Lead Adventure Forum
Miniatures Adventure => Age of Myths, Gods and Empires => Topic started by: chema1986 on January 10, 2017, 06:36:49 PM
-
Hello folks, I would like to know if is any manufacturer which produces arab, berber, nomad or similar cavalry that can be used as Lahkmid Arab cavalry, allied to the Sassanids. Those Lakhmids fought with the Sassanids in most battles against eastern Romans in IV-VI ad centuries i guess. I am talking about 28mm miniatures. Maybe Artizan Moors? Footsore ? Gripping Beast? Mixing some sassanid helmets or equipment?
And same with Ghassanid allied to Rome
Many thanks in advance
Cheers
Chema
-
I think Lakhmid cavalry would mostly resemble Sassanids. Personally, I have used some Aventine Sassanid horses and lower bodies with Gripping Beast Arab HC or LC upper bodies. Also for variety I have used GB late Roman, Saxon and Viking heads. I am not sure if anyone makes great figures for pre-Islamic Arab tribal cavalry (probably mostly armed with spears and/or javelins). . I might recommend GB Arab light cavalry, but I think the horses are too big and most of the heads are Turkish or medieval Arabs (with turbans). Maybe some combination of GB Arabs with Victrix Numidians might work.
-
[Mod Edit: Careful with copyrighted material, please.]
For cavalry I don't have an immediate answer but I toyed with an idea for pre-islamic infantry.
Perry's Sudanese Tribesmen with either plastic Arab heads from Gripping Beast or greenstuffed headwear.
Then for Lakhmids I'd go for an Aventine Sassanid head & shield here and there; and some Desert frontier (Lozenge & Rectangle) shields from GB. For leader types you can take an Aventine Sassanian with perhaps a headswap or GS turban.
Ghassanids could get Roman accassories like round & oval shields (with perhaps a Notitia Dignitatum design thrown in there) alongside the Desert Frontier (Lozenge & Rectangle) shields from GB. And some WestWind or GB plastic Late Roman heads. Leader types can be any Late Roman with adequate (or modified) headdress.
Now if the Perry's did a plastic Sudanese cavalry box, then I would do the same.
Hope this somewhat helps :)
-
Many thanks guys for your quick answers ;) Yes you are right, I saw that Osprey artwork and wasnt able to find a Sassanid "medium" cavalry without the annoying "globe hat". I thought using Artizan berbers with Sassanid shields ( lbms decals ) and some light conversion. Thanks to the plastics avaliable Ghassanid infantry and foot arab are not a big deal with those sudanese and late roman. I also saw Aventine Levy with late Roman shields and looked quite good. Thanks again!
Cheers
Chema
-
In addition to previous suggestions you may want to look at A&A's range - Palmyrans and Sassanids as well as mid-3rd century Romans. The pack camel in the Palmyran range is a splendid figure. I like the Sassanid infantry command pack (shame about the globe hats!).
-
... I toyed with an idea for pre-islamic infantry.
Perry's Sudanese Tribesmen with either plastic Arab heads from Gripping Beast or greenstuffed headwear
I did something like that, but I used a Gripping Beast Dark Ages Warrior head and added long hair. I ended up with something that looked like the Bedouin tribesmen from Byzantine sculpture.
-
I think these may be valid for a command group... Aventine early Sassanid light cavalry command group
http://www.aventineminiatures.co.uk/catalog/product_info.php/cPath/53_113_116/products_id/570
-
I put together a bunch of units of Ghassanid and Lakhmid cavalry for the Society of Ancients Battle Day some years back. My solution was to user a variety of figures from Perry and Footsore miniatures, mostly unarmoured. This did cause some consternation as apparently there shouldn't be turbans that early; bare heads or at most simple "head-wraps". I decided to just squint and call the turbans head-wraps...
(http://memberfiles.freewebs.com/21/23/78472321/photos/undefined/DSC_5940.JPG)
I had fun researching possible Arab standards, as possibly both groups were Christians (of different varieties) back then. Mostly used early Arab rock art IIRC.
