How early can Billhooks go?

[nickelkers]

Hi all,

I'm new to wargaming the medieval period at anything larger than a skirmish size and Never Mind the Billhooks seems to be the standout ruleset from what I have seen. I know that the deluxe edition includes special rules for the Hundred Years War but does anyone with more experience of it reckon it would work well enough for an earlier timeframe such as the Crusades?

I'm interested in the Hundred Years War, War of the Roses and the Crusades, and it is just finding suitable rules for the last which is vexing me. I have looked at Saga, Lion Rampant and Hail Caesar too but the Billhooks does look best to me. Please let me know if you have any other suggestions!

Nick

[Atheling]

I have tentative plans for Never Mind the Byzantines! 

So, from 525CE through to the end of the Komnenian Dynasty 1185CE.

Lots of experimentation to come!

[AdmiralAndy]

Billhooks is a little bit larger game than Saga or Rampant, so depending on size you might want to look at Hail Ceaser or Swordpoint.

Depends on the rules mechanics your looking for as regards unit activation and morale, as they tend to be element games rather than figure removal.

[Golgotha]

According to the Deluxe rules:

"Billhooks Deluxe gives you a ‘Core’ Wars of the Roses ruleset and then
expands that to cover seven new Theatres and Conflicts from across Western
European Christendom c.1350-1525. You will find troop stats and special
rules for Irish Gallowglass, Hussite War Wagons, and Landsknecht Pikemen
along with all the other troop types to be found on battlefields of the period,
from Hundred Years’ War France to Renaissance Italy."

Though I see no real reason why you could not use the rules for earlier Medieval than suggested by the rules - but you would need to create own stats and many troops would have significantly less armour. Clue is in the title of the rules as Billhooks are a feature of later Medieval armies.

https://medievallondon.ace.fordham.edu/exhibits/show/medieval-london-objects2/bill

https://www.medieval-life-and-times.info/medieval-weapons/billhook.htm

[Byrthnoth]

I believe on the billhooks Facebook group it was mentioned that a crusades version is in the works. No idea when it’s coming out or any other details though.

[nickelkers]

Thanks all for the suggestions. Im going to just dive in with it and see if I feel some adjustments are necessary or jump out at me and slowly tweak it if necessary.

[OB]

I've got a Billhooks Crusades rule set in its second draft.  I think the rules suit the period well with suitable adjustments.

There is a game report on my blog if it is of interest.

https://youdonotknowthenorth.blogspot.com/2020/10/an-experimental-game-crusading-warefare.html


For other Crusades rules suggestions I like Shattered Lances and Ager Sanguinis.

[Alex Pyrrhus]

Will this rule set be an expansion for Billhooks or a standalone book?

[Melnibonean]

This is interesting and something I didn't consider. I have a 13thC Germanic army which is really my Imaginations type army for some games that that a friend and I played several years ago. We used Dragon Rampant and Hail Caesar. I didn't think of using the Billhooks system for these troops. I think this is a great question.

[SJWi]

By the way if you re-look at Lion Rampant there is a Crusades add-on available from Wargames Vault  not Osprey. Currently on sale for $12. I think it was designed around the original version so not too sure if it totally works with LR2.

[OB]

Will this rule set be an expansion for Billhooks or a standalone book?

Andy Callan has had a look at it and likes it so far.  I'll be sending him the final draft for his comments. 

Dan at Wargames Illustrated has expressed interest too. My best guess is that my Crusades variant will appear as an article in Wargames Illustrated subject to Dan's approval.

I intend to have a final version done this coming January with suggested lists and what not.

There will be a couple more Crusades AAR on my blog.   I'll post links here. 

[AdmiralAndy]

Look forward to the future Wargames Release for the Crusader addon.

BTW I came across the YoudonotknowtheNorth blog a while ago, did you ever look atn developing your Crimea adaption with French, Ottomans and Sardinians unit profiles?

Thanks.

[OB]

Thanks Andy.

I always intended to but so far I've not got around to it.