Lead Adventure Forum
Miniatures Adventure => Age of Myths, Gods and Empires => Topic started by: Vongoosewink on February 02, 2017, 02:46:32 PM
-
As I've been working on a Trojan army for the last couple of years, I've started to want some good scenery to go along with them. I had a look around the usual manufacturers, but I did not find any walls that seemed suitable to me - as I was hoping for historical-inspired but slightly 'Hollywood', in appearance, as they are for WarGods of Olympus, and can be a little more mythic than realistic. So, looks like I'm going to have to make this myself!
The idea is to make this big enough to go along one side of a 4x6 table, so my plan is to make the masters for some castable parts, and then get them cast somewhere. I'll worry about casting them later though, the first step is to get them sculpted. The plan is to make:
1 wall section
1 tower
1 gate section
Some decorative bits
...all in 28mm scale.
Hopefully, the finished result will look something like this:
(http://www.crocodilegames.com/content/general/tower.jpg)
And so with this as the goal, construction begins!
-
The plan is to make the basic structure from wood, and then sculpt the stonework battens at the base with putty. I'll use a thin skin of 'greenstuff' to cover and texture the upper (mud-brick) part of the structure.
My first attempt for the frame was using balsa wood, and once assembled the basic structure began to warp like crazy. Into the trash it went!
Second attempt was 1/4" plywood, and I cut it with a table jigsaw from Harbor Freight. I'm not the best at woodwork, but I managed to get it pretty straight with the help of a belt sander.
I'm adding a stone foundation hand-sculpted around the perimeter of the base, with Beesputty. I'll have to oven-cure the stonework, at around 230 for 30 minutes - I tested it and it does not seem to affect the wood, so fingers crossed it will work out.
The basic parts, I drew on the wood, to try to keep it all straight:
(http://www.crocodilegames.com/content/general/tower1.jpeg)
Assembled, and seen from above. The top is going to be removable, to make it easier to cast:
(http://www.crocodilegames.com/content/general/tower2.jpeg)
Here's a side view:
(http://www.crocodilegames.com/content/general/tower3.jpeg)
Another side view, with a WarGods Trojan on the battlements, for scale:
(http://www.crocodilegames.com/content/general/tower4.jpeg)
-
Looks good so far- the stone work especially.*thumbs up*
-
And here are the most recent photos.
The tower is starting to take shape... the stonework was the most time-consuming thing to sculpt, I did it at the end of the work-day over a couple weeks. A few places had some cracking trouble with the Beesputty - not the fault of the medium, I think I just made that section too thick with putty, so it did not cure/cool evenly. I patched it with some green putty, this is visible in the photos.
The top section is just skinned with a thin layer of green putty, and then textured with a "pebbley" surface with a toothbrush.
The wood beams that make the frame of the mud-brick top are just plasticard strips, I'll give them a bit of texture to make them look more natural and uneven, like hewn timbers.
The actual ruin at the historical site only has the bottom stone structure remaining, so anything above this is pure speculation on the part of archaeologists, but I think the depictions we have are pretty neat, so I'm following them closely (until the battlements). I've made my crenelations just a little more exaggerated and exotic.
Here's a ground-view from the front (from a greek's perspective!) :D
(http://www.crocodilegames.com/content/general/Tower10.jpg)
Here's a 3/4 view, from the rear. You can see where I intend for the wall piece to slot in, in this picture.
(http://www.crocodilegames.com/content/general/tower8.jpg)
The top section is only about 1/2 done in these photos, I expect to get it done in the next couple days, and then on to the wall.
(http://www.crocodilegames.com/content/general/tower9.jpg)
Bird's eye view of the top. The floor will be textured with the same mud-brick look as the upper walls, and there will be a trapdoor near the rear.
(http://www.crocodilegames.com/content/general/tower7.jpg)
Rome wasn't built in a day, and neither was Troy, but I think I'm making decent progress so far!
-
I thought to myself "who is this Vongoosewink character". Of course, it took just a couple of seconds to realize that it was you Chris! As you already know, very stunning work and many people are waiting to see how all of your efforts turn out.
Two thumbs up,
Herb
-
Very impressive work so fare.
You say the plan is to make molds and have then cast. Would you be interested in making more pieces and maybe selling then? From what I have seen so fare, I would be very interested my self.
I have a smaller skirmish Trojan force, and a castle like this would really inspire to expand on my collection.
-
I thought to myself "who is this Vongoosewink character". Of course, it took just a couple of seconds to realize that it was you Chris! As you already know, very stunning work and many people are waiting to see how all of your efforts turn out.
Two thumbs up,
Herb
Hey Herb! Glad you like it, I'm just using the scenery-construction skills I learned from you! :)
Chris
-
Very impressive work so fare.
You say the plan is to make molds and have then cast. Would you be interested in making more pieces and maybe selling then? From what I have seen so fare, I would be very interested my self.
I have a smaller skirmish Trojan force, and a castle like this would really inspire to expand on my collection.
Thanks Erik, I don't do resin production myself, so it would depend if I could find someone that could cast them for sale (there is a big difference in casting half a dozen for me, and putting them into retail production). But lets see if I can get this finished first, I still have a lot of work do on it before it is done! :)
-Chris
-
That is looking ever so good. Well done :)
-
Excellent.
-
that looks very impressive
-
Very nice! I'm interested to see how you do the gates. Off to a great start!
-
That's a great tower! :-* I can't wait to see the rest of the walls and some paint on it!
-
very good start indeed looking very good! One question though why did you vote for the material used? Wouldn't it be much cheaper and easier to use polystyrene sheets ?
-
very good start indeed looking very good! One question though why did you vote for the material used? Wouldn't it be much cheaper and easier to use polystyrene sheets ?
I used wood for the frame because the Beesputty stonework has to be cooked in an oven to harden. If I had used styrene, it would likely have melted or warped.
Unless you mean styrene for the stonework, but I wanted to match the sort of stone that is at the historical site, and so I needed to sculpt that to get it right. Here's a photo:
(http://static.wixstatic.com/media/3ae6ca_4c2d8df4a79e4ebcac4b0c0a5e09b9c0~mv2.png/v1/fill/w_558,h_371/3ae6ca_4c2d8df4a79e4ebcac4b0c0a5e09b9c0~mv2.png)
-
Well, this is all fantastic!
