Lead Adventure Forum
Other Stuff => Workbench => Topic started by: Jeff965 on December 22, 2016, 02:03:26 PM
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Well we've all wanted to do it, all those lovely terrain set ups we've seen on LAF has made us want to do it.
All the fellow wargamers saying how easy it is has made us want to do it, all the blogs and you tube videos show us how easy it is to do it.
So I'm doing it, I'm going to give this terrain board malarkey a whirl and you are quite welcome to follow my roaring success or epic failure as I go along.
Please feel free to chuck in bits of advice/abuse and feel free to learn from my mistakes/triumphs.
First up is mixing up a gloop of pva, paint and sand in an old pot and then brushing it on a 2'x2' terrain board from TSS. No preparing the tile with anything just brushing/pouring straight on, let's see where this gets me.
First lesson..... I'm going to need a lot of this gloop :o
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For some reason, I can't picture you as a Virgin anything Jeff! ;D
Good luck on this foray. I'll be going this route soon.
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A good start,keep us updated,keen to see how you get on with this
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Go on show us more!
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Looking good Jeff.
What's the board made from? Foam?
Also the gloop looks spot on :-)
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That looks like it has the potential to be a great Choccie Brownie!
:-* :-*
Good luck with this, mate, I shall watch with interest.
:D
(P.S. Dont let the missus see these pictures or she may whack you with that saucpan!)
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I would suggest that you stipple the goop before it drys :)
cheers
James
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Oh dear, you've got the bag in the first pic upside down, I'm sure that's not right.
:D
Funny, I'm just starting my own board (as opposed to removable scenery bits).
True to form I'm taking an opportunistic route, using a discarded architect's mode...
Looking forward to see more of this.
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Haven't you finished yet?
A good start and good advise from James about stippling the boards before the gloop dries. It adds a nice texture. :)
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I'd agree with James- it will stop vertical lines in the texture. Alternatively you could apply in random or circular motions
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That looks like it has the potential to be a great Choccie Brownie!
:-* :-*
If you cut it up you could mail us all a piece. ;)
For the stippling a carrier bag scrunched up and dabbed onto the surface might do well. Although I suppose it's dried by now :?
Let us know how flat your board is when it's dry, if curved I have had some success by painting the reverse with PVA and sometimes that pulls it back flat, hopefully you won't need to do that. I have only used hardboard which is too thin and curves easily.
You probably have already seen it but I have been very impressed by Silent Invaders Game of Thrones board partly because it is just amazing but also he has managed to hide the joins between the boards somewhat by using electrostatic grass and so has a bit of a blured line between the boards, look on his blog, but I think he may have posted it on here. I got to it from a thread Cptn Blood did about a game they played on the boards I think at one of the BLAM's. But you probably know that as well.
Good luck with your project.
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Looking good Jeff.
What's the board made from? Foam?
Also the gloop looks spot on :-)
It's a TSS tile Andy, it looks like white polystyrene covered in green flock like the one pictured below.
That looks like it has the potential to be a great Choccie Brownie!
:-* :-*
Good luck with this, mate, I shall watch with interest.
:D
(P.S. Dont let the missus see these pictures or she may whack you with that saucpan!)
I glooped this about midday, then my son turned up with his family for the Xmas weekend. I've been disappearing up my shed to stipple the board as it drys so I've been getting the evil eye from SWMBO already. I've tried in the past to explain to her how important my little projects are but to no avail sigh.
Hey Vagabond, yeh I'm aware of SI and the Cap'ns work they are the standards everybody try's to achieve (along with the Bibbles of course). Me I'm just dipping my toe in the water and seeing what I can achieve with the little resources and time I have. If I mess it up not to worry, I'll keep trying. If there's one thing LAF does for me it gets me to try different things I haven't tried before :D
Anyhoo back to the stippling.
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If there's one thing LAF does for me it gets me to try different things I haven't tried before :D
Does that mean Star Wars games too? lol
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Interesting approach. I usually cover my boards with slightly thinned PVA, then pour sand on and let dry, seal with PVA thinned to about the consistency of milk, let dry, then paint.
Your method skips some steps compared to that - the above method does not need stippling, though, gives a very coarse finish that is easy to drybrush.
