Yusuf Ibn Tashfin's Black Guard Question?

[OB]

I'm painting a unit of Yusuf Ibn Tashfin's Black Guard and I have a question.

Were the Black Guard Black Sub Saharan Soldiers?

I have see them painted as Berbers and as Sub Saharan Africans. I don't know which is right.

Any help gratefully received.

[Atheling]

I did mine as Sub Saharan Africans OB. (Please see below).

As for evidence/sources, I just used the WAB El Cid supplement where James has them painted as Sub Saharan Africans. James is very interested in Medieval Spain so with a lack of sources in English, I just went with his work.

[OB]

Oh very nice indeed. Thank you.

I have James's book too, curtesy of the El Cid thread.

I will  give the Sub Saharan option a go and see if it comes off in 15mm.

[Atheling]

Oh very nice indeed. Thank you.

I have James's book too, curtesy of the El Cid thread.

I will  give the Sub Saharan option a go and see if it comes off in 15mm.

James is very well acknowledged as putting together two of the most balanced, historical WAB books. A bit OT but Midgard, though not packed with history, is worth a read too should you have a mind to take a peek.

[OB]

I have been following developments.

[Hobgoblin]

I had a bit of a poke around on this, and it seems that the predominant (ethnic) blackness of the troops is better attested than the blackness of their robes (as in most popular depictions - but 'print the legend'!).

Hugh Kennedy has them formed from 5,000 black slaves and 500 white slaves. Some online sources suggest that they were mainly Bambara men.

[Atheling]

I had a bit of a poke around on this, and it seems that the predominant (ethnic) blackness of the troops is better attested than the blackness of their robes (as in most popular depictions - but 'print the legend'!).

Hugh Kennedy has them formed from 5,000 black slaves and 500 white slaves. Some online sources suggest that they were mainly Bambara men.

Bambara men; as ethnically distinct from the North African mainly though not exclusively "Berber" dominated Almorivid/Almohads.

[OB]

All very informative lads, thank you. I painted the flesh tones black and it looks fine in 15mm. Now it seems I have the opportunity to paint a second unit.  Maybe of mixed origin.

[Hobgoblin]

Bambara men; as ethnically distinct from the North African mainly though not exclusively "Berber" dominated Almorivid/Almohads.

Yes, exactly: black West Africans rather than Berbers.

There seems to be a bit of consensus that Ibn Tashfin set the precedent for North African rulers having 'black guards' of Sub-Saharan soldiers.

I wonder if the black-robed Black Guard is largely the creation of the Charlton Heston El Cid. Earlier (though obviously still much later) depictions of Almohad Black Guards show them very differently (though the chains bit is apparently a mistranslation based on their status as slave-soldiers):

[OB]

I thought you might like to see the finished unit. The figures are from Donnington New Era.  You have to drill the weapon hand, sometimes it works. Nice figures all the same.

[Atheling]

I thought you might like to see the finished unit. The figures are from Donnington New Era.  You have to drill the weapon hand, sometimes it works. Nice figures all the same.

Very nice OB. 

[OB]

Thanks. I should have a few more units to show next week.

[Atheling]

Thanks. I should have a few more units to show next week.

I look forward to seeing them