I have a set of Trojan walls from a historical company (Aintsy, maybe? I forget...), but these are WAY better!
Can't wait to see how they look when they're finished!
-Alex
-
Well, this is all fantastic!
I have a set of Trojan walls from a historical company (Aintsy, maybe? I forget...), but these are WAY better!
Can't wait to see how they look when they're finished!
-Alex
Thanks Alex! And to everyone else too for your encouraging comments!
Alex, yes I looked all over for something that I could just buy, but nothing was anywhere near what I had in mind. It is ok though, I like scenery projects and have not done one in a long while.
Now that the tower is close to being done, the wall section is up next.
The historical site at Troy has a very distinct feature to the walls - every 15 or 20 feet there is a slight change in the arrangements of the stones, almost like a step if it was viewed from the side. The Osprey book calls this a 'vertical offset'. Basically, instead of curving, the wall sharply juts out about 6-7" or so and then continues on in the direction of the wall. It is a little hard to describe, but it is clearly visible in these photos below (especially the bottom 2). It is an interesting feature, and unique to the ruin at Troy - specifically Troy VI. Since Troy VII is generally thought to be Homer's Troy, the vertical offsets would still be there, so obviously I have to incorporate them into my walls!
My plan is to make a single wall section that is about 15-20 feet long (four inches or so), and incorporates this vertical offset into the stone (so that one side is slightly wider than the opposite.) Also, my wall section will have a very slight angle at one edge, so that when multiples are cast and then placed side by side, it will have a gentle curve over the course of the wall's length, but only bending where each wall section meets (at the vertical offset). If it all goes to plan, the stonework should look very close to the way the actual ruin at Troy looks.
Here's nice color picture I found online, with lots of good photos of the Troy stonework.
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-BXbupYwRS-w/VW7mpn_jwQI/AAAAAAAAG-s/dS_kMfhImak/s1600/Troy%2B2%2BWalls.jpg)
-
That is great work so far Chris.It will look amazing once completed and on the tabletop with the Wargods of Olympus Trojans manning the walls.
Great to see the new sculpts shown on the Croc forum too.Getting closer to the end now ;).
-
This looks excellent...looking forward to seeing the rest
-
This is really a super scratch-project :-*, I too am looking forward to seeing the progress and completion.
-
Great to hear from you Chris, especially with such a lovely project :-)
I am working for some time now on a big kind of Trojan temple, but progress has been a bit slack in the last months. However seeing this might give the push needed ;-)
cheers Thomas
P.S. I am in for a few casts of these whenever there will be a chance to get them ;-)
-
Great to hear from you Chris, especially with such a lovely project :-)
I am working for some time now on a big kind of Trojan temple, but progress has been a bit slack in the last months. However seeing this might give the push needed ;-)
cheers Thomas
P.S. I am in for a few casts of these whenever there will be a chance to get them ;-)
Hi Thomas, thanks very much, I'm glad to hear you like the walls so far. If everything comes together to my satisfaction, I'd like to hand this over to a company to produce. It is not something that I would sell myself (Crocodile Games doesn't do large resin), but it may be possible to partner with a quality scenics manufacturer to get them made. We'll see... the first thing is to get the model built!
By the way Thomas, I've really enjoyed all the painted Olympus armies in your gallery, and would love to see your temple!
Back to the workbench...
I stayed up late last night working on this, and now the upper section and battlements of the tower are basically done.
I'm pretty happy with the finished texture on the upper section - the green putty is supposed to represent mud-brick, it looks a little funny in green but once it is cast and painted, it should look more natural. However, it did look a bit plain to me, so I think it needs a decorative motif at the top. Looking on the 'Black Ships Before Troy' book with the lovely illustrations by Alan Lee, his version has some nice elements, with a nice carved wave meander pattern near the top. In the mythology, the walls of Troy were supposedly built by Poseidon, so a wave pattern would be ideal!
Here's an image from the Alan Lee book:
(http://www.crocodilegames.com/content/general/troywall2.jpeg)
So I sculpted one of these patterns as a test, here are some pictures:
Close up of the meander pattern, with a couple painted Trojans manning the parapets for scale.
(http://www.crocodilegames.com/content/general/tower12.jpg)
Wider shot, you can see the completed door in this picture, and the wood base for the wall section in the background:
(http://www.crocodilegames.com/content/general/Tower11.jpg)
What do you guys think of the pattern? It was a bit fussy to sculpt, but after a couple inches I got the hang of it and it went pretty quickly. I'll have to do the border on the other 3 sides and the tower section will be done.
-
It looks very convincing and absolutely amazing. Keep it up! I am following this with great interest.
-
Really beautifully done.
-
How are you doing the swirly pattern?
I like the texture of the other green stuff as well
Great stuff :-* :-* :-*
-
How are you doing the swirly pattern?
I like the texture of the other green stuff as well
Great stuff :-* :-* :-*
Thanks guys!
The wave pattern is sculpted freehand with sculpting tools - there is no real trick to it, just working the putty around until you get it right. I made the straight border along the top first, to keep the wave sizing consistent, then let that dry. Then I rolled a little string of putty between, smashed it flat, and then just worked it into the loops, adding a little texture with a toothbrush. Beesputty would probably have been easier to work with on this section, but I was concerned it would have trouble sticking and come off after I had finished it, so I just used green.
-
GREAT JOB.... ;)
-
Very impressive modelmaking - would be great if these were commercially available to buy.
-
Looking on the 'Black Ships Before Troy' book with the lovely illustrations by Alan Lee, his version has some nice elements, with a nice carved wave meander pattern near the top. In the mythology, the walls of Troy were supposedly built by Poseidon, so a wave pattern would be ideal!
Here's an image from the Alan Lee book:
(http://www.crocodilegames.com/content/general/troywall2.jpeg)
Hi, which edition of the book is it?
Amazing work, by the way!
-
Impressive! I'd say your right on track! :-*
Christopher
-
Very well done.
I would say, you are spot on.
-
Hi, which edition of the book is it?
Amazing work, by the way!
