Lead Adventure Forum
Miniatures Adventure => Fantasy Adventures => Topic started by: KJoelN on November 01, 2016, 05:33:46 AM
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Hi!
I’m looking for playtesters for a fantasy adventure/skirmish game with the working title
The venture - until the last torch.
(https://cf.geekdo-images.com/images/pic3239586.jpg)
The game can be played in several ways. You can play through the scenarios (one at the moment) that are included or make your own adventures or you can battle your friends in a skirmish. The game can be played either solo or with your friends.
Contents
- Rulebook
- Scenario booklet
- Character sheet
- 7 class cards
- 43 ability cards
- 42 Weapon/armor cards
- 25 Item cards
- 19 Monster cards
- 14 Terrain tiles
To play the game you will also need a set of dice (d6,d8,d10,d12) and some miniatures.
I need all the help I can get to balance the game and make it better. If you are up for it send me a PM and I will send you a link to the game..
Kind regards
Joel Landberg
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Pm'd!
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Hi again!
Seems like the pdf´s where protected from printing. Sorry about that. I have updated the pdf´s so now it should work fine. Please let me know if there are any problems.
Thanks
Joel
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Hi!
I still need more people play testing the game so if you´r up for it send me a note:). I have just got my first 3D print of a troll I made in Zbrush for the game. I intend to make a mold of it and cast some metal trolls soon. If you´r interested in getting a copy please let me know and I will see what I can do:).
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-qEN2sPQ60rM/WC4w3XcEfOI/AAAAAAAADOc/M3UnLILrhPIdpoPNGCH1UVaAhqtf_DFKACLcB/s1600/Troll.jpg)
Joel Landberg
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Ok, I've finally printed the rulebook and started reading through it.
First of all, the game look very professionally laid out, with kinda of old-school taste. I honestly think that if the gameplay meets the look, many people on LAF could appreciate the game.
Second thing, I've spotted quite a few typos or mispelled words. Since I'm not English native speaker, I'd ask to some British Gentleman to check it for me :)
I'll write more once I'll actually have read all the rules. Keep up the great work!
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The troll looks awesome! :0 can see me needing it in the not so distant future...
I'm reading through the rules at the moment, looks very promising!
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I'd be interested to take a look!
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Second thing, I've spotted quite a few typos or mispelled words. Since I'm not English native speaker, I'd ask to some British Gentleman to check it for me :)
I'll write more once I'll actually have read all the rules. Keep up the great work!
There are quite a lot typos, but Joel knows about that allready ;)
Had my first game last weekend and enjoyed it, will have the second today.
Like Gabbi said, I really love the artwork Joel did, very much old school, in the positive way :)
The whole look and the game itself reminds me a lot of old gamingbooks, which started the whole hobby for me (For Sommerlund :D )
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Ok, I've finally printed the rulebook and started reading through it.
First of all, the game look very professionally laid out, with kinda of old-school taste. I honestly think that if the gameplay meets the look, many people on LAF could appreciate the game.
Second thing, I've spotted quite a few typos or mispelled words. Since I'm not English native speaker, I'd ask to some British Gentleman to check it for me :)
I'll write more once I'll actually have read all the rules. Keep up the great work!
Thank you! I´ve drawn a lot of inspiration from old school fantasy for the artwork and gameplay.
I´m sorry about the typos I´m working on it :). Thank you for taking the time I really appreciate it!
The troll looks awesome! :0 can see me needing it in the not so distant future...
I'm reading through the rules at the moment, looks very promising!
Thank you! I´m working on a ranger in Zbrush as well. I will post it when it´s done:) Hope you will like the game!
There are quite a lot typos, but Joel knows about that allready ;)
Had my first game last weekend and enjoyed it, will have the second today.
Like Gabbi said, I really love the artwork Joel did, very much old school, in the positive way :)
The whole look and the game itself reminds me a lot of old gamingbooks, which started the whole hobby for me (For Sommerlund :D )
Thank you! I got some really good input from you sofar:) I love those old gamingbooks!
Thank you to for taking the time I really appreciate it!
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My first impressions are more or less what the others have written, fantastic old school vibe. The rules so far seem to be a nice balance of crunchy and lean, to get play going quickly but with some feel to it. You already know about the typos... :D. There are also a couple of odd phrases or in some cases, strange applications of a phrase. I'll go look when I get home and be more specific.
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My first impressions are more or less what the others have written, fantastic old school vibe. The rules so far seem to be a nice balance of crunchy and lean, to get play going quickly but with some feel to it. You already know about the typos... :D. There are also a couple of odd phrases or in some cases, strange applications of a phrase. I'll go look when I get home and be more specific.
Thank you! I'm glad you like the vibe:) It's what we in Sweden call swenglish;) I have had a hard time expressing phrases in english and some times I have chosen to write them like I would write them in Swedish just to have it written down. I know now that I'm in great need of assistance so if someone is up for it I would be extremly greatfull:)
Joel
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Read the rules quickly now and I really like what I see! Me and 4 mates will be playing the first scenario next Thursday. They don't really have a clue what they're going to play. They just know it's an 'oldskool dungeon crawler', so that's going to be fun!
I've got a question: why the difference between Defend and Evade? Defend can be used in melee and against shooting (if equipped with a shield). Evade is a dodge with a 1 square move. Why not 1 stat for these?
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I play in 10mm, but I'd love to give the rules a turn with my son!
