Lead Adventure Forum
Miniatures Adventure => Post-Apocalyptic Tales => Topic started by: Dan on March 05, 2009, 08:29:36 AM
-
Anyone use these?
I've just received the rules and am reading through them . I'm finding it a bit hard going though ::). Is it easy to use once you've got a grasp of the rules?
I like lots of things about it but am wondering if I should simplify some aspects.
-
They're easy enough once you get the idea. The rulebook is poor writing and the examples are more confusing than illuminating in some cases IIRC.
On the whole the game is OK. I think the "player vs player"-part with zombies as random encounters works much better than "player versus zombies".
-
There will be a new version in may 2009. Judging from the difference between the core rules Chain Reaction 2 and the just released Chain Reaction 3 i guess that ATZ2 will be great - improved rules, better layout etc.
-
All the THW rules I have are that confusing, but great games once you get going with them.
While the books can be a bewildering nightmare at times, Ed, the THW bloke, seems to have near infinite patience and explains everything to everyone personally on the Yahoo Group. :D
Sometimes I think of the books as a licence to get Ed to explain how the game is played, rather than a rules manual in themselves. lol
-
What Revford said. The best way to learn a THW game is to play it. The reaction system sort of explains itself through play. I would suggest setting up a small game and just having a go. You will probably wind up with a lot of questions after the first run through. Ask Ed on the Yahoo group and then have another go. It will become clear and you will have a great gaming experience in my opinion.
Cheers,
Ruarigh
-
Thanks for the advice , its been a busy week and I keep falling asleep while trying to read the rules which has not helped my understanding of them. ::)
I will have a look at the Yahoo group too . ;)
-
My favourite ever game ... THW stuff has a steep learning curve but then plays real fast and easy ... just join the Yahoo group and ask away :-)
-
The best thing is it covers the whole survivors' story, from Z-outbreak to the lawless shattered society, back to the re-start of civilization. I played it at best with a Game Master / Unpire as a "semi RPG".
-
You'll need to wake up, then, to re-read the rules. The system plays very well, and is unique in its approach to gaming. I play many of the THW sets - ATZ, 5150, RSBS, WHAA, etc., and they are infinitely more original, and playable, than many of the other sets on the market. The members of the Yahoo group are far superior in supporting the rules, and answering questions than most others I've encountered. Ed will answer all questions pertaining to the games, but the members do a great deal of the work in using their experiences on the tabletop to help out. And to flesh out new ideas within the rules themselves.
-
A long time gaming buddy described FNG, the 2HW Vietnam ruleset, as counter-intuitive. However he was very favourably impressed with how the game played and is eager for more now that we have a grip on the system.
I guess it really is something different from what most of us are used to. Once you get used to the core mechanic the whole thing becomes very simple to play. The online designer support and fan involvement is certainly enthusiastic.
Most importantly the 2 Hour Wargames core mechanic has recently undergone a significant refinement and you can check it out, if you wish, by downloading Chain Reaction 3.0 for free. (http://www.angelfire.com/az3/twohourwargames/CR3.0.htm)
Thomas
-
I've had too much caffeine....
;) :)
Nice to see someone that is so enthusiastic about a set of rules.
Generally i switch off as soon as i find a set of rules that needs someone to explain them - gaming for me is about having fun, and about choosing the right tactics, and a lot of rules (often ironically in the name of "increased accuracy") seem to get in the way of one or both of these goals.
Each to their own though.
-
they are great Akky, and if you combine it with some stats from CR-3 (the free game) it works for your entire collection ;)
-
....in that case....
:)
cheers matey, i'll check them out.
-
I've had too much caffeine....
;) :)
Nice to see someone that is so enthusiastic about a set of rules.
Generally i switch off as soon as i find a set of rules that needs someone to explain them - gaming for me is about having fun, and about choosing the right tactics, and a lot of rules (often ironically in the name of "increased accuracy") seem to get in the way of one or both of these goals.
Each to their own though.
Have to say I am with Akula, I want to like the rules but struggle with them each time I have played incl ATZ, CR2 and FNG
-
something that helps me is the resolution charts that someone posted on the yahoogroup,
makes it a bit easier to game instead of looking for what happens next, the books (early ones at least) don't have the best layout :)
CR 3 is supposed to be better but i seriously haven't had a chance to get a read of those yet..