Thanks, the image is from the UK edition of "Black Ships Before Troy" by Rosemary Sutcliff, illustrated by Alan Lee. I'm not sure if the later editions have his illustrations, this is the cover of the one I have:
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/d/de/Black_Ships_Before_Troy_cover.jpg)
Progress continues. The tower is now basically done other than an little cleanup and small details to be corrected. The wall section is underway - again, built on a wood base and detailed in the same manner as the tower. The for the battlement, I added the merlons after I built the wood section, just sculpted the with some putty (that is why they look white in the photos), it would have been better to just cut them into the wood, but my control over my cheap jigsaw is haphazard at best, and I did not want to lose a finger.
(http://www.crocodilegames.com/content/general/wall6.JPG)
I made the walkway along the wall just wide enough for 2 miniatures mounted on 20x20mm bases to stand.
(http://www.crocodilegames.com/content/general/wall7.JPG)
When finished the wall should slot nicely into the cutouts on the tower, and the 2nd story doors on the tower will line up with the wall walkway.
Getting closer...
-
Having just found this thread, all I can say is:
:o :o :o
Wonderful construction work and some lovely textures going on here that really bring it to life.
Seriously impressive work!
:-* :-*
Following with much interest now.
:D
-
OK, the wall section is now basically done.
I still need to do a gate, but that may be better to wait and simply convert a casting of a wall section rather than sculpting a whole new piece.
I'm also planning some additional decorative bits, so I may work on these while I figure out a solution for casting these.
Here are some pics of the completed wall:
(http://www.crocodilegames.com/content/general/wall8.JPG)
Different view:
(http://www.crocodilegames.com/content/general/wall9.JPG)
I have not added the wave meander border yet, what do you guys think - should I add it or not?
-
Do you not open up more use for different games/periods without the meander? I like it as is. :-*
-
This is a very well done project so far, chapeau! Looking forward to see the progress of the cast.
-
Your sculpting is superb and it is probably far too late now, but here is something that may interest you for future reference:
http://www.menta-modellbau.de/shop24/product_info.php/info/p845_Silikonform-Nr--10--Griechische-Steine.html
It's a company here in Germany that makes lightweight plaster stones and silicon moulds to cast your own. I own the set of moulds. This particular mould in the link is of Greek stones much like your picture and you build them up, one on top of another. The great thing about casting stones in plaster is that you can add pigments to the plaster and each time you cast the plaster it is slighter lighter or darker than the last one. When the stones are mix up, it gives you a very realistic effect of different coloured stones. You can also mix wood glue with fine sand and pigments to make a realistic mortar. Just like playing with Legos :D
If you don't want to fuss with moulds, they also sell all sorts of different mason stone sets up to, I think, 200 stones.
If you are going to make the roads of Troy, here is their ancient road set: http://www.menta-modellbau.de/shop24/product_info.php/info/p1391_Pflasterstrassen-Set--Krippenbau.html. For 20 euro you get ten 5x5cm road pieces making 50 cm of road. Although I will be using my own flagstone moulds for my Roman city streets, I find these tempting.
The site is in German, but the pictures in the links give you a good idea of what they're like. Since you said the sculpting was a long process, I thought you may be interested in this technique.
-
Wow. So good. Monolith Designs had some....still online although not sure if still available...yours take it to another level. You could try contacting Ian at Fenris Games...top bloke and might be interested in casting them up? I'd certainly be on them once released...might even make me paint my Bronze Age horde!
http://fenrisgames.com/ (http://fenrisgames.com/)
http://www.monolithdesigns.co.uk/trojan.htm (http://www.monolithdesigns.co.uk/trojan.htm)
-
Gorgeous! I'd love to have a set! I'd prefer a.little slope to the walls, but these.are.so nice, that.can easily be forgiven.😊
-
Gorgeous! I'd love to have a set! I'd prefer a.little slope to the walls, but these.are.so nice, that.can easily be forgiven.😊
The wall photos are a little deceptive, it has the same forward batter that the tower does (about a 75-degree slope on the lower section of the wall, that goes up about 10').
The rear (inner) side of the wall is a straight vertical though - I'm not sure if that is correct at the historical site, but it seemed to be from the reconstruction drawings in the Osprey 'Fortress' series book on Troy.
To be perfect, I probably should have made the batter go another 5 or 10 feet higher -- but I miscalculated early on in the construction and it's now too late to go back and change it. :?
-
How do you calculate the angles? I have the impression that, without using a graphical method, the calculation of angles on sloped planes (e.g. truncated pyramid faces) could involve some matrix algebra or at least simultaneous equations!
-
OK, the wall section is done!
I added the decorative meander along the top to match the tower, I think it will look nice, especially when seen repeated along the whole structure. In the mythology, the gods Poseidon and Apollo constructed the walls of Troy, so I can imagine Poseidon adding the wave motif himself, as a sort of signature! ;)
This picture from the side shows how the wall intersects with the tower, and also shows the bevel in the left edge to make the vertical offset that I talked about earlier in the thread. Hopefully I have it spaced correctly, it is hard to tell without actually having 2 castings to fit together - if it is a little off I'm confident I can fix the castings with a belt sander.
One of my Trojans included to show scale.
(http://www.crocodilegames.com/content/general/wall10-small.jpg)
And here are a few shots of the top with the trapdoor, and the side where the wall meets the door:
(http://www.crocodilegames.com/content/general/Tower15.jpg)
(http://www.crocodilegames.com/content/general/Tower13.jpg)
(http://www.crocodilegames.com/content/general/Tower14.jpg)
-
That wave motif is absolutely stunning :-*
-
That is an excellent wall and tower. If you are intending to have them cast commercially I would be interested.
-
Love it. This is some fantastic work.
-
Marvellous! :-*
-
Great work on your project lovely to see it coming together so well!
-
Aha!
http://benkrasnow.blogspot.ca/2008/09/determining-proper-angles-to-cut.html
-
That's a lovely, clean build! 8)
-
Now that the tower and wall section are done, I'm sort of stuck until I can get them cast. I really don't want to sculpt a new wall section to make the gate, it would be a LOT easier to just convert the existing wall to a gate section. But, rather than just waiting, I've done some quick little 'bits' to dress up the scene!
The part of the wall I'm making is basically the South Gate of Troy - one of the cool features there is a row of stelae that once stood right in front of the tower. The bases and stumps of these are all that remain now, but many of the artists reconstructions of the South Gate have done a nice job of imagining what they may have looked like, so I have taken these a little further on mine. I did 6 of them, each a little different, and each about man-size, with the couple in the middle a little taller, representing a family of sorts.