(http://memberfiles.freewebs.com/21/23/78472321/photos/undefined/King%20Arethas%2002.jpg)
(http://memberfiles.freewebs.com/21/23/78472321/photos/undefined/King%20Arethas%2001.jpg)
-
Nice figs mate, yes you are right, the turbans are muy only complaint. If they had wore a Sassanid helmet, they would have been almost perfect ( and no stirrups )
-
I think these may be valid for a command group... Aventine early Sassanid light cavalry command group
http://www.aventineminiatures.co.uk/catalog/product_info.php/cPath/53_113_116/products_id/570
They look the part allright 8)
If you're interested, I've found a small piece on the Lakhmid military if your interested:
https://books.google.be/books?id=SdrtpZQphYUC&pg=PA80&lpg=PA80&dq=dawsar+meaning&source=bl&ots=fhD4xry0dS&sig=HRNwgX--p5Urhfw9-3A4ZsH2dh8&hl=nl&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiEx5iTusfRAhVB2RoKHUFNDUgQ6AEIYDAI#v=onepage&q=dawsar%20meaning&f=false (https://books.google.be/books?id=SdrtpZQphYUC&pg=PA80&lpg=PA80&dq=dawsar+meaning&source=bl&ots=fhD4xry0dS&sig=HRNwgX--p5Urhfw9-3A4ZsH2dh8&hl=nl&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiEx5iTusfRAhVB2RoKHUFNDUgQ6AEIYDAI#v=onepage&q=dawsar%20meaning&f=false)
It starts on page 79, note 215.
-
HI guys, 2 years and a half from last post in this thread...
I have update my blog with some ideas and a tutorial of converting miniatures
https://spanishleadpainting.blogspot.com/2020/05/28mm-conversions-lakhmid-arab-cavalry.html
I will post here some pics, not all, because some content is copyrighted, other pics are from books I own, and I have take pics from them:
I decided to use a mixture of Gripping beast plastic Arab heavy cavalry, and Armorum & Aquila Sassanids horse archers in armor. There is also a metal javelinman cut in half and converted into swordsman with bow.
The plastic kit is quite versatile, I used the horses provided in it for all miniatures, and the lower half of the riders for a couple of miniatures, but I cut and sanded the stirrups in order to eliminate them (they would appear a century later )
The plastic bodies are nice, with lamellar armor, perfect for this project, as I have seen depictions of Lakhmids using it.
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-sF2NUPXH00E/XtFODo8uiXI/AAAAAAAADK4/DeE-W4pO8VMM6qOA6rF5PU7mFnnTC7qFwCLcBGAsYHQ/s1600/IMG_3350.JPG)
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-y6Np5dY7Q-c/XtFOSjU3fVI/AAAAAAAADLA/EXnCQF-1dGkzsuBNSX5XCahOuSzNjyb4gCLcBGAsYHQ/s1600/IMG_3357.JPG)
example of Lakhmid cavalry in videogame "Attila Total War", just for painting inspiration, but showing an interesting variety of equipment.
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-ssayUrD6_bU/XtDl-O6sepI/AAAAAAAADJ4/RyDNJEBSASwSsbRlKmcAmtll1YW6wpPKACLcBGAsYHQ/s1600/descarga.jpg)
Also some heads are suitable for Lakhmids, like the plastic Sassanian style helmet, or the metal helmet with a cloth surrounding it (to prevent the heat in the metal helmet). It seem in that era turbans were not used, so I avoided turbans and other stuff more proper to the crusades era (like muslim curved swords or later types quivers for arrows etc).
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-cQFntDoJkT8/XtEY7ZK6IUI/AAAAAAAADKc/V5lpcDYCIuEa0j47rKCC7PeDuT-N2kddgCPcBGAYYCw/s1600/IMG_3301%2B%2528editado%2529.JPG)
In this image of Spanish magazine "Desperta Ferro" you can see a Muslim warrior (left) fighting a Sassanid champion (right), although is a century later than battles between Belisarius and the Sassanids, the equipment probably was very similar, I am referring to the clothed metal helmet of the Arab.
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-JffRycgkqHA/XtFO5Sh_reI/AAAAAAAADLQ/dz9aOxRJ4EYfTiONt8M2QF7lY3eKKAT2QCLcBGAsYHQ/s1600/IMG_3351.JPG)
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-Md-dFkQthjw/XtFO5dYKtII/AAAAAAAADLU/LSX4DQAHMkEJY7Eayprty8dtSMtgqPvnwCLcBGAsYHQ/s1600/IMG_3352.JPG)
this guy is a Sassanid body (Sassanid provided most of the equipment and weapons of Lakhmids) with an Arab head, with a similar helmet of the previous illustration and screenshot of the videogame "Attila Total War".
