Lead Adventure Forum
Miniatures Adventure => Future Wars => Topic started by: Hobby Services on October 24, 2016, 05:42:00 PM
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Anyone here (preferably a Kickstarter backer who's had more time to look at it) got a quick review or just general opinion of the new game from Hawk Wargames? The minis look terrific (albeit rather intricately detailed) and the premise of a spaceship game that concetrates on delivering planetary assaults seems innovative, but I haven't seen/heard much about the final form of the rules yet. Thoughts?
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I'd gladly give you an opinion, but Hawk Wargames are a bunch of cunts and I don't have my pledge. My pledge is going to one of LGS that need to be restocked (yup those fuckers sent the product to retail before sending out the pledges to the backers, against previous promises, and now are restocking those that sold out) or being packed for Warfare, a gaming show in Reading UK on the 19th and 20th, because sales!
But I already paid a year ago so fuck me.
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I had a good chat with the Hawk Wargames guys at Crisis about the above issue, and things are a bit more nuanced than you seem to (be willing to) preceive.
Stores all want their stocks well in advance of Christmas, especially the bigger ones (think Amazon etc), so they demanded to receive the products well before. And whether you like it or not, a small company such as Hawk Wargames has no choice but to comply. However; it was agreed with all that the retail products would not be put up for sale until all pledges had been fulfilled.
And of course, this agreement was promptly broken by some of the larger stores, who saw demand and perceived no reason to adhere to said agreement. Apparently a gentleman's agreement only goes as far as the door... And when one online store started selling, all other stores had to follow, for fear of losing out on sales.
So; if you want to blame anyone for the fact that you had to take a box from your LGS to beat the arrival of your pledge, blame the store: as you so succinctly put it, 'because sales'.
FYI: at Crisis they only had their demo miniatures displayed and a mocked up empty box plus empty blisters, because there simply was nothing available. They did not sell Dropfleet, and the same staff that promoted the game are apparently also still waiting for their own pledges.
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Yes especially the restock. ::) What you are saying clashes with what I heard comes from stores. All in all a lie is a lie. No communication, shady practices. Also not keeping release date by the stores - that's complete bullshit. Any store would think twice before offering something that it should not. The lawsuits in such cases are ridiculous. So there was no agreement.
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+1. In the USA and I still have nothing. I am also not pleased that all of the battlemats I bought will be full of permanent creases as they decided to fold them rather than tube them, but perhaps I should have figured.
I'd gladly give you an opinion, but Hawk Wargames are a bunch of c***s and I don't have my pledge. My pledge is going to one of LGS that need to be restocked (yup those fuckers sent the product to retail before sending out the pledges to the backers, against previous promises, and now are restocking those that sold out) or being packed for Warfare, a gaming show in Reading UK on the 19th and 20th, because sales!
But I already paid a year ago so fuck me.
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Yes especially the restock. ::) What you are saying clashes with what I heard comes from stores. All in all a lie is a lie. No communication, shady practices. Also not keeping release date by the stores - that's complete bullshit. Any store would think twice before offering something that it should not. The lawsuits in such cases are ridiculous. So there was no agreement.
So, who's been lying? You seem pretty adamant about vilifying Hawk Wargames but you're just ranting without producing information. No company the size of Hawk Wargames is going to go and spend money on a lawsuit for something released a few weeks early. This isn't Sony or Disney you're dealing with.
On the no communication front, I assume you mean Hawk is not providing any email updates? What do you consider shady practices?
I feel the vitriol in a lot of these threads is comically high for toy soldiers. Maybe wind it in a little? Unless Hawk is full of criminals like some other companies you'll get your stuff - maybe a couple of weeks late. There are more important things to worry about.
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I really don't mind waiting. I backed many other Kickstarters and a delay is nothing new or bad. Withholding product to sell to someone else is. Not responding to any form of contact is. (Well what should they say - yes we're c****?)
And really it's not about the toy soldiers. I have both Conan (a year after initial date) and the Others (more than half of year after initial date) from the newest that arrived, not to mention 8+ kilograms of unpainted 15mm stuff to occupy me. It's about how they treat people. That's what's f**** up.