I kept the inscriptions really simple - I imagine that Trojan would have been a cuneiform similar to the script the Hittites used. Hittite Cuneiform (http://Hittite Cuneiform)
If anyone knows of any books or sites that discuss the stelae at length, please let me know. I was not able to find any mention of them online, and the Osprey Troy 'Fortress' book does not mention them all, though the artist did show them in his reconstructions.
Here's that picture again:
(http://www.crocodilegames.com/content/general/tower.jpg)
And here's a picture from the Age of Bronze comic book I think, showing the stelae and a priest making an offering there:
(http://age-of-bronze.com/images/troyphotos/Southgateart.jpg)
And here is a picture I found online of this spot in modern day, you can clearly see the bases and stumps still there. Too bad that is all that's left!
(http://dkiel.com/GreeceTurkey/Troy/P1060783.jpg)
So that's what I had to work with.
The Alan Lee book shows some stelae too, and I did one of his depictions as well (the one with the hands reaching up to the sun).
Here's my sculpts - these were made with Beesputty again. Each one took me less than an hour, they were fun to work on at the end of the day:
(http://www.crocodilegames.com/content/general/Tower-stelae2.jpg)
A side view, with one of my Trojans shown for scale.
(http://www.crocodilegames.com/content/general/Tower-stelae1.jpg)
Hope you guys like them.
-
And here's a picture with them lined up in front of the tower, with the bases added:
(http://www.crocodilegames.com/content/general/Tower16.jpg)
These were fun to do, the Beesputty is a much more forgiving material than the 'green stuff' I typically use on miniatures.
-
They look great! Nice addition.
Have you read the Age of Bronze comics? Excellent series, and full of inspiration.
-
I'm not sure if I can commit to buying a "Walls of Troy" set should you have them cast up (although, yeah, okay, probably...), but if you make those Stelae I'll buy a set. They are a fantastic addition to the project!
-
Wonderful project, great GS and Beesputty work all around!
-
very very nice indeed
-
Hi !
Superb work !
But what is "Beesputty" and where could we buy it !?
-
GREAT JOB.... :o :o
-
Love the Stelae.
A great little addition to what you have done so far.
-
:o Very impressive!
-
I've enjoyed reading about how you have sculpted these pieces.
Very well done.
Tony
-
I'd buy the stelae too- great for Pulp as well!
Roderick
-
I would buy those walls definitely....
Really wonderful work.
-
Wonderfully executed project!
Will there be more than this tower and wall section?
-
Hi !
Superb work !
But what is "Beesputty" and where could we buy it !?
Thanks!
Beesputty is a sculpting putty that can be cured at low temperatures in a home oven. It is easy to work with, but unfortunately the end result is still fairly soft, even when cured (a bit like the hardness of soap). It is good for making masters that you intend to cast though.
You can get it from the manufacturer here:
http://beesputty.com/ (http://beesputty.com/)
I've mostly used the 'Beesputty plastic' formula, but the Beesputty Firm is pretty good too.
Wonderfully executed project!
Will there be more than this tower and wall section?
I'm planning a gate too, and maybe some buildings for the interior. Was there something else you wanted to see?
If these turn out well, I may do more stuff later, but this immediate project is just for the basic city walls.
They look great! Nice addition.
Have you read the Age of Bronze comics? Excellent series, and full of inspiration.
Thanks! I have not read Age of Bronze yet, but I keep drooling over the comics when I go by the bookstore. I intend to get to them sooner or later! :)
I'm not sure if I can commit to buying a "Walls of Troy" set should you have them cast up (although, yeah, okay, probably...), but if you make those Stelae I'll buy a set. They are a fantastic addition to the project!
Thanks Alex! I had not really planned on casting the stelae, I was just going to paint these for my model - but if there is real interest in them I may try to find a quality resin manufacturer and hand them over to them to produce. I expect the stelae would be a lot easier to produce than the wall elements.
Thanks everyone!
-Chris
-
I'm planning a gate too, and maybe some buildings for the interior. Was there something else you wanted to see?
If these turn out well, I may do more stuff later, but this immediate project is just for the basic city walls.
I like the idea of a gate structure. I also like the idea of having some interior buildings. Another idea would be to have a corner tower where the walls can turn at a 90 degree angle.
And although this is a bit ambitious, I could see having a keep like structure that is perhaps twice the height of the towers, and perhaps 4 times their footprint.
-
I like the idea of a gate structure. I also like the idea of having some interior buildings. Another idea would be to have a corner tower where the walls can turn at a 90 degree angle.
And although this is a bit ambitious, I could see having a keep like structure that is perhaps twice the height of the towers, and perhaps 4 times their footprint.
Well, I'm not really building a castle, rather a round, walled city with some towers and gates. Mine won't be 100% historical (what version is?) but I do want to keep it close. :) There was a central citadel, but that would be more of a palace than a keep.
Here's a nice picture I found online of a reconstruction of the historical site. Mine won't be nearly so grandiose, but you can see what I'm basing it on. Just imagine the bottom 3 inches, and that's what I hope to get onto the tabletop:
http://www.crocodilegames.com/content/general/wall10.jpg
(Mod edit: Image may be copyrighted, so no repost, please!)
-
This is an inspiring project! Really well thought out and executed. Love the stelae too.
-
What a terrific project. :)
-
The placement of the outer towers is interesting, since they're all at one end - might there be an association between the siting of gates and the siting of towers?
-
Well, I'm not really building a castle, rather a round, walled city with some towers and gates. Mine won't be 100% historical (what version is?) but I do want to keep it close. :) There was a central citadel, but that would be more of a palace than a keep.
Here's a nice picture I found online of a reconstruction of the historical site. Mine won't be nearly so grandiose, but you can see what I'm basing it on. Just imagine the bottom 3 inches, and that's what I hope to get onto the tabletop: ...
That is quite good to see! So no corner towers, the walls curved around in places instead. Interesting that the inner wall had multiple gates going into the inner and palace area, and some of the towers had doors facing out.
-
I know you have already had many praises, but wow :o :o. That is really shaping out to be a litterally droolling project. I can see from the thread that you have given the idea of producing some for selling some positive thought. Again; I would be very interested.