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Read the rules quickly now and I really like what I see! Me and 4 mates will be playing the first scenario next Thursday. They don't really have a clue what they're going to play. They just know it's an 'oldskool dungeon crawler', so that's going to be fun!
I've got a question: why the difference between Defend and Evade? Defend can be used in melee and against shooting (if equipped with a shield). Evade is a dodge with a 1 square move. Why not 1 stat for these?
Thank you! Sounds great I will be looking forward to hear from you and your friends :)
When I made the two stats I wanted a diffrence how classes behave between the heavier classes like Knight, barbarian and warrior and light classes like ranger, thief, mage. I also wanted the ranged classes to have a edge towards heavy melee classes like the Knight, barbarian, warrior by giving the heavier classes a weaker evade value making them a easier targets for ranged weapons. And I wanted the lighter classes to have a disadvantage when they wanted to defend giving them a weaker defend value and making them vulnerable if cornered.
I´m not really sure about the roll of the shield yet so it would be great to hear from your playtests how it works for you.
Joel
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Thought as much :). Thanks for the insight!
Two more questions:
1. How long do torches last when lit?
2. Are there tables for the randomly appearing creatures and treasure chest available?
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Thought as much :). Thanks for the insight!
Two more questions:
1. How long do torches last when lit?
2. Are there tables for the randomly appearing creatures and treasure chest available?
As far as I know the tables should be there in the next update ;)
The table for "Critical Failure" is missing by now as well, for example.
Regarding torches I asked Joel if you could use it as weapon as well, because the troll takes double damage caused by fire ;)
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Okay, I will work something out for Thursday's game. I think I will take 6 of the items and use them as treasures for the chest in room 2.
And yes, Torches should be usuable as weapons...because it's cool 8) (and it would work together with the Double Strike! ability for even more epic action).
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Okay, I will work something out for Thursday's game. I think I will take 6 of the items and use them as treasures for the chest in room 2.
And yes, Torches should be usuable as weapons...because it's cool 8) (and it would work together with the Double Strike! ability for even more epic action).
When I played the first time I used the Health Potion, which should stand beside the chest, as treasure.
So you had to open the chest to get it.
And Double Strike using sword and torch would just be iconic for dungeon fighting :D
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I have the perfect Ranger lined up for that...
(http://www.armies-of-middle-earth.host-ed.me/images/m1251263_99061464012_ColLotRWeathertopAragornMain_445x319.jpg)
And I will include the healing potion too. But a bit of randomness is always cool! I will tweak the list of items a bit to make sure all are useful for the rest of the scenario.
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My ranger :D
(http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i149/eaodak/OWS%20Quantus%20the%20Ranger%2001_zpsodox0ijw.jpg) (http://s71.photobucket.com/user/eaodak/media/OWS%20Quantus%20the%20Ranger%2001_zpsodox0ijw.jpg.html)
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I have the perfect Ranger lined up for that...
(http://www.armies-of-middle-earth.host-ed.me/images/m1251263_99061464012_ColLotRWeathertopAragornMain_445x319.jpg)
And I will include the healing potion too. But a bit of randomness is always cool! I will tweak the list of items a bit to make sure all are useful for the rest of the scenario.
Aragorn is a nice choice.
I had to use quite some Health Potions in my first game, by the way.
Just saying ;)
My ranger :D
javascript:void(0);
(http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i149/eaodak/OWS%20Quantus%20the%20Ranger%2001_zpsodox0ijw.jpg) (http://s71.photobucket.com/user/eaodak/media/OWS%20Quantus%20the%20Ranger%2001_zpsodox0ijw.jpg.html)
I'm using the same :D
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Thought as much :). Thanks for the insight!
Two more questions:
1. How long do torches last when lit?
2. Are there tables for the randomly appearing creatures and treasure chest available?
Hi!
1. For now they last forever :) , I have not come up with a good system for this so I´m open for suggestions. I have put some thought into torches but I have not decided wich way to go yet. I want to have some kind of penalty for not having a character being equiped with at torch in a dark environment maby a -1 on all rolls or something like that. The torch will be usable as a weapon as suggested :) For now you can use the same dammage as a club and this counts as fire dammage.
2. They are on their way:) Hopefully I will be able to put it together during the end of this week including the critical failure (much better word:) chart
Awesome miniatures!
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Maybe give it an expiration roll? So a roll to check how long it lasts. Check each time you enter a new board tile. For instance: Burns on 3+. Each tile you enter, roll a D6. On a 1-2, the fire fizzles.
And another idea/suggestion:
In the Initiative phase, you first determine who goes first. Then for the bad guys you randomly the activation order. Now, Thursday I will be the "Dungeon Master" for the game and it would be great if I had some choice too ;). So I thought of the following:
1. Determine who activates first.
2. Both sides build their activation order. So the hero(es) determine the order of activation and the DM does the same. Place the hero and monster cards in the right order (so if the heroes go first it will be hero-monster-hero-monster-etc.) in a stack of cards.
3. One by one, activate the models. Flip one card at a time, so activation will remain interesting and surprising!
So each side only knows the order of activation of their models. Hopefully they read the other side's intentions well and anticipated in the right way.
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Maybe give it an expiration roll? So a roll to check how long it lasts. Check each time you enter a new board tile. For instance: Burns on 3+. Each tile you enter, roll a D6. On a 1-2, the fire fizzles.
I had the very sae idea!