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-QrfPl204NYc/XtEY7aMY57I/AAAAAAAADKg/EX8C_Yx3g-sSe76uWZTmZ8JZY7Wc8hCZwCPcBGAYYCw/s1600/IMG_3300%2B%2528editado%2529.JPG)
This well equiped horse archers is similar to my noble or officer :
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-L3QmfBkivE0/XtFPX_YjSrI/AAAAAAAADLk/kdqiwVCcH5M8r6XmBEDUmTRWymA4OhvsQCLcBGAsYHQ/s1600/IMG_3355.JPG)
and the last guy, a more common warrior...
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-q0fZsE1ixn0/XtFPgdLfT_I/AAAAAAAADLo/4w0qfatPGrMtG68KTxT0KpnXlTys_NQPgCLcBGAsYHQ/s1600/IMG_3353.JPG)
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-jycaYDFS4Sg/XtFPgVVXdUI/AAAAAAAADLs/RBIr0vmmJzsw0mDcKCdjJwRLCtET_ODjQCLcBGAsYHQ/s1600/IMG_3354.JPG)
Finally, you can see here, in the good old Warhammer Ancients Battles supplement, a brief description of the Lakhmids in Wargames, as they appear in several rule sets and army lists as "Arab cavalry" and other similar names.
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-Jace59kYj7o/XtEY8Tf8D4I/AAAAAAAADKY/OR8JbRIWpfw5eaYo5GmXFWAT6i8cdURDACLcBGAsYHQ/s1600/IMG_3348.JPG)
Cheers!
-
I'm afraid I've been looking for Lakhmid or Ghassanid figures for many years. Your various conversions are all quite inspirational. I rather hoped the new Aventine 6th century Byzantine range would cover "early" Arabs but apparently not. Pre 9/10th century Arabs or other N Africans ( except Numidians) seem to be a gap in the market. Gripping Beast used to produce a range called , I think "The Desert Frontier" but it seems to have disappeared.
-
" I rather hoped the new Aventine 6th century Byzantine range would cover "early" Arabs but apparently not."
We have decided to add some cavalry covering just this as allies and enemies for our range, thanks to discussions with another poster on this forum, we looked at what is known and found enough to inspire Adam into tackling a small range. I hope this helps.
Cheers
Keith
Aventine Miniatiures
-
Keith, great news. I'll stop pestering you now and wait. I think they will be a welcome addition to both the Byzantine and Sassanid armies plus maybe even an army in their own right. No-one produces a range of true Arab Conquest figures for the 7th century.
Can you say when the Byzantine infantry range will be finished?
-
Adam delivered another set of Eastern Infantry in extra heavy, heavy and medium armours yesterday but I have not yet had the time to make the production moulds (too many orders still flowing in). He has another batch 90% ready and they should appear next week as well, that leaves the slingers which he has been working on already so another week maybe for them and that finishes it. Cavalry will start immediately after the slingers are added to the store.
Cheers
keith
-
I'm afraid I've been looking for Lakhmid or Ghassanid figures for many years. Your various conversions are all quite inspirational. I rather hoped the new Aventine 6th century Byzantine range would cover "early" Arabs but apparently not. Pre 9/10th century Arabs or other N Africans ( except Numidians) seem to be a gap in the market. Gripping Beast used to produce a range called , I think "The Desert Frontier" but it seems to have disappeared.
Many thanks, yes, a pitty about GB Desert frontier range...
-
" I rather hoped the new Aventine 6th century Byzantine range would cover "early" Arabs but apparently not."
We have decided to add some cavalry covering just this as allies and enemies for our range, thanks to discussions with another poster on this forum, we looked at what is known and found enough to inspire Adam into tackling a small range. I hope this helps.
Cheers
Keith
Aventine Miniatiures
Wooooooooooooow great news! Thanks Keith If I had known that, I would not have converted these hahaha, I will paint them anyway and buy yours too lol
Aventine Late Antiquity range is becoming my wargame favourite range (along with North star 1672!)