I shall be following this with interest! :)
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Does that mean Star Wars games too? lol
I just pre ordered Rougue one (don't tell Jimbibbly or Damas). I've heard it's a war film in a Sci Fi setting so that's my excuse :D
Interesting approach. I usually cover my boards with slightly thinned PVA, then pour sand on and let dry, seal with PVA thinned to about the consistency of milk, let dry, then paint.
Your method skips some steps compared to that - the above method does not need stippling, though, gives a very coarse finish that is easy to drybrush.
I shall be following this with interest! :)
I may end up doing that, I thought I was being clever because if the board chipped at all I would only have the dark brown showing through. I'm thinking if this is crap I'll just chuck a coat of pva over this, then more sand and then paint that when its dry. We'll see....
Anyway back to the stippling....
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Anyway back to the stippling....
lol
Still at it then?
Either that or you have a home brew kit in the shed.....
:D
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Does that mean Star Wars games too? lol
Yeah!!!
lol
cheers
James
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lol
Still at it then?
Either that or you have a home brew kit in the shed.....
:D
No home brew, but there is a fridge full of beer :)
Yeah!!!
lol
cheers
James
Looking forward to this new film matey, just hope there's no stupid geeky looking aliens with an annoying voice in it.
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Looking forward to this new film matey, just hope there's no stupid geeky looking aliens with an annoying voice in it.
I can tell you with absolute certainty that you'll love it ;)
I might be biased though lol
Honstly though, it is very good and has a different feel to normal Star Wars films.
Anyway, back to the subject in hand, you can also use washing up sponges to help with the stippling but make sure they are either used or bought for purpose lol
cheers
James
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I just pre ordered Rogue One (don't tell Jimbibbly or Damas). I've heard it's a war film in a Sci Fi setting so that's my excuse :D
Hello? Did I hear someone call? The siren's song is strong with this one! ;)
Keep up with the stippling and you'll have a board to represent Jeddah in no time. :D
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No home brew, but there is a fridge full of beer
So you meant tippling not stippling lol
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Good start Jeff
I would have maybe put some more texture into the board before the gloop
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Nearly 24 hours and it still isn't dry :o
I've been stippling like a maniac, but I'm just going to leave it now to allow it to fully dry. If I need to I may add more sand before painting but we'll see.
Any comments/mickeytaking most welcome :)
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I was going to say: "Prepare for a shitstorm of opinions!" Too late, it has already descended.
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Depending on the thickness, 24-48 hrs is normal to completely dry out. A semi-warm room and some dehumidifier can work wonders, just don't just an hair dryer or similar, as that just calls warpage.
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I was going to say: "Prepare for a shitstorm of opinions!" Too late, it has already descended.
Don't mind that mate all advice welcome :)
Depending on the thickness, 24-48 hrs is normal to completely dry out. A semi-warm room and some dehumidifier can work wonders, just don't just an hair dryer or similar, as that just calls warpage.
It's pretty cold up my shed right now, and I've got grandkids running around the house at the moment. I think I'll bring it in tonight and let it have a good twelve hours in the kitchen where we have a permenant dehumidifier :)
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These things take ages to dry. Where was it drying before? Bringing it inside at this time of year will help.
Looking better with the stippling
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That looks the job :D
Any mickeytaking most welcome :)
Are you sure...?
lol
cheers
James
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That is coming along very nicely, Jeff.
It takes a lot longer to dry out when you keep spilling beer on it, though, mate.....
;)
Any comments/mickeytaking most welcome :)
Are you sure...?
lol
'Tis compulsory, dear boy.
You know that!
;D
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Good start on losing your board virgnity. ??? The first time round is a bit hit and miss. I guess it's a bit late to suggest trying it on a small piece first to get the hang of it. :D :D
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These things take ages to dry. Where was it drying before? Bringing it inside at this time of year will help.
Looking better with the stippling
Cheers Col, it's coming inside tonight instead of the shed :)
That looks the job :D
Are you sure...?
lol
cheers
James
A little gentle ribbing is aloud I think, it's Xmas after all :)
That is coming along very nicely, Jeff.
It takes a lot longer to dry out when you keep spilling beer on it, though, mate.....
;)
'Tis compulsory, dear boy.
You know that!
;D
Don't know about beer Paul, I do seem to remember thinning that bitter chocolate paint down with water last summer when I painted the back of the house so maybe that's got something to do with it.
