the sorcery pool. Just to be clear, doesn't Summoning always have to be with Sorcery? I don't see any other way to take Summoning as a major power without taking Sorcery first.
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Thanks for the response!
I have a couple other questions:
-Does anything add bonus dice or rerolls to entangle escape attempts? Like, super-strength (minor) gives +1D to breaking objects or grappling. Would that apply to escaping Entangle? The rules don't say so, but I was wondering if they should, basically counting entangle as a type of grapple?
Good idea. I will add this.
-To get the +1D bonus for charging, you must move the last 2" in a straight line. If you started your turn 1" away from an enemy, does that mean you can back up a few inches and then move into contact (assuming you had enough movement) and still get the charge bonus?
Yeah, I have removed this limit. It allows us to avoid this weird situation of backing up and running back in.
-About the question from Cait Sidhe on Summoning. He asked about when summoning is part of the sorcery pool. Just to be clear, doesn't Summoning always have to be with Sorcery? I don't see any other way to take Summoning as a major power without taking Sorcery first.
This is true. So the note does not need to be there, I suppose. So in this case, you'll need to make the recharge roll whether you successfully summon or not.
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Uploaded latest version!
Highlights:
-- Added some stuff on Henchmen backgrounds
-- Nerfed Magic Hammer just a bit
-- Lowered recharge on Summoning, and adjusted the stats on the summoned characters
-- Changed most bumps to additional re-rolls rather than full dice bumps
And a few other odds and ends I cannot think of right now!
Keep the questions and comments coming! Rules are tightening up nicely.
Here's the link again:
https://app.box.com/s/4sx2qknhb2nd4ptn8o4wrvmqd3ldgoa6
--Scott
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I think just plain summon might make sense as an alternate major power for the sorcerer archetype?
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-About the question from Cait Sidhe on Summoning. He asked about when summoning is part of the sorcery pool. Just to be clear, doesn't Summoning always have to be with Sorcery? I don't see any other way to take Summoning as a major power without taking Sorcery first.
Oh wow, I totally missed that... I assumed it was a minor power. I guess due to no archetype having it as you say.
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I think we can make Summoning a minor power, then change Sorcerer to having one major power, sorcery. Then you can include summoning in your grimoire, and Wildcards can also get it.
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Ok, I've made the following adjustments:
-- Sorcery now allows 1 major power and 4 minor powers
-- Summoning is now a minor power and is accessible to the Sorcerer and Wildcard
-- Reduced the starting Body and Psyche of summoned creatures
-- Summoning now has a note that you only need to recharge on a successful summons.
-- If you place it in the Sorcery package, you'll still need to recharge it after each attempted use. This rule takes precedence over summoning's rule
-- added a note to Melee Weapon explaining that it's +2D bonus for breaking objects is also effective against entangles
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When do you anticipate going live with the rules?
I've supported your games from the original Supersystem forward and want to be sure I get this one as well.
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Thanks, BigB! At the rate we're going I am thinking late December. Depending on Joe D's schedule. We could make a holiday release. But we'll see.
If not, I would guess mid-January.
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Uploaded latest version of the rules!
Lots of little clarifications and tweaks.
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First up the entry for dropping prone mentions the crawling rules as "see Crawling below", the crawling rules come before this as they're in the movement section. Is there any benefit to dropping prone at all? Does it count as knocked down (+1D ranged defence, +1D bonus to enemy on melee)?
Force field states that you choose which characters to protect at the start of your turn, does that mean an extended forcefield persists each turn without using it again? Or should characters be chosen when the special action to extend it is taken and it expires at the start of the users turn?
Move-by Attack, it might be better to say something like "You can take any path between foes adhering to normal movement rules" or something since zigzag conjures up a very specific pattern to me. I assume you can only attack each foe once in any given Move-by Attack?
The change to Sorcery is a bit annoying as before I was able to easily fit the powers on the character sheet by omitting sorcery itself and just annotating it after each power in the pool (2 major and 4 minor slots inc the Sorceror's minor choice). ;D
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I've been following each update to the rules, and eagerly look forward to it going to print. With that said, I really love how this is shaping up and have a few comments:
Could "Magic Hammer" be renamed to "Magic Artifact"? I know it seems minor, but giving it a more open title leaves it to a greater interpretation. Every time I read it I instantly think "Thor", but the actual power can really be any item.
I'd also like to suggest a minor power, "Thrown Weapon". Perhaps a 10" range attack that allows the attacker to use base melee dice, or maybe melee dice at -1D, at range. It would be a better fit for tossed billy clubs, batarangs, or shuriken. "Power Bast" seems a bit too hard hitting for a few of those.
I've considered using "Stun" to simulate it, but it just seems a bit off for some of them.
Thanks for writing this, it fits great with my style of gaming.
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First up the entry for dropping prone mentions the crawling rules as "see Crawling below", the crawling rules come before this as they're in the movement section. Is there any benefit to dropping prone at all? Does it count as knocked down (+1D ranged defence, +1D bonus to enemy on melee)?
I fixed this.
Force field states that you choose which characters to protect at the start of your turn, does that mean an extended forcefield persists each turn without using it again? Or should characters be chosen when the special action to extend it is taken and it expires at the start of the users turn?
I don't understand your question. You designate added protection with your special action, then make your check. So long as those characters stay within 10" of you, they enjoy the protection until the beginning of your next turn. I did add a note that characters must stay within 10" of you.
Move-by Attack, it might be better to say something like "You can take any path between foes adhering to normal movement rules" or something since zigzag conjures up a very specific pattern to me. I assume you can only attack each foe once in any given Move-by Attack?
I fixed this.
Thanks!
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I've been following each update to the rules, and eagerly look forward to it going to print. With that said, I really love how this is shaping up and have a few comments:
Could "Magic Hammer" be renamed to "Magic Artifact"? I know it seems minor, but giving it a more open title leaves it to a greater interpretation. Every time I read it I instantly think "Thor", but the actual power can really be any item.
Thanks! I thought about it and made this change.
I'd also like to suggest a minor power, "Thrown Weapon". Perhaps a 10" range attack that allows the attacker to use base melee dice, or maybe melee dice at -1D, at range. It would be a better fit for tossed billy clubs, batarangs, or shuriken. "Power Blast" seems a bit too hard hitting for a few of those.
I've considered using "Stun" to simulate it, but it just seems a bit off for some of them.
If you look at Shield, it does a good job of modeling Batman's utility belt. Maybe that might work?
Thanks for writing this, it fits great with my style of gaming.
You're welcome! Much appreciated!
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I don't understand your question. You designate added protection with your special action, then make your check. So long as those characters stay within 10" of you, they enjoy the protection until the beginning of your next turn. I did add a note that characters must stay within 10" of you.
The rules for force-field state:
Decide which characters to protect at the start of each of your turns.
But the added protection is done with a special action during the force-field character's activation. Do you decide ahead of time which characters your force field covers each turn (even without using the special action) or is this line left over from an earlier version of the rule?
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The rules for force-field state:
But the added protection is done with a special action during the force-field character's activation. Do you decide ahead of time which characters your force field covers each turn (even without using the special action) or is this line left over from an earlier version of the rule?
Ahh. Got it. Fixed this.
Force-Field (minor)
You wield protective energies. Decide when you acquire this power whether it shields against Body or Psyche damage. Your Force-Field grants you a separate 4D defense goal roll against incoming attacks. If an attack gets through, you must make a second defense goal roll against the full incoming attack. You may also protect additional characters within 10” of you. Use a special action and make a 4D check and note your goals:
2 goals = 1 character
3 goals = 2 characters
4 goals = 3 characters
Decide which characters to protect before making your check. Protected characters must remain within 10” of you to enjoy your Force-Field’s benefits.
Maximum Protection: You can push your Force-Field to its limits, rolling 6D instead of 4D for its protection, but succeed or fail, the power shuts down after this enhanced use. Recharge 2+
Example: Blue Torch has a Force-Field. He decides he wants to protect his pals, Super-Charger (5” away) and Kid Dynamo (8” away). He rolls 4D and scores 2 goals! He can protect only one of his friends, and he chooses Kid Dynamo.
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I've played a test of four street level villains against two regular heroes. I don't want to give away the end as I plan to write it up but I can say that the two heroes found it difficult. The villains were able to gang up very easily, compared to the heroes they effectively get to attack twice and have roughly twice the hit points. The heroes’ combination of multiple powers does help a fraction and if you remember archetype special moves they too help even the odds. Obviously once one street level is down things even up a little more even but the street level villains certainly aren't fragile. Overall I don't think it is overly unbalanced just a very tough battle, the end was close and that perhaps is a good thing. To be certain I guess I need to do another game or two. And then maybe take a power house against the same four villains.
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I've played a test of four street level villains against two regular heroes. I don't want to give away the end as I plan to write it up but I can say that the two heroes found it difficult. The villains were able to gang up very easily, compared to the heroes they effectively get to attack twice and have roughly twice the hit points. The heroes’ combination of multiple powers does help a fraction and if you remember archetype special moves they too help even the odds. Obviously once one street level is down things even up a little more even but the street level villains certainly aren't fragile. Overall I don't think it is overly unbalanced just a very tough battle, the end was close and that perhaps is a good thing. To be certain I guess I need to do another game or two. And then maybe take a power house against the same four villains.
Excellent! Keep us posted.
I ran the Hulk (powerhouse) against two villains and he crunched trem, but it was close.
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I replayed the exact same fight, same villains, same heroes and with a slight change of tactics for the previously losing side and a shift in the dice gods favour I got the opposite result. I'm pretty happy that in at least this case four street level villains are the equivalent of two regular heroes. Perhaps I should try Hulk against the four villains just in case.
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Ok, uploaded latest version.
Changes include:
-- Magic Hammer changed to Magic Artifact to make it more general
-- Magic Artifact now available to Bricks and Wildcards. Now you can do a poor man's Green Lantern or Starman with it instead of using the more complex Sorcery major power
-- Added an example to Magic Artifact
-- Changed Shield's rules to make it mechanically simpler (no chance roll to recover it needed when you throw it) and added a ricochet attack to it. To pay for this I lowered its range to 5"
There's a few other changes in there, but I cannot think of them now!
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The shield change looks good!
I can definitely see how it can be re-purposed for batarangs and billy clubs now.
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The shield change looks good!
I can definitely see how it can be re-purposed for batarangs and billy clubs now.
Yep, that's a nice side benefit. Re-skin away! ;)
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I've moved on to looking at henchman and I'm not sure the veteran ability is quite working as it is.
If I create 10 ninja I can have melee weapons and super agility giving me some good rerolls a base 2D that rises to a fragile 7D in combat and 10 body and 10 psyche. They can also run up walls.
If I make them veteran I can choose either melee wepons or super agility not both. Lets say I choose super agility to enable my ninja moves. I now roll 3D in combat with no rerolls, rising to a fragile 5D with no rerolls. That doesn't look that good compared to 10D[2]. I do have 3d[2] defense as opposed to 2D[2] however my body and psyche is 5.
Legion adds 5 to the group and another potential 2D. That's a decent swap for access to a power, particularly for the types of troops legion is meant for.
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Yep, that's a nice side benefit. Re-skin away! ;)
Maybe you could allow rebounds off walls not just other hit figures. Adds a tactical nuance, represents shield and billy club use in the comics well. Could even enable a round the corner shot if you get lucky. Something like, "Your first target may be a wall or pillar, in which case you designate a point within range and LOS upon a wall or other hard surface. You do not damage your first target but otherwise treat it exactly the same as a shot rebounded from a character target."
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Speaking of henchmen, there's mention of throwing groups of henchmen and treating them as single figures/medium objects etc. There are no rukles for throwing stuff in the game though, is this something accidentally carried from SuperSystem?
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I've moved on to looking at henchman and I'm not sure the veteran ability is quite working as it is.
If I create 10 ninja I can have melee weapons and super agility giving me some good rerolls a base 2D that rises to a fragile 7D in combat and 10 body and 10 psyche. They can also run up walls.
Ok, let's look at this. Your 10 man group has 2D base. The max numbers bonus is +3D, so they'll max at 5D. If you give them Super-Agility that's 5D[2].
Also, they have 10 hits, period. Not 10 Body and 10 Psyche. Each man = 1 damage point, no matter the damage.
If I make them veteran I can choose either melee wepons or super agility not both. Lets say I choose super agility to enable my ninja moves. I now roll 3D in combat with no rerolls, rising to a fragile 5D with no rerolls. That doesn't look that good compared to 10D[2]. I do have 3d[2] defense as opposed to 2D[2] however my body and psyche is 5.
Well, your math up top is wrong. ;) But I may give Veterans one extra power selection as well. That might solve things. How best to make that happen? I'll look at it for a bit.
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I clarified the text on Henchmen damage to make it clear what I was trying to communicate.
Henchmen and Damage
Henchmen Groups don’t possess Body and Psyche ratings; they instead have a damage capacity based on their numbers. If a group of seven of Dr. Simian's Plasti-Men is hit by a ranged attack and takes two Body damage, remove two members of the group. If that same group later takes two Psyche damage from a mental blast, remove two more models--they’re now down to three Plasti-Men!
In campaign games a wiped out henchmen group always returns at full strength during the next battle if it’s part of the player’s regular team line-up. They do show up a tad late however, arriving on the scene at the beginning of round two via their normal deployment edge.
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OK, this should tidy up the Henchmen / Veterans issue,I hope!
Veterans (henchmen minor power)
You comprise a small, crack group of well trained fighters. Add +1D to any dice pool you possess, but your numbers drop from 10 to 5. You can decide whether your group are veterans or not before you select their powers. Veterans cannot also possess the Legion minor power.
Here's what the Archetypes look like now:
Melee Henchmen Archetype
These hordes do their best work close-up and personal!
Basic Stats
Move: 6”
Numbers: 10
[ ] Veterans (Yes____ / No____)
Minor Powers (choose two)
[ ] Melee Weapon [ ] Legion [ ] Resistance [ ] Super-Agility [ ] Super-Strength
Suggested Backgrounds (choose one)
[ ] Arcane [ ] Art [ ] Athletics [ ] Blue Collar [ ] Business [ ] Criminal [ ] Espionage [ ] Exploration [ ]High Society [ ] Medicine [ ] Military [ ] Monarch [ ] Performance [ ] Public Safety [ ] Science [ ] Social Science
Ranged Henchmen Archetype
Whether blaster-wielding shocktroopers or fire-breathing demons, these legions harry foes from distance!
Basic Stats
Move: 6”
Numbers: 10
[ ] Veterans (Yes____ / No____)
Minor Powers (choose one additional power)
[ X ] Power Blasts [ ] Armor [ ] Legion [ ] Resistance [ ] Super-Agility
Suggested Backgrounds (choose one)
[ ] Arcane [ ] Art [ ] Athletics [ ] Blue Collar [ ] Business [ ] Criminal [ ] Espionage [ ] Exploration [ ]High Society [ ] Medicine [ ] Military [ ] Monarch [ ] Performance [ ] Public Safety [ ] Science [ ] Social Science
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Speaking of henchmen, there's mention of throwing groups of henchmen and treating them as single figures/medium objects etc. There are no rukles for throwing stuff in the game though, is this something accidentally carried from SuperSystem?
Yep. I removed this. Unneeded complication for SMF. Thanks!
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Looking over henchmen, I have to ask if there is a reason that there are two different archetypes for melee and ranged? Wouldn't it be better to just give one archetype and have all minion powers as options?
The basic henchmen seem to have the same stats, am I not seeing something that would really differ between them other than Power Blast, Melee Weapon, and Super Strength? With only two minor powers, how unbalanced could it be?
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Hmmm. Consolidation to one archetype? It could work. Let me think on it.
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Ok, I see no reason not to consolidate the two Henchmen archetypes into one (thanks, Nojoy ;)):
Henchmen Archetype
Whether blasting away at range or fighting in melee, henchmen try to overwhelm their foes with sheer numbers. Your minor power selections will determine your group’s capabilities and style. If you select the Veterans option, note that your group’s base numbers drop from 10 to 5.
Basic Stats
Move: 6”
Numbers: 10
[ ] Veterans (Yes____ / No____)
Minor Powers (choose two)
[ ] Armor [ ] Legion [ ] Melee Weapon [ ] Power Blasts [ ] Resistance [ ] Super-Agility [ ] Super-Strength
Suggested Backgrounds (choose one)
[ ] Arcane [ ] Art [ ] Athletics [ ] Blue Collar [ ] Business [ ] Criminal [ ] Espionage [ ] Exploration [ ]High Society [ ] Medicine [ ] Military [ ] Monarch [ ] Performance [ ] Public Safety [ ] Science [ ] Social Science
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Updated the doc a bit:
-- Added a Boost minor power that lets a character buff a target with re-rolls
-- Tweaked Stun a bit to make it simpler to use
-- Consolidated the two Henchmen archetypes into one archetype
-- Also tweaked how you make Henchmen a veteran group
Thanks for your continued feedback!
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Ok, checking in with some updates and a request for feedback.
I changed the new Boost power to Enhance, so it does not confuse folks with the Boosts you can take in lieu of a minor power.
Now, I go to thinking we might could use one more archetype to model leader, mastermind types. Here's what I came up with:
Mastermind Archetype
You're the master planner, natural leader, or brilliant tactician of your team. Your guidance can make or break the destiny of your team! Customize your mastermind with whatever minor powers best capture the look and feel you’re after.
Basic Stats
Move: 6”
Body Damage Boxes: 4
Psyche Damage Boxes: 4
Major Powers
[ ] Enhance
Minor Powers (choose two)
[ ] Armor [ ] Flight [ ] Force-Field [ ] Iron Will [ ] Power Blasts [ ] Resistance [ ] Super-Strength
Backgrounds (choose two)
[ ] Arcane [ ] Art [ ] Athletics [ ] Blue Collar [ ] Business [ ] Criminal [ ] Espionage [ ] Exploration [ ]High Society [ ] Medicine [ ] Military [ ] Monarch [ ] Performance [ ] Public Safety [ ] Science [ ] Social Science
I tweaked basic Enhance to make it work on characters within 5" instead of melee, and then I created a major version that is a 6D roll and works within 10".
Here's the text on the two Enhance options:
Enhance (major)
You can increase the capabilities of characters within 10” of you. Use a special action and make a 6D check. Every two goals you score grant your target +1 Re-roll on a check of his choice. You can split Re-rolls between multiple targets within 10” of you. No single target can benefit from more than +2 Re-rolls from any Enhancement, and can only benefit from one character’s Enhance at a time. Once used any Re-rolls are expended.
Enhance (minor)
You can increase the capabilities of characters within 5” of you. Use a special action and make a 5D check. Every two goals you score grant your target +1 Re-roll on a check of his choice. You can split Re-rolls between multiple targets within 5” of you. No single target can benefit from more than +2 Re-rolls from any Enhancement, and can only benefit from one character’s Enhance at a time. Once used any Re-rolls are expended.
Example: Prof Weird tries to Enhance Ox and Simian. He rolls 5D and scores 4 goals! This gives him +2 Re-rolls to impart, and gives one to Ox and one to Simian. Until each character spends his +1 Re-roll he cannot benefit from further applications of this power.
All I've done in the rules text so far is make the change from Boost to Enhance, and update the enhance text so it works at 5" instead of melee. I feel pretty good about the Mastermind archetype and the major version of Enhance that foes with it, but I thought I'd get some feedback first before installing them in.
Thanks!
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We were lacking a duplicate power.