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Maybe give it an expiration roll? So a roll to check how long it lasts. Check each time you enter a new board tile. For instance: Burns on 3+. Each tile you enter, roll a D6. On a 1-2, the fire fizzles.
And another idea/suggestion:
In the Initiative phase, you first determine who goes first. Then for the bad guys you randomly the activation order. Now, Thursday I will be the "Dungeon Master" for the game and it would be great if I had some choice too ;). So I thought of the following:
1. Determine who activates first.
2. Both sides build their activation order. So the hero(es) determine the order of activation and the DM does the same. Place the hero and monster cards in the right order (so if the heroes go first it will be hero-monster-hero-monster-etc.) in a stack of cards.
3. One by one, activate the models. Flip one card at a time, so activation will remain interesting and surprising!
So each side only knows the order of activation of their models. Hopefully they read the other side's intentions well and anticipated in the right way.
I like both ideas! It would be awesome if you could test this when you play and get back to me how it went. You count every room without a torch on the wall(If I'm not mistaken I described it in the scenario) as dark with a penalty of -1 on all rolls if not equiped with a torch on one of the heroes. Maby a torch should have a radius or is this to much to keep track of?
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I think that would make it a bit of a hassle. Having a torch light a board tile seems fast and cool, especially if parties split up somewhere (with scenarios that have tight timing for instance). With torches having the chance of fizzling I think it can add a bit of excitement. I also see nice ideas of creatures (or abilities) that get extra bonuses when fighting in the dark. For instance, a Goblin Sneak who gets Back Stab when fighting in the dark.
I'll test it all this Thursday!
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Radius would be too much hassle.
Creatures getting a + while fighting in the dark and getting a - fot fighting against someone holding a torch sounds cool though.
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(http://images.fineartamerica.com/images-medium-large-5/shelob-tom-carlton.jpg)
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Do you want grammar and style feedback? I can mark up the PDF like nobody's business.
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I like both ideas! It would be awesome if you could test this when you play and get back to me how it went. You count every room without a torch on the wall(If I'm not mistaken I described it in the scenario) as dark with a penalty of -1 on all rolls if not equiped with a torch on one of the heroes. Maby a torch should have a radius or is this to much to keep track of?
Like the others said, radius would be to much, and I'm pretty sure you forgot to mention that -1 penalty in darkness ;)
Will test the torch-rules as well then.
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Do you want grammar and style feedback? I can mark up the PDF like nobody's business.
Yes that would be great thank you!
I think that would make it a bit of a hassle. Having a torch light a board tile seems fast and cool, especially if parties split up somewhere (with scenarios that have tight timing for instance). With torches having the chance of fizzling I think it can add a bit of excitement. I also see nice ideas of creatures (or abilities) that get extra bonuses when fighting in the dark. For instance, a Goblin Sneak who gets Back Stab when fighting in the dark.
I'll test it all this Thursday!
Ok sounds good. I think I will add info about if a room is dark and gives penalty in the scenario. I need to think about this , it has to stay simple and manageable. As I'm thinking now monsters are unaffected by darkness but it would be cool if some monsters fight better in darkness. Nice picture!
Like the others said, radius would be to much, and I'm pretty sure you forgot to mention that -1 penalty in darkness ;)
Will test the torch-rules as well then.
Yes you are right my mistake:) All characters get -1 on all their rolls when fighting in darkness. As long as there is one character equiped with a torch in the room no penalty.
I need to establish a to do list that I can share with you playtesters so I don't forget stuff and you can check on me:) Right now I'm working on a new scenario but I will try to dedicate one night a week to check things off this to do list.
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I need to establish a to do list that I can share with you playtesters so I don't forget stuff and you can check on me:) Right now I'm working on a new scenario but I will try to dedicate one night a week to check things off this to do list.
Kjempe god idé, Joel :)
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Kjempe god idé, Joel :)
Gott:)
I have added a to do list and the charts for critical failure and the camping chart to the dropbox folder. I´m not sure about the camping chart yet. Maby I have to add some rules depending of how many heroes that are used. But on the other hand larger groups have to use more actions to heal each other and thus are more likely to encounter enemies (they do tend to make more noise)
Please let me know what you think
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Checked it out, looks nice. A textual suggestion for the first chart:
The attacker drops his weapon on an adjacent square. Roll a D8 to determine where, with the 1 being the attacker's facing. Count clockwise to determine the location. Anyone standing on the weapon may pick it up by performing a successful focus action.
Option 6 sounds really harsh, especially if you are armed with an armour piercing weapon of doom. Maybe make this half damage?
And in the Camping chart, I don't see an option of encountering only the Hard monster. It's always M+H. Maybe add just a H option?
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Checked it out, looks nice. A textual suggestion for the first chart:
The attacker drops his weapon on an adjacent square. Roll a D8 to determine where, with the 1 being the attacker's facing. Count clockwise to determine the location. Anyone standing on the weapon may pick it up by performing a successful focus action.
Option 6 sounds really harsh, especially if you are armed with an armour piercing weapon of doom. Maybe make this half damage?
And in the Camping chart, I don't see an option of encountering only the Hard monster. It's always M+H. Maybe add just a H option?
Option 6 really sounds harsh, but so is life ;)
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Checked it out, looks nice. A textual suggestion for the first chart:
The attacker drops his weapon on an adjacent square. Roll a D8 to determine where, with the 1 being the attacker's facing. Count clockwise to determine the location. Anyone standing on the weapon may pick it up by performing a successful focus action.