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I'm the operations manager for a relatively well known independent fashion store - on the surface very different, but not really and Daeothar'a post sounds fully feasible.
Also not keeping release date by the stores - that's complete bullshit. Any store would think twice before offering something that it should not.
Nonsense. If you're scared of losing your account/souring a relationship you abide by the rules (brands that tend to have lots of launch dates tend to monitor and police this), otherwise you do what you want/need to as a retailer. No retailer will be scared of Hawk Wargames, they're not in the position of power in this scenario. I'm guessing the retailers want to sell through a high demand item before inevitable Black Friday discounts to preserve margin, so are launching it.
Not receiving your pledge is pretty crap, and frustrating, but save the c-bombs for someone who deserves it eh? Independent business aren't easy, and these guys are trying to bring some pretty spaceships to market, not rob yer nan.
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I have no skin in this game as it were since I don't play DZC or DFC, but I worked at a FLGS for over 6 years and I agree, you only follow street dates if you face some kind of repercussion. WotC is big enough and serious enough about street dates that you don't dare sell early as they WILL pull their support, and tournament support for magic: the Gathering is how most shops stay in business. It's certainly how ours did when I worked there. We bought all WotC product from a 3rd part distributor (Alliance Games, mostly) and product would arrive early so you could have it out on shelves the moment you opened your doors on release day, but all the tournament support comes directly from WotC and they WILL blacklist you for selling before that date. They also have enough pull with distributors that the distributors will stop shipping you product early if you get caught selling before the street date since THEY don't want to get in trouble with WotC. Indeed midnight releases are common for shops with large M:TG crowds.
But that was WotC, and D&D and especially Magic:TG are HUGE in the industry. The other guys, nobody cared. Games Workshop is of course the big dog for miniatures and their street dates are always on a saturday. We usually received orders on a thursday or friday and would put it right out on the shelves, never mattered. IF a GW rep happened to make one of their once-in-a-6-month check-ins and you had new product out early you'd get a dissapointed "hey, don't sell those till saturday, please?" and that was it. They didn't even make you to take the stuff down, just an "oh yeah, sorry" and they were off. And we were buying directly from GW, not through distributors and getting what little tournament support they offered at the time. And if a company was even smaller than GW? You didn't bother waiting even if you realized there WAS a street date, if it's in stock it's on the shelf. There is no amount of backlash that Hawk Wargames could possibly pull to concern a shop, not unless they can take away something tangible like tournament support. Not unless they pull enough weight to delay product shipments. Hawk isn't big enough to carry that weight. Heck, even Privateer Press is only now getting big enough that they could pull something like they did with online retailers this summer.
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"these guys are trying to bring some pretty spaceships to market, not rob yer nan."
Yeah. I'm sure they'll fill all the back orders eventually. But the key there is the latter word; the eventualness.
It's not like Kickstarters have ever just failed to deliver at all after long cycles of letting people down...
The backers aren't people who've ordered stuff for delivery whenever the seller can't find another buyer -- they ordered and PAID for it to be delivered by a date.
They have a legitimate expectation of best effort satisfaction.
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They didn't order and pay for delivery date really though. They invested in a project, with a projection of goods and delivery. I agree that not receiving the goods before they hit retail must be frustrating, but I was really trying finback Elbows and Daeothar up - much more nuanced than people are giving credit for.
I for one hope that they're not suffering from an overly successful kickstarter and it all comes good for them... it can't be fun when it's not going quite to plan.
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People who were shafted on the KS (or at least perceive themselves as shafted) have my sympathy, but I was looking for opinions on the game itself and the minis that come with it, not trying to start a debate about the manufacturer's business practices. It's certainly out in some stores and online in limited amounts, and I assume someone here is playing it by now.
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Their FAQ:
I’ve backed other Kickstarters and I’ve still yet to receive my goods, in some cases when the game is in the shops to buy! What stops this happening again?