Cheers
-
Arabs of the 6 - 7th Century period are one of the largest remaining gaps in the market, which is strange for such an important subject. Newline do a few packs which they advertise for this period but they seem to wear garb that is more appropriate for a later era.
-
What an interesting thread. I want to put together a couple of Arab units in 15mm. Now I know what to look for.
-
Adam delivered another set of Eastern Infantry in extra heavy, heavy and medium armours yesterday but I have not yet had the time to make the production moulds (too many orders still flowing in). He has another batch 90% ready and they should appear next week as well, that leaves the slingers which he has been working on already so another week maybe for them and that finishes it. Cavalry will start immediately after the slingers are added to the store.
Well, you know I'm in! :)
Can't wait to see them Keith 8)
-
HI guys, 2 years and a half from last post in this thread...
[Redacted]
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-QrfPl204NYc/XtEY7aMY57I/AAAAAAAADKg/EX8C_Yx3g-sSe76uWZTmZ8JZY7Wc8hCZwCPcBGAYYCw/s1600/IMG_3300%2B%2528editado%2529.JPG)
[Redacted]
Cheers!
Nice work! Which book did the above image come from? It looks like an interesting reference...
-
I used a select range of A & A helmeted figures for the sassanid and some Roman cavalry
-
Nice work! Which book did the above image come from? It looks like an interesting reference...
Hi mate, the book is "An Illustrated Encyclopedia of the Uniforms of the Roman World"
Is very nice, full of colour profiles, although mostly copied from Osprey books.
-
Thanks!
Re. Gripping Beast's desert frontier figures, i.e. the ones with javelins and large shields, their reply from mid-March was to the effect that the moulds were not then in a condition to be spun, and that the figures would be remastered, but not until later this year.
-
Excellent news. From memory they were very useful figures so I'm more than happy to wait for re-mastered models.
-
Hello guys!
Finally , since 2020, I managed to finish my Lakhmid cavalry for my Sassanid army.
Here you have the first post with the history and conversion process:
https://spanishleadpainting.blogspot.com/2020/05/28mm-conversions-lakhmid-arab-cavalry.html
and here the new one:
https://spanishleadpainting.blogspot.com/2023/05/28mm-lakhmid-arab-cavalry-sassanid.html
The miniatures are a mixture of Gripping beast plastic Arab heavy cavalry, Armorum & Aquila Sassanids horse archers in armor. I painted them mostly in Vallejo and Foundry paints in triads.
(https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEidBkjk6xQFHfvxs8wwhZdAj0UdWWpq_DfYL9AFdqSrbjuyQKwIKCf27TU6qhNJ5AVMCv-5JJIFzUasMu6UsBF40n3ZAMlpscqGJ_-SPtkJ697ubXpKySec4SU89e1sqlqDBgNRMRRiCjSrHuAlG-mZmUdwJf3GuTzajNhRwSh_WY2ddo10458NlQOF_Q/s2048/IMG_6667.JPEG)
I started the painting process in early March, but an eyes operation prevented me to finish the unit until May! I tried to use earthy and warm tones, like the illustration above, I also painted a couple of horse saddle with leopard skin like the noble warrior of the illustration.
The shields are A&A with Little big men studios decals from their Sassanid range.
The plastic horses are nice and pleasant to paint, also the plastic rider, which , in my opinion, is a good miniature compared with other plastic kits from Gripping Beast.
The unit is based for Impetus or Basic Impetus, like the rest of my late antiquity armies.
I hope you like them!
