Mon Idée Fixe de ARL et Panther

[Etranger]

I thought I'd saved a copy of that picture  of the 'French' sdkfz 251 somewhere. Alas can't find it currently. I'll be adding a model to my Indochina collection one day.



In lieu of that, a column of French Panthers c1948 or so (original on internet).

[Etranger]

Apro pos of not much... I did see the remnants of a C15TA at the Cu Chi Tunnels. I regret not havinf taken a photo. I believe the French passed a few on to the South Vietnamese. Most interesting vehicle I saw in any of the various war museums I visited over there.

The French had quite a few & the ARVN used them into the 1960's, ultimately replacing them with M113s. The CT15a also got used post war in Malaysia by the British. I've got a troop of them in the stash...


I can see why the M36 might get mistaken for a Panther, especially side-on!

A few handy photos here. https://www.tumblr.com/search/french%20indochina%20war

[Predatorpt]

I think this is the photo that Arlequín mentioned?

[Etranger]

Yes! just found the TMP thread that I saw it on. http://theminiaturespage.com/boards/msg.mv?id=309130

There are two sources for this story. Many years ago, I visited the French AFV historian Pierre Touzin at his home near Paris and we were discussing French tank exports in the 1950s. (Pierre's two volume history is the bible of French tank development). He was showing me photos of the French rebuilding of StuG III that went to Syria (these photos have still never been published). He then showed me a photo of a heavily modified SdKfz 251 sent to Indochina (it had most of the rear armor removed, and had openings cut in the hood for ventilation- I don't have a copy of the photo as it came from a private source). He also said that the French army sent a single Panther to Indochina due to concerns that the Chinese might intervene with IS-2 heavy tanks. The Panther was a failure due to poor performance in the tropical conditions, which led to the dispatch of M36 90mm GMC instead.

Some years later I was in Aberdeen talking with Bob Lessels who was a public affairs officer at APG. Bob was stationed with USAF public affairs in Vietnam where he was wounded in action while on a photo mission on a gunship. In any event, Bob said that he saw the Panther at some point during his tour of duty there. Bob was a hardcore AFV modeler who knew the difference between a Panther and a M36. (Bob died last year after prolonged medical problems) I have heard the same story from one other Vietnam vet who was also an AFV buff.

Just because there is no photo does not mean it did not happen. Ever seen photos of the two PzKpfw III delivered to Japan?  Steve Zaloga http://www.network54.com/Forum/47207/thread/1183943497/Pink+Panther+Tank+in+Vietnam

[carlos marighela]

The French had quite a few & the ARVN used them into the 1960's, ultimately replacing them with M113s. The CT15a also got used post war in Malaysia by the British. I've got a troop of them in the stash...

They popped up in Africa too, the Portuguese purchased quite a large amount of second-hand Canadian tat in the 1950s.

[Arlequín]

Good job on the photos guys!

Interesting stuff. Any idea how it applied to the occupation of Germany, post war? Presumably that was close enough to home?

No idea, I guess the same way they garrisoned the Rhineland and Saarland after WWI; by a series of legal fictions that made them territories of France. I know the Saar became a 'protectorate'. Certainly though the zone was occupied by standard metropolitan units, complete with conscripts.  

[Etranger]

I think this is the photo that Arlequín mentioned?

Looking on a larger screen, that's a Sdkfz 251D modified with an additional ventilation louvre on the nose, & presumably other changes out of sight, which fits with the Zaloga quote above.

[carlos marighela]

Good job on the photos guys!

No idea, I guess the same way they garrisoned the Rhineland and Saarland after WWI; by a series of legal fictions that made them territories of France. I know the Saar became a 'protectorate'. Certainly though the zone was occupied by standard metropolitan units, complete with conscripts.  

Or in the same way that French conscripts have always been employed within Europe, including several large dust-ups with their neighbours. I think they draw the line at active or war service and occupation duties in Germany were hardly the most dangerous of assignments.