Good start on losing your board virgnity. ??? The first time round is a bit hit and miss. I guess it's a bit late to suggest trying it on a small piece first to get the hang of it. :D :D
In for a penny Gary, in for a penny.....lol
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Any comments/mickeytaking most welcome :)
Be careful what you wish for. There are more vicious smart bothered people round here than you can shake an unfinished wizards tower at. :D
It is looking like a great start.
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I think you're off to a good start Jeff. Once you start drybrushing, etc the texture will show through. I bought a pot of brown artist's ink (peat colour) and diluted it with water before brushing that in. It helped with the colour contrast and as that's what I do on my bases it helps tie it all together.
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That looks like a nice texture already.
Personally I just use filler and stipple that, no need for mixing up gloop, and no need to mess around with sand. Dries fast too!
I have found that you don't need much stippling to get a good drybrush-ready texture. When my filler is still wet it really doesn't look like there will be any texture worth drybrushing at all, but when it's dry... works a treat. I do a few light layers of drybrushing and then a dark wash, and it's a great texture.
My point is, you might be surprised how little 'texture' you need to work up for a good result.
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There are more vicious smart bothered people round here than you can shake an unfinished wizards tower at. :D
I quite often do lol
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Looking good Jeff.
Speaking as the High Prophet of the Gloop, may I extend a sandy, sticky, gloopy welcome to the ranks of The Initiated.
Ignore all the naysayers who will tempt you down other paths. Gloop is the fastest, cheapest, most durable and robust material known to wargaming man when it comes to basing figures and making terrain :) 8)
Live only through the Gloop, my son, and the Gloop will reward you in manifold ways. Amen :D
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And so says Lord Augustus!
;D ;)
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Thanks for the supportive comments chaps, I'm in the process of deciding on paint colours and static grass and I was wondering what length of static grass do you use for your terrain?
Please feel free to chuck up some photos of your work.
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It'll be a worthwhile journey Jeff!
I'm not a disciple of the gloop (I belong to the glue-sand-paint stage-by-stage faction) but grass mixes are, quite literally, above all that. :D
Richard has made a number of mixes so I took his advice before concocting mine for The North. My notes say it comprises:
Grass was added using various fibre products that had been mixed in a bag:
2 x Javis Static Hairy Grass Summer No.2
1 x Javis Static Hairy Grass Autumn No.3
1 x Woodland Scenics Coarse Turf Light Green T63
1 x Woodland Scenics Coarse Turf Burnt Grass T62
1 x Woodland Scenics Coarse Turf Yellow Grass T61
The areas of the tile to be grassed over were brushed with moertaely dilute exterior wood glue, with the mix then scattered over from a small plastic tub. After 30 seconds the excess was shaken/tapped off with an electric static grass tool then passed over it to raise the longer 'hairy' fibres. Further excess was shaken/tapped off and then the tile was left to dry.
After drying, excess was brushed away using a 36mm emulsion brush.
The problem with my notes is that they are imprecise. Horrors!!! I don't recall if the listed proportions are by the bag or (more probably) for equivalent volumes. I have to make some more up soon so I'll find out then. ;)
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I am at one with the Gloop. The Gloop is with me.
;)
cheers
James
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I am at one with the Gloop. The Gloop is with me.
;)
cheers
James
Yeh but what I want to know is........how long is your flock!
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Yeh but what I want to know is........how long is your flock!
The way I see it, mate, is the shorter the better.
You can add areas of longer grass later, but cannot do it sensibly in reverse.
;)
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Thanks for the supportive comments chaps, I'm in the process of deciding on paint colours and static grass and I was wondering what length of static grass do you use for your terrain?
Please feel free to chuck up some photos of your work.
For my grass, I use a blend of different flocks and static grasses, all of which I get from https://arcanesceneryandmodels.co.uk/ (https://arcanesceneryandmodels.co.uk/). The recipe includes a few of their own branded ones with some 'railway' ones like Javis Scenics. It's basically various greens, regular flock with some short static grass...
A technique I've developed:
1 - The board is textured with filler, painted, drybrushed up, and given a dark wash.
2 - I apply several patches of a DARKER flock, the ones I use are from Arcane Scenics, one brownish and one purply-green.
3 - The pre-prepared mix of green flocks / grass is applied all over, leaving some bare patches.
4 - Once completely dried, I hit it with a stiff brush, hitting it harder in some places where I want the original ground texture to show through.
