Question on brush on Testors dullcote

[Remington]

I've been having some problems with my Daler Rowney matt varnish lately as it seems to rub off even when I just touch the figures to move them on the gaming table. I love the look it created but my sailors got plenty of shiny arms now.

Yesterday I ordered a Testors brush on pot from antenocity and I was wondering if there is anything I should pay attention to when using it ( besides not breathing in the fumes). Does it need to be thinned? Can I use humbrol gloss as my first coat etc.

I am very thankful for any tip and suggestion.
Dimitri

[Operator5]

I have only just starting using it, so my results may be an aberration.

I have not thinned mine at all and brush on straight from the far. I usually soak the brush well and then spread it thin on the figure. It dries quickly so you will be able to see any missed spots without having to wait for it to dry. Not sure about Humbrol, but I have had some high gloss figures dull to matte easily.

[Orctrader]

Can I use humbrol gloss as my first coat etc.

Not so much "can" as MUST.  On NO ACCOUNT paint Testors straight onto acrylic painted figures as it will dissolve the paint.  You need humbrol gloss or another good quality polyurethane varnish to protect it.  I would advise two coats - 24 hours apart  - as the Testors will find any tiny area that you've missed and dissolve the acrylic paint in that area.

On the rare occasion I have used it I didn't need to thin.  Just stir lots and lots.  And the smell is quite overpowering.

With the DR issue - I haven't seen this and I always use it.  Are you applying two or three coats over a strong gloss varnish?

How I use it.  LINK

[Antenociti]

Testors is a Lacquer, the carrier fluid is nitrocellulose. This is important as nitrocellulose is quite aggressive and as OT says you need to be wary of brushing it directly onto acryllics. It can lift some metallics in particular and destroys decals. It *can* lift some acryllics but this appears to be medium-dependent, so you may or may not experience this effect - itpays to be safe anyway.

Ideally you should always use a good matt or gloss varnish first (note: Varnish, not another lacquer) and then apply Testors over the top of that. Make sure that the varnish has had plenty of time to fully cure.

With testors "less is more" and you only need very light thin coats.

There is no need to thin it uless you want to airbrush it, in which case you MUST use a cellulose thinners (get that form somewhere like Halfrods/Car/Auto-parts stores), dont try white spirits etc, it wont work and will go horribly wrong!

Orctrade knows hiw DR though and has had very good success with it, so have a chat with him on using the DR as it shouldnt really be coming off like that. 

[Remington]

Ok, so I got to be careful with Testors. From what I understand, Humbrol gloss should be a sufficient first coat.

Have you ever used Testors, Orctrader? Would be interested to know what you thought.

As for DR It seems to be worse for miniatures I used the Humbroll dullcote in a glass on. But no, I've always used two thin coats tops. You think that might be it?

Edit: I have been a fan of your site so I know your method so I am wondering what it could be I am doing wrong. But maybe you are less of a gamer and more of a painter. In that case you would be leaving your miniatures alone compared to my gaming use.

[Orctrader]

Have you ever used Testors, Orctrader? Would be interested to know what you thought.

I didn't like it.  It ruined a paint job.  Though I can't really blame the product as it was my ignorance at the time.  Painted over Humbrol Gloss but there must have been a "missed" area.  The primary reason I don't use it is the smell.  It makes me feel ill. Whereas the varnishes I do use are all "low odour."  But following the advice here, and used in a well-ventilated area, you should be fine.  With the usual caveat of "always test new varnish on a figure you don't care about..."

As for DR It seems to be worse for miniatures I used the Humbroll dullcote in a glass on.

I've never used Humbrol Dullcote but KNOW it to be a completely different product to Humbrol Gloss Varnish in a tin/tinlet.  I only ever Humbrol Gloss Varnish or Daler-Rowney Gloss Varnish, the sister product of the matt.

Edit: I have been a fan of your site...

Thanks.  Kind of you to say so.   

...I know your method so I am wondering what it could be I am doing wrong. But maybe you are less of a gamer and more of a painter. In that case you would be leaving your miniatures alone compared to my gaming use.

More a case of I'm not a gamer; only a painter.  And I always pick up figures by the bases.  However, some serious gamers own my figures and have never reported any issues.
Not sure you are doing anything "wrong."  Could it just be a "dodgy" batch?  Are you using straight from the bottle or the method I use.  I know Martin Buck uses "straight" and I read that Kevin Dallimore is now using DR - but not sure which "method."

One other point.  You mention in the original post "it seems to rub off."  Is it actually flaking away or does it "look shiny."  If the surface looks unbroken but appears shiny this could simply be a reaction to sebum on your finger tips.  Just a thought.   

[Remington]

First off... It should read: I AM a fan of your site. I am replying over iPhone and I couldn't see what I was writing anymore because of the small text field.

I use it straight from the bottle but I will give them all one or two more coats using yours. And no, it's not flacking off so it must also be the substances on my fingers. The surface remains unbroken. Yet my mates would kill me should I turn up wearing gloves. and then laugh at me.

I just found a post somewhere else saying DR takes a week to fully cure. Maybe I was also to quick to use them.

Also... I meant humbrol glosscote in a glass pot. Again stupid phone.

[psyberwyche]

If it's any help, I use Cryla Soluble Matt Varnish (available from art shops). It does a pretty good job of dulling down even gloss varnish. Paint on straight from the bottle, with no thinning required. Smell isn't as bad as Testors.

Only warning though – make sure you shake thoroughly. If it's unmixed, it will gloss your models like no tomorrow, and even re-application won't help you!

[Remington]

Cryla and Daler Rowney are one and the same. And yeah, I also love the results. Now I need to find a way to ensure higher durability.

[Orctrader]

...I need to find a way to ensure higher durability.

Mmm.  Been thinking some more about this and all I can add is, assuming it is simply not a "bad" batch I'll reiterate the basics.

Whether "prepared" as I do or straight out of the bottle I always apply it at room temperature, over glossed figures that have 24 hours or more to dry.  Each coat of DR is applied very thinly and is left at least over night and usually 24 hours or more before the next coat.

All of this is extremely important but there is one other factor that is just as vital.  And I mean vital.  DR does not mix well.  It actively resists mixing.  I just wonder if the "shine" you desribe is a result of more carrier than matting agent?

DR (matt, this is.  The gloss requires no special treatment beyond a quick shake)  I mix vigorously with a "stirrer" and get right into the bottom recesses of the (strangely designed) bottle.  I do this for, er, sometime.  Then - after I replace the screw cap I begin shaking the bottle.  Side to side, up and down.  I shake it for ages.  Some great advice I had when first experimenting with DR was to do just this.  And was told..."when you've done all of that and you think it's properly mixed, shake the bottle for another couple of minutes."   

[Remington]

Well, now that you mention it. I might have been too hasty with the second coat with some of them. Actually the ones having the problem at the moment definitely belong in that group. Now they've been left alone for a week. I guess even if I was to hasty the coats should have cure by now to take another coat, right?

I stir quite well with a large wooden stick and then shake for at least three minutes... But I will increase my efforts. What kind of a stirrer do you use?

And yes... The small bottles are annoying. Thankfully I got a large one at the moment which has a normal shape.

[Orctrader]

I stir quite well with a large wooden stick and then shake for at least three minutes... But I will increase my efforts. What kind of a stirrer do you use?

I use a strong, plastic handle of an old craft brush.

[Remington]

Thank you Orctrader. Your suggestions and opinion are always received thankfully! I will pay special attention to the new information and then give the fellas a new coat today and one again tomorrow. I hope that'll do the trick.