We’re committed to this not happening. As far as is humanly possible we will confirm that each backer has their rewards before the game hits stores, with some time difference between the two delivery dates.
Like not sending to retail and then sending the re-stock to retail before sending stuff to the backers?
So yeah we did pay for the project on the terms given. That was one of them. As I said I have no quarrel with getting stuff late, just being lied to.
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Apparently it wasn't humanly possible then?
You want them to damage their buseness contacts and their company?
They can't afford that.
It's their first kickstarter so it's only to be expected that not everything turns out as planned.
If you do not get your stuff or if it is not of a decent quality you will have my sympathy, otherwise..... that's kickstarter.
Now to the questions of the OP.
While I have not played the game, there are some play throughs on Beast of war. Personally, I thought it looked like loads of fun.
I'm definitly planning on getting this game at some point. I do play Dropzone Commander and it's a great game with great mini's (I don't even mind their resin). Love the fluff as well.
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I am always a little surprised by how swiftly many people will assume bad intent in others. For my part, I think I will wait a little longer before assuming Hawk Wargames is pulling a Prodos on this KS. By all accounts they are an honoroble company and in the process of delivering the KS to backers, but were overtaken by the timing.
As a small business owner myself, I also appreciate Hawk wargames position here. Sometimes you simply are obliged by reality to go back on your word, galling as it is, because of the bigger picture. The timing for Christmas sales is the key. I am sure that if this was in the spring, or even summer, Hawk would have waited with retail as they said. If they had chosen to postpone retail launch, I am sure they would have lost a great deal of retail sales never to get them back. And in the grand scheme of things, it really should not matter as long as they deliver the KS in a timely manner going forward from this point.
I also have worked at a games store, and agree with the stock on shelf principle being in effect, as stated by several other posters. Only the very big fish get to dictate any kind of date, terms, or even price points. The first shop to start selling releases the flood, because everyone will have to join in to not miss out on the sales.
Also, I think it is only counts as "lies" if they are stating falsehoods with intent to decieve. I don't belive (yet) that this is the case. IMHO Hawk seems to be one of the companies with the most integrity around. I think it rather more plausible that they simply have been overtaken by the timing and the huge effort it is to get such an amount of packages shipped, and were obliged by reality to get the retail shipments out.
Note that it takes comparatively less effort to ship for retail than to backers. Dave is on record saying that the actual physical product to be shipped to backers is present in the warehouse and that these are seperate from what gets shipped to retail, so they are not really selling "my" reward off instead of sending to me.
...But time will tell. If most packages still have not been received by backers in the course of the next couple months, then we can cry shenanigans. For the time being I will choose not to assume Hawk are lying c**nts, as was so eloquently put in an earlier post.
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Ahoy!
I watched two of my friends playing the introductory mission from the UCM vs Scourge starter set. I also played the same mission with the UCM side.
We generally liked the rules. The use of activation cards is really good for unit activation. You really need to think ahead as well as guessing your opponent's activation sequence. The only thing that bothers me about this, is the fact that losing ships from a battlegroup doesn't lover the battlegroups command value.
There is also a lot to think about what to do with an activated battlegroup. The different orders have different movement restrictions and also affect a ships "visibility" and how many weapons you could fire.
The mission was interesting and there was three way to score VP, so you have some options. On the other hand I lost my two carrier early (moved them forward too much) and couldn't shoot down my opponent's carriers. That meant I couldn't win the game. Another thing I didn't liked about the starter fleets and the introductory mission is if a ship goes down to atmospheric level it's very hard to damage it. If you don't mess up as I did than it's hard to lose the carriers.
As for the fleets they are felt mostly balanced, both having strengths and weaknesses. One thing though. I felt that the UCM Seattle class fleet carrier is not worth much in this fleet composition, in that particular mission compared to the Scourge Wyvern class ship.
Obviously we need to play more and try out more ships and missions but as I said we liked the game. There are some issues with the rules (like there is nothing in it about what happens if a ship leaves the table and the fleet building rules has a contradiction) but those probably can be FAQed as soon as the makers have time for that.