5 - Soak it all in watered-down PVA spray, which when dried darkens it (the green flock can look a bit too bright for my liking before this stage).
Tips you could take from this are putting patches of dark grass before covering all with the lighter grass - they do show through subtly and add variety... And using a stiff brush to work the grass away in patches afterwards.
Here's a pic, but it's not great quality and you can't really see the colours properly.
(http://i.imgur.com/K1pOew6.jpg)
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Thanks all for the advice on flocking, well as you can see the board is now completley dry and rock hard.
I've been to b&q and I've got the paint I want so I'm going to start that tonight, I'm looking for a parched Southern European look rather than a more green and pleasant land so let's see how it goes. Once again all comments/advice welcome :)
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Texture looks good Jeff,looking forward to the highlighting results :)
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That should pick up the drybrushing very well.
:)
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Looks like it will do the job nicely :)
For the colouring in, don't be afraid to use different tones and shades of your chosen colour on the same board. You can always knock it back again if you feel it's too much.
cheers
James
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Nice texture!
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Looking good. Looking forward to the next steps.
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First coat of five levels of painting, this coat covers the dark brown of the "gloop" completley which makes me wonder why I didn't paint it this colour initially. Ah well live and learn.
Not much of this colour will be visible in the final finish, just the very deepest levels
Looks like it will do the job nicely :)
For the colouring in, don't be afraid to use different tones and shades of your chosen colour on the same board. You can always knock it back again if you feel it's too much.
cheers
James
Five levels should do it James, the next coat will be painted on but leaving some of this colour grinning through. The three levels after that will all be different levels of dry-brushing.
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Sounds good to me :)
cheers
James
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Ok next stage has been done I'll put a progress photo up when it's dry tomorrow. The next stage now is the dry brushing stage, I'm used to dry brushing on small areas of a figure but I've never done an area as large as a 2'x2' board.
What size brush would you all recommend? And are there any hints and tips out there regarding dry brushing, any pitfalls I should be aware of?
Comments would be appreciated.
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000 W&N should do you fine...
;)
Make sure it's a big brush and that the bristles are soft ad that you take off more paint than you think. There's nothing worse than having a large board and seeing the brush strokes :-X
There are some good decorators brushes and something around an inch and a hal to two inches should do. Don't be afraid to spend a bit on one as it will pay off in the long run.
cheers
James
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Second third fourth and fifth painting stages, flocking next.
What do you think?
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That looks great to me, mate.
Well worth the multiple layers, which is the right way to get a top result with drybrushing.
:-* :-*
Once you have done all of the boards, I would suggest a final layer of a really light shade of drybrushing done all at the same time to help unify them as a whole, as there may be a little bit of difference in colour doing them one at a time.
;)
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Very good :)
How about a few watered down ink washes in a few places. Nothing too regular of course.
cheers
James
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Hard to tell from the pics, Jeff, but looks pretty good from here :)
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Thanks Paul I'll remember that if and when I get to that stage lol.
James will the washes not darken it all back down again?
Couple more photos Richard, tbh I'm not sure about the gloop, I may have a look at pva with sand on top then paint it all as I think the sand granules will be more prominent that way.
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I think thats looking good, I don't think you said what terrain type you were aiming for originally but it looks great for U.S. south west - dry country, which is what I am looking for in the near future.
Do you mind me asking what colours you used, I am hopless with colour matching. :?
Bye the way I'm impressed that you did all that with a '000' brush as Jim suggested. lol
If you do put a wash on will you show a pic as I am curious to see how it comes out.
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Jeff - Yes, as discussed earlier in the thread, you'll get a slightly finer surface texture by sprinkling sand and sealing with thinned PVA over the top.
I never bother, because mostly in the case of my various boards, I cover a lot of the bare 'earth' up with flock etc anyway.
Also, I've always used a decorators' spray gun and compressor to paint my boards - necessitating many thin coats of paint, which tends to preserve the surface texture rather than clogging it.
In the same way, you'd need to use fairly coarse sand to get the additional surface texture - otherwise, by the time you've coated and drybrushed it with emulsion, all the texture gets concealed by the thick paint anyway.
It's going to be interesting when I get to do my planned desert terrain boards, which will largely be bare sand with little vegetation.
I'll still use gloop as a base, but will need to experiment with various 'top dressings' to get the right sandy effect...