Cheers
-
Now that the walls are done, I'm planning on adding some buildings to go inside. Again, I didn't see any that were commercially available, so I'm going to make a few simple buildings that can be easily cast, and then put together in different ways to make them look a little different. These are going to be humble houses for the common folk of Troy, not the fancy dwelling place of King Priam and his royal family - I'll save that for another day, when I'm less busy!
Here's the plan - 3 buildings, a small one roughly 10'x10', a medium one that is about 10'x20', and a larger one that is 2 stories, maybe 12'x24'. According to the Osprey book, Trojan buildings would have had stone bases, with mud-brick and timber tops. Their roofs would likely have been flat, with timber cross-supports, with woven reed over that, then a final layer of pressed clay. It all sounds sort of primitive, but it was 1200BC, and mud-brick houses actually look pretty neat when finished and seen all together.
Reference image from the Osprey book:
(https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/5e/51/0f/5e510f9e3af6a69936fd17fcf5a2a034.jpg)
Here's the first step, a frame cut from 1/4" plywood, and then glued together. The stonework was sculpted on the smaller one in Beesputty, then I made a press-mold with some heat-malleable plastic that my buddy Roebeast45 gave me, and used that to make the taller building's stonework base. It needed some correction and clean up, but it did make the second one go twice as fast.
Then I added the plasticard timbers with superglue, and finally the green-putty mud-brick upper section, with texture pressed in with a toothbrush.
The door and shutters are beesputty, I just sculpted them flat on a piece of brass, and then popped them off when dry. On the larger building I'll just reuse the door and shutters from the first so I don't have to sculpt them again.
(http://www.crocodilegames.com/content/general/TroyHouse.JPG)
(http://www.crocodilegames.com/content/general/TroyHouse2.jpg)
(http://www.crocodilegames.com/content/general/TroyHouse3.JPG)
Some finished pics of the medium house, with a WarGods Trojan for scale:
(http://www.crocodilegames.com/content/general/TroyHouse6.jpg)
(http://www.crocodilegames.com/content/general/TroyHouse5.jpg)
Round the back:
(http://www.crocodilegames.com/content/general/TroyHouse4.jpg)
And that's it - the first one is done, just the detailing on the last 2 left to go.
-
Excellent. 8)
-
Top class work and if you were Herb's 'apprentice' years ago then you have mastered the art of making miniature buildings 8) 8) 8)
Whilst the book illustrations show solid floors in the towers, they also show wooden beams protruding from the walls so would the floors be wood rather than stone?
On the casting question, would Warlord Games be a good option? I have just received 3 Indian Longhouses (designed by Herb G) and they are made from a lightweight resin that almost seems to be a 'plastic'.
Cheers,
Graham W
-
Gorgeous! You made it look so easy!
I absolutely need these!
-
Another great piece.
Love all you have done so far.
-
This really is beyond awesome. It puts my own efforts with Trojan buildings completely to shame.
If you end up casting these I would love to get my hands on some.
-
Great attention to detail.
Cool Wargods poster you got there :D
-
What an incredible work! :o :o :o
-
The second building (the largest of the 3 planned) is now done. This one is a 2-story, with 2 entrances. I made the door and shutters separate, saving myself a bit of sculpting time by casting them as separate pieces. This will also mean that (in theory) I can have some of the windows open if I choose to.
(http://www.crocodilegames.com/content/general/TroyHouse7.JPG)
Here is a picture of the 2 finished buildings together. The idea with these is to be able to stick them together in various ways, making new buildings for a large-ish town.
(http://www.crocodilegames.com/content/general/TroyHouse8.JPG)
Some progress on the casting front for the walls - I've handed them over to a company that can make resin molds, and they are attempting to make molds of them now - hopefully all goes well! I'll update with more info as soon as I get it! :)
-
Great work on these two buildings Chris.Looks like the Olympus book will have some great looking terrain in it too now.
-
Great work on these two buildings Chris.Looks like the Olympus book will have some great looking terrain in it too now.
Thanks! That's the plan! After spending months and months sculpting a whole army of Trojans, it just seemed like a good idea to make them a place to live! :)
-
Top work sir. Once painted and cast you'll have an impressive city.
-
Thanks! That's the plan! After spending months and months sculpting a whole army of Trojans, it just seemed like a good idea to make them a place to live! :)
Does this mean we will see Amazon,Athenian and Corinthian buildings soon too then ;).
-
Chris,... er Herr Vongoosewink, you really have done outstanding work on your Troy project. Can't wait to see how everything progresses onto the tabletop. Two "Thumbs Up".
-
Looking wonderful!
-
You have some great modelling skills, and the result is really wonderful ! :-*
-
At last, the final building is done - late last night I finished up the little 'shed'!
Now that all three of these are done, I played around with them and took a few pictures, showing how they can be arranged in different ways, to make unique Trojan houses. Some of the doors and window blinds are missing, as they are a separate piece and I only made one original. Seeing them arranged together, I am starting to like them - I think these might also be appropriate for Minoans and Mycenaeans too, even swords & sorcery settings like Conan.
Here are my experiments in Feng Shui:
(http://www.crocodilegames.com/content/general/TroyHouseFengShui.jpg)
-
Awesome. I'm looking forward seeing these painted up (once cast).
-
Awesome. I'm looking forward tossing these painted up (once cast).
That'd be a shame, methinks ;)
-
:D Well thats a slip up :D Corrected now
-
Perfect! :-* I can already imagine these painted up with some market scenery or gubbins spread around them.
-
Excellent!
-
Brilliant work!
-
Outstanding work on the buildings.
What a set up when are all cast and painted.
-
Wow. That's brilliant!
-
Really, really like these. They might just be the spur that gets me into a Trojan War project.
-
They look amazing and, with all the possible configurations, so versatile.
8) 8)
.... even swords & sorcery settings like Conan.
I think that you could be on to a winner there.
:D
-
Thanks to everyone for all of the great feedback so far, I really appreciate it, and all of your enthusiasm it gives me the courage to keep working on this project - usually late at night!