Here is one:
Duplicate (minor)
You can use a special action to create a copy of yourself! This copy possesses all of your boosts and powers (except for Duplicate) and Move value, but a base Body and Psyche of just one each. Your copy appears within 5” of you, and can act the turn you bring him into play. Additionally your copy automatically fails any KO checks. So long as you make your recharge check each round, you can keep duplicating yourself. Your duplicates always act on your initiative. When one of your duplicates takes damage and fails his KO check, it could take a toll on you. Make a TN2 check. If you fail you suffer 1 Psyche damage. If you’re KO’ed, remove your duplicates from play. Recharge 2+
Example: The Wildcard alien Z-Rox (Move 6”, Body 4, Psyche 4, Duplicate, Super-Strength, Enhanced Senses, Clever) uses a special action and copies himself! The Z-Rox duplicate possesses the following profile: Move 6”, Body 1, Psyche 1, Super-Strength, Enhanced Senses, Clever. When the duplicate Z-Rox arrives within 5” of the master version, he can take his turn as soon as Z-Rox himself finishes his turn. If he gets hit, he’s KO’ed and Z-Rox has to make a TN2 check or suffer 1 Psyche damage.
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I had a couple quick clarifications:
1. Does Teleport require Line of Sight to where you want to go? It doesn't say so, but I wasn't sure if that was the intent. I think it works well as is.
2. Can you Teleport out of combat? Would you still take hits for breaking melee as normal?
3. If you are breaking from melee, and an enemy hits you with their free attack and inflicts knockback, do you continue your move from your new position (the knockback endpoint)?
4. If you are knocked back and would end up over another model, what happens? Do you move into base contact with them? If they are an enemy, are you considered in Melee again?
5. Do models block movement? I assume you can't move through enemy models. But, as some games do, can you move through friendly models as long as you don't end your turn on them? Right now I play as though all models block movement, seems to work well.
Thanks for your time!
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I had a couple quick clarifications:
1. Does Teleport require Line of Sight to where you want to go? It doesn't say so, but I wasn't sure if that was the intent. I think it works well as is.
No it does not. I clarified this.
2. Can you Teleport out of combat? Would you still take hits for breaking melee as normal?
Yes, you can. It does incur a free attack. I clarified this.
3. If you are breaking from melee, and an enemy hits you with their free attack and inflicts knockback, do you continue your move from your new position (the knockback endpoint)?
Yes, you would continue from the point where your KB ended. I added a note on this.
4. If you are knocked back and would end up over another model, what happens? Do you move into base contact with them? If they are an enemy, are you considered in Melee again?
Just place your KB model 1" away from the model you ran into.
5. Do models block movement? I assume you can't move through enemy models. But, as some games do, can you move through friendly models as long as you don't end your turn on them? Right now I play as though all models block movement, seems to work well.
Friendlies do not block, but enemies do. I noted this.
Thanks for your time!
You're welcome!
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Uploaded new version with latest changes and additions.
-- Added new Mastermind archetype
-- Added two maneuvers for the Mastermind
-- Added new Duplicate power
-- Changed Boost to Enhance, and then made minor and major versions of Enhance
Can't think of anything else major right now. But that's a lot! ;)
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As I was going over the new archetype, a question/observation came to me... shouldn't the optional minor powers such as Amphibious and Construct be included in each archetypes checkbox listing?
I also wondered why the boosts are listed separately instead of being minor powers and included in the checkbox.
I can kind of see where you were going, giving options to characters to fit concepts better... But for clarity and simplicity maybe they should be considered minor powers.
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As I was going over the new archetype, a question/observation came to me... shouldn't the optional minor powers such as Amphibious and Construct be included in each archetypes checkbox listing?
Not sure. I want to keep the Archetypes as trim as possible.
I also wondered why the boosts are listed separately instead of being minor powers and included in the checkbox.
I can kind of see where you were going, giving options to characters to fit concepts better... But for clarity and simplicity maybe they should be considered minor powers.
Yeah, I also like them separate for now. They're not really powers, but alternatives anyone can swap out for. This may be a semantic difference, but I like it so far.
Thanks!
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I can respect that, sometimes you just have a vision you need to follow.
Btw, really like the duplication power.
Just re-based 4 Heroclix Sentinels for an X-Men play test. Unfortunately my days off were cancelled, so I may not get a chance until next week to try an actual game. Maybe I can get a handful of Maddox figures before then.
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Uploaded new version with latest changes and additions.
-- Added new Mastermind archetype
-- Added two maneuvers for the Mastermind
-- Added new Duplicate power
-- Changed Boost to Enhance, and then made minor and major versions of Enhance
Can't think of anything else major right now. But that's a lot! ;)
My first thought was that I like the idea of the mastermind archetype, he's pretty clear when you think of good guys. For bad guys, I'm thinking of dudes like the Joker? Then I think of minions for guys like the Joker as he always seems to have them.
So I was going to look at giving him the Duplicate power to represent bringing loads of mooks to the table. Didn't Duplicate used to be able to bring out Henchmen?
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My first thought was that I like the idea of the mastermind archetype, he's pretty clear when you think of good guys. For bad guys, I'm thinking of dudes like the Joker? Then I think of minions for guys like the Joker as he always seems to have them.
So I was going to look at giving him the Duplicate power to represent bringing loads of mooks to the table. Didn't Duplicate used to be able to bring out Henchmen?
You might be thinking of SS4. For Joker I would swap one of his team's character choices for a henchmen group. That solves that well enough.
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Tomorrow I will run some play-test games. To do so I am writing up the Inhumans to use against MODOK and some existing villains (Rhino, AIM Agents, Whirlwind).
Here's how I plan to stat out my Inhumans:
Inhumans
Black Bolt (Blaster)
Power Blasts (major)
Flight
Super-Strength (minor)
Medusa (Wildcard)
Fast (Boost)
Multiple Limbs
Savant
Super-Strength (minor)
Karnak (Brawler)
Scrapper
Iron Will
Melee Weapon
Gorgon (Brick)
Super-Strength (major)
Resistance
Tough (Boost)
Crystal (Wildcard)
Entangle
Force-Field
Power Blasts (minor)
Servitor / Sidekick
Lockjaw (Sidekick)
Teleport
I will let folks know how it goes!
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Uploaded latest revisions:
Latest Changes (11/30)
-- Added +2 Body / +2 Psyche to every Archetype, Summoned creature, Sidekick, and scenario character
-- Lowered KO check TN from 4 to 3
-- Added Reach option to Multiple limbs power
-- Tweaked Growth so the bonus to hit a character with active Growth is only for ranged attacks
-- Added official rules on playing out captures
Other changes I can't remember right now!
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Had another quick question:
Clever gives you/your leader +1D to initiative rolls, but Enhanced Senses gives you initiative re-rolls that don't stack with other models that also have Enhanced Senses. Do Clever initiative bonuses stack from two or more models that have Clever, or are they restricted also?
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Had another quick question:
Clever gives you/your leader +1D to initiative rolls, but Enhanced Senses gives you initiative re-rolls that don't stack with other models that also have Enhanced Senses. Do Clever initiative bonuses stack from two or more models that have Clever, or are they restricted also?
It does not stack either. I'll be sure to clarify this. Enhanced Senses and Clever will stack with each other though.
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I played two Fortress Assaults today and really liked the new tweaks. I will post an updated doc tomorrow with a few minor changes. Mainly clarifications of the Fortress Assault scenario, but also a few other odds and ends.
They were great games!
Effectively 5 units per side--my Inhumans had Lockjaw as a Sidekick, and Rico's villains had the extra henchmen (AIM Agents).
He fielded MODOK, Leader, Rhino, Whirlwind, Electro, AIM Agents.
I fielded Medusa, Gorgon, Karnak, Crystal, and Lockjaw.
We used the optional card based initiative, which I love.
Great games!
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Here is a thought for a bit more diversification for Character Builds (and also representing some Iconic comic book characters with a bit more detail):
This gives us something between a normal Archetype and a Powerhouse.
Super-Archetype:
Two Super-Archetypes count as 3 normal characters (or one normal character and one street level character).
The Super-Archetype is built as a normal character, but may have two (2) additional minor powers from their list. They have the option to trade two minor powers for any one minor power from any other archetypes list (trade is 2 for 1). You may also trade up to two (2) minor powers for up to two boosts.
Super-Archetype examples:
Green Lantern
Archetype: Blaster
Major Power: Power Blasts
Minor Power: Flight
Minor Power: Force Field
Minor Power: Iron Will
Boost: Clever
Spider-Man
Brawler
Major Power: Scrapper
Minor Power: Enhanced Senses
Minor Power: Super Agility
Minor Power: Super Strength (2 for 1 trade)
This should allow for greater distinction of those characters just a cut below the Powerhouse, but more abilities then the typical archetype.
Kim
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Here is a thought for a bit more diversification for Character Builds (and also representing some Iconic comic book characters with a bit more detail):
This gives us something between a normal Archetype and a Powerhouse.
Super-Archetype:
Two Super-Archetypes count as 3 normal characters (or one normal character and one street level character).
The Super-Archetype is built as a normal character, but may have two (2) additional minor powers from their list. They have the option to trade two minor powers for any one minor power from any other archetypes list (trade is 2 for 1). You may also trade up to two (2) minor powers for up to two boosts.
Super-Archetype examples:
Green Lantern
Archetype: Blaster
Major Power: Power Blasts
Minor Power: Flight
Minor Power: Force Field
Minor Power: Iron Will
Boost: Clever
Spider-Man
Brawler
Major Power: Scrapper
Minor Power: Enhanced Senses
Minor Power: Super Agility
Minor Power: Super Strength (2 for 1 trade)
This should allow for greater distinction of those characters just a cut below the Powerhouse, but more abilities then the typical archetype.
Kim
Is there some kind of option for Spiderman to be able to shoot his webs?
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Is there some kind of option for Spiderman to be able to shoot his webs?
That would be Entangle. You can make a pretty accurate Spider-Man with the Wildcard archetype:
Enhanced Senses
Entangle
Super-Agility
Super-Strength (minor)
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Here is a thought for a bit more diversification for Character Builds (and also representing some Iconic comic book characters with a bit more detail):
This gives us something between a normal Archetype and a Powerhouse.
Super-Archetype:
Two Super-Archetypes count as 3 normal characters (or one normal character and one street level character).
The Super-Archetype is built as a normal character, but may have two (2) additional minor powers from their list. They have the option to trade two minor powers for any one minor power from any other archetypes list (trade is 2 for 1). You may also trade up to two (2) minor powers for up to two boosts.
Super-Archetype examples:
Green Lantern
Archetype: Blaster
Major Power: Power Blasts
Minor Power: Flight
Minor Power: Force Field
Minor Power: Iron Will
Boost: Clever
Spider-Man
Brawler
Major Power: Scrapper
Minor Power: Enhanced Senses
Minor Power: Super Agility
Minor Power: Super Strength (2 for 1 trade)
This should allow for greater distinction of those characters just a cut below the Powerhouse, but more abilities then the typical archetype.
Kim
This looks interesting. I'd like to see some folks try it in play and see how it goes!
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I've given my spiderman Telekinesis reskinned as webbing powers.
So now he can shoot his webs to leap up onto the side of a building using levitate, move objects at a distance with his webs, yank mailboxes and motorbikes at villains using the super club even wrap them in constricting webs. Using levitate he can even use his webs to fling or swing an ally.
I decided against super senses because really his spider sense just warns him I'n time to use his uper agility unlike say DDs radar. So now we have:
Wild card:
Super strength
Super agility
entangle
Telekinesis
Not to mention the wild card special moves.
I don't see anything major unbalancing about chucking the odd extra minor power at a hero or villain. If I want spidey to have super senses perhaps I can take that if my opponent gets to take an extra minor power for one of his street level villains to make them a bit more of a boss or perhaps the green goblin wants to ad an extra gadget or type of pumpkin bomb.
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I've given my spiderman Telekinesis reskinned as webbing powers.
So now he can shoot his webs to leap up onto the side of a building using levitate, move objects at a distance with his webs, yank mailboxes and motorbikes at villains using the super club even wrap them in constricting webs. Using levitate he can even use his webs to fling or swing an ally.
I decided against super senses because really his spider sense just warns him I'n time to use his uper agility unlike say DDs radar. So now we have:
Wild card:
Super strength
Super agility
entangle
Telekinesis
Not to mention the wild card special moves.
I don't see anything major unbalancing about chucking the odd extra minor power at a hero or villain. If I want spidey to have super senses perhaps I can take that if my opponent gets to take an extra minor power for one of his street level villains to make them a bit more of a boss or perhaps the green goblin wants to ad an extra gadget or type of pumpkin bomb.
Brilliant use of the rules, Erny! I like your Spidey better than mine! ;)
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Wild card:
Super strength
Super agility
entangle
Telekinesis
Not to mention the wild card special moves.
Agreed, very clever :)
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or perhaps the green goblin wants to ad an extra gadget or type of pumpkin bomb.
Ok, I throw the gauntlet Erny! Let's see your Green Goblin :)
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Ok, I love the Great Lakes Avengers and Mr. Immortal. Love them.
I've been toying with a way to get Mr. Immortal into SMF. Here's a try:
Immortal (minor x 2)
You can't die! While this might sound great, it does have its drawbacks. You automatically fail all KO checks. If you fail a KO check you miss your next turn. On the following turn, you spring up with all of your Body and Psyche damage restored. If you're KO'ed again in the battle, you go down again, lose your next turn, and spring back up on the following turn with all damage restored. And so on. You never make post-battle injury checks if you happen to end a game KO'ed. You also never gain experience bumps with the rest of your team. This power counts as two minor power selections and can only be taken by Wildcard archetypes.
Any thoughts on this?
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I don't understand the need for the Super Archetype. Did I mis-read the powerhouse or wouldn't you get the same results combining blaster/wildcard or scrapper/wildcard?
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I don't understand the need for the Super Archetype. Did I mis-read the powerhouse or wouldn't you get the same results combining blaster/wildcard or scrapper/wildcard?
I think Kim's idea is to create an Archetype between Normal and Powerhouse. So it would go:
Street Level
Normal
Super
Powerhouse
I am not sure yet we need it, but it is an interesting idea. It's just hard to parse out it's resource "cost" in relation to the Normal archetypes.
Powerhouse = Normal x 2
Normal = Street Leve x 2
Anyway, it's good discussion fodder as we get closer to finished product.
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Ok, I throw the gauntlet Erny! Let's see your Green Goblin :)
Well nothing clever, he would be another wild card with minor super strength, armour or resistance, minor power blasts and flying. If I were to bump him up by one minor power he would be able to take both armour and resistance or perhaps some specialised smoke pumpkin bombs for concealment.
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Ok, I love the Great Lakes Avengers and Mr. Immortal. Love them.
I've been toying with a way to get Mr. Immortal into SMF. Here's a try:
Immortal (minor x 2)
You can't die! While this might sound great, it does have its drawbacks. You automatically fail all KO checks. If you fail a KO check you miss your next turn. On the following turn, you spring up with all of your Body and Psyche damage restored. If you're KO'ed again in the battle, you go down again, lose your next turn, and spring back up on the following turn with all damage restored. And so on. You never make post-battle injury checks if you happen to end a game KO'ed. You also never gain experience bumps with the rest of your team. This power counts as two minor power selections and can only be taken by Wildcard archetypes.
Any thoughts on this?
Looks fun though I'm not sure what character would have this pwoer other than Mr immortal or a carbon copy of him. It could sort of work for Wolverine I guess except he'd end up with a sort of glass jaw.
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Looks fun though I'm not sure what character would have this pwoer other than Mr immortal or a carbon copy of him. It could sort of work for Wolverine I guess except he'd end up with a sort of glass jaw.
Yep. It's pretty much for him. But I like him and I like it, so as long as no one finds anything game-busting in it, I think I will put it in! ;) :D
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The "Super Archetype" is effectively 1 and 1/2 the normal archetype giving us 4 levels of characters just as Scott listed. With 4 levels we can field a very diverse group and also better represent actual comic characters too.
So if you have a normal 4 character team it could be 1 Powerhouse (2 characters) 1 Super Archetype (1 1/2 characters) and 1 Street Archetype (1/2 character) for 3 total characters of greater diversity.
I can't see any comic hero/villain that we could not fit into one of these 4 type characters.
Lets give it a try
Kim
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Looks fun though I'm not sure what character would have this pwoer other than Mr immortal or a carbon copy of him. It could sort of work for Wolverine I guess except he'd end up with a sort of glass jaw.
I could see it looking something like this:
Super Archetype
You're somewhere between one of the nine standard archetypes and a Powerhouse. Choose one of the nine standard archetypes as your base. Then choose two additional minor powers from your list. You may also trade two minor power selections from your own list for one minor power from any other archetype list. You may also trade up to two minor powers for up to two Boosts. Customize your mastermind with whatever minor powers best capture the look and feel you’re after.
Move: variable
Body Damage Boxes: variable
Psyche Damage Boxes: variable
Major Powers
Archetype dependent
Minor Powers
Archetype dependent + 2 additional
Backgrounds (choose two)
[ ] Arcane [ ] Art [ ] Athletics [ ] Blue Collar [ ] Business [ ] Criminal [ ] Espionage [ ] Exploration [ ]High Society [ ] Medicine [ ] Military [ ] Monarch [ ] Performance [ ] Public Safety [ ] Science [ ] Social Science
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Awesome Scott!
A question about Backgrounds
Seems we need something for Aliens, Gods, Demi-Gods, etc.
Also, where should Media types fit in? Reporters, Broadcasters, Photo journalists, etc. (Clark Kent, Peter Parker).
Keep up the good work!
Kim
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Awesome Scott!
A question about Backgrounds
Seems we need something for Aliens, Gods, Demi-Gods, etc.
Also, where should Media types fit in? Reporters, Broadcasters, Photo journalists, etc. (Clark Kent, Peter Parker).
Keep up the good work!
Kim
Hmmm. I will work these two aspects into the background structure. These are notable omissions and need addressing. Thanks!
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Ok, uploaded new version of the rules!
Highlights:
-- Added Super archetype and made a new section called Alternate Power Level Archetypes. Packaged Street-level, Super, and Powerhouse there with some explanatory text and a suggestion to play the game with the nine standard archetype first and get a feel for the rules. Of course, players can do whatever they want, but I offer the advice anyway! :D
-- Added 2 new backgrounds: Alien / Dimensional and Journalist. These two close a couple big holes we had there.
-- Added the Immortal minor power.
Those are the major changes I can recall.
I am getting close to going to layout with this.
If you have not played and you still want to get some games in and give me some feedback, hurry up! ;)
Thanks!
P.S. Here's the link again for convenience!
https://app.box.com/s/4sx2qknhb2nd4ptn8o4wrvmqd3ldgoa6
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You've added this line
(choose which one at character creation)
to the Arcane background description instead of the alien/dimensional. ;)
Probably should also add the Alien/Dimensional background for henchmen... Journalist as well I guess but I can't imagine roving gangs of newsreaders taking on super villains. :D Also need to add the new backgrounds into the Backgrounds and Subplots table.
I noticed the new mastermind manouvers as well.
Escape Artist
Your resourcefulness pays off in an ability to get yourself out of trouble when it matters most. Use a special action to exit a melee combat without suffering any free attacks. Recharge 2
I'm guessing this can't work on it's own, you'll need to follow up with a move action to actually leave combat or does it move you an inch away or something?
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You've added this line to the Arcane background description instead of the alien/dimensional. ;)
Probably should also add the Alien/Dimensional background for henchmen... Journalist as well I guess but I can't imagine roving gangs of newsreaders taking on super villains. :D Also need to add the new backgrounds into the Backgrounds and Subplots table.
I noticed the new mastermind manouvers as well.
I'm guessing this can't work on it's own, you'll need to follow up with a move action to actually leave combat or does it move you an inch away or something?
Brilliant catches as always, Cait. Made these fixes. Except did not add Journalists to Henchmen--no Newsboy Legion! ;D
Thanks!