A wash would certainly be worth a try. If you use a very thin wash of a darker colour - I mean, like 95% water with just a tiny bit of paint in it - it will run into the recesses and show up a bit more of the texture, but won't appreciably darken the boards overall. You can repeat this treatment until it gives you something you're happy with. The thing with washes is to make them really super thin and build them up to achieve the depth required. But I guess it all depends on the colour terrain you're after... :)
Anyway, the boards look good - it's all a learning process, eh? (And it's better than a fecking upturned Subbuteo cloth! ;))
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Yeah, what Richard said about the wash ;)
cheers
James
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That looks really fantastic! I really like the colour and texture.
I definitely prefer that sort of texture to what you'd get with sand, for what it's worth.
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You can get the same effect with sand sprinkled onto glue. Just go for a finer grain and a wetter PVA so that it 'gathers'. If you want to increase/decrease the granularity just vary the size of grain you sprinkle and/or use a thicker (less dilute) PVA.
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I think thats looking good, I don't think you said what terrain type you were aiming for originally but it looks great for U.S. south west - dry country, which is what I am looking for in the near future.
Do you mind me asking what colours you used, I am hopless with colour matching. :?
Bye the way I'm impressed that you did all that with a '000' brush as Jim suggested. lol
If you do put a wash on will you show a pic as I am curious to see how it comes out.
I want a set of boards that I can use for the Southern States of America, the Spanish Peninsular, African Plains and India. I'm hoping that when flocked these boards will allow me to game in those theatres. So I'm looking for Arid grassland I suppose :)
I was surfing the net (as you do) and I came across a Twitter site belonging to a chap named Jim Ibbotson who had made the boards pictured below. I liked them and I also noticed that he used the boards for various theatres.
The paint colours I have used here are all from Jims site. They come from B&Qs Valspar range of Matt paints. You can get tester pots at three quid a throw.
The first colour used to completley cover the dark brown gloop was Autumn bark (two thinned down coats)
The next colour was called Horsing around (some weird names), this was painted on but the Autumn bark was allowed to grin through in some areas.
The next colour was a heavy drybrush of a colour called Lion's slumber (I am not making these names up lol).
We now switch to Windsor and Newton Acrylics.
The fourth colour was a highlight of W&N acrylic buff titanium.
The final highlight was with W&N mixing white mixed in with the buff titanium, about a 75/25 ratio.
There's a picture of the paints below so you can be sure you are using the same stuff.
And that's where I am right now, contemplating washing the boards :)
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Thanks Richard, reading through your reply I agree that the sand is going to get swallowed up by the emulsion and so I'm going to persevere with the gloop.
I think I'll probably get the other boards done to this stage before I start washing them, that way I'll be able to tie them all in together as suggested by Paul earlier :)
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That looks really fantastic! I really like the colour and texture.
I definitely prefer that sort of texture to what you'd get with sand, for what it's worth.
Thanks Charlie
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Looks really nice. You could also go to your local DIY store and buy structure paint? does that make sense... It is the paint popular in the 70's. Don't know how it is called in English. You can mix it in any colour you want.
Here is a link to a dutch DIY store
https://www.gamma.nl/assortiment/gamma-structuurverf-fijn-wit-10-liter/p/B424151?q=fh_location%3d%2f%2fcatalog01%2fnl_NL%2fcategories%3c%7bcatalog01_catverf%7d%2fcategories%3c%7bcatalog01_catverf_catverf_muurverf%7d%2fcategories%3c%7bcatalog01_catverf_catverf_muurverf_catverf_muurverf_structuurverf%7d%2ffh_item_type%3e%7bproduct%7d%26fh_start_index%3d0%26fh_refview%3dlister%26fh_lister_pos%3d0%26fh_view_size%3d20%26date_time%3d20161230T000000%26fh_modification%3d%26fh_sort%3d-online_status%252C-%2524r3%26fh_secondid%3db_product_b021424151 (https://www.gamma.nl/assortiment/gamma-structuurverf-fijn-wit-10-liter/p/B424151?q=fh_location%3d%2f%2fcatalog01%2fnl_NL%2fcategories%3c%7bcatalog01_catverf%7d%2fcategories%3c%7bcatalog01_catverf_catverf_muurverf%7d%2fcategories%3c%7bcatalog01_catverf_catverf_muurverf_catverf_muurverf_structuurverf%7d%2ffh_item_type%3e%7bproduct%7d%26fh_start_index%3d0%26fh_refview%3dlister%26fh_lister_pos%3d0%26fh_view_size%3d20%26date_time%3d20161230T000000%26fh_modification%3d%26fh_sort%3d-online_status%252C-%2524r3%26fh_secondid%3db_product_b021424151)
Hi use it all the time. Put it on with a brush. stabbing it really on the MDF. let it dry and dry brush over it with budget hobby paints.