With the walls, tower, and town buildings done, I've been thinking a little more about decorating the city - what sort of statues and decorations could be there? Large greek sculpture actually came along later than 1200-1100 bc, but the Trojans have influences from the east, and would certainly have traded with cultures that built colossal statues in stone, like the Egyptians. Some of the illustrations in the Black Ships book show a greek sphinx statue, and I think this is ideal -- it still looks suitably archaic (not classical), and has a hint of the mysterious east about it. Perfect for Troy!
Here's a pic from the book where the sphinx is visible:
(http://www.crocodilegames.com/content/general/Troy-sphinx3.jpg)
Having had fun working with the Beesputty, I decided to attempt to sculpt one with some. Making this out of green or bronze epoxy putty (like I use for sculpting miniatures) would take a long time, but since the shape is actually pretty simple, I thought it might work. And here's the finished result! I think it turned out pretty well, and I may try some other Beesputty sculptures in the future.
To be clear - she is meant to be a stone statue, not a living sphinx, so I was able to breeze over some of the fussy details with her body and face and complete the sculpt quickly. :)
I will definitely be getting this piece cast to make multiples of, I'll need several for the project. I imagine these flanking the entrance to a temple, or perhaps a colonnade of them along some open public space. I think they will be very useful!
(http://www.crocodilegames.com/content/general/TroySphinx1-small.jpg)
-
Beautiful!
-
That a great little sculpt :-* :-* :-* :-* :-* :-*
-
Nice work on the Sphinx Chris.
Looking forward to seeing what you will be doing next.
-
That little Sphinx is great - I'm glad to hear that you'll be casting her up!
-
:o :-* Ooooh I waaant sphinxes...!
-
I'll need a few too please!
-
Great work carving your own sphinx...lovely work!
-
Love the sphinx.
It would be cool to see 8 or 10 lined up with a walk way.
The heroes coming down the middle.
The crowd going wild. :D
-
:o :o :oGREAT JOB MY LORD..... :o :o :o
-
Fantastic project, absolutely terrific.
-
Really nice. I would definitely buy all this stuff if it were made available. I have a whole box of Redoubt Trojan War stuff gathering dust but this would be an incentive to brush it off :D
-
Some of these items – the walls and the Sphinx – could be use in other periods in the Mediterranean area.
-
Impressive project :-*
You're making troy come alive!
-
Sphinx looks very good!
-
Lovely work as always. :D
-
It's been a while since I posted with a progress update, so here's a quick one!
The small parts (stele, sphinx) have now been molded by my friends at Model Earth Designs in the UK, and will be available for purchase from them soon. They did a great job with the molding and casting, and the test-shots they sent me look fantastic. Now that we have some castings, I'm looking forward to putting some paint on these!!!
Here's a pic so far:
(https://www.crocodilegames.com/content/factions/Troy-stele-casts.jpg)
These are not up for sale just yet, but you can check out ModelEarth's current range of excellent stuff here:
http://modelearth.azurewebsites.net/product-category/minoan/
I also have been experimenting with the Beesputty some more, and I've made up a pediment stone for the famous Lion Gate at Mycenae. Not quite Trojan, but it should be of interest to anyone reading this thread! Here's a couple pictures, next to a WarGods Mycenae hero, for scale:
(https://www.crocodilegames.com/content/factions/Lion_Gate1.jpeg)
(https://www.crocodilegames.com/content/factions/Lion_Gate2.jpeg)
Last, what's up with the walls and tower? Unfortunately, due to poor planning on my part during the construction, those parts are very difficult to mold and cast. Luckily, I know an expert moldmaker who can cast nearly anything, and he's going to give it a shot. I hope to have some more news on this in the next couple weeks - fingers crossed! :)
-
OOOOOOH, you made the Lion Gate stone!!!
-
I'm saving my pennies now. I need it all!
-
I discovered this thread just now, one hour before, I started from page 1 and absorbed it all, like the earth absorbs the rain in mid-summer!
Now, I'm standing in awe looking again at your sculpts... Sir, you are a master craftsman and you really live for your project and make your project alive! :o
-
Oh boy! That looks great.
-
A few days ago I was thinking of checking your thread to see if there were any more posts.
What a treat to see what you have been working on.
Love the Lion Gate.
-
The Greek sphinx, Trojan stelae and Lion gate are all available now on our shop:
http://modelearth.azurewebsites.net/product-category/minoan/
We have some new small scatter pieces on the work bench at the moment, which should be available in a few weeks.
Matt
-
Some cool stuff.
Love it.
-
And here's a picture with them lined up in front of the tower, with the bases added:
(http://www.crocodilegames.com/content/general/Tower16.jpg)
These were fun to do, the Beesputty is a much more forgiving material than the 'green stuff' I typically use on miniatures.
I believe I saw these at Historicon last week? Looked really good
-
At last, the first walls have been molded!
I knew these parts were going to be very difficult to mold due to their large size and impractical shape, so I took them to Jeff and Ben Rodman at Fortress Figures. I've known them for many years - in fact, Fortress cast the very first figure I ever sculpted, way back in 1990. Jeff's mold-making skills are second-to-none, and I knew he could get some good castings of these pieces.
Check out their website here, they make some great miniatures, and have lots of cool stuff in the works:
http://www.fortressfigures.com/ (http://www.fortressfigures.com/)
Here are some pics that they took of the molding process... I'm not a moldmaker, but I'll try to describe each step of the way as best as I can.
First step was to build a frame for the piece, that the silicone rubber will be poured into. In this case, they uses legos to make the frame (as they make a very solid and largely airtight construction:
(https://www.crocodilegames.com/content/factions/Molding_1.jpg)
Next they poured the silicone rubber in (it starts as a liquid) all around the outer walls. Once this sets, they poured in a 'plug' into the center section. This part of the process shows a big mistake I made in the construction, as I glued in wood supports on the interior of the model, and these take up space that will make the model very heavy. Something to keep in mind for next time!
(https://www.crocodilegames.com/content/factions/Molding_2.jpg)
Next, the original sculpture is carefully removed, and then a hole is cut into the plug to allow the resin to be poured in. In the second photo, you can see it as the grey stuff in the top right corner.
(https://www.crocodilegames.com/content/factions/Molding_3.jpg)
After the resin sets, the plug is removed, then the finished model. Jeff cleverly split one corner of the mold so that it could be peeled open, allowing the model to be pulled out without tearing the rubber. Now we have 1 very heavy casting of the tower!
