Lead Adventure Forum
Miniatures Adventure => Medieval Adventures => Topic started by: ayak333 on December 22, 2016, 02:36:12 AM
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definitely an interesting direction! Fireforge Plastic Medieval Scandinavian Infantry. looks like they're re-using the russian torsos and some arms/weapons.
http://wargameterrain.blogspot.com/2016/12/fireforge-games-new-plastic-medieval.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+WargameNewsAndTerrain+%28Wargame+news+and+terrain%2C+A+blog+dedicated+to+the+hobby+of+wargaming%21%29 (http://wargameterrain.blogspot.com/2016/12/fireforge-games-new-plastic-medieval.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+WargameNewsAndTerrain+%28Wargame+news+and+terrain%2C+A+blog+dedicated+to+the+hobby+of+wargaming%21%29)
and here at the fireforge site http://www.fireforge-games.com/fireforge-games-miniatures/coming-soon/scandinavian-infantry-plastic-set (http://www.fireforge-games.com/fireforge-games-miniatures/coming-soon/scandinavian-infantry-plastic-set)
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Well those certainly caught my attention.
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Nice idea. But the execution looks crude as hell. These remind me of Old Glory figures from about 20 years ago. Let's hope these are just WIP shots and there is some finessing yet to be done.
Other than that, let's hope the very enterprising and admirable Fireforge Games change their sculptor, as North Star have recently done with their plastic Frostgrave line. Because the step up in quality that can be achieved is very marked...
Honestly, I think this sculptor - variously employed over the last few years by Fireforge, North Star, Gripping Beast and Conquest Games amongst others - is getting worse :(
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Indeed they have to rework them to make them really useful without major surgery to alternate the poses. That can be done with plastics and a sharp blade but takes a lot of time . So as long as Fire Forge doesn't change them I probably won't buy.
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Well we are a tough bunch to please... You've got to feel sorry for the producers of plastic wargaming boxsets- practically everything previewed is pulled apart by us, before it is even finished!!
I agree that these look a bit iffy but, I know that I've seen plastics that look awful in the preview stage but are much better when released. I agree about the mace arm the style of which appears in a lot of the plastic kits in slightly different forms carrying a heavy object in a way someone just wouldn't, it just about works for swords (as in the gripping beast plastics) but it creates a slightly unsatisfactory pose where the animation of the figure is 'unresolved' kind of like looking at an inbetween frame in animation constantly when it would be better to look at the beginning, the end or perhaps one of the key frames of the action.
What often baffles me about plastic kits, is there are often some good arms to create decent poses, and then a bunch of half bothered ones.... Maybe its so we all buy extra kits?
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Well, the Frostgrave Barbarians are remarkably better sculpts compared to the Frostgrave Soldiers (still not bad), while Fireforge seems to lose quality as they go. Their Crusader kits are fine, but the recent Russian infantry look rather crude with strange poses, and these look to continue that tradition.
I love the style, and if the minis were good they would be great for my interests, which is Frostgrave and Game of Thrones, but the WIPs do not instill a lot of confidence.
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Those heads... :'(
Not impressed at all by those plastics.
I totally agree with the comments about recent designs of the named manufacturers, models are a hit and a miss. Especially the Saga sets, about 35% is decent enough to use without tarting up but the militia types are mostly just dollies randomly dressed in greenstuff. The Pagan Rus especially, personally I wouldn't dare to release those...
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I there a name for the way they want their miniatures to look like? They must be going for some sort of look that someone likes. Or is it just people on this forum that don’t like them? Judging by the names on their boxes, this would be my miniature pusher, but it’s not. I bought their sergeants but had to cover then up in big units of Perry´s for it to look acceptable.
Most if my painting efforts are spent painting medieval Scandinavians, but I don’t think this set is going under the Christmas three.
Sorry Fireforge but as they say in my native tongue: “det er en ommer!”
Cheers and a merry Christmas to you all.
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Well we are a tough bunch to please... You've got to feel sorry for the producers of plastic wargaming boxsets- practically everything previewed is pulled apart by us, before it is even finished!!
I'm not sure that's entirely true, although we are indeed a critical bunch... :)
The previews of the Frostgrave barbarian set were greeted with almost universal acclaim, because they looked great - and indeed proved to be great. Ditto almost every set the Perrys have produced, and Victrix too in recent times.