Oh, one more thing. They probably thought the bases were a good idea in theory but they are really not good in actual gameplay. It's really easy to knock aside the ships while trying to move the dial or moving the wound marker pin. And the slits on it for the status and orbital indicators are too small to see from beside the table. And to just top things of some of the colours doesn't even line up properly...
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Thank you. That's the kind of thing I was after. Nice balanced play review.
FWIW, I believe there are ships in the pipeline (corvettes, maybe?) that are specialized at hunting targets in the atmosphere, so the issue with small troop carriers ducking into the soup and being nearly invulnerable may correct itself then.
The complaint about the bases seems widespread. Reminds me of those stupid shield tracker wheels on the old Adeptus Titanicus figs - good in theory, lousy in practice. Makes me think I'll either magnetize mine or do SCN Dean's barrel-clasp trick so that I can swap to conventional flight bases if they turn out to be intolerable. Still be a while till I have to make a decision, although I did take a plunge on a box today.
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On the KS front: the entire point of the KS is to help fund a new and successful product line. That this is done via (effectively) a pre-order system lulls people into thinking that they are pre-orders.
Whilst is it disappointing that Hawk were unable to fulfil all their KS backers' orders before the retail stuff hit the shelves, at least the mismatch isn't as bad as other games/projects have been. And, again, I think it's worth noting that sabotaging the successful launch of the game just so that the KS backers get their toys first does rather go against the idea of helping to make the project a reality in the first place.
That's pretty much all I'll say on that front.
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Review-wise, I only got my KS copy on Friday, and I was then away for the whole weekend; therefore, I can really only offer initial impressions at this time.
The models are lovely. As in, they look every bit as good as I expected them to from the KS promo shots. They come on the sturdiest-looking miniature sprues I have ever seen (!), and are in a very light grey plastic. The instructions are straight-forward enough, and unless you plan to build lots of certain very specialised ships, each sprue can build whatever class of ship in that category that you want. A very small number do require parts from two kits however (for example, the UCM St Petersburg Heavy Cruiser requires two of the huge laser cannons), but it's also very unlikely that you won't have a few suitable parts spare if you build even a modest fleet.
The KS-Exclusive cruisers look great, and consist of resin add-ons to a plastic sprue. There are no instructions (that I could find), but when you use the instructions for the main cruisers in conjunction with the KS pictures, it's quickly apparent how they go together. They also count as variant ships of a class, so not only does that mean that you don't need to worry about needing extra/special rules sheets for them, but it also means that if you missed out you only missed out on the model and not a part of the gameplay. Besides that, enterprising converters ought to be able to convert their own versions of these LE ships (and I'm looking forward to seeing these - hopefully!)
Sales-wise, the game is structured around each side having a starter fleet, a couple of cruiser boxes, a frigate box, and a "big" ship. This means that you can expect 4-6 Cruisers, 8-10 frigates, and a battleship typically, with the remaining ships from those boxes (1-3 Cruisers, and 2-4 Frigates) being used to make different ships that you can swap out between lists. If you were trying to be as frugal as possible, you can squeeze by with two starter fleets boxes (6 Cruisers plus 8 Frigates).
I should note here that a single 7-model starter fleet is absolutely fine for learning the game rules with. However, I don't think it contains enough stuff for a proper feel of the gameplay/tactics though. This shouldn't be a surprise, but I feel it's still worth mentioning. Therefore, I suggest assuming a minimum buy-in of around £90 per player to actually make a realistic fleet - that's a rulebook and two starter fleet boxes. If two players happen to want one of the two-player starter set fleets, then buying a set each and swapping the models with each other is clearly the best value option.