(http://i1049.photobucket.com/albums/s390/zju/Hickory%20Flat/samen7.jpg)
Sorry to arrive late to the party.
cheers,
Za
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Used the same technique on this peace.
(http://i1049.photobucket.com/albums/s390/zju/Hickory%20Flat/OHCorral-2_zpsc4893ad3.jpg)
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You can get the same effect with sand sprinkled onto glue. Just go for a finer grain and a wetter PVA so that it 'gathers'. If you want to increase/decrease the granularity just vary the size of grain you sprinkle and/or use a thicker (less dilute) PVA.
If there's one thing I'm learning here Steve it's that there are many ways to get the result you require, all of which have their own merits. It's a case of trying them out and settling on one that suits :)
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Used the same technique on this peace.
(http://i1049.photobucket.com/albums/s390/zju/Hickory%20Flat/OHCorral-2_zpsc4893ad3.jpg)
Lovely texture on those boards Za, and welcome late or not. All comments are helpful :)
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Also, I've always used a decorators' spray gun and compressor to paint my boards - necessitating many thin coats of paint, which tends to preserve the surface texture rather than clogging it.
Have you done any tutorials on painting this way by chance?
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Thanks Jeff that was a really useful and comprehensive reply, appreciate you taking the time.
I see why you liked Jim's board, very nicely done but not over done.
Will you flock with static grass and do you have the electric thingy?
Thanks again
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If there's one thing I'm learning here Steve it's that there are many ways to get the result you require, all of which have their own merits. It's a case of trying them out and settling on one that suits :)
Exactly! Different techniques, components and quantities will provide all sorts of different results. Combining them can give different results in different areas of the board so if desired (user preference being paramount lol) you can help emphasise different areas of terrain (e.g. Track or river bed versus wild ground).
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Jeff, I'd highly recommend the Winsor and Newton inks for the washes (diluted as said above). I use the Peat wash quite a lot. Looking good!
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Have you done any tutorials on painting this way by chance?
Not as such, but here's how it looks when done... You start dark, and gradually lighten each successive coat with small additions of cream colour paint to the mix, so that 6 or 7 thin coats build up the colour. The end result is a bit hard to see from the pics, but it's a lot more subtle than drybrushing, giving a nice even finish, and a realistically dusty look. You need to spray at a low angle to avoid filling in all the recesses and only catching paint on the raised facets...
(http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x69/pantomaniac/IMG_1536.jpg)
(http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x69/pantomaniac/IMG_1539.jpg)
(http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x69/pantomaniac/IMG_1541.jpg)
(http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x69/pantomaniac/IMG_1542.jpg)
(http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x69/pantomaniac/IMG_1569.jpg)
(http://leadadventureforum.com/gallery/6/577_07_08_10_3_28_23_1.JPG)
(http://leadadventureforum.com/gallery/6/577_07_08_10_3_13_15_2.JPG)
(http://leadadventureforum.com/gallery/6/577_07_08_10_3_13_14_0.JPG)
If it's any help, you can see my various terrain projects step by step as follows...
Africa: http://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=20284.0
Temperate: http://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=20284.0
Cave Wars: http://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=76576.0
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Jeff, I'd highly recommend the Winsor and Newton inks for the washes (diluted as said above). I use the Peat wash quite a lot. Looking good!
Steve not sure if you know this or if it really matters but the W&N dark peat ink isn't light fast.
Just in case it's worth bearing in mind:
http://www.winsornewton.com/uk/discover/tips-and-techniques/inks/understanding-the-quality-of-inks (http://www.winsornewton.com/uk/discover/tips-and-techniques/inks/understanding-the-quality-of-inks)
:)
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Jeff, I'd highly recommend the Winsor and Newton inks for the washes (diluted as said above). I use the Peat wash quite a lot. Looking good!
Hmmm I was thinking of using the darkest colour on the board that's visible (so that will be the Autumn bark) and washing like Richard explained earlier in the thread.
Any thoughts anyone?