Joe D. is going to do some layout mocks of the Archetype pages this weekend, so once I've looked at them I will post them to my SMF tumblr page!
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I had a clarification about Grappling:
If you want to grapple, it says make an attack check and your foe makes a defense check. If the foe wants to escape, it says make the opposed check as normal. So is he still rolling his defense vs your attack, or his attack vs your defense, or his attack vs your attack?
Basically, what dice are rolled when trying to escape a grapple?
Thanks!
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I had a clarification about Grappling:
If you want to grapple, it says make an attack check and your foe makes a defense check. If the foe wants to escape, it says make the opposed check as normal. So is he still rolling his defense vs your attack, or his attack vs your defense, or his attack vs your attack?
Basically, what dice are rolled when trying to escape a grapple?
Thanks!
I clarified this. When you try to escape a grapple you're always a defender.
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I prepped, re-based, and touched up the Fantastic Four for a game this weekend. Here's what I am thinking, rules-wise:
Mr. Fantastic
Metamorph
Move 6"
Body 6
Psyche 6
Metamorph (major)
Savant
Backgrounds: Exploration, Science
Invisible Woman
Wildcard
Move 6"
Body 6
Psyche 6
Force-Field
Invisibiity
Stun
Telekinesis
Backgrounds: Exploration, High Society
Human Torch
Blaster
Move 6" / 20"
Body 6
Psyche 6
Power Blasts (major)
Damage Field
Flight
Backgrounds: Athletics, Exploration
The Thing
Brick
Move 5"
Body 8
Psyche 6
Super-Strength (major)
Armor
Resistance
Backgrounds: Exploration, Military
Pretty straightforward. There's a few ways to go with them. Anybody got other ideas?
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Very nice Fantastic Four. Who are they going against? Doctor Doom? Maybe post a play report? Im following this thread with great interest!
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Very nice Fantastic Four. Who are they going against? Doctor Doom? Maybe post a play report? Im following this thread with great interest!
Thanks! I am thinking:
Leader
Rhino
Electro
Whirlwind
I have these guys painted and ready right now.
In the future I am working on:
Frightful Four
Wizard
Sandman
Medusa
Trapster
U-Foes
Vector
Iropnclad
X-Ray
Vapor
Just waiting on the 'Clix to arrive!
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Thanks! I am thinking:
Leader
Rhino
Electro
Whirlwind
I have these guys painted and ready right now.
In the future I am working on:
Frightful Four
Wizard
Sandman
Medusa
Trapster
U-Foes
Vector
Iropnclad
X-Ray
Vapor
Just waiting on the 'Clix to arrive!
Wow. Im a big fan of those mostly little known villain teams. Id love to see your villain figures, but particularly the U Foes and Frightful Four. I didnt think there would be miniatures for them. have any pics?
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I prepped, re-based, and touched up the Fantastic Four for a game this weekend. Here's what I am thinking, rules-wise..... Anybody got other ideas?
Yep mine are very similar, my invisible woman had forcefield selected twice, not sure if that is still in the rules though.
Armour and resistance together makes The Thing pretty awesome.
I also have plans for the frightful four, the Wizard arrived only yesturday from the states, there were none in the UK to buy! Naturally to make the postage worth it I had to stock up on loads of extra clix.
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Yep mine are very similar, my invisible woman had forcefield selected twice, not sure if that is still in the rules though.
Force-Field is a little different now. Cleaner.
I also have plans for the frightful four, the Wizard arrived only yesturday from the states, there were none in the UK to buy! Naturally to make the postage worth it I had to stock up on loads of extra clix.
Hah-hah! Sounds like me! I am currently waiting on a bunch of cool 'Clix, myself!
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Updated latest version. No major changes or adds, just cleaned up some stuff I messed up in the last update.
https://app.box.com/s/4sx2qknhb2nd4ptn8o4wrvmqd3ldgoa6
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I feel like I should have brought this up before but is there any specific rules for "mounts"?
Growth, Massive and Shrinking all refer to using other models as mounts but there isn't actually a rule explanation beyond it takes a special action to mount or dismount a model. Can models mounted on other models be targeted, do they just move along with their mounts?
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I feel like I should have brought this up before but is there any specific rules for "mounts"?
Growth, Massive and Shrinking all refer to using other models as mounts but there isn't actually a rule explanation beyond it takes a special action to mount or dismount a model. Can models mounted on other models be targeted, do they just move along with their mounts?
I revised the rules for mounting to be part of your move and cost 1" to mount a model in base contact. No more special action to do so.
Also added this section to Ch. 3:
Mounts
Some powers allow characters to act as mounts for other characters. The character riding a mount moves along with his mount and may dismount as part of his move action. Any character mounted on another may be targeted with attacks as normal. If your mount gets knocked back, you go with him and must make a TN3 check to remain mounted.
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Hey Scott, here are some ideas for minor powers that I think fill some gaps. I'll leave it to you as to which Archetype they should go (though the last two are best for a blaster)
Sonic Blasts (minor)
You have either a high pitch super scream or some type of weapon that sends blast of mind numbing sound at your opponent. This 15” range, 4D attack does Psyche damage.
Gadgets (minor)
You have an array of gadgets and devices in your utility belt or bag of tricks that you can use to give you an advantage against your foes. Make a Chance Roll at the start of your turn. The number of goals rolled is the number of Re-Rolls you may use for any die rolls you make until the beginning of your next turn. (They may not accumulate.)
You also have a 10” range, 3D attack that does body damage.
Repulsers (minor)
Your ranged attacks can cause Knockback. You can choose to have your Body damaging attacks knock that foe back 2” per Body inflicted. You can also choose prior to attacking to make a non-lethal attack that will add +1D to your ranged attack that does no body damage, but will knock your foe back 4” instead for each body inflicted.
Quick Reaction (minor)
Any turn you are un-engaged and a foe charges, or moves to melee you, you may use your ranged attack on them just prior to being contacted. Alternately, you may instead of firing, negate your opponents +1D bonus for charging.
Keep up the good work!
Kim
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I had a request about the Archer major power. Could Obscurement be added to the list of "trick arrows"? This would be to represent smokescreen arrows...
(http://static8.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11111/111115760/3306356-3198646233-32999.jpg)
(http://s3.amazonaws.com/cgccomics-production/enews/2010/May/lg/spinner1.jpg)
I've been wondering about the Archery power itself. It seems like you could take the Archery list of powers, but instead of powerblast, you select any one of them for unlimited use. Then you select the three extra powers as normal, and voila, you have a Gadgeteer!
So you'd have - Entangle, Leaping, Power Blast (minor), Melee Weapon, Obscurement, Stun, Super-Agility. Pick one for unlimited use, choose three others that have recharge rolls, just like archery functions now.
For example, a Gadgeteer Catwoman - you could choose Melee Weapon for unlimited use (for her whip) then three other powers to represent her other gear (Stun for caltrops, Entangle for bolos, Super Agility for swinging on her whip).
I've just been thinking of this as a "house rule" thing, but I was wondering what anyone else thought...
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I had a request about the Archer major power. Could Obscurement be added to the list of "trick arrows"? This would be to represent smokescreen arrows...
I added Obscurement. That's a no-brainer--thanks!
I will think on the other changes to Archery. I worked up some text, but I am not sure about it. Still on the fence.
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Hey Scott, here are some ideas for minor powers that I think fill some gaps. I'll leave it to you as to which Archetype they should go (though the last two are best for a blaster)
Sonic Blasts (minor)
You have either a high pitch super scream or some type of weapon that sends blast of mind numbing sound at your opponent. This 15” range, 4D attack does Psyche damage.
Another Psyche damaging attack could be cool. I'll think a bit on this one.
Gadgets (minor)
You have an array of gadgets and devices in your utility belt or bag of tricks that you can use to give you an advantage against your foes. Make a Chance Roll at the start of your turn. The number of goals rolled is the number of Re-Rolls you may use for any die rolls you make until the beginning of your next turn. (They may not accumulate.)
You also have a 10” range, 3D attack that does body damage.
I like this one's simplicity and versatility! I think I will add it.
Repulsers (minor)
Your ranged attacks can cause Knockback. You can choose to have your Body damaging attacks knock that foe back 2” per Body inflicted. You can also choose prior to attacking to make a non-lethal attack that will add +1D to your ranged attack that does no body damage, but will knock your foe back 4” instead for each body inflicted.
This is now covered by the Blast Back advanced maneuver for Blasters, so I don't think we need it.
Quick Reaction (minor)
Any turn you are un-engaged and a foe charges, or moves to melee you, you may use your ranged attack on them just prior to being contacted. Alternately, you may instead of firing, negate your opponents +1D bonus for charging.
Another interesting one, though I am not sure we need it.
Keep up the good work!
Thanks, Kim!
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I will think on the other changes to Archery. I worked up some text, but I am not sure about it. Still on the fence.
Honestly, I think kimryoung has the right idea about gadgets as a 'broad' or generic power, similar to the Power Legion or Clobberin Time rulesets.
I think the idea of a Gadgeteer character that couldn't already be made by Archery or Wildcard might be too specific in some cases. I may keep the idea for a Gadgeteer archetype around for my house ruling, but I don't think it would gel within the book.
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This is now covered by the Blast Back advanced maneuver for Blasters, so I don't think we need it.
Sorry, I missed the addition of Blast Back, this is what I was thinking was needed. Perhaps you could put a revision level on the first page so we can keep up.
And speaking of the Archetype Maneuvers,
The Mastermind maneuver “I have a plan” doesn’t seem intuitive. Swapping characters that could be up to 40” apart is more like teleporting and could create some gamey situations.
It seems a Mastermind would be more likely to have his team working together in close concert with each other as he leads them against his foes. Here is an alternate idea:
I Have a Plan…
Your attention to detail and tactical acumen allow you to command the battlefield. As a free action make a Chance Roll. For each goal scored you may have any friendly characters that have not taken their turn yet this round take theirs next. If multiple characters can act, you may choose their order. Recharge 2+
Example: The Mastermind Dr. Simian starts his turn and makes a chance roll scoring two goals. After completing his turn, he has his bodyguard Bot take his turn next. Following Bots turn, their teammate Devils Knight now takes a turn. After these 3 teammates act, the opposing side may finally activate a model and take a turn!
Also, I think this additional maneuver is appropriate for the Brawler:
Flurry
Whether from martial art skills, or pure animal ferocity, you can attack multiple opponents. You can make a melee attack against all opposing characters you are in base contact with. Make a single attack roll and each opponent makes a separate defense roll from your attacks. Recharge 2+
Thanks Scott, and please let us know when you make updates.
Kim
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I Have a Plan…
Your attention to detail and tactical acumen allow you to command the battlefield. As a free action make a Chance Roll. For each goal scored you may have any friendly characters that have not taken their turn yet this round take theirs next. If multiple characters can act, you may choose their order. Recharge 2+
Example: The Mastermind Dr. Simian starts his turn and makes a chance roll scoring two goals. After completing his turn, he has his bodyguard Bot take his turn next. Following Bots turn, their teammate Devils Knight now takes a turn. After these 3 teammates act, the opposing side may finally activate a model and take a turn.
I really like this suggested change, very thematic.
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Thanks Scott, and please let us know when you make updates.
Kim
Kim, every time I update the doc I change the version number on the title page. Now we're on 1.30. When I make the latest changes it will be 1.31.
When I announce a new version on this thread I do my best to let folks know the highlights of major changes, but I do sometimes forget things as the doc is big enough now that sometimes I forget! ;D
I'll address your other ideas (which I love) as I work through things today. Working overtime tonight, but if we don't get any fires or big accidents, I should get some work done!
Thanks as always! :)
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Ok, new version uploaded! Version 1.31.
-- Updated Summoning text to include limits on certain powers and beefier stats
-- Changed "I Have A Plan" Mastermind special maneuver
-- Added the Gadgets minor power, and added it as an option to the Mastermind, Wildcard and Street Level archetypes
-- Added a Burrowing minor power
-- Added a Reflection minor power
-- Added an 8th power choice to each archetype
-- Fixed some errors and odd refs in the scenarios
-- Removed all of the brackets from the archetypes to facilitate layout
Thanks for looking!
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On first glance I would say Burrowing seems very weak... other than 1 extra dice on the charge it's vastly inferior to other movement powers. You're limited to your regular movement speed, you can't get around vertical terrain like say flying or teleport nor can any allies be carried. It also has a recharge unlike teleport which can be used continually provided you don't take passengers. Is that one extra dice only on charges worth it?
"I have a plan" seems really strong on paper as getting extra shots in before your opponent can do anything is potentially devastating from say a blaster or brick but I would have to try it out in practice.
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On first glance I would say Burrowing seems very weak... other than 1 extra dice on the charge it's vastly inferior to other movement powers. You're limited to your regular movement speed, you can't get around vertical terrain like say flying or teleport nor can any allies be carried. It also has a recharge unlike teleport which can be used continually provided you don't take passengers. Is that one extra dice only on charges worth it?
I think this makes it a bit nastier:
Burrowing (minor)
You can travel underground at your normal Move rate. It costs a free action to submerge and start burrowing, and you re-surface at the end of your movement. You can burrow through or under any intervening terrain or models as if they were clear ground. You can charge while burrowing and if you choose to surface in base contact with a foe, you gain +2D to your attack instead of the normal +1D. When you surface any enemies within 5” of you must make a TN3 check or be knocked down. If you burrow out of a melee, you still suffer free attacks as normal.
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Cait,
Scott's version of "I Have a Plan" is less powerful then my idea, but it really works as it only allows a single teammate to follow your turn. I think it will be fine and makes it a valuable reason for taking a Mastermind. Remember, there is no guarantee it even works and still needs a Re-charge.
As for Burrowing, don't think in terms of strength or weakness, but in terms of character theme for your models. I gave up 40K for that thought process and would rather build a Super Group with a theme I like and corresponding powers and abilities to fit their background instead of optimal statistical advantages. Scott could never have a any hope of doing that, and it's pretty clear that is not the bottom line of his concept.
Scott, I still like the idea of Sonic Attack. There needs to be more character types to have access to Psyche Attack powers/weapons in some form to make Psyche a meaningful attribute.
Really appreciate you listing to your future customer base at this stage. Your concept for SMF is a fresh breath.
Have you thought of just calling it "Super Force" or something similar? The term "Mission" in the title doesn't have a comic book ring to it. It's a minor point from my take so don't take any offense, I'm still on board.
Kim
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Thanks Kim and Cait!
I appreciate the great feedback. Sonic Blasts is now in the doc, and I agree having another Psyche based attack is a good thing.
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Should the Dispel power from SuperSystem be added? Would dispelling an archetype's major power be too strong?
Maybe Dispel would only work on minor powers, or give a +1 or 2 die bonus to the defender if the Dispel is used
against a major power.
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No on Dispel. I think we're good without it. :)
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Some musings on Reflection and Scrapper's Counterattack ability.
As it stands, Counterattack looks like this:
Counterattack: If your melee defense roll beats your attacker’s check, it could count as an attack on him! You can choose to activate this ability after seeing the results of a combat exchange. If you do activate it, your attacker suffers 2 Body damage. For example, if Wildman’s defense check exceeds Saber-Skull’s attack check by any amount, and Wildman invokes Counterattack, Saber-Skull suffers 2 Body damage! Armor reduces the damage from this effect, but Force-Field has no effect on it. Recharge 3+
And Reflection looks like this:
Reflection (minor)
You can sometimes turn Body-damaging attacks back on your attacker! Anytime you successfully defend against a Body-damaging attack you can choose to make a Chance roll. On a 2+, your attacker suffers 2 Body damage. Armor reduces the damage from this effect, but Force-Field has no effect on it.
I am thinking I want to adjust Counterattack to simply be a Melee-only version of Reflection:
Counterattack: You possess the Reflection minor power limited to melee attacks.
The benefit to this is that player's need to only know one rule. It also eliminates the Recharge check--one less thing to track. The Scrapper would lose his ability to pick exactly when to employ his Counterattack for more chances to use it in game. He'll still need to avoid the initial attack, then make the 2+ Chance roll to activate the 2 Damage on his attacker. Remember, it's about a 47% chance to score a 2+ on 2D.
Any thoughts on this?
Thanks!
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I like the idea of Counterattack giving you Reflection, as they are already very similar. This would keep it simpler.
I had a question about Reflection though - does it work against Damage Field?
Basically, if a foe has damage field, and hits you in melee, they then roll for Damage Field. If they miss that roll, do you then also get to roll Reflection/Counterattack?
Speaking of Damage Field, how does it interact with Force-field? If you roll for force-field against an attack and lose, and the foe has a damage field, do you get to roll force-field again against the separate damage field roll?
Apologies for any confusion. Thanks!
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I like the idea of Counterattack giving you Reflection, as they are already very similar. This would keep it simpler.
I had a question about Reflection though - does it work against Damage Field?
Basically, if a foe has damage field, and hits you in melee, they then roll for Damage Field. If they miss that roll, do you then also get to roll Reflection/Counterattack?
Speaking of Damage Field, how does it interact with Force-field? If you roll for force-field against an attack and lose, and the foe has a damage field, do you get to roll force-field again against the separate damage field roll?
Apologies for any confusion. Thanks!
Good questions! I have clarified these.
Here's the revised text:
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Damage Field (minor)
Spend a free action to activate or deactivate this power. You surround yourself with a deadly field (crackling energy, quills, acid, etc.). Anyone touching you (successful attacks or knockbacks) suffers a 4D Body damage attack. This damage does not cause knockback, and is unaffected by the Force-Field power. Resolve this after resolving any successful attack action. Anytime you handle a scenario objective while your power is active make a 2+ Chance roll; if you fail the objective is harmed by your power and does not count toward victory.
Push It: Anytime you activate your damage field you can declare that you’re pushing its power--the field increases to 6D until the beginning of your next turn, then shuts down. Recharge 2+
Example: Echidna has a body with super-hard quills. He gets punched by the Siberian. First Echidna’s player notes the Body damage done by Siberian’s attack, then rolls his 4D Damage Field against the burly Russian! Next turn he decides to Push It. His field damage increases to 6D, but it will shut down at the beginning of the following turn, and he’ll have to make a 2+ recharge check to restart it.
Example: Echidna punches Siberian back! He hits and first resolves the melee damage, then makes the 4D check for his Damage Field, and Siberian resists as normal.
Example: Bot hammers Echidna’s teammate, Wildman. He delivers 10” of knockback to the unlucky mutate as well, and his path takes him directly into Echidna! Now Wildman must also defend against his teammate’s 4D Damage Field.
==============================
My reasoning behind this is that you resolve a Damage Field attacker's physical attack first (punch, kick, etc.). That's where your Force-Field either protects you or not. Once you resolve the attacker's punch or kick, his Damage Field kicks in, and its already bypassed the FF.
Now, Reflection:
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Reflection (minor)
You can sometimes turn Body-damaging attacks back on your attacker! Anytime you successfully defend against a Body-damaging attack you can choose to make a Chance roll. On a 2+, your attacker suffers 2 Body damage. Armor reduces the damage from this effect, but Force-Field has no effect on it. Reflection has no effect on failed Damage Field attack checks.
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My thinking here is that in the comics, the Damage Field guy is usually immune to his own destructive field. And it just makes things simpler. ;)
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Scott's version of "I Have a Plan" is less powerful then my idea, but it really works as it only allows a single teammate to follow your turn. I think it will be fine and makes it a valuable reason for taking a Mastermind. Remember, there is no guarantee it even works and still needs a Re-charge.
It is a lot more balanced than the original suggestion and it's probably OK with the chance roll. I was pretty skeptical about how balanced sorcery was originally but in using it, it turned out to be not so reliable with the recharges which balanced it a bit.
