AE WWII vs Secrets of the Third Reich....need a little help

[Druthu]

I do not have access to a LGS to thumb thru the two books and get a look at what I think I would like better. I am looking for a skirmish game (semi low model count) for a Weird World War II setting.

Both games look fantastic, and both have great reviews, but I am having a tough time of where to put my cash for a first one to pick up. I am going to get a freind or two interested to play also.

I am looking for a solid ruleset to play. Right now I am on both sites trying to see if I like a particular model more than another.

Can anyone help with some Pro's and Con's....

Thanks,
D.

[supervike]

Can't help with all of it...but maybe a little.

I have the AE WW2 rulebooks, and a bunch of the miniatures.  I also have a bunch of SOTR miniatures, do NOT have the rules but do have the Incursion board game.


I like both of the miniatures, but AE WWII are a bit slighter in size and some of the fiddly parts frustrated me when assembling.  Most of the new releases have been pretty good, however.

I'm not much of a gamer, so I'm not sure why I have the rules.  But, it's got great background info and fluff.  The rules seem straightforward, cover seems to be a very important element.  But, hopefully a hardcore gamer will be able to enlighten us more.  I also like that the new Bounty rules (Sci fi from Darkson) will involve the same mechanics...making the two systems very easy to switch back and forth.

As far as the entire line ups go, SOTR seem to have a much bigger diversity in troop types and styles of play.

Incursion, the board game, however helps SOTR over the edge IMHO.  It's a quick learn, fast and brutal game style.  Superb figures, and top notch quality....Plus you can use the figs for the Skirmish SOTR rules, as they have the stats (i believe that statement is true)


I think you can't go wrong either way.  I've been dabbling in both and have not been disappointed.

[Doc Twilight]

Honestly, having seen both, I prefer SOTR. The rules are a little "meatier", and the figs are far more diverse. In my experience, the AE rules are not bad, but the figs, while they look nice in picture form, just aren't that impressive in the raw metal. They don't go together well, and have very shallow detail, which makes them difficult to paint. That said, some of the newer stuff looks nice, but I'm not sure I'd trust it after my experience painting two different AE WW2 forces, one of which was supposedly "improved."

-Doc

[Weird WWII]

Secrets is a more completed game with rules for just about everything where as AE is lacking, ie vehicles.  I think Secrets lends itself to a better investment as if you want to expand to larger games then you can more easily then with AE.

Brian

[Doc Twilight]

Secrets is a more completed game with rules for just about everything where as AE is lacking, ie vehicles.  I think Secrets lends itself to a better investment as if you want to expand to larger games then you can more easily then with AE.

Brian

Brian makes an excellent point. Forgot about the vehicles bit. Another reason to go Secrets.

-Doc

[myincubliss]

?? There's rules for vehicles in AEWWII... (a selection in the main rulebook, and I'm sure there's been more inOver The Wire, their free download...)

[richarDISNEY]

I have and played both extensively...

I prefer the game mechanic of AE:WW2 over SotTR.  Especially for skirmish games.  It does bog down if you have lots of troops.  But it sounds like you would prefer smaller games.

Yes. There are vehicles.  Not covered extensively in the rule books, but on the webpage and in the forums.  Including Mechs! My club was really happy about adding Mechs into the game.  But adding LOTS of vehicles also bogs the game down.  A few is fine, but more than 4 to a side really starts to slows things down.  This is a skirmish game after all...

And when you add the Occult rule book to AE:WW2, then the game is really hot!

As for troops figs, I also have both and the Darkson ones are kind of a pain in the rear to put together.  And they seem thin.  My club plays AE:WW2 but with the West Wind troops.  EXCEPT for the mechas.  They seem too 'dopey' for us, so we just modified some AT43 mechs, and BANG! off we went. BUT...  The new DUST tactics game should have some great looking mechs too... www.boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/36367/dust-tactics or www.dustgame.com/

Again, for small skirmishes, AE:WW2 is the way to go.  For bigger battles, go check out Nuts! with the free Horror  supplement (fast, easy and fun -- lots of Hollywood style of fights... Not overly complex...)or take a look at Battlefront WWW2 for a more complex game ( ask Kampfgruppe Cottrell for his supplement. Its really quite a good addition to the rules for the horror flair...).

I am trying to be polite, but...  There was nothing we liked about SotTR except the figs.  Lets just say, the rules were not for my club...    We tried to like it, we really did, but overall we kept going to AE:ww2...  I know that there are a ton of folks here who really liked SotTR, but it was not for us.
But that's my 2 pence...

[myincubliss]

On the miniatures front, I believe Darkson Designs are re-releasing some of their older miniatures as single piece sculpts, which will hopefully mean spending less time glueing yourself to the miniature as you attempt to hold both arms and a seperate weapon in place while the glue dries...

[Commander Vyper]

SoTR for me, sorry never really like AE's miniatures and the larger scale battles including decent vehicle and mech rules does it for me.