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Possibly go a shade darker than your base colour for the thin wash, Jeff. That will give added definition to your surface texture. Theoretically! ;)
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Thanks Jeff that was a really useful and comprehensive reply, appreciate you taking the time.
I see why you liked Jim's board, very nicely done but not over done.
Will you flock with static grass and do you have the electric thingy?
Thanks again
My pleasure sir, I'm sort of doing this as I go along so I haven't given flocking much thought. Initally, bearing in mind I want the board colour to show through the flock I was thinking of applying the flock through a food strainer dry. And then mixing up pva and water in a squirty bottle and spraying over the flock sealing it in if you like.
I'm only using 2mm flock so I don't think getting each individual strand to stand up comes into it.
As far as using anything electrical is concerned, I hardly trust myself with a 2" paintbrush.
So I don't think I better go anywhere near electricity and water lol.
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Possibly go a shade darker than your base colour for the thin wash, Jeff. That will give added definition to your surface texture. Theoretically! ;)
Thanks Richard, I could add a little of the dark colour of the gloop to the Autumn bark and see where I go from there. But before I do that I'm thinking I should get the other boards done to the current stage so I can wash them all together.
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I would suggest for the flock that you pva first, apply the flock and then go over it (once dry) with a hoover and a cut off tight in the end. It helps to remove the excess and limits the wastage. If you do it while the glue is still a bit wet some of the strands will stand up.
cheers
James
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I would suggest for the flock that you pva first, apply the flock and then go over it (once dry) with a hoover and a cut off tight in the end. It helps to remove the excess and limits the wastage. If you do it while the glue is still a bit wet some of the strands will stand up.
cheers
James
Ok James, how would you apply the flock? And your message makes no sense after the word Hoover, what's a cut off tight in the end?
Have you been sniffing the pva again, or maybe it's me lol ;D
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A pair of tights with the end cut off, stuck in the noodle of the hoover to stop the flock getting sucked into oblivion ;)
I'd just grab a handful of the flock and dab it in place, leaving a little bit behind with every dab.
cheers
James
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A pair of tights with the end cut off, stuck in the noodle of the hoover to stop the flock getting sucked into oblivion ;)
I'd just grab a handful of the flock and dab it in place, leaving a little bit behind with every dab.
cheers
James
What denier would you recommend James? ;D
Edit: I have a disturbing image of a very, very long pair of tights with massive feet sections.
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I'd say there is nothing wrong with just painting on the PVA and sprinkling / dumping the flock on by hand. Just make sure when you shake all the excess off (there will be A LOT) you can catch it (onto a piece of corrugated card, which can then be easily folded to funnel it back the tub it came form) so you don't waste any.
Thin your PVA down, so it's the consistency of milk. Will hold it fine and dry way quicker than undiluted.
And before you seal it all with the PVA spray, get a stiff brush and hit it hard in areas where you want to wear it away to show the texture beneath.
And you can always go back and put a second layer on in areas where you want thicker grass.
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A pair of tights with the end cut off, stuck in the noodle of the hoover to stop the flock getting sucked into oblivion ;)
I'd just grab a handful of the flock and dab it in place, leaving a little bit behind with every dab.
cheers
James
Ahh right, that makes perfect sense now thank you. Though if Paul or Dirk read this I can see the whole thread plummeting to depths unheard of because of the mention of ladies under crackers lol.
What denier would you recommend James? ;D
Edit: I have a disturbing image of a very, very long pair of tights with massive feet sections.
See what I mean,though I didn't expect this from you Steve ;)
I'd say there is nothing wrong with just painting on the PVA and sprinkling / dumping the flock on by hand. Just make sure when you shake all the excess off (there will be A LOT) you can catch it (onto a piece of corrugated card, which can then be easily folded to funnel it back the tub it came form) so you don't waste any.
Thin your PVA down, so it's the consistency of milk. Will hold it fine and dry way quicker than undiluted.
And before you seal it all with the PVA spray, get a stiff brush and hit it hard in areas where you want to wear it away to show the texture beneath.
And you can always go back and put a second layer on in areas where you want thicker grass.
Thanks for bringing the thread back on track Charlie and I'll have a go at what you suggest, though the thought of using the vacuum cleaner is a good one so maybe I'll do both.
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Thanks Captain. I will go through those again.