As for Burrowing, don't think in terms of strength or weakness, but in terms of character theme for your models. I gave up 40K for that thought process and would rather build a Super Group with a theme I like and corresponding powers and abilities to fit their background instead of optimal statistical advantages. Scott could never have a any hope of doing that, and it's pretty clear that is not the bottom line of his concept.
Oh I agree that trying to balance a game like this isn't going to be possible especially given the wide variety of powers and the fact that everything costs the same amount of "points" essentially. In the case of burrowing however, I feel it's pretty directly comparable to other movement based powers and comes out fairly inferior. The knockdown effect could give it a bit more utility, I'll need to test it out.
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Not so sure the latest version of Burrowing is quite the feel of comics. As it is now it’s more a power attack with the +2 D for charging. Attached to the Brick archetype that’s 8D attacks, and if you combine it with their Haymaker maneuver 8d with +2 re-rolls is going to inflict a lot of hits! This was what prompted adding more Body to the character to prevent first hit KO’s.
To me, Burrowing does give ability to go underground to skirt obstacles but not deadly melee advantage. I don’t even see it as a Brick power. When I think of Burrowing I think, Mole Man or even the Under-Miner, and especially the Mole People from the old Sci-fi movie, but not a heavy weight brick.
Burrowing should give the ability to skirt terrain, but I think it should allow the character, his team or minions the ability to arrive on the battlefield from below ground by surprise at any point and possibly an escape via burrowing.
Perhaps instead of attack benefits, you could have defensive bonus (there are already plenty of attack powers), quick escape, instant cover, etc. That and moving your team onto and of the field from a surprise location (say a 5” hole that can be placed anywhere for the team to arrive on the board and escape through.)
As it is right now, you are only going to get a Mole-Hulk.
Kim
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To me, Burrowing does give ability to go underground to skirt obstacles but not deadly melee advantage. I don’t even see it as a Brick power. When I think of Burrowing I think, Mole Man or even the Under-Miner, and especially the Mole People from the old Sci-fi movie, but not a heavy weight brick.
Burrowing should give the ability to skirt terrain, but I think it should allow the character, his team or minions the ability to arrive on the battlefield from below ground by surprise at any point and possibly an escape via burrowing.
Perhaps instead of attack benefits, you could have defensive bonus (there are already plenty of attack powers), quick escape, instant cover, etc. That and moving your team onto and of the field from a surprise location (say a 5” hole that can be placed anywhere for the team to arrive on the board and escape through.)
I actually had similar thoughts re: making burrowing more defensive than offensive. The infiltrated deployment didn't occur to me but could be interesting. I was thinking of maybe it should be possible to remain burrowed, perhaps making the character un-targettable or just giving some kind of defensive/hiding bonus. There would have to be restrictions ofc such as not being able to burrow in the same turn you surface and perhaps a restriction on carrying objectives.
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I will make some adjustments to burrowing today. 😀
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Some alternate Burrowing text:
Burrowing (minor)
You can travel underground at your normal Move rate. It costs only a free action to submerge and start burrowing, or stop burrowing and re-surface, but once you’ve surfaced, you cannot burrow again until next turn. You can burrow through or under any intervening terrain as if it were normal ground. If you choose to surface in base contact with a foe you count as charging if you wish to attack him in melee. While burrowing you remain close enough to the surface to be attacked, but you’re more difficult to hit. While burrowing you gain +2 Re-rolls to your defense check because you're submerged. Mark burrowing characters with a counter to let everyone know they're special status.
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Are you going to be able to create a trap with burrowing? As in opening a pit under a model and sucking it in. A little off the subject but here is a drawing I did for my final in design class. Its from a Supersystem game I played last week.
(https://c8.staticflickr.com/1/295/31559915751_a93b50af1b_n.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/Q5QPqt)Super Battle (https://flic.kr/p/Q5QPqt) by Pigmented Miniatures (https://www.flickr.com/photos/67982594@N05/), on Flickr
http://leadadventureforum.com/gallery/26/10222_14_12_16_9_10_29.JPG
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Are you going to be able to create a trap with burrowing? As in opening a pit under a model and sucking it in. A little off the subject but here is a drawing I did for my final in design class. Its from a Supersystem game I played last week.
(http://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?action-gallery;sa=view;id=26521)
http://leadadventureforum.com/gallery/26/10222_14_12_16_9_10_29.JPG
Some more revised Burrowing text:
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Burrowing (minor)
You can travel underground at your normal Move rate. It costs only a free action to submerge and start burrowing, or stop burrowing and re-surface, but once you’ve surfaced, you cannot burrow again until next turn. You can burrow through or under any intervening terrain as if it were normal ground. You cannot resurface within a solid object, so plan your movement accordingly. If you choose to surface in base contact with a foe you count as charging if you wish to attack him in melee. Instead of attacking when you surface, you can create fissures and tremors that could unbalance your foes. When you surface use your special action to create these tremors; any enemies within 5” of you must make a TN3 check or be knocked down. While burrowing you remain close enough to the surface to be attacked, but you’re more difficult to hit. While burrowing you gain +2 Re-rolls to your defense checks against Body-damaging attacks because you're submerged. Mark burrowing characters with a counter to let everyone know they're special status.
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Uploaded latest revisions:
-- version 1.32
-- revised Burrowing text
-- added examples to Reflection
-- edited text for clarity and readbility
https://app.box.com/s/4sx2qknhb2nd4ptn8o4wrvmqd3ldgoa6
Thanks for looking!
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Hopefully gonna get a play test in today. I plan to use the Frightful Four I recently touched up and re-based.
The Wingless Wizard
Super (Mastermind)
Move: 6" / 20"
Body: 6 Psyche: 7
Major Power
Enhance
Minor Powers
Flight
Power Blasts
Telekinesis
Backgrounds
Criminal, Science
Medusa
Wildcard
Move: 10"
Body: 6 Psyche: 6
Minor Powers
Fast (Boost)
Multiple Limbs
Savant
Super-Strength
Backgrounds
Exploration, Social Science
Sandman
Metamorph
Move: 6"
Body: 6 Psyche: 6
Major Power
Metamorph
Minor Power
Super-Strength
Backgrounds
Criminal, Blue Collar
The Trapster
Street-Level
Move: 6"
Body: 5 Psyche: 5
Minor Powers
Entangle
Stun
Backgrounds
Criminal, Science
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If you play, I would sure like to see pics of your finished Frightful Four and a battle report. Thanks.
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There's quite a few abilities that can be toggled on or off and a few now that generate bonuses that can be "spent" so I decided to put together some tokens. I'm using free icons from game-icons.net, fairly simply stuff with black on white to save ink when they're printed. Do these look OK?
(http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k504/KHoneyman/OneInchTokensTest.png)
I have Entangle, Knocked Down, Burrowing and Hidden already done as well. Need to come up with Obscurement, Rage, Stun and a token representing a +1 re-roll bonus. Might need multiple types of re-roll token since Enhance, Gadgets and Parasite I guess all have their own limits on how many you can have etc. Might be worth defining if those abilities re-rolls stack as well?
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Those are awesome!
Can you PM me regarding them? I have a few questions.
Thanks!
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I could totally knock some up an acrylic?
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I have Entangle, Knocked Down, Burrowing and Hidden already done as well. Need to come up with Obscurement, Rage, Stun and a token representing a +1 re-roll bonus. Might need multiple types of re-roll token since Enhance, Gadgets and Parasite I guess all have their own limits on how many you can have etc. Might be worth defining if those abilities re-rolls stack as well?
From chapter one:
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Re-rolls from different sources may be added together, but a model may never benefit from more than six re-rolls on any dice pool throw.
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So yes, they stack up to 6.
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From chapter one:
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Re-rolls from different sources may be added together, but a model may never benefit from more than six re-rolls on any dice pool throw.
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So yes, they stack up to 6.
Yup but no target can have more than +2 re-rolls from an enhance power, gadgets doesn't specify limits and parasite doesn't allow more than +3 re-rolls on any single roll so it could be important to know where the re-rolls came from.
Incidentally I'm assuming gadgets' re-rolls work like the others in that it's a limited pool of re-rolls you can spend. The wording is ambiguous and sounds like if you roll 2 goals you get 2 re-rolls on every dice roll that turn.
Make a Chance Roll at the start of your turn. The number of goals rolled is the number of Re-rolls you may use for any die rolls you make until the beginning of your next turn. These Re-rolls do not accumulate from round to round.
Also do re-rolls granted by parasite need to be used on a single roll or can they accumulate and be spent like enhance re-rolls?
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Yup but no target can have more than +2 re-rolls from an enhance power, gadgets doesn't specify limits and parasite doesn't allow more than +3 re-rolls on any single roll so it could be important to know where the re-rolls came from.
Incidentally I'm assuming gadgets' re-rolls work like the others in that it's a limited pool of re-rolls you can spend. The wording is ambiguous and sounds like if you roll 2 goals you get 2 re-rolls on every dice roll that turn.
Also do re-rolls granted by parasite need to be used on a single roll or can they accumulate and be spent like enhance re-rolls?
You asked some excellent questions that made me go back and want to re-think and clarify Re-rolls and powers that grant them.
So here's some re-worked text:
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Re-Rolls
A character’s powers, special maneuvers, or backgrounds often allow his player to re-roll failed dice in specific situations. Whenever re-rolls come into play, a player can pick up a die that rolled less than 4 and roll it again, or if he's feeling lucky, he can pick up a die that rolled 4 or 5 and try to throw a 6 with it! The same die may never be re-rolled more than once, even if a throw has "extra" re-rolls left over.
For an easy reminder, we note the number of Re-rolls allowed on a throw in brackets next to the relevant trait or dice pool. For example, if Sky’s brawler gets 2 Re-rolls on his 5D melee attack, he would note them like this: 5D[2]. You can use a trait’s Re-rolls on each throw of the relevant dice pool.
Temporary Re-rolls
Add Temporary Re-rolls from powers and abilities into a Re-roll Pool. Your Re-roll pool may never exceed six Re-rolls. Spend these temporary Re-rolls on dice throws just like permanent Re-rolls granted by powers. You can also add them to dice throws with permanent Re-rolls. A model may never benefit from more than four re-rolls on any dice pool throw.
Example: Sky’s brawler possesses unbreakable claws granting him two re-rolls in his 5D melee attack pool, so he notes this on his roster as 5D[2]. If Sky rolls this pool and gets 3, 3, 4, 5, and 5, he can pick up two failed dice and roll them again. If on a later throw he gets a 1, 4, 5, 5, and 6, he could pick up the 1 and throw it again, but if it fails he cannot re-roll it a second time, because the same die may never be re-rolled more than once.
Example: If Sky’s mutant also received +2 Re-rolls from his ally’s Enhance power, he’d note a “2” in his Re-roll Pool box. If he wanted to use these temporary Re-rolls on an attack roll, he’d roll 5D[4], and have the ability to re-roll up to four dice on his throw. Once used, those temporary Re-rolls would be expended.
Enhance (major)
You can increase the capabilities of characters within 10” of you. Use a special action and make a 6D check. Every two goals you score grant your target +1 Re-roll to his Re-roll pool. You can split Re-rolls between multiple targets within 10” of you.
Enhance (minor)
You can increase the capabilities of characters within 5” of you. Use a special action and make a 5D check. Every two goals you score grant your target +1 Re-roll on a check of his choice. You can split Re-rolls between multiple targets within 5” of you.
Example: Prof Weird tries to Enhance Ox and Simian. He rolls 5D and scores 4 goals! This gives him +2 Re-rolls to impart, and he gives one to Ox and one to Simian.
Gadgets (minor)
You have an array of gadgets and devices in your utility belt or bag of tricks that you can use to give you an advantage against your foes. Make a Chance Roll at the start of your turn. The number of goals rolled is the number of Re-rolls added to your Re-roll pool.
You also have a 3D, 10” Body-damage ranged attack.
Parasite (minor)
You drain the vital energies of your foes and use them to power and heal yourself! Make a 5D Psyche based attack against a foe in melee contact with you. If you remove at least 1 Psyche damage box, you may heal one of your own missing Body or Psyche damage boxes, or add +1 to your Re-roll pool.
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What this does is codify, streamline, and standardize Re-rolls, temporary Re-rolls, and the powers that grant them.
I also cut the max re-rolls on one throw down from 6 to 4. The largest dice pools we're going to have are around 8, and I like the idea of max re-rolls on one throw at half that.
These changes mean you can accumulate Re-rolls from different sources and use them as you see fit without having to worry about tracking where they came from or what their limits are.
It can result in a situation where your Re-rolls hit the ceiling at six and you can't gain further bennies from say, an Enhance, but I am willing to trade that odd instance for this streamlining of play and consistency.
This will also necessitate a small square on the character sheet for tracking temporary re-rolls.
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Should a character with Shrinking activated suffer more knockback?
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Should a character with Shrinking activated suffer more knockback?
In SuperSystem, yes. But not in SMF. We're not going to sweat those details. That's not to say we don't pick our spots. I think that one we can let go.
Changed my mind! I decided this was a cool enough idea/effect that I added it in. ;D
Thanks!
P.S. Have yo gotten to play any games yet? Just wondering! :)
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So done some more work on tokens and added a couple of scenario specific ones. I didn't like the first entangle so I made a variant I might use instead, I still don't like the Hidden token though... Need to tidy things up with lining things up a bit better then making multiples of each token per sheet where appropriate. Is there anything obvious I've missed?
(http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k504/KHoneyman/OneInchTokensTest02.png~original)
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You could add more +1 Re-Roll tokens as players will need multiples of these.
Also +4" Reach, +10" Reach, +6" Move (from Metamorph).
Also, can you format it for A5?
Thanks!
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Scott,
When you take Archery as your major power for the Blaster Archetype do you still get to choose two minor powers to go with the powers you get from taking Archery?
It would seem to me it should be instead of, since none of the Blaster minor powers reflect a Green Arrow or a Hawkeye.
That needs to be made clear
Also you should add Sonic Blast to the list of quiver of trick arrows. Green Arrow often used this in the JLA!
Kim
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Scott,
When you take Archery as your major power for the Blaster Archetype do you still get to choose two minor powers to go with the powers you get from taking Archery?
It would seem to me it should be instead of, since none of the Blaster minor powers reflect a Green Arrow or a Hawkeye.
That needs to be made clear
Also you should add Sonic Blast to the list of quiver of trick arrows. Green Arrow often used this in the JLA!
Kim
Added Sonic Blast to the Archery package. Good call.
Yes, Archery does not take away from your minor power picks. Nothing really suggests it would. When I make an Archer I just choose Boosts.
I did add Fortune because Blaster lacked its 8th power choice. So you could take a combo of Iron Will, Fortune, and any of the three boosts.
Also Construct and Amphibious--but these are highly unlikely. But they are options. ;D
Thanks, Kim!
P.S. Also, one of my fav obscure Marvel chatacters is John Byrne's Oxbow. Super-Strength and archery!
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You could add more +1 Re-Roll tokens as players will need multiples of these.
...then making multiples of each token per sheet where appropriate.
;)
Also +4" Reach, +10" Reach, +6" Move (from Metamorph).
Yeah I thought about tokens for each of the forms but decided they were too abstract and the tokens would need to convey too much info. I guess the repeated buffs that aren't powers are one way to do it but it doesn't necessarily help you remember the form (if you aren't using appropriately different minis). Maybe a quick reference including the metamorph forms and tokens for Form One, Form Two etc...?
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Knockback/Knockdown thoughts:
The knockback distance for Super-major combined with “Way Outta Here” seems a bit much. Say a modest 3 damage times 4 for Super-major, tripled for Outta Here is 36” which is pretty much off board. Consider reducing either Super-major to 3” per damage, or only double for Way Outta Here, limiting a 3 damage to 24 or 27” (Still a lot, but perhaps still on the table.)
Should Knockback Always be optional? Perhaps if you roll 2 or more Sixes the opponent is knocked back whether you wanted to or not!
Rules state characters knocked through objects suffer no additional damage. But if Batman knocks Joker into a brick wall, he’s not going through it, so what additional damage is done? Need to address this.
Superman might knock Solomon Grundy through a brick wall and not cause additional damage, but if he knocks Toyman into a wall it’s going to stop him and hurt!
The penalty for Knockdown seems pretty minimal. Only 2” reduction and the character can come right back with a Charge and get the +1D bonus. Consider a character who is knocked down CANNOT Charge the turn they get up, so therefore cannot get the charge bonus. They can still move normally back into melee if they have enough move after losing 2” of movement.
This gives a reason to inflict Knockback so a character can’t just charge back and get +1D even after being knocked down.
Also, shouldn’t Super Agility reduce the chance of being knocked down? Or if there is a penalty, ignore it?
Thanks for all the effort Scott!
Kim
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Knockback/Knockdown thoughts:
The knockback distance for Super-major combined with “Way Outta Here” seems a bit much. Say a modest 3 damage times 4 for Super-major, tripled for Outta Here is 36” which is pretty much off board. Consider reducing either Super-major to 3” per damage, or only double for Way Outta Here, limiting a 3 damage to 24 or 27” (Still a lot, but perhaps still on the table.)
Should Knockback Always be optional? Perhaps if you roll 2 or more Sixes the opponent is knocked back whether you wanted to or not!
Rules state characters knocked through objects suffer no additional damage. But if Batman knocks Joker into a brick wall, he’s not going through it, so what additional damage is done? Need to address this.
Superman might knock Solomon Grundy through a brick wall and not cause additional damage, but if he knocks Toyman into a wall it’s going to stop him and hurt!
The penalty for Knockdown seems pretty minimal. Only 2” reduction and the character can come right back with a Charge and get the +1D bonus. Consider a character who is knocked down CANNOT Charge the turn they get up, so therefore cannot get the charge bonus. They can still move normally back into melee if they have enough move after losing 2” of movement.
This gives a reason to inflict Knockback so a character can’t just charge back and get +1D even after being knocked down.
Also, shouldn’t Super Agility reduce the chance of being knocked down? Or if there is a penalty, ignore it?
Hope you don't mind, but my personal thoughts on this:
-I like Way Outta Here as is. It's only available to Bricks anyways and they are usually portrayed as being able to knock people across cities or even into orbit!
-I would prefer Knockback to remain optional. The simpler/faster combat runs, the better.
-Knocking characters through objects can be thought of as abstracted. Yes, Batman punched Joker through a wall, but maybe the wall was already compromised and weak enough to let a body pass through as the wall crumbles. Or perhaps there was a window there that's just not modeled on the terrain. There's a definite case for houseruling more detail if you wanted to have terrain stopping characters and doing more damage, but I'm not sure about in the rule book.
-I need to think more about the penalty for Knockdown. I feel like it works as is, because other models can charge in after a knockdown and potentially make quick work of the fallen model. For a more severe penalty, I agree you shouldn't get the +1D to attacking when charging after getting up, but I'm not sure getting knocked down should be too limiting. It's more likely to happen than not...
-I feel super-agility is pretty powerful already. You could explain away a Super-Agile character getting knocked down as them being hit in a vulnerable spot or hurt enough that they need a moment to catch their breath/regain their senses.
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Knockback/Knockdown thoughts:
The knockback distance for Super-major combined with “Way Outta Here” seems a bit much. Say a modest 3 damage times 4 for Super-major, tripled for Outta Here is 36” which is pretty much off board. Consider reducing either Super-major to 3” per damage, or only double for Way Outta Here, limiting a 3 damage to 24 or 27” (Still a lot, but perhaps still on the table.)
I think it's reasonable to reduce it to double. I've thought about this a few times and held off, but I am playing some games today, and I'll reduce it to double and see how it goes.
Should Knockback Always be optional? Perhaps if you roll 2 or more Sixes the opponent is knocked back whether you wanted to or not!
Yes. I like it as optional. I like the fact you tactically choose to pound someone into the ground or knock him away. This is a departure from SuperSystem that I prefer.