I'm afraid it just comes down to the quality of the sculpting, whether it's metal or plastic, and these look pretty dire. Just look at the hands :o
Ironically the earlier Fireforge sets were better... Such a shame...
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I own the Fireforge Russians and I have to say they are bloody terrible. Soft details, poorly fitting pieces, static one-piece bodies, off-scale and I don't consider myself too scale picky. One detail that really stood out for me was how they all have sheated swords molded onto their bodies in a way that makes it impossible to remove them yet also have mostly arms with drawn swords as weapons!
These unfortunately look like more of the same. A shame really, the subject matter is interesting.
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That's a real shame as the idea of these is attractive (as were the Russians). Lazy sculpting doesn't do them any favors.
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Rubbish. The most well researched armour of the period is the Gotland armour and I see precious little of that represented.
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Another miss from Fireforge, then. Saves me the money, though... ::)
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Yeah, they do save me quite some money with their recent offerings. Their resin Mongol heavy cav e.g. , not only look their horses way off ( besides the fact that those are too big ) but also the quality of the Mongol riders is below par. A shame really, especially now that there are many competitors all over the market so we're spoiled for choice...
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Wow..this really does read like a TMP thread :(
Okay, I'm not a scolar or remotely interested in Scandinavian medieval armour at all so I can't judge the accuracy (but I still get a box for Frostgrave).
However, the FFG plastic Russians are really not as bad as some here say they are.
@Tjorskold
My Russian sprues have each *one* sword arm and the swords sculpted to the bodies are really easily altered to match..
And what's wrong with the scale??
As for the details and fit they are not better or worse than others imho. And I've got a lot of plastics ;)
(http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m146/CiaphasCain_album/Fireforge%20Games%20Russians/8B02289F-D8BC-433D-802F-6F28F6412016_zps7pd0043x.jpg) (http://s103.photobucket.com/user/CiaphasCain_album/media/Fireforge%20Games%20Russians/8B02289F-D8BC-433D-802F-6F28F6412016_zps7pd0043x.jpg.html)
I'm not saying they are the best figures in the world but c'mon..
Merry Christmas
SP
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Wow..this really does read like a TMP thread :(
Okay, I'm not a scolar or remotely interested in Scandinavian medieval armour at all so I can't judge the accuracy (but I still get a box for Frostgrave).
However, the FFG plastic Russians are really not as bad as some here say they are.
@Tjorskold
My Russian sprues have each *one* sword arm and the swords sculpted to the bodies are really easily altered to match..
And what's wrong with the scale??
As for the details and fit they are not better or worse than others imho. And I've got a lot of plastics ;)
(http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m146/CiaphasCain_album/Fireforge%20Games%20Russians/8B02289F-D8BC-433D-802F-6F28F6412016_zps7pd0043x.jpg) (http://s103.photobucket.com/user/CiaphasCain_album/media/Fireforge%20Games%20Russians/8B02289F-D8BC-433D-802F-6F28F6412016_zps7pd0043x.jpg.html)
I'm not saying they are the best figures in the world but c'mon..
Merry Christmas
SP
"TMP"? Gloves off eh? ;-)
I think that images makes teh argument. The fellow loks like he is draped in chicken wire, not ring mail.
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Hmm, I get the point about the chainmail, it is indeed a bit weird, but the gaps can be easily filled with green stuff. Something that you have to do with the Gripping Beast Saxons / Vikings as well.
But never the less, it goes into the right direction.
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It's worth being critical. I would have loved to buy some of these style minis if they were done by say the sculptor who did the Frostgrave Barbarians. Clearly it is possible for a smaller company to make a better quality product without having in house sculptors on the Perry level.
I would have bought the Russians as well if they looked at least decent, but I think they look plain bad. Just smack a comparison photo of some Perry Agincourt french, some Frostgrave Barbarians or some Victrix ancients next to the mini above and the difference is obvious.
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@Suetonius Paullinus: I'm not here to take away from your experience or tell you EVERYTHING YOU LIKE IS WRONG!!! ;) I had a different experience than you with these minis and I wanted to share that.
To add some balance to my previous assessment, here's what I like about the minis:
1. loose Dane axes and spears. Loose weapons allow for greater flexibility in conversion work and Dane axes are something I haven't seen in any other plastic kit (maybe some Gripping Beast kits have them, I don't know).
2. the shields are nice. The decorated 'teardrop' shields are really good, and will find lots of uses in my collection.