Option 6 sounds really harsh, especially if you are armed with an armour piercing weapon of doom. Maybe make this half damage?
And in the Camping chart, I don't see an option of encountering only the Hard monster. It's always M+H. Maybe add just a H option?
Thank you for your input. Thats better I'll edit that.
Ok lets say half damage rounded up:)
I'll take a look at the camping chart
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We played our first game yesterday…here are some shots:
(http://paintoholic.nl/temp/venture1.jpg)
The door opens…
(http://paintoholic.nl/temp/venture2.jpg)
And the Orc charges in! He battles with the heroes and gets cut down. He did manage to inflict some nasty wounds.
(http://paintoholic.nl/temp/venture3.jpg)
The goblins also dance with the heroes, but also get killed. The heroes pause for a while to heal their wounds, but this attracts an Orc and a Goblin!
(http://paintoholic.nl/temp/venture4.jpg)
The heroes manage to take them out, but they still are beat up. The Barbarian hacks the lock to bits and kicks open the door.
(http://paintoholic.nl/temp/venture5.jpg)
The ranger fumbles with the chest’s lock, so the Barbarian moves in again and takes the lock apart with his Battle Axe. Inside they find a healing potion and a ring of resurrection.
(http://paintoholic.nl/temp/venture6.jpg)
They open the door and the cleric and ranger get hit by the arrow trap. The Barbarian manages to raise his shield in time. The heroes move for the door on their left and once again the Barbarian unleashes his hate on the lock.
The Goblin shaman and his cronies! The heroes prepare for the last fight…
(http://paintoholic.nl/temp/venture7.jpg)
And it indeed is their last fight as they get cut down by the dreadful Orcs. RIP…
Fun game! I’ve used my old Heroquest miniatures on purpose, to get that nostalgic feel :D. Thoughts on the game in the next post.
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I told you about the Health Potions, didn't I? ;)
Great looking setup, by the way.
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By the way, how did they heal their wounds in the "Camping" phase?
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@Comsquare: The Cleric did Mend Wounds…over and over again.
Okay, what did we think of the game?
Things we liked:
1) In general it was fun! It had the oldskool feel and the mechanics were easy to follow and players could start fast.
2) We REALLY liked the equipment and ability cards. They really help making a personal character and no 2 rangers have to be the same. Just pick different equipment and abilities and you have different characters. Really nice.
3) The items are nice and work well (well, the healing potion is a tricky one, needing a focus action).
4) Critical hits and failures are cool and don’t happen too often.
5) The story in the scenario is great. It has good atmosphere, is moody and spooky and helps to get that RPG feeling. Really nice.
Things we disliked:
1) Combats involve a lot of dice rolling. Because characters can defend/evade around 50% of the attacks miss. And most creatures require 2-3 hits to go down. So that takes quite some time. In the end we weren’t the biggest fan of Defend/Evade as it mainly slowed down the pace. Sometimes we had a full combat round without anything happening due to good Defend/Evade rolls. That felt a bit boring now and then.
It also removed the fun of critical hits. A player would roll a 6 and then another successful roll and was stoked he got a critical hit! I then rolled a 5 and defended the critical hit. And the elation died.
2) Armour Penetration is too high. Armour often is pointless as most creatures had an Armour Penetration of 3-4+. So they would simply stab right through it. Or as a player said about armour: go high or go home. It’s only interesting once you get to Armour 6 or so.
3) The creatures are extremely strong! Especially the Orc was insane: Melee3+ with a Battle Axe and SB+4 meant he hacked into the heroes for so much damage they just couldn’t withstand them. Even the goblins are painful with their relatively good stats and high damage spear.
4) It felt a bit off you could strip the creatures of all of their equipment and move around like a pack mule. The Ranger took the Goblin’s leather armour and then donned it. That was a bit weird. And it felt like buying Armour from the start was pointless. Just kill a creature and take its armour. Cheaper and more effective.
5) Camping is a bit tricky. The heroes really needed to heal (but with Mend Wounds that went very slowly due to the 50% chance of getting the spell off). So first they needed 8 actions to get them patched up enough to get going. The camping brought along another Orc and Goblin and they again got hit hard. We then ruled that Camping wouldn’t trigger again and they needed *14 actions* to get going again.
6) Having the ability to destroy all locks with bashing is a bit too easy. Now they simply evaded the Troll by bashing in the door.
Suggestions:
1) Make Defend/Evade a passive modifier to attack. This way it’s not another roll to be made. So for instance, an Orc has Defend/Evade -0 and a Goblin Defend/Evade -1. The Goblin would inflict a -1 modifier to the attack roll and the Orc doesn’t. The Orc is big and lumbering and can’t really defend…but has many hp to soak up the damage. The Goblin on the other hand is harder to hit, but has low hp.
It will speed up the game and this way you cannot defend/evade a critical hit (which is more epic I’d say).
2) Armour Penetration really needs to be lowered to make Armour more interesting. Now most weapons stab right through them, making them a bit pointless. Which is a shame as it should help stop the damage.
3) The creatures need to be worked on. I’d give them weaker stats and weaker weapons. After all, these are the creatures you’re starting out against. So I think they need to inflict a maximum of 6 damage per attack. Otherwise the heroes have no chance at all. You could make stronger versions of the creatures as challenges for later levels (Orc Veterans or such).