Rules state characters knocked through objects suffer no additional damage. But if Batman knocks Joker into a brick wall, he’s not going through it, so what additional damage is done? Need to address this.
I disagree. This is one of the things from SuperSystem that I kept. It was never a problem for me or many players in SS and it won't be here. That said, it's super easy to house rule this.
The penalty for Knockdown seems pretty minimal. Only 2” reduction and the character can come right back with a Charge and get the +1D bonus. Consider a character who is knocked down CANNOT Charge the turn they get up, so therefore cannot get the charge bonus. They can still move normally back into melee if they have enough move after losing 2” of movement.
This is another departure from SS that I intentionally put in. I like the dynamism knockback can create, but I also like having characters to bounce back up and get back in the game.
Also, shouldn’t Super Agility reduce the chance of being knocked down? Or if there is a penalty, ignore it?
Funny you mention this. I just made this addition to Super-Agility last night.
Thanks for all the effort Scott!
You're welcome, Kim, and I do appreciate all of your feedback! You're part of making this a better game!
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Yeah I thought about tokens for each of the forms but decided they were too abstract and the tokens would need to convey too much info. I guess the repeated buffs that aren't powers are one way to do it but it doesn't necessarily help you remember the form (if you aren't using appropriately different minis). Maybe a quick reference including the metamorph forms and tokens for Form One, Form Two etc...?
I just numbered the forms 1 through 6 if that helps!
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Knockback/Knockdown thoughts:
The penalty for Knockdown seems pretty minimal. Only 2” reduction and the character can come right back with a Charge and get the +1D bonus. Consider a character who is knocked down CANNOT Charge the turn they get up, so therefore cannot get the charge bonus. They can still move normally back into melee if they have enough move after losing 2” of movement.
One thing I did do on this was take away the +1D if you charge after getting up from being knocked down. Just an FYI!
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One thing I did do on this was take away the +1D if you charge after getting up from being knocked down. Just an FYI!
That is a good fix, makes it worth knocking them back now!
Sounds good on everything else too.
Thanks
Kim
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Ok! Version 1.33 is now up on Box"
https://app.box.com/s/4sx2qknhb2nd4ptn8o4wrvmqd3ldgoa6
Highlights include:
-- Changes and clarifications to Re-rolls gained from powers
-- Tweak to effects of Knockback
-- Added missing 8th minor power to Blaster archetype
A few other little things I cannot remember! ;D
Thanks for checking it out!
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Added missing 8th minor power to Blaster archetype
There is actually 9 now.
Kim
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There is actually 9 now.
Kim
Whoops. I fixed this!
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There's an old thread somewhere with some custom cards I made for our Super System games. That got shelved, but hopefully these quick rules will help get some figures on the table for another try! :)
EDIT: Found them, interesting to see how much less there is to record now!
Plain template:
(http://leadadventureforum.com/gallery/13/1940_30_05_13_6_45_01.jpg)
And one of my henchmen:
(http://leadadventureforum.com/gallery/12/1940_07_05_13_12_43_47.jpg)
I will have to redo these for SMF :)
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P.S. Have yo gotten to play any games yet? Just wondering! :)
Not yet. Just been reading, making characters and rolling some dice to test things out. The knockback question came from
a mapless combat test after I found the "Shrinking" power.
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Not yet. Just been reading, making characters and rolling some dice to test things out. The knockback question came from
a mapless combat test after I found the "Shrinking" power.
Cool! Played two more games myself today. Feeling really good about the rules and the development.
We're getting closer to going to layout.
Very excited!
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Super Club question
The math on the Super Club bonus seems off. +2 re-rolls for a small object is better than +1D for a medium object and nearly as good as a large at +2D.
From your own chart on dice averages, a charging Brick with super strength and small club gets 7D +2 re-rolls for a 5.95 average goals. If they use a medium club it’s 8D for 5.33 average goals, and for a large club its 9D for 5.98 average goals.
This doesn’t fit the comics. How about just make it +1D for small, +2D for medium and +3D for large. This will put things in perspective.
Also, objects like street signs, lamp poles, telephone poles, parking lot lights, communication towers, etc. should allow reach. For simplicity you could allow the reach to be the model size.
Example: Ox rips up a telephone pole (a medium object, 8” tall model). He can make a melee attack with 8” reach and +2 to his attack dice.
Kim
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Super Club question
The math on the Super Club bonus seems off. +2 re-rolls for a small object is better than +1D for a medium object and nearly as good as a large at +2D.
From your own chart on dice averages, a charging Brick with super strength and small club gets 7D +2 re-rolls for a 5.95 average goals. If they use a medium club it’s 8D for 5.33 average goals, and for a large club its 9D for 5.98 average goals.
This doesn’t fit the comics. How about just make it +1D for small, +2D for medium and +3D for large. This will put things in perspective.
Also, objects like street signs, lamp poles, telephone poles, parking lot lights, communication towers, etc. should allow reach. For simplicity you could allow the reach to be the model size.
Example: Ox rips up a telephone pole (a medium object, 8” tall model). He can make a melee attack with 8” reach and +2 to his attack dice.
Kim
I made adjustments to the Super-Clubs. Your comments made me re-look at the whole thing for SMF. Adding dice is really powerful in this system with its much smaller dice pools. Especially for the Brick, who has that killer base 6D pool.
So I re-worked the bennies as follows:
-- Small (mailbox, motorcycle) +1 Re-roll, +2” Reach
-- Medium (dumpster, sedan) +2 Re-rolls, +3” Reach
-- Large (dump truck, train car) +3 Re-rolls, +4” Reach
Measuring a model's height to calc reach is too fiddly for me. But I do like your idea that they should convey a bit of reach. So this addresses that. Is it simulationist that a large object only conveys +1" more than a medium? No. But SMF is not about that. So I think this will work better.
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Pic of my Marvel U-Foes:
https://www.tumblr.com/blog/supermissionforce
I'll stat them up later today!
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Pic of my Marvel U-Foes:
https://www.tumblr.com/blog/supermissionforce
I'll stat them up later today!
Here's a link from the outside :)
https://supermissionforce.tumblr.com/
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I made adjustments to the Super-Clubs. Your comments made me re-look at the whole thing for SMF. Adding dice is really powerful in this system with its much smaller dice pools. Especially for the Brick, who has that killer base 6D pool.
So I re-worked the bennies as follows:
-- Small (mailbox, motorcycle) +1 Re-roll, +2” Reach
-- Medium (dumpster, sedan) +2 Re-rolls, +3” Reach
-- Large (dump truck, train car) +3 Re-rolls, +4” Reach
Measuring a model's height to calc reach is too fiddly for me. But I do like your idea that they should convey a bit of reach. So this addresses that. Is it simulationist that a large object only conveys +1" more than a medium? No. But SMF is not about that. So I think this will work better.
This will work fine. Good Job!
Kim
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I struggled to come up with something for Metamorph, ended up just going for DNA strand because you know... that whole changing DNA connection there. ;D
Fitting everything onto A5 was rough so I ended up going with 2 sheets and presumably enough tokens to do 2 teams... Kinda guessed somewhat with what would be good numbers for each, the assumption being 2 characters with each power being the maximum (except flying as it's probably more common).
(http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k504/KHoneyman/Miniatures/Supers/SuperSystemTokens01_Preview.png~original)(http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k504/KHoneyman/Miniatures/Supers/SuperSystemTokens02_Preview.png~original)
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These are brilliant! Can you e-mail me hi-res 300 DPI versions (.tif is best) to my gmail account?
srpyle at gmail.com
Thanks!
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The U-Foes
Vector (Super, Blaster)
Major Power
Power Blasts
Minor Powers
Flight
Force-Field
Telekinesis
Backgrounds
Business, Science
Ironclad (Brick)
Major Power
Super-Strength
Minor Powers
Density Increase
Tough (Boost)
Backgrounds
Exploration, Science
Vapor (Street Level)
Minor Powers
Density Decrease
Gas Attack (re-skinned Sonic Blast)
Backgrounds
Exploration, Science
X-Ray (Wildcard)
Minor Powers
Density Decrease
Flight
Invisibility
Power Blasts
Backgrounds
Exploration, Science
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Latest changes (1.34):
-- Adjusted Super-Clubs
-- Changed major Enhance to a free action
-- Added new minor power options for Archery based blasters
-- Edited and clarified aspects of the scenarios
https://app.box.com/s/4sx2qknhb2nd4ptn8o4wrvmqd3ldgoa6
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Thoughts on Metamorph Archetype
The Metamorph Major Power does a good job representing those with significant Shape Shifting ability that can assume alternate forms such as Beast Boy, Metamorpho, Chameleon Boy and the Metal Men. However characters that are primarily stretch types such as Mr. Fantastic, Elongated Man or Madam Rouge could benefit from a second Major Power choice.
Consider two major powers (chose one) Metamorph, Elasticity
Elasticity (major)
You possess a rubbery body that allows then to stretch and strike opponents at range in melee, climb, grapple, avoid holds, etc. you have the following abilities:
- 15” reach for all melee attacks.
- +2D for all grappling attacks and holds, escaping any grapples and holds, breakout attempts from entangle attack and also all jumping and falling checks.
- Immune to all Knockbacks
- Climb up or over any obstacle up to 15” high as a normal move
- Once per turn can catch any falling model within 15” canceling all damage to them.
I think this better delineates shape shifters from stretch and elastic characters within the Metamorph Archetype with a simple major power addition.
Kim
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Thoughts on Metamorph Archetype
The Metamorph Major Power does a good job representing those with significant Shape Shifting ability that can assume alternate forms such as Beast Boy, Metamorpho, Chameleon Boy and the Metal Men. However characters that are primarily stretch types such as Mr. Fantastic, Elongated Man or Madam Rouge could benefit from a second Major Power choice.
Consider two major powers (chose one) Metamorph, Elasticity
Elasticity (major)
You possess a rubbery body that allows then to stretch and strike opponents at range in melee, climb, grapple, avoid holds, etc. you have the following abilities:
- 15” reach for all melee attacks.
- +2D for all grappling attacks and holds, escaping any grapples and holds, breakout attempts from entangle attack and also all jumping and falling checks.
- Immune to all Knockbacks
- Climb up or over any obstacle up to 15” high as a normal move
- Once per turn can catch any falling model within 15” canceling all damage to them.
I think this better delineates shape shifters from stretch and elastic characters within the Metamorph Archetype with a simple major power addition.
Kim
This is, of course, text borrowed from SuperSystem. I could have used this from the beginning and I thought about doing so, but where I could in SMF I sought out ways to compact and abstract genre concepts.
One area was Metamorph. I think you can use the six forms of Metamorph to do just about everything Elasticity can do, save for maybe the rescue aspect.
I am not sure I am willing to add another major power just to cover this. I'll think about though.
As always, I really appreciate your feedback and contributions!
:)
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Added another updated version, 1.35 this time.
https://app.box.com/s/4sx2qknhb2nd4ptn8o4wrvmqd3ldgoa6
The major change here is I added a little system of Faults & Weaknesses in the Appendix.
It's completely optional and very light.
I also tweaked Amphibious a little bit, lowered its bonus from +2D to +1D[1].
A few other tweaks and changes here and there. That's it! :)
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I plan to work this into the Metamorph form selections:
=============
Save (minor)
You can assist a nearby character as things go bad! Once per round, as a reaction during another character's turn, you can cancel or mitigate the effects of knockdown, knockback, and falls on a character within 10" of you. You can completely eliminate the knockback if it starts within your 10" range, or cancel a knockdown effect on a character who passes within your 10" range. You can also cancel the negative effects of a falling character. You can completely eliminate a character's fall if it starts within your 10" range, or cancel a fall's damage if the character lands within your 10" range. If you cancel a character's knockback or fall, that character is not knocked down.
If you choose it, cancel the effects of a knockdown or knockback on yourself. If you choose it, cancel any falls you suffer, or suffer no damage when you land after falling.
Example: Polymer looks on as his teammate Serpent gets knocked off of a high ledge! Checking the range, Polymer sees that Serpent is only 8" away, so he activates his Save for that round and cancels the knockback on Serpent, placing him at the edge of the drop-off, standing upright.
========
It will also of course be a minor power available to Wildcards and Street-Level archetypes.
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Scott,
If you are reluctant to add Elasticity, perhaps consider dividing the power packages into two groups, one for Shape Shifter types and one for Stretch Types. Pick which type of Metamorph you are:
Shape Shifter (i.e. Beast Boy type)
- Armor, +6” move, Melee weapons (Rhino)
- Massive, Super strength, 3” reach (Elephant)
- Amphibious, Multiple limbs, 6” reach (Giant Squid)
- Flight, Enhanced senses, Sonic blast (Eagle)
- Super agility, Melee weapons, +6” move (Lion)
- Flight, Power blast, Armor (Dragon)
Stretch (i.e. Mr. Fantastic type)
- Entangle, +6” move, Super strength
- Density increase, Fortune, Regen
- Super agility, 5” reach, Melee weapons
- Obscurement, Enhance, +6” move
- Stun, Resistance, Leap
- Fast, 10” reach, Counter Attack
These are just examples. Obviously, there are lots of possible combinations for both and maybe you don’t need 6 forms for each. I do think there is a significant distinction between them to consider this.
Thanks for listening. I’m on board whatever you do.
Kim
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Scott,
If you are reluctant to add Elasticity, perhaps consider dividing the power packages into two groups, one for Shape Shifter types and one for Stretch Types. Pick which type of Metamorph you are:
Shape Shifter (i.e. Beast Boy type)
- Armor, +6” move, Melee weapons (Rhino)
- Massive, Super strength, 3” reach (Elephant)
- Amphibious, Multiple limbs, 6” reach (Giant Squid)
- Flight, Enhanced senses, Sonic blast (Eagle)
- Super agility, Melee weapons, +6” move (Lion)
- Flight, Power blast, Armor (Dragon)
Stretch (i.e. Mr. Fantastic type)
- Entangle, +6” move, Super strength
- Density increase, Fortune, Regen
- Super agility, 5” reach, Melee weapons
- Obscurement, Enhance, +6” move
- Stun, Resistance, Leap
- Fast, 10” reach, Counter Attack
These are just examples. Obviously, there are lots of possible combinations for both and maybe you don’t need 6 forms for each. I do think there is a significant distinction between them to consider this.
Thanks for listening. I’m on board whatever you do.
Kim
Funny you should mention this. I ran a couple of games yesterday and I was feeling the Metamorph was a bit too potent with so many options. So your post couple with that spurred me to re-work things like this:
======
Metamorph (major)
You possess ultimate control over your body. You may be elastic and malleable, or a shapeshifter capable of assuming multiple forms! You maintain a somewhat normal humanoid form that allows you to wear clothing and communicate normally, but you can will this form to stretch or change at your whim. Chose either the Elasticity or Shape-Shifter tracks when you select this power.
At the beginning of each game, and then at the beginning of each turn, spend a free action and select one of the packages of powers and benefits listed under your track. These each represent different forms or shapes your body can take:
Elasticity
-- Form 1: Melee Weapon, +6” Move, +10” Reach
-- Form 2: Multiple Limbs, Save, Super-Agility
-- Form 3: Save, Super-Agility,+6” Move
Shape-Shifter
-- Form 4: Leaping, Melee Weapon, +4” Reach
-- Form 5: Enhanced Senses, Entangle, Super-Agility
-- Form 6: Armor, Flight, Power Blasts (minor)
If you take the Shape-Shifter track you can give up the minor power selection the Metamorph archetype grants you and instead choose one of packages from the Elasticity track to give yourself even more versatility!
=====
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Like This!
A couple questions on Multiple Limbs:
How is there an extra Ranged attack?
It says you gain 10” reach with your extra attacks, is it both, or just the second? Needs clarity.
Perhaps it should just say you get two attacks, but only one attack gets a charge bonus.
Not sure the range break for dice reduction is worth it, just make it all -1D up to 10"
Not sure why extra limbs give you 10”reach either. Tentacles make sense like Doc Octopus, but not for a 4 armed Ape or human size Bug. Maybe you could get a choice of Reach, or Re-rolls to differentiate this.
Like the Save Power also!
SMF is looking good.
Kim
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Like This!
A couple questions on Multiple Limbs:
How is there an extra Ranged attack?
It says you gain 10” reach with your extra attacks, is it both, or just the second? Needs clarity.
Perhaps it should just say you get two attacks, but only one attack gets a charge bonus.
Not sure the range break for dice reduction is worth it, just make it all -1D up to 10"
Not sure why extra limbs give you 10”reach either. Tentacles make sense like Doc Octopus, but not for a 4 armed Ape or human size Bug. Maybe you could get a choice of Reach, or Re-rolls to differentiate this.
Like the Save Power also!
SMF is looking good.
Kim
I removed the extra ranged attack from Multiple Limbs. That was old text and needed trimmed. I clarified some of the other text as well.
Thanks!
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This one has been bugging me for a while.
Issues with Leaping
Models currently can leap up 20” plus 1” for goals rolled on 4D and 30” long plus 4D goals. Then, add chance check at the end before landing to see if you are on target. That’s a lot of rolling for a single leap.
Also it says you melee a flying foe if they’re in your path, than can land in contact with another model and make an attack. Is that two attacks in one turn? Doesn't seem right.
But the biggest issue is the length of the leap. 30" plus the goals for leaping compared to only 20” for the Flight Power is just too much.
Ok, Hulk with his super strength can go pretty far, but Iron Man and Thor can fly at supersonic speed, and a Green Lantern, or Superman even faster! Then there is the less then Hulk strength type leapers like the Beast, or even the street level villain Leap Frog, who in no way could leap away from Iron Man.
Soooo…… consider this for Leaping:
“Exchange your standard move for a 4D action check. Declare where you want to land. You may leap 15” high and long, adding 1” for each goal scored from your single roll to both. If you fail to score at least 2 goals, your opponent can decide where you land within 5” of your intended landing spot.
Super strength (minor) allows you a 20” leap instead of 15”, and Super strength (major) 25”, plus the 4D roll for both powers.*
If you land in base contact with an enemy model, the leap counts as a charge and you may attack them. If your leap path takes you past a flying foe, you can make a single melee attack against them instead, but then you cannot land in base contact with another enemy model.”
*<side note, remove the +1D and +2D leaping bonus under super strength of both>.
Then add to the Flight Power:
“You can take a Special action and fly up to 40” instead of 20”. If so, you must remain in flight and not land, nor take any combat actions. Add +2D to your body defense rolls when you take this action. Street level archetypes with Flight may not take this special action.”
Comment - I think this puts Flying and Leaping powers in better proportion to each other. Also it reduces to a single roll for Leaping instead of multiple rolls.
Kim
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Soooo…… consider this for Leaping:
“Exchange your standard move for a 4D action check. Declare where you want to land. You may leap 15” high and long, adding 1” for each goal scored from your single roll to both. If you fail to score at least 2 goals, your opponent can decide where you land within 5” of your intended landing spot.
Super strength (minor) allows you a 20” leap instead of 15”, and Super strength (major) 25”, plus the 4D roll for both powers.*
If you land in base contact with an enemy model, the leap counts as a charge and you may attack them. If your leap path takes you past a flying foe, you can make a single melee attack against them instead, but then you cannot land in base contact with another enemy model.”
*<side note, remove the +1D and +2D leaping bonus under super strength of both>.
Then add to the Flight Power:
“You can take a Special action and fly up to 40” instead of 20”. If so, you must remain in flight and not land, nor take any combat actions. Add +2D to your body defense rolls when you take this action. Street level archetypes with Flight may not take this special action.”
Comment - I think this puts Flying and Leaping powers in better proportion to each other. Also it reduces to a single roll for Leaping instead of multiple rolls.