The Commander

[Druthu]

"I am trying to be polite, but...  There was nothing we liked about SotTR except the figs.  Lets just say, the rules were not for my club...    We tried to like it, we really did, but overall we kept going to AE:ww2...  I know that there are a ton of folks here who really liked SotTR, but it was not for us.
But that's my 2 pence..."

What were the things that you didn't like for SoTR?

I do like the idea of having a Tank....the Mechas...well when you are used to GW Dreads you look at the Mechas with your head to the side. Some sculpts are better than others.

What is the average model count for an average game (for each system)?

Thank you all for posting.....
I am still looking thru the galleries for models that I would like to paint, so I am still on the fence.

[Weird WWII]

Thanks for the plug Rich

An alternative is what I play and it is just mods of a straight WWII system that I think is he best I've ever played.  The system is Battleground WWII and it is very easily converted to anything you may want to game with.  The system is very thorough and has covered all aspects of the WWII conflict from early to late and both theaters.  So you can play heavy historical with just a super hero or all out weird with the big tentacle guy driving everyone mad at his return.  I have both AE and STR but I still love the realism of the BGWWII system with the injection of weird at whatever level or background I choose.  I offer lots of free rules for use with BGWWII so take a gander and at the least, Battleground WWII will offer you one, if no the best, WWII rules system ever.  Below are some examples of our games and what can be done with a little imagination.

Whatever you choose just keep it weird,
Brian

The forum and some battle reports,

http://whattheminiatures.com/forum/

Operation Skull Crusher
http://whattheminiatures.com/forum/index.php?topic=360.0

The Elder Gods Awake
http://whattheminiatures.com/forum/index.php?topic=103.0

A Blood Red Night
http://whattheminiatures.com/forum/index.php?topic=213.0

[Snate56]

How does the scale of AE: WWII stand up to other figures?
I'm after one figure, the U.S. female mechanic, and she doesn't appear to be available separately and I'm kinda pissed I have to spend $30 for one figure.
I'm just wondering if she's worth it.


SteveN

[white knight]

They have very slender proportions, which is the reason I don't have more of them. They don't fit that well.

[Nocturnus]

 I own both games. In terms of what it sounds like you're looking for, AE WW2 is probably a better purchase. Don't get me wrong, SOTR is also a great game. As most have mentioned, the minis for SOTR are a little more meaty and easier to assemble. Hope that helps.

[Scorpio]

When I was looking at getting into Weird War II, I checked out both games, and read as much as I could track down online.

What won me over to AE-WWII:

1.) Low model count. You mentioned this as a deciding factor. In AE-WWII, you can have as few as three models in a Command detachment. And the most you're going to see is twenty-ish in a Soviet Infantry detachment. (Lots of conscripts. Not a step back, comrades!) The Occult book also has the rules for a Tank detachment, and while you won't have many vehicles, I assure you they will make quite an impact.

2.) Innovative rules. AE-WWII has no point system. Models are selected for a detachment by picking your units (between 1 and 3 figs, mostly) to fill out certain slots. It takes a couple tries to get the swing of it, but it's very cool seeing how balanced you can have the aforementioned 3-man Command detachment and the mid-range Mounted Infantry detachment and the Experimental Tesla Weaponry detachment and the scary Hell-Hound Occult detachment. Also, managing your troops' morale and reducing the enemy's morale is a key to victory, as is using your actions efficiently to complete your objectives and thwart theirs. It's not just a line-'em-up and shoot them game.

3.) The models. The first ones had a lot of spare bits, great for variety in your troops. They've been doing more single-piece models (still looking sharp, but easier for, uh, less-gifted modelers like myself) while still putting out the multipart figs. The figs also have relatively realistically-sized weapons, making them look very sharp next to historical figs from other companies (I use a lot of Artizan and Bolt Action figs, they fit together just fine when based and painted.)

4.) Crazy historical research. The guys at Darkson have put an *obtuse* amount of work into researching the darkest corners of the historical side of the war. Seriously, every time I read some of their history fluff, I learn about something I had no idea about, and am continually surprised when I find out something I figure they made up actually happened. (The flight of Rudolph Hess, Unit 731, the Tumbleweed, etc.) They've just tilted it towards the weird.

5.) Weird vs. historical. One of the things Darkson set out to do with the game is have it play as a straight historical wargame as well. And the regular joes have a shot against the special troops as well. Last game I played, I took some decidedly non-weird German Wehrmacht troops against American Occult troops and came out on top.

6.) But oh, there is the weird. They've worked a lot in, and there's a lot more to come. Nazi werewolves. Vampires. Tesla superscience. Psychic Russians. Pulp heroes slinging a salvaged machine gun and leading from the front. Cybernetically-altered gorillas. Lovecraftian nightmares. Dangerous OSS agents. British Druids. The Children of Rasputin. And in the recent issues of Over the Wire, even zombies and pulp superheroes.

So, yes. AE-WWII has a lot going for it. I can try to answer any questions you might have, just drop me a PM.