Lead Adventure Forum
Miniatures Adventure => Pikes, Muskets and Flouncy Shirts => Topic started by: Dalauppror on January 14, 2017, 03:05:56 PM
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(https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-FqpVbw1tNdg/WHaHYhcwQKI/AAAAAAAALB0/ouFNemBuKVwwv3swC37HAQjsog6mFFE4wCLcB/s1600/IMG_0930.gif)
Hi
About 18 month ago I and Dan Mersey posts that we would join up and make a Pike and Shot rules in the Osprey Wargaming serie. Our final product The Pikeman's Lament are now due to be published on the 26 January 2017. i know that some shops already have got them in stock, North Star and possible Orcs Nest in London.
I have a bunch of blogposts and aar's at My blog for the Pikeman's Lament (https://dalauppror.blogspot.se/search/label/The%20Pikeman´s%20Lament?m=0)
(https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-WDfkN0h2mP8/WHaCNinT9wI/AAAAAAAALA4/eCiLOf3bmCkZkQ_mEQrh-jeI9FDmjV5qgCLcB/s1600/Pikemans-lament-advert.gif)
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I have been following your work on this and I'm looking forward to this. The order is already in for it. :)
It will be another excuse to get my big 15mm ECW collection on the table - although I'll have the use the DBx basing not the very nice separate system you use. Smaller actions and interesting scenarios should make for some fun games - I hope.
Likely will be an excuse to paint up some more figs as well. :)
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Yes, I will definitely be buying this!
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Got my copy earlier this week, if you like Lion Rampant (which I do) you'll love this :)
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Should be fun stuff!
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@jeff965
Glad you already got it and like them! Thanks!
@melllis1644
Would be nice and impressive to see the units made up of 12 and 6 DBx bases
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Hi
I have posted some more gaming pictures and a bit info regarding Trotters and gallopers in the Pikeman´s Lament rules. at my blog. (http://dalauppror.blogspot.se/2017/01/11-days-to-release-cavalry-clash-tyw-aar.html)
(https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-53QMD3Zko_8/WHs3m_CZlEI/AAAAAAAALEw/Lj_1yt6TrRs5BVi4Mp_eU9Fo07oXvRNjACLcB/s400/IMG_0961.gif)
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A lovely looking game. I can't wait to get these rules, my Ottomans all all ready and my Imperialists and Poles just need basing.
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Congratulations on your publication, Michael :)
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I couldn't find anything about the periods this rules cover. Is it only TYW, ECW until Great Northern?
Or is Italian War and WotR also covered?
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Congratulations on your publication, Michael :)
Thanks !!!
And a big thank you for your help with pictures if your lovely painted minis.
I hope you have got a copy from Isprey of the rules, if not, give it one ir two more weeks an then let me know and i sort it out.
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I couldn't find anything about the periods this rules cover. Is it only TYW, ECW until Great Northern?
Or is Italian War and WotR also covered?
The rules are set 1618-1721 but they should work fine for erlier periods to as the italian war. We even have used them for napoleonic gaming.
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I hope you have got a copy from Isprey of the rules, if not, give it one ir two more weeks an then let me know and i sort it out.
Not yet, but I am looking forward to seeing them and giving them a try :)
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Dalauppror,
There is quite a bit of discussion on TMP regarding pike formations in skirmish scenarios (were they used, if so were they effective); can you elaborate on how the rules for pikes and formations work?
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Dalauppror,
There is quite a bit of discussion on TMP regarding pike formations in skirmish scenarios (were they used, if so were they effective); can you elaborate on how the rules for pikes and formations work?
Hi Codsticker
I noticed that ther was some diskussionsinlägg TMP on that matter, but I don't really want to get involved as this is a game and not a perfect simulation of real combat. But you can't have a pike and shot game without pikes and after all it is all about imagination and scale. For example, in the Pikeman's Lament a pike unit at full strengh are 12 minis, if you count the minis at a 1:1 scale 12 pikeman might not have been optionall, but the "army" in the rules are called Companies so If you should be true historical all your units in your company should be pikemen... But that might not be to fun to game... So as the Pikeman's Lament are a game it work fine to field 12 pikeman and if you really have a problem with that use a 1:5 or 1:10 scale then your 12 pikemen represent 60 or 120 pikemen :)
It is all about what gives a good game and your imagination, if you want a true simulation to reallity then The Pikeman's Lament are not a game for you, But if you like a good, Swift and entertaining game that gives you enjoyable pike and shot games the the Pikeman's Lament sure is for you.