Gameplay looks pretty straightforward rules-wise (anyone familiar with BFG will feel sudden pangs of nostalgia!), and there are quite a few tactics and features to get to grips with. Unlike BFG, main weapons in DFC are unlimited in range, but the ability to target is limited instead. To help mix things up a bit more, every faction has at least one support Frigate that assists in a more non-com way - providing ECM, better shields, enhanced scanning, etc. This means that even though the game is played on a fairly small sized area for a "space ship game", you still get a good sense of cat-and-mouse tactics at play. It also means that the game feels a lot more "modern" in style as it's not just about lining up broadsides to fire at the opponent - in fact, trying this without some planning first lights up your fleet like a Christmas tree to every enemy on the board, and the counter-fire may well see off a few of your ships! So despite the familiar feel of the game to BFG, the emphasis and playstyle are different.
Factions are each quite distinct too:
PHR is the closest DFC comes to "Age of Sail" style tactics, and in fact a number of their ships' weapon systems are set up specifically to assist this.
The Shaltari are quite fast and nimble, and have fairly precise weapons (including a cool gravity-altering weapon that allows you to veer enemy ships from their preferred courses/positions). They are the most unusual faction too as they use a gates-and-teleporter system to get their troops onto planets rather than the bulk landers other races have.
UCM is the generalist faction, but still has some cool features of their own. In particular, a good few of their ships feature colossal laser cannons with the Burnthrough rule - effectively allowing you to slice enemy ships in half if you can sustain a string of dice rolls long enough! Whilst other ships in the game also have lasers and such, the UCM ones have the biggest damage cap before they overheat, which is what (potentially) allows them to do such spectacular damage from time to time.
Finally, the Scourge are perhaps the most numerous of the fleets. By numerous, I mean that they would typically expect to have a couple more models than the opposing fleet. From what I can see, they are utterly lethal - but mostly at close-in weapons range. Their weapons also often feature a rule called "Scald" which reduces the target ship's armour value, and when combined with the sheer power of their weapons, this is a very brutal rule.
Of course, each faction also features weapons, equipment, and other rules that help to add flavour to them.
The game also contains some campaign suggestions/methods, which look rather fun.
Other thoughts, bearing in mind that this is based on my KS stuff:
- I got two fleet assets sets. I would strongly suggest one set per fleet, and two if your list has ships which launch a lot of stuff. As it is, I will be looking to acquire two more sets.
- The maps are all folded down to A4 size, as advertised. A shame, as the creases both spoil the look, and are hard to flatten out. If you are starting out, I would see if you can find a nice aerial picture of an alien planet and have that custom-printed to a 4x4' mousemat instead. Yes, it will cost a bit more, but it will also give you a *much* better playing surface.
- I didn't get any planet-side city models. If I'm honest, I don't regret this, as I think it looks a bit odd to have them placed on the planet map - it's like they are icons/representations rather than the aerial-view look that the tokens have, and I find that a bit visually-jarring.
- You get a copy of all the tokens (and planet-side city tokens) in the back of the rulebook. Scan or photocopy these and stick them onto firm card if you don't get the base game. It's no biggie, and I am personally glad that they are available on the back of the rulebook.
- I would look to get a space station kit. You can make a lot of different stations (at the same time, not either-or) all from one kit, and these are useful for a number of the scenarios.
- I cannot comment on the practicality of the ship bases (yet). My initial impressions are that they were aiming for a Clix/SW Armada style tracking system, but that this is not always very compatible with large and delicate painted miniatures. I have seen a few fans who've made some ship cards that you can print out and sleeve - and they have trackers on them that you can mark altitude and damage on with a dry-wipe pen. Although not as tidy as the bases, I can see this system being both easier to use and be a handy aide-memoire for the ships' features/rules.
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Interesting and pretty comprehensive, thanks. Good to have an idea what expected fleets sizes are likely to be. I wonder if we'll see a two-player set with PHR and Shaltari at some point, or if UCM and Scourge will always be a little cheaper to get ahold of (assuming you need both fleets, or can swap one set for another with a friend). Then again, aren't they the two cheapest factions point-wise? Appropriate if so. :)
I am a longstanding BFG veteran and yes, I can see a lot of similarities, for ex the "burn-through" mechanic lifted straight from Eldar pulsar lances. Looks like Chambers learned from past experience though, there's a hard cap on carriers and a lot less "crap on the map" aside from the planetary stuff.