That makes leaping worse than flying in every way... You can't move as far in a leap plus it has the potential for your opponent to deviate you a third of the distance you moved, then with flying you also have immunity to melee attacks from non-flying models. I do like the idea of combining the jump and landing checks into a single roll to simplify things though and the clarification on the attack on a flying foe being your attack for that turn.
Technically in comic books flying is always gonna be better than someone who can jump really, really far but in a game where each power costs the same essentially, compromises need to be made. Also I get that it's more about choosing powers to fit a concept than min-maxing but again movement powers become pretty directly comparable.
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Just to clarify, you only roll the 4D one time and add it to each base number.
Also, you don't get to attack twice. That would be really powerful and not at all the intent of the power. I will clarify this to make sure no one else thinks that.
Beyond this, I'll look at leaping again, but I am not immediately inclined to make any major changes to it.
Thanks!
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I've made some adjustments to Leaping. They'll show up in the next revision, which I'll post later tonight! :)
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A few questions Scott:
When breaking from melee against multiple opponents, do they get there bonus for outnumbering the foe breaking away?
Characters attacking a grappled model gain +1D, does this include the character continuing to attack after the initial grapple?
Under burning it says a model aflame suffers a TN4 hit each round. Do you mean you must make 4 goals or take 1 hit, or should it be a 4D attack? It could use an example.
Does falling work like drowning? That is, the difference between the failed TN roll is the damage taken? The example given does not indicate the damage taken. Also it says models that survive a fall are knocked down and must spend 1” of their move to stand up. Under knock down rule it says spend 2”?
Under Poison and Disease it says no re-roll for Armor, but armor doesn’t give a re-roll, just reduces damage. Should it say no reduction for armor?
Can you use one of your free actions to re-charge a power or ability the same turn you use it or do you have to wait till your following turn?
On KO checks it says that if a character passes his KO check he can remain standing and fight, but what if the damage that KO’d them also caused a knock back and then a Knock down prior to the KO? Does the character stay knocked down?
Thanks
Kim
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A few questions Scott:
When breaking from melee against multiple opponents, do they get there bonus for outnumbering the foe breaking away?
Yes.
Characters attacking a grappled model gain +1D, does this include the character continuing to attack after the initial grapple?
No, the grappler is busy grappling his target and squeezing for damage. I'll clarify this.
Under burning it says a model aflame suffers a TN4 hit each round. Do you mean you must make 4 goals or take 1 hit, or should it be a 4D attack? It could use an example.
It's the former. I'll make this clearer as well. ;)
Does falling work like drowning? That is, the difference between the failed TN roll is the damage taken? The example given does not indicate the damage taken. Also it says models that survive a fall are knocked down and must spend 1” of their move to stand up. Under knock down rule it says spend 2”?
Yes, it's similar. Again, I'll clarify this and make it consistent.
Under Poison and Disease it says no re-roll for Armor, but armor doesn’t give a re-roll, just reduces damage. Should it say no reduction for armor?
Yes. I'll fix that.
Can you use one of your free actions to re-charge a power or ability the same turn you use it or do you have to wait till your following turn?
Recharges occur at the beginning of your turn. So no.
On KO checks it says that if a character passes his KO check he can remain standing and fight, but what if the damage that KO’d them also caused a knock back and then a Knock down prior to the KO? Does the character stay knocked down?
"Remain standing" is more figurative language. I will use different terms there. ;D
Thanks
Kim
No, thank you!
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Version 1.36 is up!
https://app.box.com/s/4sx2qknhb2nd4ptn8o4wrvmqd3ldgoa6
Version 1.36 changes
-- Split Metamorph forms into two tracks, Elasticity and Shape-Shifter
-- Added the Save minor power
-- Adjusted Leaping
-- Lots of minor edits and touch-ups
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Folks, I am planning to wrap up the play-testing phase of this process this week.
What does this mean? Once Joe D starts the layout, major changes and additions will be much harder to do. We can make all the minor edits and corrections we need to up to and even after we release the PDF and POD book, but any major changes will be unlikely from this point on.
I am very happy with how things have rounded into shape. I am going to keep working the text this week, and I hope to play-test again tonight. I've got a nicely re-based and touched-up Frog-Man mini to test the new and improved Leaping rules out on.
I think we've hit a sweet spot of detail and playability.
If you have been meaning to try the rules or have tried or read them and have not said your piece, do so now. :D
Thanks!
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Updated to version 1.37
Major changes were some edits on the Advanced Archetype Maneuvers.
https://app.box.com/s/4sx2qknhb2nd4ptn8o4wrvmqd3ldgoa6
Thanks!
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Updated revision 1.38 uploaded:
https://app.box.com/s/4sx2qknhb2nd4ptn8o4wrvmqd3ldgoa6
Highlights include:
-- Added scenario rules for Civilians
-- Clarified some stuff with Density Decrease
-- Added a note to the Telekinesis text
Not a whole lot else with this version.
Thanks!
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Scott, some thoughts as you are near completion
The Wild Card Maneuver “Desperate Defense” only works if attacked by multiple foes and as such could see minimal use, especially in games with small numbers.
I would suggest it be allowed against any Melee attack, and increase the recharge to 2+
This would make Wild Card characters more equitable with others.
Here is one I suggested a while back, but had no real concept at the time, but this might work:
Street Level Henchmen
Your henchman group consists of non-powered thugs, gang bangers, beat cops, security guards, rioters, dock workers, militia men, etc. You can exchange one Street Level Hero or Villain for a Street level Henchman group.
Street Level Henchman does not get any minor powers, but can be equipped with Two (2) of the following:
1. Firearms – you are armed with pistols, shotguns or even throwing weapons. Can make a 10” Ranged attack.
2. Close combat weapon – you are armed with a Billy club, knife, ball bat, tire iron, chain, riot baton, etc. This grants you a +1 re-roll on melee attack goal rolls.
3. Close combat defense – you are equipped with a riot shield, helmet, shoulder pads and vest, etc. This grants you a +1 to defense body goal rolls.
4. Hordes – you have extra help waiting in reserve or hiding in the shadows. At the beginning of your turn make a chance roll. The number of goals scored is the number of models previously removed from the same group that appear to re-fill your ranks. Place them within 2” of the other group members.
5. Special weapons – you are equipped with weapons for special cases such as tear gas, flash-bang grenades, bottle bombs, mace, smoke bombs, etc. Once per game you may make an attack as if you had the Stun minor power body based attack.
Street Level Henchmen are subject to Panic. If you have less than half your starting numbers, make a TN4 check at the start of your turn or suffer the difference in members of the group that flee in panic. If this removes all of the remaining group it is considered wiped out. This check is made prior to any roll for Hordes.
Finally, I still think that Veteran Henchman is underpowered for the tradeoff of 5 vs 10 models. I would suggest that Veteran Henchman also gain the Wild Card Special Maneuvers to reflect their training and experience. This should make them more worthwhile to take.
Thanks again for all your consideration Scott.
Kim
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Veterans don't really fit the scope of what I'm doing here so I am just dropping the rules out. If you want to field fewer than 10 models, I've included a note advising you to use a damage tracker or dice pips, or just treat each model as wirth rwo damage points.
Job done.
I like your street level rules. I've altered them slightly and included them. This makes normal Henchmen more elite, and lessens even more the need for Vets.
Thanks!
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Some comments and questions on Super Powers:
Damage Field - does this work during attack, defense or both? Any time you are contacted or contact others, friend or foe?
Duplicate – sentence says any time your duplicate takes damage and fails his KO check it takes a toll, but previously it states the copy automatically fails their KO check. This should be more clear.
Also the example says Z-Rox copy can take his turn after Z-Rox finishes his turn, but in the rule text is states the duplicate can go before or after you. Needs clarified.
Enhance (both major and minor) – is there a limit to how many re-rolls a character can accumulate?
Flight - It states it takes a free action to land, but does it take free action to take off? Doesn’t say.
Force Field – Can you decide to push your force field to the limit after your opponent makes their goal rolls, or do you need to decide before any opponents roll? If you do push it, does this stay in effect for subsequent attacks against you during the same round?
Fortune – If you decide to take the +1D[1] on your defense roll, can the extra re-roll that comes with it be used on other goal rolls such that if the +1D is successful, the [1] re-roll bonus can be used for one of your other failed defense rolls?
Healing – it says you can heal yourself or any character in melee contact with you. That would be an enemy. Should it just say any friendly character you are in base contact with?
Immortal – Can a KO’d Immortal be attacked before they stand back up? Would they make defense rolls? Can you just keep attacking them while they are down to keep them from every standing up?
Iron Will – Does the +1D to KO checks apply to KO’s to the body or only psyche KO’s?
Mentalism – can Mind Control be used on opposing characters in melee, including with the Mentalist? Can it be used on friendly characters? Even ones that have already taken a turn?
Servitor/Sidekick – If your sidekick arrives late, where are they placed? Board edge? Scenario starting spot for your side? Near your character?
Shrinking – getting +2 Re-rolls for melee attacks seems like a lot for a tiny character! I get the +2 for defense as they should be hard to hit. Even so, if you stack Shrinking with Melee Weapons and Super Agility as a Wild Card character you would get +4 Re-rolls on attack and defense. That’s one Mighty Mite!
You might want to revisit this power and the killer combination you could make with it as it does not fit a character like Ant-man. At least reduce/remove the melee attack bonus. Not sure they should even be allowed to use Melee Weapons with this either.
Summoning – If you summon a henchman group do they get 2 minor powers like a normal henchman group? Maybe they should only be Street Level Henchmen such as occultists, pack of wild animals, skeletons or soldiers from antiquity.
Thanks again
Kim
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Some comments and questions on Super Powers:
Damage Field - does this work during attack, defense or both? Any time you are contacted or contact others, friend or foe?
Any time contact is made. So both.
Duplicate – sentence says any time your duplicate takes damage and fails his KO check it takes a toll, but previously it states the copy automatically fails their KO check. This should be more clear.
Ok.
Also the example says Z-Rox copy can take his turn after Z-Rox finishes his turn, but in the rule text is states the duplicate can go before or after you. Needs clarified.
Will do.
Enhance (both major and minor) – is there a limit to how many re-rolls a character can accumulate?
This is explained in the general rules for Re-rolls--6 Re-rolls in your temp pool.
Flight - It states it takes a free action to land, but does it take free action to take off? Doesn’t say.
No. It's part of your Movement to take off.
Force Field – Can you decide to push your force field to the limit after your opponent makes their goal rolls, or do you need to decide before any opponents roll? If you do push it, does this stay in effect for subsequent attacks against you during the same round?
I will clarify this.
Fortune – If you decide to take the +1D[1] on your defense roll, can the extra re-roll that comes with it be used on other goal rolls such that if the +1D is successful, the [1] re-roll bonus can be used for one of your other failed defense rolls?
Nope.
Healing – it says you can heal yourself or any character in melee contact with you. That would be an enemy. Should it just say any friendly character you are in base contact with?
Nope. You can heal any character. Sometimes it might behoove you to heal an enemy if he can help you against a greater threat.
Immortal – Can a KO’d Immortal be attacked before they stand back up? Would they make defense rolls? Can you just keep attacking them while they are down to keep them from every standing up?
I will clarify this.
Iron Will – Does the +1D to KO checks apply to KO’s to the body or only psyche KO’s?
KO checks, period. So both.
Mentalism – can Mind Control be used on opposing characters in melee, including with the Mentalist? Can it be used on friendly characters? Even ones that have already taken a turn?
You cannot use Mentalism while in Melee. I will clarify for your other questions.
Servitor/Sidekick – If your sidekick arrives late, where are they placed? Board edge? Scenario starting spot for your side? Near your character?
Again, I will clarify this.
Shrinking – getting +2 Re-rolls for melee attacks seems like a lot for a tiny character! I get the +2 for defense as they should be hard to hit. Even so, if you stack Shrinking with Melee Weapons and Super Agility as a Wild Card character you would get +4 Re-rolls on attack and defense. That’s one Mighty Mite!
You might want to revisit this power and the killer combination you could make with it as it does not fit a character like Ant-man. At least reduce/remove the melee attack bonus. Not sure they should even be allowed to use Melee Weapons with this either.
I'll look at this, but remember, Melee Weapon is an abstraction. It does have to literally mean "sword" or "claws". But I will look at it.
Summoning – If you summon a henchman group do they get 2 minor powers like a normal henchman group? Maybe they should only be Street Level Henchmen such as occultists, pack of wild animals, skeletons or soldiers from antiquity.
I'll look at this.
Thanks again
You're welcome!
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Also the example says Z-Rox copy can take his turn after Z-Rox finishes his turn, but in the rule text is states the duplicate can go before or after you. Needs clarified.
I looked at this again. The example is correct. It details a specific game instance where Z-Rox has just acted to duplicate himself, and so his duplicate can only act after him--he did not exist prior to being created by Duplicate.
Just an FYI. ;)
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Should Servitor/Sidekicks and Thralls made by the Vampire power be prevented from creating more vampires? What about summoned beings? While it would fit the fictional tropes for vampires to spread, it may be a game balance issue...
Also, what about a power to make barriers/walls?
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Should Servitor/Sidekicks and Thralls made by the Vampire power be prevented from creating more vampires? What about summoned beings? While it would fit the fictional tropes for vampires to spread, it may be a game balance issue...
There is a 2% the Vampiric thrall would get the Vampire power. That's not unbalanced, I think.
Also, what about a power to make barriers/walls?
This is a very good idea. Forgot it. I just hate writing these sorts of powers for competitive play. But I'll get to work on it. :D
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Have at it...
Barrier (minor)
You can use a special action to create a TN3 (Body 4), 3” long x 2” tall x 1” thick barrier on the battlefield. Make a standard 4D check when you create your barrier. Each goal you score can add 1” to the barrier’s width and height. You can place the barrier up to 10” away from you. You must place your barrier on solid ground, or anchored between two solid objects. Use the rules for breaking objects in Chapter 3 when models try to break through your barrier. You can stack barriers on top of each other, or one behind the other. You can remove a barrier you created from play by simply spending a free action. You cannot place your barrier on top of models, or in any way use it as an attack. Recharge 2+
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Version 1.39 is now up:
https://app.box.com/s/4sx2qknhb2nd4ptn8o4wrvmqd3ldgoa6
Lots of general edits and the inclusion of the Barrier power.
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Good Job Scott,
Hope you don’t mind a few more thoughts as you near completion.
On Henchmen:
Need to remove the Veterans (Yes/No) since you have done away with them.
How about Flight as a minor power choice for Henchmen? These could be Darkseid’s Para-Demons, Giant Bats, Swarms of Drones (of which I have the models!), Winged Warriors, Rocket-Men, etc. Currently you only have 7 power choices so one more choice is consistent.
Still need to address whether summoned henchmen get one or two minor powers. Maybe you should only get Henchmen (with 2 minor powers) on a roll of 6+ instead of 4+ and that would be fair.
Also
Shouldn’t the “Escape Artist” maneuver also allow you to escape from being entrapped by the Entangle power? Logic seems that it should.
On Archetype Maneuvers:
It seems the Mentalist Maneuver “Mind Meld” is overpowered. It says it grants ALL your teammates +2 Re-rolls. Is there no limit? If it’s a large game, or even with 6 street level archetype teammates in normal size game it is a lot to add. There is also no range limit, just everyone on the board. No restriction even if you are in melee.
The trade-off of losing 1 Psyche box is pretty minimal since the Mentalist starts with 8 damage boxes. If your opponent has no characters capable of inflicting Psyche damage, you can pretty much take yourself down to 1 box with no fear. This, at only a 1+ recharge, makes this very powerful, especially in the first few turns of the game.
This is way better than Enhance power. Even if you limited the bonus to a single model each turn (which would be my suggestion) it is still pretty darn good. Please take another look at this.
Finally,
To get a little more variety for certain characters armed with weapons/combat mastery, etc., consider two different types of Melee weapons. This allows you to differentiate between heavy/offensive type weapons such as two handed weapons, killer claws, or giant hammers, etc., and lighter weapons like swords that can thrust and parry, a pair of matched weapons in each hand, protective gauntlets with blades, self defense mastery,etc. Consider this revision for Melee Weapons:
Melee Weapon (minor)
You possess some sort of special weapon or enhanced melee training--chi energy, claws, energy sword,
hammer, etc. It’s intrinsically part of your character, and cannot easily be taken from you. It grants you +2
Re-rolls on melee attack goal rolls, and +2D on any checks to break objects or escape entangles.
You may optionally have a weapon or training that can parry or block your opponent’s attacks as well as aid your own melee attacks (such as a sword, pair of sais or daggers, steel gauntlets, advanced martial arts, etc.). It grants you +1 Re-rolls on melee attack and melee defense goal rolls, and +1D on any checks to break objects or escape entangles, and also to escape a grapple.
Comment – it’s a minor point, but certain models fit the second choice for the type of Melee Weapons they are armed with, allowing some defensive capability for less attack value. It also is a better fit for certain henchman models.
And one more thing:
Looking at the 4 vs a Titan (which I like!) the choice between Tough Out and Hordes is a no brainer to take the Henchmen over the +1D on your KO check.
Gain +1D to All Defensive checks is a more equitable choice for Tough Out, and makes for a Really Tough Titan! Will take some teamwork to take this guy down! (Think Thanos or Darkseid). That will be Fun.
Keep up the good work, I like what you’re doing.
Kim
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Kim, I made some adjustments based on your comments. Thanks as always!
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Just a general aside on design and the rules.
As I've begun to fine-tune things, I've looked more closely at the "numbers" and what they do and mean.
For example, +2 Re-rolls is actually better than +1D. So 4D[2] averages 3.72 goals, and 5D averages 3.32 goals. Meanwhile a 4D[1] dice pool averages 3.29, a number I can live with.
I wasn't liking the 4D[2] for certain minor powers like Super-Agility and Melee Weapon. So I've adjusted them to grant just +1 Re-roll, and tweaked them to grant other benefits. As an example, here's what those powers look like now:
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Melee Specialist (minor)
You possess some sort of special weapon or enhanced melee training--chi energy, claws, energy sword, esoteric martial arts, hammer, etc. It’s intrinsically part of your character, and cannot easily be taken from you. It grants you +1 Re-roll on melee attack rolls, +1 Re-roll on melee defense rolls, and +2D on any checks to break objects or escape entangles.
Super-Agility (minor)
You are gifted with incredible, sometimes superhuman athleticism! You gain +2” to your move and +1 Re-roll on all defense checks against Body damaging attacks, and any check to avoid being knocked down. You can move up, hang from, and walk along vertical surfaces as if they were normal ground. You can also spend a Move action to move between structures or other vertical terrain pieces within 15” of each other by swinging on lines or making highly agile leaps. You must be in contact with one of the structures before initiating this move. Place yourself anywhere on the structure within 15” of your starting point.
Example: Arachno-Man (Super-Agility) starts his turn next to a building and moves straight up the side 9” (his normal move). Next turn, he measures and notes a nearby building sits 14” away. He spends his Move action and places himself on the side of that building. It pays to be super-agile!
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Notice I changed Melee Weapon's name to Melee Specialist. Fergal has been on me to do this for weeks, and this change in the rules finally prompted me to do so! ;D
I've also been going through the rules and trying to balance each minor power based on what it gives you. Look, they're not all going to be equal. That's not my mission with SMF, but I can at least try to make them close.
So a minor power can do one or two important things, or maybe three or four less critical, but cool things.
Take Power Blasts (minor). It gives you "permission" to make a 15" ranged attack, AND gives you +1D[1] to give it up some teeth (yes, I added a Re-roll to both Power Blasts; I wanted to give them some more teeth in play). That's 2 pretty critical things.