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See what I mean,though I didn't expect this from you Steve ;)
You haven't been here long enough ...
lol
cheers
James
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Ahh right, that makes perfect sense now thank you. Though if Paul or Dirk read this I can see the whole thread plummeting to depths unheard of because of the mention of ladies under crackers lol.
>:D >:D
See what I mean,though I didn't expect this from you Steve ;)
You haven't been here long enough ...
lol
Listen to Bibbles, he knows the score.
Me and Dirty Dirky are only joshing with you, it is Balaclave Boy and Lofty that you really have to watch out for.
Those two are dangerous.
You have been warned!
Thanks for bringing the thread back on track Charlie......
That bit made me laugh more than the rest.
Back on track?
Indeed......
lol lol lol
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Regarding the washes: Just do what the good Captain says and build them up gradually with thin washes.
Easier to gently build them up to the colour that you want them to have to dull them down by overdoing it.
Another option, to really muddy the waters, is to apply a thin coat of water to the area then add a small amount of ink/paint to it and spread it out as desired. This way you can gradually fade the wash into the surrounding colour.
You probably did not need to hear another option, though, did you?
;D
As for flocking: I would just apply glue, add a little flock by sprinkling and wait to dry.
Brush off any excess and take a look at the result.
If you want to increase the density of the flock simply repeat the process until you are happy.
If there is too much flock just brush it again as you will keep removing some every time it is brushed until you seal it.
For the record: I have never used any form of hosiery whilst applying flock. 'Burlesque Bibbles' is is just weird....
I bet the next time you do a terrain project you wont ask for any advice as you are probably receiving far too many options by now.
:D
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Steve not sure if you know this or if it really matters but the W&N dark peat ink isn't light fast.
Just in case it's worth bearing in mind:
http://www.winsornewton.com/uk/discover/tips-and-techniques/inks/understanding-the-quality-of-inks (http://www.winsornewton.com/uk/discover/tips-and-techniques/inks/understanding-the-quality-of-inks)
:)
I didn't know that. I've been using it for about ten years and hadn't noticed but my stuff isn't out in natural light much. It was recommended by another friend who has been using it for even longer. I'll have to have a read of that as it might change my usage. Thanks.
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I didn't know that. I've been using it for about ten years and hadn't noticed but my stuff isn't out in natural light much. It was recommended by another friend who has been using it for even longer. I'll have to have a read of that as it might change my usage. Thanks.
No worries Steve. I used to use it on minis then discovered by chance that only the black (?) is permanent. Mine are in glass fronted cabinets (albeit not direct sunlight) so I stopped using it just in case. I can't tell you how quickly it fades (if at all to my untrained eye) as the minis with it on are long gone.
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When I've used it on miniatures I've varnished over it so that may have helped. On terrain it's been heavily drybrushed.
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Regarding the washes: Just do what the good Captain says and build them up gradually with thin washes.
Easier to gently build them up to the colour that you want them to have to dull them down by overdoing it.
Another option, to really muddy the waters, is to apply a thin coat of water to the area then add a small amount of ink/paint to it and spread it out as desired. This way you can gradually fade the wash into the surrounding colour.
You probably did not need to hear another option, though, did you?
;D
As for flocking: I would just apply glue, add a little flock by sprinkling and wait to dry.
Brush off any excess and take a look at the result.
If you want to increase the density of the flock simply repeat the process until you are happy.
If there is too much flock just brush it again as you will keep removing some every time it is brushed until you seal it.
For the record: I have never used any form of hosiery whilst applying flock. 'Burlesque Bibbles' is is just weird....
I bet the next time you do a terrain project you wont ask for any advice as you are probably receiving far too many options by now.
:D
Cheers Mucka,
In fairness all the advice has been great, you hear people regularly saying things like wash this or drybrush that but it's rare to get a really detailed description of what people actually do or the materials they use.
I'll just take what I can from the advice and see how it turns out with the tools and materials I'm using.
I'm going to take my time with the washes and the flocking coz I think they are going to be the areas that are going to be seen the most.
First of all I need to get the rest of the boards done to this stage which in between painting figures is going to take a little time.
I will definitely come back to the thread when I start the washing and flocking stages. I also have to decide what to do about tabletop terrain pieces, what to make integral to the boards and what to make separately to place on the board.
Descisions descisions, it's a good hobby lnit ;D
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A great thread - one of the best things about LAF is people's generosity with their time and advice.
8)