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I like the PHR(?) ships so much I considered getting the game, and I've never been a big fleet-battle fan. I think the models and versatility put every other fleet game to shame. The space station/outpost kit looks freakin' awesome as well. Not a fan of clicky bases, but I could get over it.
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I like the PHR(?) ships so much I considered getting the game, and I've never been a big fleet-battle fan. I think the models and versatility put every other fleet game to shame. The space station/outpost kit looks freakin' awesome as well. Not a fan of clicky bases, but I could get over it.
There's no particular reason you have to use the bases, everything they accomplish can be done with counters and record cards instead, and possibly better. Best bet may be to either magnetize the bases or do the jewelry barrel clasp thing so you can swamp to and from the actual DzC bases depending on what game you're playing.
The figures do look amazing, and the modularity is a big selling point. There's not a single fleet I don't like the look of, although the UCM might look better with shorter barrels on the turrets. Good thing Studio Bergstrom makes a plethora of metal turrets, eh?
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The UCM turret gun barrels can just be trimmed shorter if you like - they are plastic afterall. Failing that, you can just cut the barrels off completely and use some brass rod/tube to make your own and pin them into the turrets instead. A bit fiddly, but easy enough.
As for the bases... I think (looking at them) that they are designed to have a receiver that glues into the ship, and the the base stem then clips into the receiver. So really, as long as you have a similar stem on a base, you can use any base you like (although I'd keep the same base diameters/arc markings too, as these are needed for gameplay). I dare say that you could even magnetise the stem and receiver arrangement too if you're keen.
As for there being a second starter set... I think not. At least, going by Dropzone Commander anyway. At least there are plastic starters for all four main factions, and the rulebook is up for sale in most online places for ~£15, which is very good value. 8)
@ Elbows:
A rulebook and starter fleet box can be had online for ~£50. That's more than enough to dip your toes in and muck about with some frankly beautiful models. If you like it - great! If you don't like it - it's not a big investment and I suspect it'd be easy enough to recoup your outlay via ebay/trade or whatever. ;)
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Yep, I'm just hesitating because I have no one to game with here, and if I go into a project it'll end up being all-in. That means a huge neoprene gaming mat, colour-matched dice, etc. etc. :D
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Yep, I'm just hesitating because I have no one to game with here, and if I go into a project it'll end up being all-in. That means a huge neoprene gaming mat, colour-matched dice, etc. etc. :D
Well, you could always use the minis and the orbital-view map for other starship games if desired, which opens up a whole slew of possibilities. Nothing saying you can't fight Full Thrust or A Sky Full of Ships battles in orbit, after all. Cribbing a modified version of the altitude rules for other games might be a good idea even. So you could look at even a steep plunge on DzC as a multi-game investment, right?
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@ Elbows:
I like your style! lol
@ Hobby Services:
Yes, exactly.
...At least, that's what I told myself! ;D
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I'll be honest, I'm just trying to avoid the "new, shiny" syndrome. I haven't played many fleet battles, and I hated Battlefleet Gothic when I played it. In all likelihood I wouldn't even enjoy this --- the models are so cool though. lol I'm sure this will pass eventually.
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I'll be honest, I'm just trying to avoid the "new, shiny" syndrome. I haven't played many fleet battles, and I hated Battlefleet Gothic when I played it. In all likelihood I wouldn't even enjoy this --- the models are so cool though. lol I'm sure this will pass eventually.
From what I've seen of the game you're probably correct. If you hated BFG there are enough similarities that you probably wouldn't like DzC, although I guess it would depend on why the hate was there. Some of the worst elements of BFG are gone - random leadership rolls required to go on special orders, for ex, and there's less need to reference charts during play, plus it sounds like achieving crushing dominance through carrier tactics is impossible - but it's still not a "realistic" space combat sim ala Squadron Strike, if that's what you're into.
Of course, you could just buy the shiny new models for other games. They're not exactly back-breakingly expensive for their size and quality.
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Yeah, if it was the "feel" of the rules, then I'm not sure you'll like DFC much better than BFG.