Now let's look at Super-Agility more closely. I would argue it does 4 less critical things: 1. +2" Move, 2. +1 Re-roll on Body defenses and knockdown, 3. enhanced movement (vertical surfaces), 4. enhanced movement (swinging).
SO are these balanced with each other? Maybe. They are for me. I've played about 20 games and listened to a lot of feedback. I've also been playing and writing Goalsystem games for 15 years. Does that mean I'm always spot on with these things? Heck no. Just read this thread to see where I've initially missed on things. ;)
Anyway, these musings are here to give you some insight into why I've tinkered and tweaked the way I have over the last few revisions.
As always, thanks for reading!
P.S. I'll throw up another revision later today!
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Anyway, these musings are here to give you some insight into why I've tinkered and tweaked the way I have over the last few revisions.
I think that you've been very open in your thinking all along! I know I appreciate it and I think others do as well. :)
I love the way it's shaping up and I love that you aren't trying to make things exactly equal. I really appreciate that the simplicity is really still there. I don't care if things are balanced for competitive play, I don't think anyone really thinks it's necessary. I do however love the fact that you have been spending time clarifying things, even if it seem tedious on your end at times. I think it will pay off in the end, and you will end up with a tight system. I'd prefer a tight, fun rule system over a competitive one any day.
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I think that you've been very open in your thinking all along! I know I appreciate it and I think others do as well. :)
I love the way it's shaping up and I love that you aren't trying to make things exactly equal. I really appreciate that the simplicity is really still there. I don't care if things are balanced for competitive play, I don't think anyone really thinks it's necessary. I do however love the fact that you have been spending time clarifying things, even if it seem tedious on your end at times. I think it will pay off in the end, and you will end up with a tight system. I'd prefer a tight, fun rule system over a competitive one any day.
Thanks, fergal! I'm getting there with a lot of help from he LAF cognoscenti! You included! :)
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Version 1.40 is now up:
https://app.box.com/s/4sx2qknhb2nd4ptn8o4wrvmqd3ldgoa6
Lots of tweaks to various Re-roll totals and other adjustments
https://app.box.com/s/4sx2qknhb2nd4ptn8o4wrvmqd3ldgoa6
Changes to:
-- Melee Weapon, now Melee Specialist
-- Savant
-- Super-Agility
-- Backgrounds all changed from Re-rolls to dice bonuses
Edited and clarified a bunch other text.
Thanks for looking!
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Awesome Scott!
A couple more questions:
Does Counter Attack (Reflection) allow Knock Back if successful?
Speed (major power):
Does Machine Gun Punch work with Move-By Attack?
Does Charge or Hurricane Charge apply throughout these attacks or just the initial attack?
How about Re-roll bonuses such as melee specialist?
Finally, shouldn’t Speed allow a hero to run up the side of a building? (Flash does this all the time!) You could just count moving up the side of a building as moving through difficult ground, but must end your turn on level ground.
Keep going!
Kim
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Awesome Scott!
A couple more questions:
Does Counter Attack (Reflection) allow Knock Back if successful?
More great questions! No. I've added a note to Reflection that says it does not cause KB.
Speed (major power):
Does Machine Gun Punch work with Move-By Attack?
No. I'll note this.
Does Charge or Hurricane Charge apply throughout these attacks or just the initial attack?
Move-by attack is not a charge attack. I noted this.
How about Re-roll bonuses such as melee specialist?
The Re-roll from a power like Melee Specialist is part of your core melee ability. I did change the wording on MG Punch to read +1D rather than the "5D" pool. This will make it conceptually easier to think about adding the +1D and the Re-roll from Melee Specialist in together. I hope. o_o
Finally, shouldn’t Speed allow a hero to run up the side of a building? (Flash does this all the time!) You could just count moving up the side of a building as moving through difficult ground, but must end your turn on level ground.
Yeah, I've thought this a lot. I may add it in. The key is kleeping that rough balance. Don't want speed to be able to do too much.
I'll mull it over some more.
Thanks!
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Yeah, I've thought this a lot. I may add it in. The key is keeping that rough balance. Don't want speed to be able to do too much.
I'll mull it over some more.
Thanks!
Maybe allow it as I suggested (moving up walls like difficult terrain, must end move on level ground) but may not use any special maneuvers and do not get any charge bonus.
This would be a balanced trade off I think
Kim
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Here are some other ideas for powers (Wild Card) that I think would represent comic characters as well as fit many of the models:
Gunfighter (minor)
You are a firearms specialist armed with a machine gun, assault weapon, multiple pistols, etc. You can make a 15” ranged attack. Your shots are physical in nature and inflict Body damage.
In addition to your normal attack during your turn, you may make one (1) additional ranged attack in the round directed at an opposing character during their turn after they move and just before their combat action. You cannot shoot at a character you are already in melee with, but can shoot at a character the turn they charge you before their melee attack.
Hex/Jinx (minor)
You can nullify your opponent’s powers. Use a special action against any foe up to 5” away (including in melee with you) to make a 5D opposed psyche attack. This does no damage. If you win, each goal you win by cancels one power or boost of your choice (major powers count as two). You opponent is treated as not having the power(s) you choose to cancel until the start of your next turn. Opponents that loss flying will suffer a fall. Should you be KO’d your opponents powers returns immediately. Re-charge 2+
Invulnerability (minor x 2)
Because of your alien physiology, mutant DNA, radioactively enhanced cells or demonic nature, etc. you are virtually indestructible! Gain +2D on all defense checks from Body damaging attacks and +2D on KO checks. You cannot take this with Resistance.
Surge (minor)
Just when you opponent thinks he has you beat, you are like a cornered beast, and more deadly than ever! When your last damage box is checked off, take your KO check as normal. If you pass your check, any type of damage you inflict from then on is doubled!
Thanks
Kim
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Here are some other ideas for powers (Wild Card) that I think would represent comic characters as well as fit many of the models:
Gunfighter (minor)
You are a firearms specialist armed with a machine gun, assault weapon, multiple pistols, etc. You can make a 15” ranged attack. Your shots are physical in nature and inflict Body damage.
In addition to your normal attack during your turn, you may make one (1) additional ranged attack in the round directed at an opposing character during their turn after they move and just before their combat action. You cannot shoot at a character you are already in melee with, but can shoot at a character the turn they charge you before their melee attack.
Hex/Jinx (minor)
You can nullify your opponent’s powers. Use a special action against any foe up to 5” away (including in melee with you) to make a 5D opposed psyche attack. This does no damage. If you win, each goal you win by cancels one power or boost of your choice (major powers count as two). You opponent is treated as not having the power(s) you choose to cancel until the start of your next turn. Opponents that loss flying will suffer a fall. Should you be KO’d your opponents powers returns immediately. Re-charge 2+
Invulnerability (minor x 2)
Because of your alien physiology, mutant DNA, radioactively enhanced cells or demonic nature, etc. you are virtually indestructible! Gain +2D on all defense checks from Body damaging attacks and +2D on KO checks. You cannot take this with Resistance.
Surge (minor)
Just when you opponent thinks he has you beat, you are like a cornered beast, and more deadly than ever! When your last damage box is checked off, take your KO check as normal. If you pass your check, any type of damage you inflict from then on is doubled!
Thanks
Kim
These are all pretty cool, Kim! I especially like Surge and Jinx (though we could just rename it to Dispel--MHoxie asked for this and I was not keen on including it because it's a PITA power). But... Joe's going to start layout this week coming up. I don't think I'll have time to play-test these properly, and I am not sure how much more I want to cram in at this point.
We have to stop somewhere or the rules will never get done! ;D
But I'll have a think on it. I may throw Surge in and change the name to Berserker. They could go in as archetype Maneuvers. Not sure yet. I'll mull it over.
Thanks!
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Ok, I am going to include Dispel because once we do, you can pretty much do anything in SMF that you could do in SS4, and that's important to me.
Anyway, here's the first stab at it, based on Kim's Jinx write-up:
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Dispel (minor)
You can nullify your opponent’s powers or power effects. Spend a combat action against a single foe in melee or up to 5” away and make a 5D opposed Psyche attack. This does no damage. On a success, each goal you win by cancels one of the target's powers or boosts of your choice (major powers require 2 goals). Your opponent loses access to the power(s) you choose to cancel until the start of your next turn. Opponents that lose Flight will suffer a fall. Should you be KO’ed your target's powers return immediately. You can also direct this power at effects like Barriers, Entangles, and Summoned creatures. Use the exact same procedure detailed above, but instead of taking the target's power away, you remove the effect (i.e., the barrier, the entangle, or the summoned creature). If you target the same character more than once, he gains +1 Re-roll to resist your power after the first attempt. Recharge 2+
========
I included that last bit because as a player I hate denial powers. They're not fun, IMHO, and so if you want to continually rob a player's coolest model of his fun stuff, he'll at least get a slight buff to prevent it. :D
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Looks good Scott
Thanks!
Kim
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Gunfighter (minor)
You are a firearms specialist armed with a machine gun, assault weapon, multiple pistols, etc. You can make a 15” ranged attack. Your shots are physical in nature and inflict Body damage.
In addition to your normal attack during your turn, you may make one (1) additional ranged attack in the round directed at an opposing character during their turn after they move and just before their combat action. You cannot shoot at a character you are already in melee with, but can shoot at a character the turn they charge you before their melee attack.
I like this, but fee like there should be a slight penalty on the second part. A defense reroll to the target or a -1D to the attack.
Just reread the latest draft, and I'm really liking the civilian and Titan rules that were added recently. This is really shaping up to be my favorite miniature rule set.
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I like this, but fee like there should be a slight penalty on the second part. A defense reroll to the target or a -1D to the attack.
Just reread the latest draft, and I'm really liking the civilian and Titan rules that were added recently. This is really shaping up to be my favorite miniature rule set.
Thanks! We're getting close to starting layout. Joe had been traveling for the holidays, so that gave us a bonus week to tweak, edit, and add stuff.
Once I get an initial layout in my hands, I'll need a group of dedicated editors to go through it and check for errors and other issues. I won't be posting the laid out version for general download, so PM me if you're interested. I figure five or so readers will be good, and I have a few people in mind, so I just need one or two more to step forward and volunteer.
Thanks!
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Uploaded the latest version of the rules:
https://app.box.com/s/4sx2qknhb2nd4ptn8o4wrvmqd3ldgoa6
Highlights:
Version 1.41 Changes
-- Savant - added free move, re-worded it a bit
-- Added Dispel
-- Added Average Joe fault
And a few other minor edits...
Thanks!
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Once I get an initial layout in my hands, I'll need a group of dedicated editors to go through it and check for errors and other issues. I won't be posting the laid out version for general download, so PM me if you're interested. I figure five or so readers will be good, and I have a few people in mind, so I just need one or two more to step forward and volunteer.
I'll be glad to help if you need. I sent you a PM
Kim
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I'll be glad to help if you need. I sent you a PM
Kim
Received, Kim. I had you in mind, anyway! ;D
Thanks!
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How would you make a power for a character who can give other characters bad luck? I'm thinking:
Jinx (minor)
You can curse others with bad luck! Make a 4D, 15" ranged Psyche attack. If you score more goals than your opponent, then he will have the TNs for all rolls he has to make on his next turn increased by one. Also, any movement actions taken will require a TN 3 test (not increased by the Jinx), with one Body lost per goal missed -- from tripping, exploding manhole covers, falling pianos, etc. A character can be under a only a single Jinx at a time.
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I like this Mike! It's in!
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Some other minor power ideas to consider:
Evasive (minor)
Whether from lighting reflexes, chicanery, or temporal displacement you have the knack of avoiding your opponent’s most deadly attacks. Your opponent’s do not receive the normal +1D when they charge you. Also, when you attempt to break from melee, you add +1D for your opposed defense goal roll.
Firearms specialist (minor)
You are will armed and trained with an array of ballistic weapons such as a machine gun, assault rifle or pistols. You can make 15” ranged attacks (4D) with a +1 re-roll. Your blasts are physical in nature and inflict Body damage. You also have the Blaster archetype maneuver, Rapid Fire.
Iron Grip (minor)
You have a large mechanical claw, or use your body to constrict your foe, etc. and can lock him in a deadly hold. All grappling attacks you make grant you a +1 Re-roll.
Berserker (minor)
When you suffer your last box of damage, and pass your KO test you go berserk! Add +1D to all melee attack and defense goal rolls until you are finally knocked out.
Iron Jaw (minor)
You are beat to a pulp, but still won’t go down! If you have passed your first KO check and suffer additional damage you may continue to take a KO check. As long as you keep passing your KO check, you can stay in the fight. You may not use any modifiers for these additional KO checks.
Immune (minor)
Your alien morphology, protective suit and face mask, or mutant genes, etc. provide you immunity against all poison, disease, toxins, spores, gases, biological weapons, radiation, etc. You may ignore any such attacks or effects in scenarios or otherwise if the character is exposed to such agents. This should be considered to be fairly encompassing against a wide variety of possible effects.
More possible options for WILD CARD types.
Kim
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Scott,
Here is a curious question that came up.
A character has the minor powers Mimic and Duplicate. He copies 2 powers from his opponent that are now his powers. Next turn he then duplicates his self. The rules say he possesses all your boost and powers. Since the copied powers are now part of the character, per the rules the duplicate now has these powers as well!
Just want to make sure that is how you want this rule to work.
Thanks, hope everything is progressing well.
Kim
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That's pretty interesting, do you have some Character sheets for trying this game?
How would you do Deadpool?
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This looks great... I'll have to think about the suicide squad as I got that box set recently, although it's still in the long to be painted pile.
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That's pretty interesting, do you have some Character sheets for trying this game?
How would you do Deadpool?
I've been stating the X-Men and Brotherhood of Mutants for playtesting using the very basic archetypes as much as possible.
For Deadpool, I'd go with
Deadpool (Wildcard)
Move: 6"
Body: 6
Psyche: 6
Minor Powers: Immortal (Healing Factor), Melee Specialist (Swords), Power Blast (Guns-a-plenty)
Backgrounds: Criminal, Espionage
The thing I love most about this system is how easy it is to make a character... I cut my superhero teeth on the Champions RPG. This system gives that customizable aspect, with minimal number crunching.
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Thanks, about Deadpool it seems you missed one minor power, I think it could be teleport or explosion. Captain America would be wildcard too, right? because he fights at melee but also throws his shield.
Captain America (Wildcard)
Move: 6"
Body: 6
Psyche: 6
Minor Powers: Melee Specialist, Shield, ¿Power Blast (Shield throwing)? ¿Super-Agility?
Backgrounds: Military, athletics
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Thanks, about Deadpool it seems you missed one minor power, I think it could be teleport or explosion. Captain America would be wildcard too, right? because he fights at melee but also throws his shield.
Captain America (Wildcard)
Move: 6"
Body: 6
Psyche: 6
Minor Powers: Melee Specialist, Shield, ¿Power Blast (Shield throwing)? ¿Super-Agility?
Backgrounds: Military, athletics
Cap works just fine as a Brawler with the Shield minor power. That covers very short ranged attacks, extra defense, and a melee bump.
But your write-up is fine too! You could also write him up as a Mastermind to play-up his ability to give tactical advice.
Or as a Super to give him some extra oomph...
Lots of options!
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Thanks, about Deadpool it seems you missed one minor power, I think it could be teleport or explosion.
In order to use Immortal, which I thought fit better than Regen, the character has to be a Wildcard and it takes up 2 minor power slots.
So the above version fits in the basic rules as written... However, in regular play, I'd probably group okay for him to be built at Super level to add in Teleport for the Bodyslide ability.
There is a Blaster manuever for explosions that would simulate grenades, but no minor power really does it.
Too late for a modification as a minor power, Scott?
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In order to use Immortal, which I thought fit better than Regen, the character has to be a Wildcard and it takes up 2 minor power slots.
So the above version fits in the basic rules as written... However, in regular play, I'd probably group okay for him to be built at Super level to add in Teleport for the Bodyslide ability.
There is a Blaster manuever for explosions that would simulate grenades, but no minor power really does it.
Too late for a modification as a minor power, Scott?
I'll check with Joe and see where he is in the process. Might be possible.
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Scott,
If you can work in one more idea, how about this: as a converse to the Boost option for greater diversity, add a Trade Off option:
Trade Off
Gain one (1) additional minor power from your archetype list by giving up 2 of the following: -1 Body damage box, -1 Psyche damage box, or -1” base movement. You can instead give up all 3 and gain one minor power of your choice from the Street-Level archetype list.
This option will allow for more diverse characters within an archetype class
Kim
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I slipped a Grenades minor power in, and the Trade Off rule tucked under the Boosts.
Thanks!
Grenades (minor)
You possess a 3D, 5” ranged Body attack with a 3” Radius effect. Alternately, before rolling any dice, you can declare you’re throwing a stun grenade. This attack works just like a 3D version of the Stun minor power, but also includes the 3” Radius effect.
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How about smoke grenades and / or poison grenades?
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How about smoke grenades and / or poison grenades?
If you've got someone like that, just use the blaster archetype and choose archer for your power. Should give you the results you are looking for. I think that's what I'll do for the Green Goblin.
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How about smoke grenades and / or poison grenades?
That's where the Stun option comes in. It's a bit of an abstraction, but it works for me.
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Just an update. Joe is making slow, but steady progress on the layout.
I should see some pages within a week or so!
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Looking Forward to this Scott!
Thanks
Kim
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Me too
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Me too
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Joe's still slogging away. I have seen pages for chapter one, but it's not finished enough to preview as of yet.
Keep the faith!
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Joe is through page 83. He tells me that's about a third of the way.
The pages look great! Again, layout is simple A5, single column, very clean layout.
I'll show some images when Joe can get them to me.
Thanks for being patient!
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Looking forward to it...have a bunch of superhero clix ready for repainting as generic heroes for this.
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I seem to have lost my ability to successfully post images to LAF! :'(
But I did tweet out some pages shots of the early SMF layout here:
https://twitter.com/4ColorStudios/status/839135769201627137
Could some kind soul grab the images and re-post them here?
Thanks!
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hey I know that pumpkin-head guy ;)
Looks great so far scott.
Eagerly awaiting the release.
Greetings,
Zeebeest.
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Sooooo much white space.
Seems a waste. Other than that it looks good.
~Eric
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I seem to have lost my ability to successfully post images to LAF! :'(
But I did tweet out some pages shots of the early SMF layout here:
https://twitter.com/4ColorStudios/status/839135769201627137
Could some kind soul grab the images and re-post them here?
Thanks!
Done. ;)
(http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k504/KHoneyman/C6U1g00WcAE6ox0.jpg)(http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k504/KHoneyman/C6U2UJcWgAEJCGp.jpg%20large.jpg)(http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k504/KHoneyman/C6U2b_eXEAEm1FY.jpg)(http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k504/KHoneyman/C6U2YF6WcAEL6Tf.jpg%20large.jpg)
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Thanks!
On the issue of white space--I like it. I am old, and I like to have white space for easier reading.
That said, I think Joe D. has achieved a nice balance of text/images to white space.
As an A5 spiral bound, SMF will hopefully be an easy manual to reference and use in play. More page previews to come!
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This looks fantastic!
IMO I really like the balance of white to be honest. I've too many rulebooks that are so busy I struggle to concentrate. Especially pdf's on tablet.
So a BIG thumbs up from me :)
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Scott, I just wanted to say thanks for putting this set together. I've been playing Void Pirates with my daughter and she's been trying to create Killer Frost, so I gave up on my Star Wars attempts with her and we're going to go with Super Mission Force.
Upon a reading reading of SMF it just hit me again how AWESOME of a rule set this is. It's really what I always wanted when I started digging into SuperSystem. Character creations is just as much fun and we'll be playing in no time. Can't wait to get some games under my belt!
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Thanks, folks! I am hoping to see another batch of pages soon. Once I get a finished product, I will recruit a handful of you for some group editing.