3. the heads are unusual and useful. They can do double duty for vikings, medieval Scandinavians, Byzantines and even Arabs etc.
I still hold the detailing is downright shoddy, and scaling is all over the place. The bodies are slightly smaller than Frostgrave, bigger than Gripping Beast, and the weapons range in between smaller than Gripping beast and bigger than Frostgrave.
Still, at the end of the day it's all about what works for the individual collector/gamer. And if these minis work for you then I won't spend anymore time arguing my point.
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Well yeah. Let's agree to disagree. Plain bad is something I'd expect as a label for some of the older WGF sets but I do think it's not justified in this case. They are certainly not the best plastics on the market but work nice enough for me.
(http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m146/CiaphasCain_album/Fireforge%20Games%20Russians/D7C74419-34E0-4939-9625-07B7C5B07DC2_zpsimdyoivr.jpg) (http://s103.photobucket.com/user/CiaphasCain_album/media/Fireforge%20Games%20Russians/D7C74419-34E0-4939-9625-07B7C5B07DC2_zpsimdyoivr.jpg.html)
(http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m146/CiaphasCain_album/Fireforge%20Games%20Russians/5747F7FE-44F9-41C4-A297-AD3B7A8AA2FD_zpsp1lvwi41.jpg) (http://s103.photobucket.com/user/CiaphasCain_album/media/Fireforge%20Games%20Russians/5747F7FE-44F9-41C4-A297-AD3B7A8AA2FD_zpsp1lvwi41.jpg.html)
In any case I'm glad the lads at Fireforge Games are doing what they are doing and I won't bash their work. I can see room for improvement and I'm sure they can/will as well...once they've got the necessary funds ;)
Cheers
SP
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You game him a pretty nice pj with lovely dark, colours. Really like that small warband :).
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You game him a pretty nice pj with lovely dark, colours. Really like that small warband :).
You've just proven that a very old saying has it completely wrong. You CAN make a silk purse out of a sows' ear.
Honestly, they are not very good. Aside from the honeycomb mail, the splints on the legs look like a collection of belaying pins tied together. The weapons are definitely out of scale, most of the helmets too narrow and the detailing very, very (too?) soft. I had high hopes for these sets as a basis for Late Eastern Romans (so called Byzantines) but I'm having second thoughts now.
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Here you go guys, fresh off their page.
(http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f318/Maxromek/FFScandinavian_zpsidyhwmru.jpg)
The archers are terrible, I guess made in the similar manner s their other archer set. Whoever came up with the double headed axes idea has very strange imagination.
However, the rest looks at least interesting. I'm a big fan of bardiches, so that's something to look up for.
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A shot of the sprue:
(http://www.fireforge-games.com/images/stories/virtuemart/product/Scandinavian.jpg)
Bardiches: yay!
Rest of the miniatures: ...ugh.
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Whoever came up with the double headed axes idea has very strange imagination.
It does seem like they are trying to double dip in the fantasy market. As long as they give a few arm/weapon options it's not a problem.
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It does seem like they are trying to double dip in the fantasy market. As long as they give a few arm/weapon options it's not a problem.
Aye that is true. However, they are selling this kit with a specific period and specific nation in description... As much as I don't mind it more often than not, but I just wish they said it outright in this case.
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I really wanted these to be great but I think they are pretty average. It says on their FB page that there is a separate spear sprue included, this should add some more normal weapons, that axe is ridiculous.
Suetonius Paullinus has certainly demonstrated what can be done with them though. I certainly don't think they're a lost cause by any means.
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They are not the best kits around but certainly good enough for tabletop usage. Quite an unusual kit are there already miniatures around for this period as I don't recall ever seeing those strange halberds? The box includes extra spears read that too.
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They don't look brilliant, but they look like they have some useful parts. I like them more than the russians and will probably buy a kit to kitbash.
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I saw them yesterday on FB, unlike the GBP Archers, I'm going to give these a try. I think I can do something with them and will likely kit bash them.
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are there already miniatures around for this period as I don't recall ever seeing those strange halberds?
The bardiches are wrong for the subject/period. I also think heavy gloves for the archers are a bit strange.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bardiche
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I saw them yesterday on FB, unlike the GBP Archers, I'm going to give these a try. I think I can do something with them and will likely kit bash them.
Judging by pictures on the internet (I know, I know...) I would agree: these look better. Unfortunately, not a period/location I am interested in.