(https://www.crocodilegames.com/content/factions/Molding_4.jpg)
The process continues with top battlements:
(https://www.crocodilegames.com/content/factions/Molding_5.jpg)
And then the wall section. Again, I should have made this hollow, if it ever goes into production for sale I'll have to hollow out the original to reduce the weight!
(https://www.crocodilegames.com/content/factions/Molding_6.jpg)
And finally, after a few hours of casting, the finished parts assembled. The Walls of Troy are starting to take shape!
(https://www.crocodilegames.com/content/factions/Molding7.jpg)
The final shots show the walls arranged with their distinctive 'vertical offset' every 15-20 feet or so. Also added the first castings of my Trojan Stelae in front of the tower (now available from Model Earth!)
A huge thanks to Jeff and Ben for all their help on this so far! They are also working on some molds for the town buildings, so with a little luck we'll have some of those finished in a few weeks too.
Next up: build a gate and get on with the painting!
-
:o
-
Wow! That looks awesome and its not even painted yet.
-
After I got the first of the resin casts, I set to work making a gate. I based this on the photos in the Ospry book, with the gate just to the left of the tower. Jeff made me a 1/2 cast of one wall section, so I could cut this to fit the doors and blend into the wall.
I mounted the tower parts on a piece of sturdy MDF board, and sanded the edges down so they blend into the table (a little trick I learned from my pal Herb Gundt). This will allow me to make the otherwise fragile gate section into a single piece, the whole part should be really sturdy when everything is dried and finished. I'll add some sand, turf, and bits of foliage on this trim and it will blend the structure into the table in a natural manner.
Then I sculpted in some stonework, and added a post-and-lintel style gateway suitable to the bronze age, with a triangular piece above the gate similar to the Lion Gate of Mycenae - though this one with a simple 'sun' engraving. I thought this appropriate to the Trojans, as their patron god is Apollo, and he was said to have made the walls alongside Poseidon. So, Apollo put his mark on the gate, and Poseidon added the wave meander pattern on the walls. :)
The doors are a plastic part from an old castle set. I added pins on either side so they can be opened and closed. If the walls ever get to a point where I can make them available for sale, I'll remake the whole gate with a set of doors of my own design, but since I'm in a hurry to finish these in time, the plastic ones will do.
I kept a spot in front of the tower for the stelea, but I did not glue them down at this point (so they'll be easier to paint - they'll be glued down after.)
Last, I cut some shutters out of plasticard and drilled a piece of brass rod onto the window-frame as a stick, to prop them up. The idea here is that these are defensive, they would stop arrows from being shot into the room, but could be quickly opened to drop rocks and shoot arrows at attackers, then pulled shut again. In peace-time, they'd stay propped open all the time to let in the breeze, as it gets hot in Anatolia (or so I hear).
Here are some pics...
(https://www.crocodilegames.com/content/factions/Gate1.jpg)
(https://www.crocodilegames.com/content/factions/Gate2.jpg)
(https://www.crocodilegames.com/content/factions/Gate3.jpg)
A defender's-eye-view of the tower from the wall:
(https://www.crocodilegames.com/content/factions/Gate4.jpg)
Here's a pic around the back side of the gate:
(https://www.crocodilegames.com/content/factions/Gate5.jpg)
-
Excellent! Excellent! Excellent! :-*
Keep up the good job!
-
Green with envy right now. Beautiful!
-
Extremely well done. I love trawling some of the forums sections for periods I don't game...because it lets me stumble onto 10+ page threads with brilliant projects I've never seen. I don't have to put up with the impatience of daily or weekly updates! Woohoo!
-
Congratulations ! So epic ! I smell the death of Patrocle
-
What beautiful walls and the moulding looks crisp
-
Beyond awesome. Please make these available for sale.
-
excellent work, it's good to see how the moulds are done as well, especially the plug.
-
Highly impressive. The detail is absolutely beautiful.
-
Wonderful walls. :-*
I, like many others hope at some point they are for sale.
-
That has come out exceptionally well.
Most impressive.
:-* :-*
Good to see the casting process with this behemoth of a subject too.
Most educational.
Thank you.
:)
-
Enjoyed seeing the casting process, and looks like they are coming out wonderfully!
-
Hi, any update? I'm looking forward to see those walls released
-
Superb. Thanks for the updates.
Tony
-
Wow, these are looking fantastic!
-
That's both ambitious and impressive!
-
An Impressive Project!
I love the wall and tower sculpture work and kudos for the excellent casting.
Proper inspiring job!
-
Happy Thanksgiving everyone!
It has been a while so here is another progress report, so I stole a few moments early today to get these photos posted - hope you like them!
Jeff at Fortress Figures has gotten all 3 of the Trojan House sculptures molded. I made the buildings with a little more of an eye on production, and so they were more straightforward for Jeff to make hollow. This required 2-part production molds for them, below are some photos of the process:
The Large House:
(https://www.crocodilegames.com/content/factions/TroyHouse9.jpeg)
The Medium and Small Houses:
(https://www.crocodilegames.com/content/factions/TroyHouse10.jpeg)
(https://www.crocodilegames.com/content/factions/TroyHouse11.jpeg)
(https://www.crocodilegames.com/content/factions/TroyHouse12.jpeg)
(https://www.crocodilegames.com/content/factions/TroyHouse13.jpeg)
Here are some pics of the first batch of castings:
(https://www.crocodilegames.com/content/factions/TroyHouse14.jpg)
(https://www.crocodilegames.com/content/factions/TroyHouse15.jpg)
So we now have some castings - just enough for a small town-section behind my wall. I'm hoping for a few more yet, to make it truly a metropolis, but this is a good start!
-
Magnificent.
-
Impressive even without any paint on them.
-
very good progress
-
I love trawling some of the forums sections for periods I don't game...because it lets me stumble onto 10+ page threads with brilliant projects I've never seen.
My thoughts exactly. But Elbows seems to display a bit more restraint than myself. This project looks so wonderful that I'm tempted to look at the Foundry Trojans and Mycenaeans.
-
I was hoping to see some buildings,
they look great.
So all I want for Christmas is Wall of Troy buildings. :)
But I can wait till after also. ;)
Love them. :-*
-
:o amazing!