Hope My novell helped you out and gave some ideeas about how i think regarding the Pikeman's Lament rules.
best regards Michael
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We have been looking forward to the release of The Pikeman's Lament here, which does not happen until late Jan. in the States. We have also enjoyed the AAR on your blog.
Thanks,
Herb
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Thanks Herd! I really hope you Will like the rules when they arrive :)
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Hi Codsticker
I noticed that ther was some diskussionsinlägg TMP on that matter, but I don't really want to get involved as this is a game and not a perfect simulation of real combat. But you can't have a pike and shot game without pikes and after all it is all about imagination and scale. For example, in the Pikeman's Lament a pike unit at full strengh are 12 minis, if you count the minis at a 1:1 scale 12 pikeman might not have been optionall, but the "army" in the rules are called Companies so If you should be true historical all your units in your company should be pikemen... But that might not be to fun to game... So as the Pikeman's Lament are a game it work fine to field 12 pikeman and if you really have a problem with that use a 1:5 or 1:10 scale then your 12 pikemen represent 60 or 120 pikemen :)
It is all about what gives a good game and your imagination, if you want a true simulation to reallity then The Pikeman's Lament are not a game for you, But if you like a good, Swift and entertaining game that gives you enjoyable pike and shot games the the Pikeman's Lament sure is for you.
Hope My novell helped you out and gave some ideeas about how i think regarding the Pikeman's Lament rules.
best regards Michael
Thank you for responding Micheal. I totally appreciate the nature of the Lion Rampant/Pikeman's Lament rules. I have actually played a couple of games using Lion Rampant adapted to the ECW as I like the mechanics. As I game the ECW, actions involving small companies is quite common and I am excited to get some games in with these rules.
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Congrats on the publication Michael! Well done!
Need to get these rules once they reach my FLGS :)
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@melllis1644
Would be nice and impressive to see the units made up of 12 and 6 DBx bases
I have enough for that with a 2 player game. I would look good and will have to try it. :)
However, I may do 4 bases for an infantry unit and 2 bases per cav unit and try some multi-player games. I'll read the rules first but it may be the later that will allow a 6 player con game in March...
Maybe ECW Scots vs. Royalists in an interesting scenario. :)
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Maybe ECW Scots vs. Royalists in an interesting scenario. :)
I have article in Wargames soldier and stararegy issu 87 for the Pikeman's Lament:
"The Swedish influence on the Battle of Newburn"
‘Is he for real?’ you must think. ‘Does he really mean that the Swedes were involved in the prelude to the English Civil War?’ Finding a Swedish connection was hard but eventually I managed to find some interesting information regarding how Sweden influenced the start of the English Civil War .
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I've always fancied dipping my tow into gaming this era. I had Warlords Pike and Shotte, which seem fine rules but I was a bit daunted by the scale th we seemed to advocate. I tentatively started getting some 10mm figs but they have stayed in their baggies.
I'm a big fan of the Rampant games so this is very appealing. And I can get some lovely 28s to game ECW skirmishes from around my local area.
A another project begins..
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Just read through some of the posts on your blog and this set of rules is going to have to go on The List to be bought when possible, as I've got some ECW/TYW (mostly Warlord) around but not enough figures to do FoG:R or other big-battle rules.
Skirmish and "big skirmish" rules are more my thing anyway and these look to satisfy that!
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Greate to here that the rules might get more wargamers in to the pike and shot era 😃
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I have used Lion Rampant successfuly for Swiss / Burgundy Wars (1474-77).
Would The Pikeman's Lament be a significant improvement or would there be little difference in play?
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I would say they will play quite differently as they are for very different styles of games, large battle or skirmish. Having played both Lion Rampant and Black Powder/Pike and Shotte, Pikeman's Lament will play faster, with more back-and-forth between the commanders (easier to end a player's turn in the LR rules family); I imagine PL will have figure removal whereas P&S does not; you will be rolling more dice in combat. In all ways, more suitable for a skirmish set of rules (if you look through Michael's blog you will see that you can have a 24pt Company quickly and cheaply by using a box of Warlord's plastic Firelocks).