4) After killing creatures, heroes can rob their gold and maybe make a roll on a table to see what else they will find. But I’d stay away from taking their equipment, it felt wrong and weird. Also speeds things up. And we think heroes need a maximum carrying capacity to limit them a bit. Now they could be carrying around everything they found. Maybe SB+2? So the Barbarian could carry 5 extra items and the Ranger could carry 2 extra items (so stuff not being equipped).
5) As the game is now camping is scary. The monsters hit so hard that you don’t have time to camp because you will get hit again. But you will need to camp to heal. Argh. But if the monsters get tweaked then camping will be fine. But I’d say that you roll once per room for camping. Not more, because it slows everything down.
6) Introduce magical locks which cannot be broken. This can help lead the game more to certain encounters and not make it too easy with high damage dealers.
7) Some of the ability cards need some work and tweaking. No big things, but they need some change in text and effects. For instance Battle Cry lasts until the character takes another action. That felt wrong as it now always needs to be your last action to work well.
8 ) I’d remove the Focus roll on some abilities or items. We weren’t a fan of Focus on the healing potion as the barbarian apparently has a hard time drinking from a potion ;). Same goes for an Orc going Frenzy. It only goes off on a 6+. Never happened and cost him an action each time.
The players didn’t pick up any torches, so we didn’t get to test them ;).
So the game sure is in the right direction…but we think it needs work to get it to the next level. Most important thing is we had a good game, which is what it’s all about. If you have questions about what I typed, let me know!
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Looks like your first game went worse than mine.
Or maybe we were just lucky with our dice-rolling.
Armour might seem a little weak, but not unrealistic.
A spear for example is a pretty good piercing-weapon in real life ;)
And regarding the healingpotion, I'm not sure if you have to take the focus roll during the camping-phase as well.
It says you can use items for free, so maybe no roll is needed.
We played it like that, and just used to do the focus roll while still in battle.
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And agree, there should be a limit for plundering.
And the use of common sense that the armour of a goblin wouldn't fir a human ;)
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Looks like your first game went worse than mine.
Or maybe we were just lucky with our dice-rolling.
Honestly, I don't think so. I think an Orc will inflict 1 hit in general and will do an average of 10 wounds which are almost impossible to be negated due to the AP4. Even Goblin Warriors will hurt you with their AP4 spear.
Armour might seem a little weak, but not unrealistic.
A spear for example is a pretty good piercing-weapon in real life ;)
But are we looking for a realistic game or a game that works well and is cool to play? ;)
I think the starting creatures shouldn't be that hard...and that all armour should have a use, which now isn't the case.
And regarding the healingpotion, I'm not sure if you have to take the focus roll during the camping-phase as well.
It says you can use items for free, so maybe no roll is needed.
We played it like that, and just used to do the focus roll while still in battle.
Yes, but then it would still suck for the Barbarian with his poor focus. I think potions should work automatically to keep it easy and make sure you can get the hard needed wounds back. And agreed, during camping they should auto-succeed.
And agree, there should be a limit for plundering.
And the use of common sense that the armour of a goblin wouldn't fir a human ;)
But common sense should either be described in the rules or be tackled by rules so you wouldn't need to. I don't care if we have to use common sense, but then it would be good to address this in the rules. Otherwise it can get confusing (like yesterday).
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@Comsquare: The Cleric did Mend Wounds…over and over again.
Okay, what did we think of the game?
Things we liked:
1) In general it was fun! It had the oldskool feel and the mechanics were easy to follow and players could start fast.
2) We REALLY liked the equipment and ability cards. They really help making a personal character and no 2 rangers have to be the same. Just pick different equipment and abilities and you have different characters. Really nice.
3) The items are nice and work well (well, the healing potion is a tricky one, needing a focus action).
4) Critical hits and failures are cool and don’t happen too often.
5) The story in the scenario is great. It has good atmosphere, is moody and spooky and helps to get that RPG feeling. Really nice.
Things we disliked:
1) Combats involve a lot of dice rolling. Because characters can defend/evade around 50% of the attacks miss. And most creatures require 2-3 hits to go down. So that takes quite some time. In the end we weren’t the biggest fan of Defend/Evade as it mainly slowed down the pace. Sometimes we had a full combat round without anything happening due to good Defend/Evade rolls. That felt a bit boring now and then.
It also removed the fun of critical hits. A player would roll a 6 and then another successful roll and was stoked he got a critical hit! I then rolled a 5 and defended the critical hit. And the elation died.
2) Armour Penetration is too high. Armour often is pointless as most creatures had an Armour Penetration of 3-4+. So they would simply stab right through it. Or as a player said about armour: go high or go home. It’s only interesting once you get to Armour 6 or so.
3) The creatures are extremely strong! Especially the Orc was insane: Melee3+ with a Battle Axe and SB+4 meant he hacked into the heroes for so much damage they just couldn’t withstand them. Even the goblins are painful with their relatively good stats and high damage spear.
4) It felt a bit off you could strip the creatures of all of their equipment and move around like a pack mule. The Ranger took the Goblin’s leather armour and then donned it. That was a bit weird. And it felt like buying Armour from the start was pointless. Just kill a creature and take its armour. Cheaper and more effective.
5) Camping is a bit tricky. The heroes really needed to heal (but with Mend Wounds that went very slowly due to the 50% chance of getting the spell off). So first they needed 8 actions to get them patched up enough to get going. The camping brought along another Orc and Goblin and they again got hit hard. We then ruled that Camping wouldn’t trigger again and they needed *14 actions* to get going again.