However, if it was the Age of Sail style gameplay that ticked you off, then you may in fact enjoy DFC afterall (although I note that the faction you like -PHR- basically uses Age of Sale tactics as their faction's "feature" style of combat).
Otherwise... Yeah, pretty ships! ;)
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My rulebook is on the way, and this thread has just got me excited about the game all over again !
The Scourge are the only ships I'm luke-warm on, I could easily paint fleets for all three of the other races, I just need to find some opponents now.
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Now that the game has been out for a while, what are peoples experiences? Are the factions balanced? How is the support from Hawk?
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Now that the game has been out for a while, what are peoples experiences?
I played 8 games.
I like the game mechanics, some unique ideas I have not seen in other spaceship games. Imho the game has great potential.
Are the factions balanced?
I have not enough games under my belt to answer the question. But for Dropzone Commander Hawk had an open ear to players and fixed balance issues.
How is the support from Hawk?
Here comes the salt ...
9 months ago I sent Hawk an e-mail to get replacements for some Dropzone Commander miscasts.... I'm still waiting.
I'm still waiting for my Kickstarter pledge. I can consider myself lucky - I got an answer to my last e-mail(Jan.15). I set them Feb. 1. as deadline.
Hawk wrote, they will send my stuff "as soon as possible".
I'm patiently waiting for my stuff till Feb. 1.
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Now that the game has been out for a while, what are peoples experiences?
I've been painting far more than playing, but I'm quite impressed with most of the minis and the rules are good. Not great, but good. The basic game mechanics work well and the pacing seems okay, albeit perhaps a bit too bloody and fast for my tastes. Greatest weaknesses IMO are that movement is rather unimaginative since almost all ships maneuver similarly and has barely a nod to it being actual space combat (ie no real inertia, no rolling or flipping ships, etc), and the scenarios are all exceeding similar. They play fine, but they're all perfectly symmetrical and are clearly designed to be tournament-friendly. That's really silly considering this game is about planetary invasions where one would reasonably expect attacker and defender to have very different forces and setups. If nothing else, why aren't the defenders (not always the Scourge despite this being the Reconquest) allowed some starting troops on the ground?
That said, DfC clearly has potential for expansion and refinement, and none of its flaws are severe enough to require a hasty second edition. It doesn't do anything except the planetary invasion/orbital combat and lacks any kind of ship customization/building rules so it's no Full Thrust/Starmada/A Sky Full of Ships/etc, but what it does try to do it does well.
As far as painting figs for resale goes they've been a gold mine for me, so I've got financial reasons to like the game.
Are the factions balanced?
Within the context of the existing scenarios, probably. Looking at the community on the Hawk forums and other online sites there's quite a bit of pessimism about PHR being undergunned, but I don't see it. They're insanely tough, and offensive combat effectiveness is not as vital in this game as in most. You win by getting victory points on turns 4 and 6, and the only ways to do that are to get troops on the ground (or space paltforms) and crowding living ships around critical locations. Blowing up the enemy is something you're doing solely to limit their ability to do those things better than you.
I suspect the Shaltari (and maybe PHR) may be broken if they build skew lists with maxed-out troop carrier choices and minimal combat ships, but haven't tested it enough yet to be sure. A lot of it comes down to their teleport tricks (or the combat effectiveness of the troopships in PHR) and I may be seeing a problem that doesn't exist.
How is the support from Hawk?
Terrible. They've shafted many of the KS backers, they're not answering questions with any kind of speed, and I've been waiting months to even register on their forums, leaving in lurker limbo. I know they're a small company and lack staff, but when I compare their performance to Privateer, Ground Zero, Rebel, either Brigade, Warlord, and other favorite companies they're barely at GW levels of helpful.
Also having some problems keeping up with demand from retailers, as the distribution net is on-and-off for stock. That probably ties to the KS problems, and should sort itself out eventually.
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Thank you folks. Your responses have been very helpful.
The miniatures look so darn good I may overlook the service issues and give it a shot.