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Excited about these,can't wait for my copy to arrive .
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More like "Luther Rampant" :D
It'll be as popular as the previous ones ;)
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Or Lutheran Rampant... sound slike a convention game. :D
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My copy arrived. Very nice job Michael. Only a few of my pics made it in, but they have come out well :)
I suppose I'd better try a game!
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My copy arrived yesterday. Start reading. In the moment I'm not sure, if I will try it. The rules for pikes are not deep enough for my taste. It is a good game for fast playing, I think. Excellent for small games and gamers that not like the complexity of Warlords Pike&Shot. The pictures inside are great, better than most of the Osprey Wargames.
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My copy arrived. Very nice job Michael. Only a few of my pics made it in, but they have come out well :)
I suppose I'd better try a game!
Glad you got the book at last, still waiting here i Sweden. Thanks again for your help with pictures, appreciated!
Looking forward to here what you think then you had you test game, AAR an pictures maybe :)
Have a Greate weekend!
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Had my copy for a couple of weeks already and i liked it.
Never played this period before but am busy painting models for a large Dutch 80 year war project.
I realised my Pike & Shotte army in progress makes almost exactly two companies! So i have both sides. being pike and shotte means uniforms are not really present so it fits. I'm going to paint 1/2 units red and 1/2 blue from now on so i can lament them when needed :)
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A couple of weeks...
Glad you liked them, hope you still like them after a few games, suppouse its a matter of if you Win or not ;)
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Hi
I just posted links at My blog (https://dalauppror.blogspot.se/2017/01/2-days-to-release-gaming-resourses.html?m=0) to the different game rosters as well a QRS that didn't make it in to the rulebook.
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-D7ONR65cfBE/WIZ1cvy_9PI/AAAAAAAALLg/8U05aQgsrzQucsdXWqufRHqe9Tg4kp2zwCLcB/s1600/roosters-noback.gif)
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Could this be used with Lion Rampant to do Italian Renaissance period? Inquiring Landsknechts want to know.
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I'm a happy bunny as these might give me a set of rules for my Tudor forces.
I'm also nervous that these might jump-start my long-dormant ECW project, for which half a ton of lead lies slumbering in the basement.
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Could this be used with Lion Rampant to do Italian Renaissance period? Inquiring Landsknechts want to know.
Hi
Sorry but i don't really get you question.
The Pikeman's Lament are officiellt set in 1618-1721 but the rules are generic and easy to adapt so to use them during the 16th to full 18th century wouldent be any problem. I My self have during our development and playtest used them for Nordic Seven year War as vell as for swedish liberation war in the 1520's, Also in american war of independense and napoleonic games. Just need a Little bit of tweeaking ;)
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The previous suggestion about using DBA bases instead of individual figures has got me thinking...hmmm, what about using multiple 10mm figs on 30mm square bases for each 'figure'?
You know what, I think that would look great.
Very tempting...VERY tempting...
Would look impressive....
I have used 28mm minis 4 on each 40x40mm Base and counting each base as 2 minis, 6 bases to a 12 man unit, look good and are easy to handle, Tried it with 1 base with 4 minis as 1 mini i.e. 12 bases in a pike unit (48 minis) looks exellent but take longer to play as there are so much more to move and you might need a Bigger table...
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Sounds like you have a plan indeed :)
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Good luck with this Michael - having dipped my big toe into ECW last year we have had some great ECW battles in the shed using Pike & Shotte
I'll pick up a copy of your rules in the near future and give them a crack
all the best
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Thanks Eric !
I hope you like them :o
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Good luck with this Michael - having dipped my big toe into ECW last year we have had some great ECW battles in the shed using Pike & Shotte
I'll pick up a copy of your rules in the near future and give them a crack
all the best
Would be great, when you do a comparison again ( like the men.../black powder)
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My copy came in the mail today.
I like what I see.
Great photos of people's figures.
Will be reading the rules tonight.
Can't wait to get a game in.
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Hi
Hope the rules are to your satisfaction.
Please also have a look at David´s blog "I live with Cats" (http://ilivewithcats.blogspot.se/2017/01/the-pikmeans-lament-review.html) he have done a Review of the rulea as well as a really greate QRS.