-
What a superb project. I am attempting to order one of everything at the moment. Will those little beehive Kilns are ovens ever be available?
-
LAF is my favourite site for inspiration and ideas, and this thread is up there with the best. The figures you have on there are beautifully painted as well.
I wish someone did a Trojan range for 15mm of this quality. Appreciate Wargods is a fantasy setup, but the lack of evidence means that a degree of conjecture is necessary even for supposedly historical ranges.
I had an investment in my 15mm collection which meant that by the time really nice 25/28 models made their appearance in the 90s I'd already got in too deep to make the transition - besides which the smaller 15mm footprint does mean that it has its benefits when it comes to putting a layout together. I'm sure there are some clever folk out there that could scan these buildings in and create versions in other scales as well, so for the sake of those who would like these in other scales, and potential sales income, that might be worth exploring.
Despite the fact that I should really not be spending time on my biblical setup at the moment, this is tempting me to do just that, which says much for just how inspirational this thread is.
Suspect that buildings of this type reflect the architecture of wealthier clients and more prosperous times, with substantial timbers and dressed stonework. Others may have made do with mud brick and plaster, possibly decorated in a way that made them look to be higher quality than they were. If you are looking for further variety, that might be worth exploring.
Intrigued by those vertical 'steps' in the walling, though. Wonder what practical purpose they served, if any. It's not like they reflected a vertical joint, in the way that long sections of brickwork walls are constructed to enable the wall to handle a degree of movement, because from the photos it seems that the step is cut into individual blocks of stone.
-
...I wish someone did a Trojan range for 15mm of this quality...
Also my own Christmas wish! :-* :-* :-*
Please, keep up this magnificent work! Cheers!
-
Simply amazing!
-
Wonderful!
-
I received my order from ModelEarth today. Two sphinxes, the Lion Gate, and both sets of stelae. Everything looks superb, even better in real life. Wonderful stuff. I hope you add the little bee hive ovens or kilns to the available range.
-
I finally made the time to paint the first batch of Trojan Houses - I was only able to get enough castings to make 3 pieces, but it is a start.
I based the colors on the images in the Osprey book, it says they were stone and mud-brick, then likely coated with lime or plaster for durability. So, I gave them a very light look to the upper structure. The end result looked a little primitive though, and I see Trojans a quite civilized -- so I added some greek meander designs and patterns in blue to the upper sections of each lower story. The blue ties in nicely with the colors we used on our WarGods Trojans.
(https://www.crocodilegames.com/content/factions/TroyHouses1.jpg)
(https://www.crocodilegames.com/content/factions/TroyHouses2.jpg)
(https://www.crocodilegames.com/content/factions/TroyHouses3.jpg)
(https://www.crocodilegames.com/content/factions/TroyHouses4.jpg)
(https://www.crocodilegames.com/content/factions/TroyHouses5.jpg)
(https://www.crocodilegames.com/content/factions/TroyHouses6.jpg)
(https://www.crocodilegames.com/content/factions/TroyHouses7.jpg)
I then mounted them on MDF bases, and covered the edges with flock to blend the transition from scenic item to the ground. I added a bunch of little details to make them look 'lived-in', mostly my Crocodile Games' Icons & Artifacts -- the "Market Items Sprue" which comes with a wine jug, small bag, and basket of fruit.
https://www.crocodilegames.com/store/itemDetail.cfm?prodID=213&catID=23 (https://www.crocodilegames.com/store/itemDetail.cfm?prodID=213&catID=23)
And the 'Pile of Bags" piece, that has 3 larger bags grouped together.
https://www.crocodilegames.com/store/itemDetail.cfm?prodID=514&catID=23 (https://www.crocodilegames.com/store/itemDetail.cfm?prodID=514&catID=23)
There are also a couple large pithoi seen as well - these were provided by the excellent "Forge of Ice" company, and were perfect for my Trojan project. (Thanks Alex!!!)
https://fenrisgames.com/shop#!/FGFOI205-Pithoi-set/p/83846028/category=23272987 (https://fenrisgames.com/shop#!/FGFOI205-Pithoi-set/p/83846028/category=23272987)
It is fun to tell little stories with scenery, so here's one. After a long day of honest work, a couple of Trojans were up on the roof, peacefully enjoying the evening breeze and a jug of wine. Then the alarm was raised, 'Acheans have landed! Gather you spears and shields!' The men ran to defend the walls, leaving the wine and blanket on the roof, one cup spilled in their haste.
(https://www.crocodilegames.com/content/factions/RoofParty1.jpg)
(https://www.crocodilegames.com/content/factions/RoofParty2.jpg)
The cups were just bits of plastic tubing cut to size, and the blanket was a small piece of bed-linen that was coated in white glue, applied, and then painted once it had dried fully.
Hope you guys like these. We're about to release the Trojan warband at Crocodile Games, so I'll be taking some more photos soon with the completed walls and buildings, I'll share them here as well if there is interest.
-
Wow, these models look really great :o :o :o :
Thanks for showing here and yes I'll appreciate more pictures ;)
-
Marvellous, absolutely marvelous! :o
-
Awesome work and I'd love to see the pics when your done sir! :D
-
Lovely paint work on some beautiful buildings :-* :-* :-* :-* :-* :-*
The basing and the small stories in the terrain just finish them off great :-* :-* :-*
-
This project is some of the best i´ve seen. :-* :-* :-*
Keep it coming and dont stop. :)
-
Splendid :o :-*
Olympus gods & goddesses could be proud of your work !
-
I follow your project with great admiration! You're doing a fantastic job! Cheers!
-
Late to the party as usual, excellent thread and top modelling and painting :-*
-
Beautiful finish to those buildings.
The little details really finish them off nicely.
:-* :-*
Those buildings really are top drawer and could easily influence a chap to make an 'ancient era town'....for Conan or suchlike even.
::) ;)
-
Absolutely terrific; I'd happily shrink myself and move in there.
-
Lovely buildings.
:-* :-* :-*
-
Awesome work and I'd love to see the pics when your done sir! :D
+1 !!! :-*
-
These look fantastic! I'm looking forward to seeing the full set with the walls all put together!
And, thank you for the shout-out :)
-
Chris,
You already know that I love your work and I am looking forward to seeing it in person. Outstanding, as usual.
Herb