6) Having the ability to destroy all locks with bashing is a bit too easy. Now they simply evaded the Troll by bashing in the door.
Suggestions:
1) Make Defend/Evade a passive modifier to attack. This way it’s not another roll to be made. So for instance, an Orc has Defend/Evade -0 and a Goblin Defend/Evade -1. The Goblin would inflict a -1 modifier to the attack roll and the Orc doesn’t. The Orc is big and lumbering and can’t really defend…but has many hp to soak up the damage. The Goblin on the other hand is harder to hit, but has low hp.
It will speed up the game and this way you cannot defend/evade a critical hit (which is more epic I’d say).
2) Armour Penetration really needs to be lowered to make Armour more interesting. Now most weapons stab right through them, making them a bit pointless. Which is a shame as it should help stop the damage.
3) The creatures need to be worked on. I’d give them weaker stats and weaker weapons. After all, these are the creatures you’re starting out against. So I think they need to inflict a maximum of 6 damage per attack. Otherwise the heroes have no chance at all. You could make stronger versions of the creatures as challenges for later levels (Orc Veterans or such).
4) After killing creatures, heroes can rob their gold and maybe make a roll on a table to see what else they will find. But I’d stay away from taking their equipment, it felt wrong and weird. Also speeds things up. And we think heroes need a maximum carrying capacity to limit them a bit. Now they could be carrying around everything they found. Maybe SB+2? So the Barbarian could carry 5 extra items and the Ranger could carry 2 extra items (so stuff not being equipped).
5) As the game is now camping is scary. The monsters hit so hard that you don’t have time to camp because you will get hit again. But you will need to camp to heal. Argh. But if the monsters get tweaked then camping will be fine. But I’d say that you roll once per room for camping. Not more, because it slows everything down.
6) Introduce magical locks which cannot be broken. This can help lead the game more to certain encounters and not make it too easy with high damage dealers.
7) Some of the ability cards need some work and tweaking. No big things, but they need some change in text and effects. For instance Battle Cry lasts until the character takes another action. That felt wrong as it now always needs to be your last action to work well.
8 ) I’d remove the Focus roll on some abilities or items. We weren’t a fan of Focus on the healing potion as the barbarian apparently has a hard time drinking from a potion ;). Same goes for an Orc going Frenzy. It only goes off on a 6+. Never happened and cost him an action each time.
The players didn’t pick up any torches, so we didn’t get to test them ;).
So the game sure is in the right direction…but we think it needs work to get it to the next level. Most important thing is we had a good game, which is what it’s all about. If you have questions about what I typed, let me know!
Hi!
I´m glad you had fun playing the game:) and thanks for the input it´s great. I´m really glad you liked the adventure cause that´s one of the things I have not got much feedback about yet. I´m going to go through it all in more detail when I get of work. Most of the things you disliked are think I can fix and balance. The main big issue seems to be the how defend/evade works. I don´t want to kill them of yet but I get you´r point. I have also found it to be to much at times.
One idea I have had is that every character only has three actions per round including defend/evade. This would limit the dice rolling and make you have to make choices when to defend/evade etc. Any thoughts on this?
When I worked on the game I wanted the adventuring characters to come out from a adventure barely alive and maby with some casualties. I think it will make you care more for your characters and adds a level of fear. It would be great to find that balance so thanks for your info!
And regarding the healingpotion, I'm not sure if you have to take the focus roll during the camping-phase as well.
It says you can use items for free, so maybe no roll is needed.
We played it like that, and just used to do the focus roll while still in battle.
Yes that´s right you don´t have to make a focus action during camping phase to use a item.
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But common sense should either be described in the rules or be tackled by rules so you wouldn't need to. I don't care if we have to use common sense, but then it would be good to address this in the rules. Otherwise it can get confusing (like yesterday).
You're right, it should be handled by the rules to avoid confusion (and boring discussions ;) ).
And sure we all prefer a cool and nicely working game to pure realism :)
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Yes that´s right you don´t have to make a focus action during camping phase to use a item.
Glad we got that right :)
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I, unfortunately, only got in one small play-test. I did read through the rules and mark it up for English correction. If this is something you'll be selling it'll be necessary to have an English-speaking editor. Not a big deal, I'm sure you can find someone locally or online.
The best stuff? The art and the feel of the components. Has a genuinely nice old school vibe. The layout is pretty good and it was easy enough to follow along. I think the "ride along" scenario start is a good idea - delving into the proper rules later.
My only game I got in, I died in the first room. The combat is far more role-playing than your average "hack n' slash" dungeon crawl. I think this game would work best with a GM --- playing solo is easy but the bad guys are quite difficult so it would really feel more like a DM vs. Players skirmish game than a "waves of bad guys" adventure.
I love that the PDF includes game tiles for people who don't have anything on hand. That's a simple and smart move. Once again the art is classy.
Things I didn't like:
-Not a huge fan of the scale of the game. I fall more in favor of the heroes hacking through dozens and dozens of goblins at a time, etc. As such I'm not overly fond of keeping track of wounds for simple bad guys (something I disliked about Warhammer Quest despite my appreciation for that game). This is of course a simple opinion and not a critique of the game system itself.