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We are all looking forward to this Scott as it gets near completion. Looks great from the preview!
Kim
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Ok, I've just gone over the completed layout.
Joe D. needs to make a few minor edits, and then I can get it out to a small group of you folks for proofing and troubleshooting.
Very excited to have reached this point!
Barring any unforeseen issues, I should be able to get it on Lulu and generate a proof within a week or so!
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That's Great news!
Kim
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That is great news indeed.
Greetings,
Zeebeest.
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Awesome! (Now why doesn't LAF have a thumbs up emote? ;D)
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We're proofing the first round layout PDF right now.
It's going pretty well. I am thinking about two to three weeks to official release.
Thanks for your patience!
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I like it!
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Great news that we are coming closer to an actual release. Looking forward to it!
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That sounds cool
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I really like the page layout, elegant, and easy to read. Great work !
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Thanks, folks! After getting some great feedback from a few proof readers, I have ordered a print proof from Lulu. Once I confirm this looks good, we'll release both the POD and PDF versions. I am thinking about ten days to two weeks for a general release.
Very excited to get that first print copy in my hands!
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Quick update! I should be receiving my print proof tomorrow! Bad news is I am working overtime tonight and my normal 24 hr. shift is tomorrow, and I may get more OT Thursday, so I am unsure when I will be home to unpack it!
My only hope is my lady can bring it by the firehouse for me. Again, very excited to see it and figure out any last adjustments before release!
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Don't sweat a couple of days. Enjoy getting paid to sleep :) and get to it when you are off.
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Got hard copy! Very happy! Needs just a few tweaks and we're ready for release. As soon as Joe D. is free, we can make the fixes.
Thanks for your continued patience. :)
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Definitely interested in picking up a pdf of this. Are there any plans to make the hard copy available in Europe?
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Definitely interested in picking up a pdf of this. Are there any plans to make the hard copy available in Europe?
It will POD via Lulu--does that work for Euro buyers?
If not, I am willing to work with a Euro POD service.
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It will POD via Lulu--does that work for Euro buyers?
If not, I am willing to work with a Euro POD service.
Lulu works fine for Euro people, it worked fine for SuperSystem for me, so why not for SWF.
Just go to Lulu and select the store you want to use.
Greetings,
Zeebeest.
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Good to know !
I will try to make the game known in France, so maybe a translator will be interested lol
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Pic of the print proof in this tumblr post:
https://supermissionforce.tumblr.com/
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Dude, that looks awesome. I can't decide whether to get two hard copies or just one? I think I want to get one for my daughter as well :)
It all looks great Scott!
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Thanks!
Joe and I are also looking into offering a separate, hardcover option.
The cost on the spiral will be $17.95 for 240 pages. Not sure yet on HC cost.
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Looks amazing :-*
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Looks amazing :-*
Thanks!
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Thanks!
Joe and I are also looking into offering a separate, hardcover option.
The cost on the spiral will be $17.95 for 240 pages. Not sure yet on HC cost.
Awesome news. Great deal on the price, too!
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The book cover looks nice
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The book cover looks nice
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The book cover looks nice
Thanks! Alexander Cook is the man! He did a nice job for us!
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Any idea when you release the PDF???
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Super Mission Force hard copies are now available!
Softcover
http://www.lulu.com/shop/scott-pyle/super-mission-force-softcover/paperback/product-23177616.html
Coil Binding
http://www.lulu.com/shop/scott-pyle/super-mission-force/paperback/product-23177508.html
PDF coming soon!
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Ordered, looking forward to it!
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Ordered, looking forward to it!
Thanks!
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Also, if you buy the hard copy, you get the PDF free. Just send me your Lulu receipt.
I hate to go back on my word here, but after looking at a lot of other PDF/Print sales models, this might be undercutting myself a bit too much. o_o
So in lieu of this, I will try to go through Lulu and offer some kind of discount to folks who buy both versions. If you send me one receipt or the other, I will see if I can send you a coupon for a cheaper version of the second format.
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Also, if you buy the hard copy, you get the PDF free. Just send me your Lulu receipt.
Wow, thanks a lot for the kind gesture, Scott.
I wouldn't mind paying for both though.
Btw, is there a reason the paperback is only send from the us and the coil binding from anywhere?
Greetings,
Zeebeest.
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Btw, is there a reason the paperback is only send from the us and the coil binding from anywhere?
I noticed that as well... I guess Lulu doesn't have the facilities outside the US?
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I noticed that as well... I guess Lulu doesn't have the facilities outside the US?
Normally they do. I bought a paperback version of ss4 from them a few years back. Besides all other books from Scott are available in paperback.
Greetings,
Zeebeest.
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Ordered my copy today. My custom dice arrived yesterday. :)
Looking forward to some Super Mission Force goodness!
Troll
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Awesome Scott!
Just ordered today
How do you want Lulu receipt sent to you for PDF version?
Looking forward to this!
Kim
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Awesome Scott!
Just ordered today
How do you want Lulu receipt sent to you for PDF version?
Looking forward to this!
Kim
Kim, just send me your Lulu receipt. Thanks!
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Just tried to order the paperback version on Lulu UK (not the softcover US delivery option) and apparently it "cannot deliver to that address". Anyone had this before?
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Once you guys get your books, please take a minute to go on Lulu and rate it if you're happy with what you got! ;)
Thanks!
P.S. I have multiple emails into Greg from Wargame Downloads, and he has not gotten back to me about getting the PDF up for sale.
If anyone knows of another outlet who might want to partner with me to sell the rules, let me know. I am confident Greg will get the rules loaded eventually, but another sales outlet might not be a bad idea.
Thanks!
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Just tried to order the paperback version on Lulu UK (not the softcover US delivery option) and apparently it "cannot deliver to that address". Anyone had this before?
I went over the settings and I am not seeing anything that would preclude someone in Europe ordering the coil binding version.
Weird.
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P.S. I have multiple emails into Greg from Wargame Downloads, and he has not gotten back to me about getting the PDF up for sale.
If anyone knows of another outlet who might want to partner with me to sell the rules, let me know. I am confident Greg will get the rules loaded eventually, but another sales outlet might not be a bad idea.
Thanks!
Honestly, I'm not a huge fan of Wargames Downloads. You get a single link that's only valid for like 24 hours to download it and no way to access a library of titles you've bought. I like to use Wargame Vault as it's pretty convenient, you can access your library at anytime and redownload the books if the author updates them (and your library is linked with their other sites like RPGNow). Obviously I don't know what the financial side of it is for you in terms of the cut Wargames Downloads takes versus Wargame Vault.
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I would agree with Cait that Wargames Vault has been a great online source. Have been getting products from them for a long time and they maintain a library of all my purchases.
Kim
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I echo the sentiments above.
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Ok, folks, I've just gone through Lulu and generated a PDF version of the rules for sale!
Here you go:
http://www.lulu.com/shop/scott-pyle/super-mission-force-electronic/ebook/product-23181548.html
Fire away!
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I went over the settings and I am not seeing anything that would preclude someone in Europe ordering the coil binding version.
Weird.
Sorted it. I hadn't verified my email, that was the issue.
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Folks, in casting about for spots to sell the PDF, I saw how most other companies sell their Print/PDFs. I can't in good conscience offer the PDF for free with print orders. It just undercuts myself too much on sales.
I can offer some kind of small rebate if folks buy both; I am thinking $2.00 back on the one or the other if you buy both.
I hope folks understand. :)
Most of the cash I make from this stuff I just plow back into more rules and stuff anyway!
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Folks, in casting about for spots to sell the PDF, I saw how most other companies sell their Print/PDFs. I can't in good conscience offer the PDF for free with print orders. It just undercuts myself too much on sales.
I can offer some kind of small rebate if folks buy both; I am thinking $2.00 back on the one or the other if you buy both.
I hope folks understand. :)
Most of the cash I make from this stuff I just plow back into more rules and stuff anyway!
Problem for us in Europe is, that the printed version will be very expansive with Postage and Custome Clearance. So it is better to buy the PDF and use a Printing Service over here in good old Europe
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Problem for us in Europe is, that the printed version will be very expansive with Postage and Custome Clearance. So it is better to buy the PDF and use a Printing Service over here in good old Europe
As I understand it, Lulu has Euro arms that handle this, so it is not an issue. Unless I am mistaken. Can someone else from Euro who has ordered chime in?
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As I understand it, Lulu has Euro arms that handle this, so it is not an issue. Unless I am mistaken. Can someone else from Euro who has ordered chime in?
That would be very interesting
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As I understand it, Lulu has Euro arms that handle this, so it is not an issue. Unless I am mistaken. Can someone else from Euro who has ordered chime in?
Hey guys,
I order from the dutch site yesterday (I live in Belgium) and I also ordered Supersystem 4 through that branch a when it came out. Never had any problem with postage (I use the normal postal option) or customs for that matter.
Lulu has printing offices in different countries, so just use the one nearest to you. Just click the flag at the top and change your shop of preference. There is a lulu in Germany, the UK, France...
Greetings,
Zeebeest.
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SMF PDF now up on Wargame Downloads!
http://www.wargamedownloads.com/item.php?item=1447&site=SP
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As I understand it, Lulu has Euro arms that handle this, so it is not an issue. Unless I am mistaken. Can someone else from Euro who has ordered chime in?
That would be very interesting
I've not ordered this particular book (yet :D ) but Lulu does have Euro departments:
(http://i.imgur.com/zGyWgn7.jpg)
Click on the small US flag, select Change Store and choose your preferred country from the options.
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Thank you Fiona, I will have a look
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You're welcome, hope it helps. :)
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You're welcome, hope it helps. :)
Thanks, Fiona!
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In response to earlier query: I live in uk, and ordered it Friday 12th for about £15. It arrived on the Tuesday. It was sent from a uk Lulu address, and postage was fairly normal/ minimal.
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Now for something different: I tried the Batman-Game from Knightgames in April on a Convention and was very dissapointed. Great Figures but poor rules. So I'm looking for the Stats of the Batman-Models for SMF. Did someone convert the Stats or is working on a convertion???
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So many ways to do Batman in SMF, but here's an easy one!
Batman
[Wildcard] Caped crusader
Move: 8"
Body: 6 Psyche: 6
Melee Attack: 4D[1] Melee Defense: 4D[2]
Ranged Attack: 3D Ranged Defense: 4D[1]
Psyche Attack: - Psyche Defense: 5D
Major Powers: none
Minor Powers: Gadgets, Iron Will, Melee Specialist, Super-Agility,
Backgrounds: High Society, Exploration
Notes: +1D on KO checks
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I'm loving what I see from the game so far and have been having fun making characters. I wondered though, is there a particular reason some archetypes can only access particular minor powers? I'm finding it a bit constricting so for my builds I have ignored that restriction, whilst still keeping the same number of powers. Will that break the system? I'm doing it for all figs so it's internally consistent, I just wondered if you thought particular combos would be unbalancing.
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I'm loving what I see from the game so far and have been having fun making characters. I wondered though, is there a particular reason some archetypes can only access particular minor powers? I'm finding it a bit constricting so for my builds I have ignored that restriction, whilst still keeping the same number of powers. Will that break the system? I'm doing it for all figs so it's internally consistent, I just wondered if you thought particular combos would be unbalancing.
First, thanks so much for getting the game and commenting!
On the power selections, I designed SMF for fast chargen, and I found limiting choice in the archetypes aided this, and in some weird way, was sort of freeing. Weird, I know, but if you don't have 40+ powers to agonize over, the process is really smooth.
That being said, I do not think there are any "broken" combos if you open it up completely. Min-max combos? Yes, probably. As long as what you're doing works for you and your crew, SMF will work for you.
Again, thanks, and keep playing!
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Would folks like a new thread featuring SMF write-ups of popular Marvel, DC, and other characters? Or should we just do it in this one?
Thanks for any opinions!
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Just started it off with Batman and I added Killer Croc
http://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=100873.msg1251543#msg1251543
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Just started it off with Batman and I added Killer Croc
http://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=100873.msg1251543#msg1251543
Killer Croc is missing in your Thread... :'(
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Killer Croc is missing in your Thread... :'(
Ahh...I put Killer Croc's stats but Bane's name! I'll fix it. Thanks for the heads up.
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Ah, here is the SMF discussion I have been looking for! By far my favorite set of super-hero rules.
-Will
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Now that SMF is out and we're making characters and playing the game, I would humbly ask that folks post about it in other forums, blogs, and on Facebook.
I have found the best marketing is the kind of guerilla, grassroots promotion we see from normal customers who dig a game or product.
If you have the time and inclination to share your SMF enthusiasm, please do! ;D
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Has anyone done any statistical tools on Excel or the like which can show average goals rolled from dice pools with/without rerolls? Could be a really useful toool when creating characters to make sure particular builds are as strong/tough as they should be. My stat-fu is pretty weak...
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Has anyone done any statistical tools on Excel or the like which can show average goals rolled from dice pools with/without rerolls? Could be a really useful toool when creating characters to make sure particular builds are as strong/tough as they should be. My stat-fu is pretty weak...
There's a chart in the back of the book with those numbers. ;)
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There's a chart in the back of the book with those numbers. ;)
Awesome! Thanks for that, you've thought of everything! Just wanted to check my Superman build was going to be tough enough. Was going to go with a similar build to my Invincible using Resistance and Armour to represent his invulnerability. Looks like he'll be a damn tough nut to crack unless the opponent can Enhance some teammates or use gadget rerolls or dispel judiciously. This system is ticking all the boxes for me so far, nice job!
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Awesome! Thanks for that, you've thought of everything! Just wanted to check my Superman build was going to be tough enough. Was going to go with a similar build to my Invincible using Resistance and Armour to represent his invulnerability. Looks like he'll be a damn tough nut to crack unless the opponent can Enhance some teammates or use gadget rerolls or dispel judiciously. This system is ticking all the boxes for me so far, nice job!
Thanks! Superman should be a badass!
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Has anyone done any statistical tools on Excel or the like which can show average goals rolled from dice pools with/without rerolls? Could be a really useful toool when creating characters to make sure particular builds are as strong/tough as they should be. My stat-fu is pretty weak...
Scott's kindly put that on p235 of the rule book :)
EDIT: Looks like I missed about three posts, sorry about that.
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Thanks! Superman should be a badass!
Speaking of Supes, I was contemplating making him a powerhouse Brick/Speedster. Am I right in reading that he can make multiple move-by attacks in a round until he fails an attack roll? Seems like with Super Strength this could be a bit brutal so I don't want him to be as egregious as that. Am I reading that right? I also think Flight and super speed is a bit much so I will probably house rule a 40" movement cap as I will only be playing on a 4x4 table.
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Speaking of Supes, I was contemplating making him a powerhouse Brick/Speedster. Am I right in reading that he can make multiple move-by attacks in a round until he fails an attack roll? Seems like with Super Strength this could be a bit brutal so I don't want him to be as egregious as that. Am I reading that right? I also think Flight and super speed is a bit much so I will probably house rule a 40" movement cap as I will only be playing on a 4x4 table.
Yes, that's how it works! It's a nasty combo, but one bad dice roll ends it.
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We got reviewed on RPG.net!
https://www.rpg.net/reviews/archive/17/17156.phtml
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A very decent review too.
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We got reviewed on RPG.net!
https://www.rpg.net/reviews/archive/17/17156.phtml
Just posted it to the Crossover Minis FB page :)
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We incorporated the errata from the initial run of SMF into a corrected 2nd printing. Most of it is very minor stuff. I slipped in one new feature on Power Blasts because we had room, and I clarified Vampire a bit. Those are the only significant changes.
Here is a link to download the errata:
https://app.box.com/s/0kaaqsyph1h63e3ymlxbaarqsxhccboy
The Lulu and Drivethru PDFs are currently updated, and I sent Greg from Wargame Downloads the doc a few minutes ago, so it may take him a day or so to update.
Thanks!
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Also, here's a link to the character sheets:
https://app.box.com/s/24o0q2ilnoox6y0cyvy1wc30bkpi1cez
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Here's a link to the SMF adventure I'll be running tomorrow for Free RPG Day!
https://app.box.com/s/00xqmivaxz6rwsixpj0vce0zs0nxbmau
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Here's a link to the SMF adventure I'll be running tomorrow for Free RPG Day!
https://app.box.com/s/00xqmivaxz6rwsixpj0vce0zs0nxbmau
Looks great! But Pittsburgh? Really, I wonder why ;).
Greetings,
Zeebeest
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Just got notification that my copy has been mailed by lulu, can't wait
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Thanks for the updates Scott!
I like your variable options for power blasts, though the 5” reduction in range in exchange for +1 Re-roll is not quite a fair trade off for Power Blast (major). You’re giving up 1/3rd your range for the Minor power (15 down to 10”), but giving up only 5” out of 30” for a +1 Re-roll with the Major power is a no-brainer! It would be more equitable to have the Major power also be reduced by 1/3rd from 30” down to 20”. This way you are getting a fair trade off with either of the power levels, and it is a tougher choice to make.
After getting back from vacation (including a great trip to Alaska!) I’m starting to get my game table set up for some SMF games. Spent some time going through the rules in preparation of character creation and had these additional thoughts:
The Mentalist Maneuver “Power Attack” gives you Re-rolls for your normal Mentalism attack, but if you chose Healing (major) it is of no value! I suggest it should read …add +2 Re-rolls to your normal Mentalism attack, OR Healing roll!
Speaking of Healing, seems there should be a Healing (minor) power for those with medical training/kits or even a character like Swamp Thing who has been known to heal wounds. This would be similar to the major and minor Enhance powers…
Healing (minor)
“You can heal yourself, or a character in melee contact with you. Roll 5D. Every two goals you score restores one lost box of Body damage (only). You cannot restore more damage boxes than your target began with. Your power also grants you +1D on any pre or post-battle Arcane or Science checks.”
I have several characters that I will use this with. It’s also a good one for a Sorcerers grimoire.
Also, it looks like the Street-Level Archetype is pretty viable and will be in use often. One limiting issue for their choice I think is they have no Archetype Maneuvers! Even Henchmen get the “Concentrated Fire” maneuver. I plan on giving my Street-Level Archetypes this:
Street Maneuvers
Street Fighter
You know all the tricks of a back alley gang fight! Add +1 Re-roll to your normal melee or ranged attacks! Recharge 2+
Street Smart
You have seen and heard everything in your neighborhood and add +1 Re-roll to any non-combat situations. This includes initiative, movement, objective, perception, but not KO checks. Recharge 2+
I think this gives the Street types some competitiveness, but not out of proportion.
One final thing, for a bit more diversity I’m going to have another Boost choice:
Armed
You’re armed with a Firearm and a Close Combat Weapon!
• You can make a 10” body based ranged attack (4D)
• Add +1 Re-roll to your melee attack rolls
These are from the street henchmen's equipment list. This allows me to get my Swashbuckling Pirate Brawler armed with a pistol and cutlass, and super agility into action!
Love the diversity and ease of character creation this game has!
Thanks Scott
Kim
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Kim, love the feedback! We'll consider that stuff for future updates and supplements, but we're going to roll with what we have for now. I am very happy with what we can do with SMF rules as written.
I will log your stuff for future considerations and inclusions.
Thanks!!!
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Free RPG Day SMF demo pics:
https://supermissionforce.tumblr.com/
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I have returned on the forum after significant time away (life), and discover THIS!!! Having played SS3 I was very impressed but I like my systems more easily accessible and not having to fiddle around with points hither and dither for an hour before I have my character. SMF looks like the PERFECT game I've been waiting for and looking forward to take it out for a spin. I will definitely purchase a printed copy from Lulu next week when payday comes around :).
Thank you.
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Thanks! Let us know what you think!
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Thanks! Let us know what you think!
I will indeed.