(https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEj6NU4ONniOCPaixlt48wy144qOODa74-ea_FJrIkKsKPml6O37V5zseoUjqZoP1koHd9NO1hctZwee0-TGufBenDaHdnFqyYCuubAVIsmjnwtoqmqGvgQNKou55yTM_U5mbvdGIVFDh82-8xuHIePw-7reswWFV6yzyIwdap-nfzfB1mteosOFIrHvmA/s2048/IMG_6671.JPEG)
(https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEg1uD7yY1QKUqWY2SELhCDw2Ss-6UwnWCb2Y78WTXXXp_bBPJEjcRSbaImN6eueo0xdXAcTxSqLZOOja4TOhctYGgLpTiZPzOVX7j5FmVMbG8PzzvFuyfr5oyG8Cw_QImxP_IwBofGlatTecIUB7Wer5CleI4mHGaEcg42Bt-W0xNmazUNkOnT2shQm9g/s2048/IMG_6670.JPEG)
(https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEihCt6R_NgDUgEBUVmi9dtHTDxSu_9AQaerjUGtx3JVRqaYx9A4diPYrmL8qyB-0mN21acmmAA9pj_mtNZ-ou3grcVM4bPBJg15G1uac_p1a6LtKkwXddrVIsx_lKX_jPu9Bb0kCWgpHUMS6qqyNvIrcaK2IA6okyybYr9tfEQt1xm6n7g42RnYkEiS1g/s2048/IMG_6665.JPEG)
(https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgxMF_olbsXfBCaqvgkLx_YzfpwAQomfUKzCw9nLcWEmjctmvSC4GzSyFkIcjLwOiNtOVDD2tDQM8M9oL3vWNpJjWZqkqbkfSwWyHF2QUyCWPMKoAmyfL3qsLfbzQ5m8hSM7O5TI9rjdskGUsy9DtxZR63ajq10WgTAr3zb0VF5ICDYX7PdGrC3_GbQUA/s2048/IMG_6663.JPEG)
(https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEj6EGYfiCp64obuS_OkXubdnZGWLiRQeT2ljmiObIqgHTNvA1ez9c9JoLPAGcivvdXJUIunNgUcPvJGQFBMgfSUcF9mqHhfw5TYc77NfgjrhoxTuKqWOu30RjtPdsZ2mAWzHIsamC_k8uusulVV6f_1mCh2wRXLE6kzOlQ8l_7uWdHpwV2PF5kkUDaYQA/s2048/IMG_6661.JPEG)
(https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEg6gTS6R1MFif73D0NsCIfKGAj6Ah1K9U8LIt8Xj8vg1pe_jJjTsveaLQePXattevR6_D8YAsZ3paOTihBQ2XXqXkP3DLd3jXqN5-VnOaHo0oeerfuxThtIsFhdehy8Ao4gjma9-SU1K0RlMc5fz7hVghfxlyhiq6zjlTgDGYuA5fL7uZLBE0Ab6ThmDQ/s2048/IMG_6659.JPEG)
(https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhrYUTvK24XaIEk6DLZDNcLRH_DyZ98R_HMwFywZZ414WHX_fGWrvMtIRUCR2jwrJTwuRz9EE6etDX3S00_b_AwPVLiPqABb4jxCBpVsrZo8CB-hkkUuKCs6M16_KLelaefFu1pGpz4xBLpZg9fcRBbPWVxi4xwn74IRI4NFLYqPATGXh34_4JR0f_jAA/s2048/IMG_6642.JPEG)
Cheers
-
Fabulous conversion and brushwork :-* :-* :-*
-
lovely paintjobs and basing.
-
Fabulous conversion and brushwork :-* :-* :-*
Many thanks Sir!
-
lovely paintjobs and basing.
Many thanks :D
-
Lovely brushwork. :-* :-* :-*
-
Very nice. I just wish Aventine had produced the small range they mentioned. From what I know of their release plan its disappeared! I have a complete Aventine 6th century Byzantine army to paint so may follow your example in converting some Lakhmids.....plus they can be used as Ghassanids for my Sassanids!
-
Very nice. I just wish Aventine had produced the small range they mentioned. From what I know of their release plan its disappeared! I have a complete Aventine 6th century Byzantine army to paint so may follow your example in converting some Lakhmids.....plus they can be used as Ghassanids for my Sassanids!
Probably a decision based on the viability of sales. That would be my guess anyway SJWi.
-
Very nice. I just wish Aventine had produced the small range they mentioned. From what I know of their release plan its disappeared! I have a complete Aventine 6th century Byzantine army to paint so may follow your example in converting some Lakhmids.....plus they can be used as Ghassanids for my Sassanids!
Thank you ! Yes, I awaited some pre islamic arabs for my late antiquity armies, but they never came! so I had to convert some.
Maybe you find useful my idea for Ghassanids... using Angus Mc Bride's illustration of ghassanid troops, i bought a sprue of Perry plastic Mahdist ansar tribesmen, and will use late roman heads and cane shields or oval scutums, as well as a paper banner of Ghassanid "flag" I found somewhere.
Cheers!