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Dalauppror- You mentioned in a now locked thread that you didn't think you felt Lion Rampant units would be at a disadvantage against units from Pikeman's Lament. Could you elaborate on that a little? Also Do you think the same is true of Dragon Rampant units as some friends of mine want to try playing some "Dragon's Lament".
Thanks.
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Hi
I have changed most if the activation stats so the troop types in The Pikeman's Lament Will most offren activati easier than the troop types from Lion Rampant or Dragon Rampant. But the cost of the units are about the same so wouldent be fair...
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Good to know, thank you.
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Very keen to try these out so there's going to be some re-purposing of WECW units.
What would people suggest Scots lancer cavalry[1] should be?
Trotters doesn't seem right (because the shouldn't have a shooting) and they don't seem like Gallopers either.
[1] I have some of Bicorne's really nice figures for them.
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Thanks!!!
Regarding Scots Lancers I would field them as Gallpoers as their main Tactic, as I understand it, was to make Swift moves on the battlefield and charge the enemy using Lances and Pistols. Maybe you should make them Raw if you want to represent them as inferior or more fragile Compared to English Gallopers due to their lack of good quality horse.
Best regards Michael
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Hi
I have changed most if the activation stats so the troop types in The Pikeman's Lament Will most offren activati easier than the troop types from Lion Rampant or Dragon Rampant. But the cost of the units are about the same so wouldent be fair...
Thanks so to give them a fighting chance they would need either a lower points cost or and adjustment to their activation. Seems reasonable.
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Thanks so to give them a fighting chance they would need either a lower points cost or and adjustment to their activation. Seems reasonable.
Might be so, but I would still not mix troop types from the different rules, you should be able to translate most in to the troop types Included in the Pikeman's Lament, but if you still go ahead the easier way i suppouse would be to adjust activations.
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Might be so, but I would still not mix troop types from the different rules, you should be able to translate most in to the troop types Included in the Pikeman's Lament, but if you still go ahead the easier way i suppouse would be to adjust activations.
your solution is probably easier :)
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:)
Please feel free to ask if you have any questions to how to interpit them in to TPL troop types.
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Got my copy finally. Well done! I like that you have been retained the lion rampant rules and at the same time gave the game significant new flavor in the special rules and unit stats.
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Thank you! Appreciated !!!
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Love the rules, especially the officers and their honour and traits. I think that builds an excellent narrative which the scenarios you've included also help form.
I'm loooking at winding them back to the mid to late 1500's though. Earlier handguns etc will become commanded shot (looser, smaller and less formal and more mobile than formal ranks of matchlock muskets), zweihanders, halberdiers and enfants perdue and possibly swordsmen will become forlorn hope, (their job is to break the pike block, and this also represents loose bands of marauders). Gendarmes will elite gallopers - due to their armour as suggested in the rules, mounted arquebus and crossbow as dragoons - as the can skirmish and mount and dismount. Later pistoliers will be trotters and Demi lancers and cuirassier become gallopers.
It will be a while before I get to put figures down on the table to tast these ideas and they are all just outline thoughts at the moment.
Looking forward to giving them a go in any case. Congrats on an excellent set of rules!
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Thank you very much The Emir
You plans for the 16th century sounds Greate indeed!
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I haven't ordered mine yet: I am waiting for any number of online retailers to both it and the new Saga supplement in stock so I can order it at the same time (according to Firestorm Games, Pikeman's Lament is out of stock at Osprey :o).
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Out of stock? Avcording to the osprey site they have the book in stock...
https://ospreypublishing.com/the-pikeman-s-lament
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Got mine from Amazon new for less than half-price plus £2.80 postage.
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I'm always leery to purchase something like this thru Amazon at $8 + $4 shipping because it makes me wonder how the seller is making a profit?
To be honest, I'd rather purchase it at full price, if I want it that bad and this soon after it's publishing, I can support a local hobby store in buying it there or another hobby person on line.
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Out of stock? Avcording to the osprey site they have the book in stock...
https://ospreypublishing.com/the-pikeman-s-lament
"Out of stock with manufacturer" is what it says on the Firestorm Games website. No matter though: I bought both it and Aetius and Arthur from Caliver Books. :D