-I do think the monster cards need much more simplification/streamlining. I expected the cards to have stats on them, instead of "leather armour" which then meant I had to go look up the armour value during play etc. I think simple numbers on the monster cards is a far better idea. You could do away completely with the idea of taking items from monsters --- perhaps replace this with an option to draw a gear card for each enemy slain?
I'll give this another try when I get the chance, but from my first (and only!) experience, I found it more clunky than I was anticipating. Again, probably easier with a DM who is covering his side of the cards/monsters. I think it's a brilliant start but could really shine with some streamlining.
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I, unfortunately, only got in one small play-test. I did read through the rules and mark it up for English correction. If this is something you'll be selling it'll be necessary to have an English-speaking editor. Not a big deal, I'm sure you can find someone locally or online.
The best stuff? The art and the feel of the components. Has a genuinely nice old school vibe. The layout is pretty good and it was easy enough to follow along. I think the "ride along" scenario start is a good idea - delving into the proper rules later.
My only game I got in, I died in the first room. The combat is far more role-playing than your average "hack n' slash" dungeon crawl. I think this game would work best with a GM --- playing solo is easy but the bad guys are quite difficult so it would really feel more like a DM vs. Players skirmish game than a "waves of bad guys" adventure.
I love that the PDF includes game tiles for people who don't have anything on hand. That's a simple and smart move. Once again the art is classy.
Things I didn't like:
-Not a huge fan of the scale of the game. I fall more in favor of the heroes hacking through dozens and dozens of goblins at a time, etc. As such I'm not overly fond of keeping track of wounds for simple bad guys (something I disliked about Warhammer Quest despite my appreciation for that game). This is of course a simple opinion and not a critique of the game system itself.
-I do think the monster cards need much more simplification/streamlining. I expected the cards to have stats on them, instead of "leather armour" which then meant I had to go look up the armour value during play etc. I think simple numbers on the monster cards is a far better idea. You could do away completely with the idea of taking items from monsters --- perhaps replace this with an option to draw a gear card for each enemy slain?
I'll give this another try when I get the chance, but from my first (and only!) experience, I found it more clunky than I was anticipating. Again, probably easier with a DM who is covering his side of the cards/monsters. I think it's a brilliant start but could really shine with some streamlining.
I have contemplated all weekend on the feedback I have got so far. I agree with you in making the game more streamlined and I'm now ready to make v1,1 of the game :). I'm going to work on simplifying the game but still try to keep the rpg feeling i sought for from the start. My first big change will be to make defend/evade passive modifyers as Malebolgia suggested.
I have several ways to go here. I can keep things as they are and make defend/evade passive modifyers to the attackers roll.
Or I can change Evade to only apply to ranged attacks and traps etc and defend to melee. This is what I'm leaning towards myself right now.
Or I can simplify it and make a attribute that applies to both. This will aquire a total renovation of the balance of the game. Wich I'm willing to make if it makes it better. Opinons are most welcome
The reason for making the evade work when attacked in melee in the first place was that I wanted the thief and ranger to have use for their agility and give them a edge.
Otherwhise I agree with most of your suggestions and will make a effort the comming weeks to shape things up:)
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I think it would be good to have both, defend and evade, to differentiate the classes a little more, like you say.
Passive mods might be the way to go though ;)
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I have several ways to go here. I can keep things as they are and make defend/evade passive modifyers to the attackers roll.
Or I can change Evade to only apply to ranged attacks and traps etc and defend to melee. This is what I'm leaning towards myself right now.
Or I can simplify it and make a attribute that applies to both. This will aquire a total renovation of the balance of the game. Wich I'm willing to make if it makes it better. Opinons are most welcome
I think both can work. Maybe give monsters a passive modifier to all attacks and give heroes a Defend and Evade stat. So no extra dice rolling for monsters (a hit is a hit), but extra defence for the heroes.
I think the most important thing is to streamline monsters…they are not the focus of the game. It’s about heroes, so I think most gaming time should involve them.
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I think both can work. Maybe give monsters a passive modifier to all attacks and give heroes a Defend and Evade stat. So no extra dice rolling for monsters (a hit is a hit), but extra defence for the heroes.
I think the most important thing is to streamline monsters…they are not the focus of the game. It’s about heroes, so I think most gaming time should involve them.
I like that! Thank you :)
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Here is a example of how the new monster cards could look like. I have tried to have all relevant info on the card so there is no need for looking up weapons and armor and got rid of stats that the monster has no need for like ranged in this example.
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-60k9VuFjZl8/WDxOg4_1B9I/AAAAAAAADPY/Gzjqu51_QMIyUUEiVh-T7cS9xJyIzs6fQCLcB/s1600/MonstersV1.png)
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Much better! Everything's on it and it's very clear. Maybe get rid of Crit hits for monsters? I know, I keep chipping at them, but this way it's easier to add more of them (since 4 will probably do as much damage as 3 with crit hits?). And easier to play monsters too.
And do Monsters need Focus? The Orc did with Frenzy...but maybe make it passive (in the lower area of the card).
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I think that looks much better/easier. The only additional things I'd consider removing are the "+1D6" on the Gold (I think you could remove additional dice rolls where not really needed), and I agree the critical is perhaps not super necessary.
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Looks nice.
Personally I would keep the Critical for monsters, but maybe that's just me ;)
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Much better! Everything's on it and it's very clear. Maybe get rid of Crit hits for monsters? I know, I keep chipping at them, but this way it's easier to add more of them (since 4 will probably do as much damage as 3 with crit hits?). And easier to play monsters too.