-
the early ones are really difficult to get through and understand.
the latest ones are much better, and CR3.0 is a big step forward (and free!) quality- and clarity-wise.
even the QRSes are much better, allowing to play almost without the book...
-
I've had too much caffeine....
;) :)
Nice to see someone that is so enthusiastic about a set of rules.
Generally i switch off as soon as i find a set of rules that needs someone to explain them - gaming for me is about having fun, and about choosing the right tactics, and a lot of rules (often ironically in the name of "increased accuracy") seem to get in the way of one or both of these goals.
Each to their own though.
Have to say I am with Akula, I want to like the rules but struggle with them each time I have played incl ATZ, CR2 and FNG
I didn't say a friggin' thing about caffeine in my post, so who's misquoting me...?! :o
Lowtardog, didn't you have problems interpreting Josh's Quar rules at first...!!! Now that's another rule set I'm passionate about, as you already know. :D
You guys may also want a peek at the Dead Walk Again rules for zombies. A nice set, with some great contributing members.
And Mahon, I thought you'd back me up!!!! It's YOU - among a couple others - I was referring to concerning Yahoo group members helping out other THW gamers with rule questions!
Okay, as far as rules go in general, I don't think any rule set comes easy after the first or second reading. I, myself, just didn't find them all that ambiguous.
And now I've had too much caffeine...... just polished off another Monster energy drink.... you can quote me on that.... o_o
-
The first game or two will be a learning curve ... after that it is plain sailing. I played in a big participation game the other week at a show (convention) and all six players were basically playing the game without any sheet what so ever after the first move or two. Although the reaction tests (or one table in the new layout) looks as if it means it is going to be difficult to play one will find you don't need most of them in the course of a game and the ones you do are all intuitive once you start playing - pass 2 = GOOD pass 1 = 'IFFY' and Pass 0= BAD !
Get CR3 and have a play ... be warned though as light hearted as they seem they do give results that make sense (which is probably why there are a lot of people on the yahoo group who play a lot who were/are in the forces) and don't suffer stupid tactics kindly. Run out trying to charge someone armed with an SMG and you are not going to get there. We have been playing another set of rules a lot and when we went back to play CR3 (which has some subtle changes) the other day all of my little group took one very quick game to remember where projectile weapons are concerned cover is your friend ... where the other set meant one was fairly safe (unless the opponenent had set up overwatch) to run and and blast then run in CR3 was a different kettle of fish.
Also ATZ is the only zombie game I have played where I have actually been getting increasingly paranoid as the game goes on :-)
The yahoo group is your friend ... unless you have a limit on mail amounts - it generates a lot of chat - mainly from Mahon, myself and a few others maybe BUT a lot :-)
Rich
-
I think the problem I'm going to run into is that I may understand the rules eventually ::) but trying to organise a pickup game or for a Demo I'm going to be stuck running the game rather than playing it :-[
It would be great running a campaign but I'm not sure others will want to buy the book as it seems to be out of date already (I've only had mine for a week).
Instead I've been looking at stealing some ideas to use with our WW2 Necromunda variant.
-
Lowtardog, didn't you have problems interpreting Josh's Quar rules at first...!!! Now that's another rule set I'm passionate about, as you already know. :D
In a way as it was a new concept but one that can be picked up easily as it is quite easy to read through vs THW IMHO
You guys may also want a peek at the Dead Walk Again rules for zombies. A nice set, with some great contributing members.
Now this is my zombie rule set of choice nice and easy I have had up to 6 people playing it without need of help in their first game and myself as the zombies, lots of scope for developing it too
I do play the THW rules so its not that I have thrown the baby away with the bath water but they wouldnt be my own first choice
-
I've had too much caffeine....
;) :)
Nice to see someone that is so enthusiastic about a set of rules.
Generally i switch off as soon as i find a set of rules that needs someone to explain them - gaming for me is about having fun, and about choosing the right tactics, and a lot of rules (often ironically in the name of "increased accuracy") seem to get in the way of one or both of these goals.
Each to their own though.
Have to say I am with Akula, I want to like the rules but struggle with them each time I have played incl ATZ, CR2 and FNG
I didn't say a friggin' thing about caffeine in my post, so who's misquoting me...?! :o
Lowtardog, didn't you have problems interpreting Josh's Quar rules at first...!!! Now that's another rule set I'm passionate about, as you already know. :D
You guys may also want a peek at the Dead Walk Again rules for zombies. A nice set, with some great contributing members.