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I really wanted these to be great but I think they are pretty average. It says on their FB page that there is a separate spear sprue included, this should add some more normal weapons, that axe is ridiculous.
Suetonius Paullinus has certainly demonstrated what can be done with them though. I certainly don't think they're a lost cause by any means.
The double headed axe isn't that bad, shouldn't be that hard to just snip a head off if needed or trimmed into a pick if nothing else.
I'm assuming that the reason for the more fantasy aspects is due to their fantasy line and that they had space on the sprues since things like spears would take up enough space to need their own for a smaller box.
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I do like the look of those personally
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So has anybody figured out what exactly those chaps are? The mix of shields and various helmets along with these axes... not sure what they are.
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So has anybody figured out what exactly those chaps are? The mix of shields and various helmets along with these axes... not sure what they are.
They are an ecclectic mix of several previous FF sets, with the odd fantasy viking trope thrown in for good measure, to justify the label 'Scandinavian'.
They should have been labeled 'Fantasy Northerners', and nobody would have lifted an eyebrow.
FFs answer when criticized on FB was pathetic: they could not afford to have a fully historical set of dollies made for this release, so went with already realeased stuff. Well, if you don't have the means to invest, either wait until you do, or go for crowdfunding, like everybody else does these days, and get a proper product made.
I like most of their early products, but I think the quality and accuracy of their releases is spiraling downwards, which is, to tell the truth, not what I expect of a company that started off well.
(edited for a couple of typos/missing words)
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FFs answer when criticized on FB was pathetic: they could not afford to have a fully historical set of dollies made for this realease, so went with already realeased stuff. Well, if you don't have the means to invest, either wait until you, or go for crowdfunding, like everybody else does these days, and get a proper product made.
Yeah, I've seen their reply and I thought it was BS. These are basically their Russians with some new weapons and heads. They also tried to claim that they worked with some historians and re-enactors to attest for the historicity. As a re-enactor myself, I can tell you that this means absolutely nothing. Most re-enactment societies (and unfortunately a lot of the vikings ones, look at how many viking re-enactors wear lamellar armour... drives me nuts!) have a very loose attitude towards authenticity. I bet FF was basically asking questions like "Would this be okay for 13thC Scandinavians?" and the answer was "Well, they used these kinda helmets in earlier periods, but I guess some of them may have stilled been used." or "Yeah, bardiches are a bit later, but we can't really pinpoint the right time, so maybe?" and then just went with it. This is especially pathetic considering that we have such a great account of the Battle of Visby together with copious amounts of artifacts. The battle happened in 1361, but it's widely agreed that a lot of the weapons and armour excavated was either old itself at the time of the battle or of the older styles, worn by mostly levies and militiamen. So yeah, they had a fairly reasonable basis for making those Scandinavians and then completely disregarded it.
I personally like the weapon options, maybe bar the double headed axes, but the longer I look at how FF went about making these, the more I grow annoyed at them.
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Yeah, it seems like that whole "we're helping out The Ninth Age" thing is seeping over into everything else FF do. ;)
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Yeah, it seems like that whole "we're helping out The Ninth Age" thing is seeping over into everything else FF do. ;)
Partially, it also might be more of filling in space on a sprue so that they can do both. I'd love to see the weapons sprue that is supposed to also be in the set that at least has spears and probably other things.
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I'd be very interested if they made a sprue of bardiches, dane axes and other loose weapons. Those would be very useful for all sorts of conversion work.
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Partially, it also might be more of filling in space on a sprue so that they can do both. I'd love to see the weapons sprue that is supposed to also be in the set that at least has spears and probably other things.
Have a look here, they already do spears, javelins, and lances/pikes as separate sets:
http://www.fireforge-games.com/webstore/figure-accessories
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That is nice to have separate spears . I would like to have the shields they do as a separate pack , that would be grand
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Have a look here, they already do spears, javelins, and lances/pikes as separate sets:
http://www.fireforge-games.com/webstore/figure-accessories
Just a word of warning, the shafts on those weapons are quite thick (hurhurhur) so if you are thinking of using them with some historical figures they may not work. I grabbed a bunch and found them too awkward to use with both Conquest Normans and Warlord's Pike and Shotte plastic minis.
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Yeah, I'd just stick to wire spears really.
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Yeah, I'd just stick to wire spears really.
So would I, but some people are not too keen on the sharp points.