And do Monsters need Focus? The Orc did with Frenzy...but maybe make it passive (in the lower area of the card).
Maby I did think about it when I worked on the cards. I must look through the ability cards to check the focus attribute. But if it's redundant I will get rid of it.
I think that looks much better/easier. The only additional things I'd consider removing are the "+1D6" on the Gold (I think you could remove additional dice rolls where not really needed), and I agree the critical is perhaps not super necessary.
I'd like some randomness to drop but maby i'll make some item drop as you suggested instead.
Looks nice.
Personally I would keep the Critical for monsters, but maybe that's just me ;)
Ok. Thanks😊 I'll contemplate on this for a while.
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WOW, really glad to see the community is helping this very promising project. Unfortunately (well, not so unfortunate, as I'm having some work to do, something a bit scarce here, lately) I'm busier than expected atm, so I can't help as much as I wanted to...
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I´m working on updating the rules and cards and I have uploaded new monster cards and a updated rulebook to the folder. I have not yet play tested the modifications and there is still some things to work on before v1.1 ;) is done. I´m also working on some green stuff sculpts that I aim to mold next weekend. They are still work in progress but I´l post some pictures.
(https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-KuzrboU-bKo/WECq3WsVQLI/AAAAAAAADQI/-TxYGfs7TdYKEIOYd8KYWdIf3t0wFTK8wCLcB/s1600/WarriorA.jpg)
(https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-Pu2MI8zwhA8/WECq3UIl1UI/AAAAAAAADQE/PJ5R8RCCkcc33GHe2H1OcLVysEVcFVQTACLcB/s1600/ThiefA.jpg)
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-NjGORo7ws9I/WECtgQWWijI/AAAAAAAADQU/B5UuMqNqZvQrAc3l_OnFScQkIU8U9v9kQCLcB/s1600/WarriorB.jpg)
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So you skipped the critical for the monsters I see ;)
Will test them tomorrow.
And nice sculpts, by the way :)
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Yes I did. Mostly because the limited space on the cards:) Great! Let me know how work out.
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I have cast the troll:) I made a mould from rtv silicone and cast it in pewter. Some flawes and bubles in the mould but nothing that can´t be fixed.
I´m resting from the game for now to get some perspektive :)
(https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-Hd0wZBt75r8/WEdVkZPTisI/AAAAAAAADQ0/i6pS1jH4EYMNR7QnHbbDKqUzdlmzm8gzgCLcB/s1600/IMG_5762%2B%25281%2529.JPG)
(https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-qU9ilPBzuVY/WEdVp3xC8OI/AAAAAAAADQ4/TPZ6rJBMTzoOHJUJJ0eHryGnfjTCVAn7QCLcB/s1600/IMG_5774.JPG)
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Hi Joel
Tnx for letting me peak at the rules & try out the game .
Sorry it took a bit of longer to get session down the i tought,. due kids & life in genral .
But boy am glad i managed to print out & play a session .
My first impressions is that
I Dont think a cant crontribute that much ,. cause most of it is allready said.
Can only concur with many others, I really love the art and the old school RPG feel ,
I really like that it feels dangerous all the time .. and nothing I wish would change , cause hate games that hold your hand all the way .
But like one previously posters said, I to would maybe prefer a couple of softer enemies that are more in nr, but less in HP . So that I can feel more like a Powerful Hero while I am smashing goblins ..And from a more tactical Point of view i prefer to be outnumbered by the baddies :D
I really like Ability Cards and the things they do , maybe if some sort of campaign option comes down the line you should restrict how many skill can be gathered.
What I would not mind if included , some kind of random events(Think Warhammer Quest) more traps (Think Dungeonquest) and variation on them .
I would also like Your wonderful tiles in colour & a online shop were I can get the miniatures you are working on ;) cause I really like them a lot .
Keep doing what your doing & Looking forward to se more of your work .
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Hi Joel
Tnx for letting me peak at the rules & try out the game .
Sorry it took a bit of longer to get session down the i tought,. due kids & life in genral .
But boy am glad i managed to print out & play a session .
My first impressions is that
I Dont think a cant crontribute that much ,. cause most of it is allready said.
Can only concur with many others, I really love the art and the old school RPG feel ,
I really like that it feels dangerous all the time .. and nothing I wish would change , cause hate games that hold your hand all the way .
But like one previously posters said, I to would maybe prefer a couple of softer enemies that are more in nr, but less in HP . So that I can feel more like a Powerful Hero while I am smashing goblins ..And from a more tactical Point of view i prefer to be outnumbered by the baddies :D
I really like Ability Cards and the things they do , maybe if some sort of campaign option comes down the line you should restrict how many skill can be gathered.
What I would not mind if included , some kind of random events(Think Warhammer Quest) more traps (Think Dungeonquest) and variation on them .
I would also like Your wonderful tiles in colour & a online shop were I can get the miniatures you are working on ;) cause I really like them a lot .
Keep doing what your doing & Looking forward to se more of your work .
Hi!
Thank you for your input! Random events sounds nice, I´ll have that in mind (maybe a new deck of cards:) Yes it would be great to make the tiles in color. I´ve been thinking about maybe aquarelle or something similar. As for the miniatures I have just listed some on etsy today:) I will post it in a new topic in the forum.
I´ve worked alot on the miniatures lately but I have decided to spend some time continuing working on the scenarios. My son and I are play testing to and he is on me about a new scenario.