And Mahon, I thought you'd back me up!!!! It's YOU - among a couple others - I was referring to concerning Yahoo group members helping out other THW gamers with rule questions!
Okay, as far as rules go in general, I don't think any rule set comes easy after the first or second reading. I, myself, just didn't find them all that ambiguous.
And now I've had too much caffeine...... just polished off another Monster energy drink.... you can quote me on that.... o_o
Ok maybe it's the RED BOLD TEXT that makes you appear a little 'shouty' there mate.
shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh! :D
-
And Mahon, I thought you'd back me up!!!! It's YOU - among a couple others - I was referring to concerning Yahoo group members helping out other THW gamers with rule questions!
Well, I didn't do it because I am as biased as it gets. Why?
- THW games are my favorites. I like the cinematic feel of gameplay: fast, dramatic, with turns of action.
- THW games present excellent balance of enjoyable gameplay, speed, and realism to me.
- I compare most games to THW and the only ones which still keep me interested are Rattrap stuff, the Song of (...) series, and Blitzkrieg/ColdWar/FutureWar Commander.
Older THW games are poorly organized, difficult to understand...
this is balanced (IMHO) by great playability - but only when you manage to learn them. Many lose interest before they learn the games. Not surprising for me. Fortunately I managed to get past this step.
Fortunately the new games are much better - Warrior Heroes: Armies and Adventures, Colonial Adventures, Larger Than Life, Chain Reaction 3.0 are much clearer, better edited, and better worded. 5150 is pretty good too.
Why many people complain is because the books are so full of contents and so different from other games. Putting so much stuff in the books reduced the number of explanations and examples, making the games more difficult to read and learn.
The later releases are much better and I've even seen pictures, photos, and diagrams in some of them!
I think CR3.0 set the new standard for THW again. It's not as content-packed as before, but much clearer and easier to understand. For an experienced THW-gamer it doesn't really matter, but for a newcomer it's a big difference.
The rules also work much smoother and are more intuitive than before.
So my recommendation would be to use CR3.0 as the 'engine' for your modern gaming, and if you want to add zombies with all the props and background stuff - All Things Zombie has it. Including a cool campaign system.
For me ATZ is slowly showing its age. I love the game, and will continue to play it, but with much taken from CR3.0 which is a big improvement. That's no problem as it's a free game. ATZ is still well worth its price for all the information it includes and setting-specific rules. I believe that ATZ2 which is being prepared will include the new approach from CR3.0 and apply it to ATZ. So it will be both better written, better explained, not as crammed as ATZ1, and will include all the improved rules.
But until then I will keep using ATZ. You know, I mix and match the THW games I have, so it doesn't really matter to me....
And I think that's why I didn't want to step in any earlier... :neutral:
-
Never get rid of the maroon, my friend. What good is having the option for color if it's never used? And no shouting, either - it'd be in caps. And since I don't ever get angry at people in forums, you'll never see the caps.
-
I think the problem I'm going to run into is that I may understand the rules eventually ::) but trying to organise a pickup game or for a Demo I'm going to be stuck running the game rather than playing it :-[
It would be great running a campaign but I'm not sure others will want to buy the book as it seems to be out of date already (I've only had mine for a week).
Instead I've been looking at stealing some ideas to use with our WW2 Necromunda variant.
That's the problem with a lot of the newer sets. They do seem to subscribe to the belief that they need to be different, thus taking more time to learn. For some, you'd have to play it day-in, day-out to just become comfortable with the mechanics, mush less try to teach the game to someone who's never used them before.
-
I think the problem I'm going to run into is that I may understand the rules eventually ::) but trying to organise a pickup game or for a Demo I'm going to be stuck running the game rather than playing it :-[
It would be great running a campaign but I'm not sure others will want to buy the book as it seems to be out of date already (I've only had mine for a week).
Instead I've been looking at stealing some ideas to use with our WW2 Necromunda variant.
That's the problem with a lot of the newer sets. They do seem to subscribe to the belief that they need to be different, thus taking more time to learn. For some, you'd have to play it day-in, day-out to just become comfortable with the mechanics, mush less try to teach the game to someone who's never used them before.
Blue now eh? Much calmer! :D
-
yeah, the blue makes Wolf look a bit more chilled out....
;)
-
Blue it is, then...! It is rather soothing.....
-
yeah, the blue makes Wolf look a bit more chilled out....
;)
Now that you mention it..... ;)