Deccan or Probyns Horse M3 Grant

[BattlewagonBruce]

Struggling to find any ref pics of M3 Grants in Far East.

Grants without side skirts.

Any suggestions?

ta

BB

[Cubs]

Colour or black and white?

[Poiter50]

Try the IWM collection, I found some b&w ones with a quick search "Grant tank in Burma". I also recollect reading of or even seeing a pic of Grants with Lee Cupolas or vice versa but I can't recollect where I saw it. More than likely it goes back to when I was a modeller rather than a gamer.

[BattlewagonBruce]

anything that will help with markings and cammo scheme.

looked at IWM

thanks

[Cubs]

Ah, now, it just so happens my brother is planning to do his PhD on the use of armour in Burma. I'll rattle his cage and see what happens.

[BattlewagonBruce]

great thanks

[Cubs]

Okay, here's the results of the cage rattling -

The British used both Grants and Lees in Burma, with a mixture of the two in units. What they got depended on what was available, so beggars couldn't be choosers and they took US-configured Lees (complete with US-style helmets, Thompsons and other associated 'fittings') when not enough Grants were available.
 
Tanks in Burma were very dark green, a darker shade than in Europe but with no patterning or disruptive camouflage. The Allied white star was painted on the sides of some, but not all. Online colour references are a thin on the ground, but the Imperial War Museum has quite a few photos with markings and other useful references;
 
http://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/205205527
http://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/205205529
http://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/205088015
http://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/205205574
http://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/205205524
http://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/205085629
http://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/205205173
http://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/205205403
http://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/205205484
http://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/205205489
 
etc etc.
 
If you go to the IWM photograph archives search, filter for 'Images', and type in something along the lines of 'Burma tank' (http://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/search?query=burma%20tank&items_per_page=10&page=8&submit=) you'll get loads of photos.
 
Also, Youtube has some rare colour newsreel footage of Burma:
 
- a couple of shots of Grant tanks are seen at the 0200 minute mark.
- M5 Stuart, Sherman and Lee tanks from 0445 to 0505, a Lee at 0525, 0535 and 0547, and an M5 Stuart at 0625.


However, then I got this -

 
Just realised that the chap is looking for Deccan or Probyn's Horse. In which case he shouldn't be using Lee/Grants but Shermans...
 
The Indian Army units that used armour in Burma were:
 
> 5th King Edward VII's Own Lancers (Probyn's Horse) - Shermans,
> 7th Light Cavalry - M5 Stuarts,
> 9th Cavalry (Royal Deccan Horse) - Shermans,
> 11th Light Cavalry (Prince Albert Victor's Own) Frontier Force, 11th 'PAVO' for short - mixed, Shermans (B Squadron) and Daimler armoured cars,
> 16th Light Cavalry - Humber armoured cars,
> 19th King George V's Own Lancers - Shermans,
> 45th Cavalry - M5 Stuarts.
 
The Lee/Grants were British Army and mainly 3rd Carabiniers.
 
British Army tank regiments in Burma:
 
> 3rd Carabiniers - Lee/Grants with some Stuarts also on strength.
> 7th Queen's Own Hussars - M3 Stuarts (Feb-May 1942 retreat only)
> 2nd RTR - M3 Stuarts (Feb-May 1942 retreat only)
> 25th Dragoons - Lee/Grants
> 116th RAC - Shermans
> 146th RAC - Valentines in Jan/Feb 1943 at Donbaik, Lees in Jan 1945 at Ramree Island
> 149th RAC - Lees (+Grants?)
> 150th RAC - Lees (+Grants?)
 
Hope this helps.

[BattlewagonBruce]

I suspected neither of these Indian units had Grants! Thanks for that.

The last IWM shot is tantalizing as there is a long tank name beginning with c and a marking which could be a tiger?

I would love to work these out. I enhanced the photo as best I could but still could not make out the name.

As it happens I have a home mix of Jungle green that I used for a commission of quads and 25 pounders a while back. I think jungle green with a big white star on the side will look great. If i could just identify that name and badge I would be sorted.

Thanks for all the great help.

I will post some shots when she is done (once Warlord are happy)

ta

Bruce

[Cubs]

If you mean the last IWM image, it says 'Caledonian'.

Is that 'tiger' image the one on the front of the turret? Presumably that's a divisional badge, which would make for a quick reference job if you know the armoured divisions in Burma.

[NTM]

Found this pretty helpful myself

http://www.fireandfury.com/painting/burmaarmypaintingguide.pdf

[Cubs]

That is an awesome source.

Straight onto my hard-drive.

[NTM]

RMD is the man when it comes to researching WWII British & Commonwealth forces

[BattlewagonBruce]

all great

cant fiind a div with a Tiger, but it would be an Indian army Div, or maybe Brigade?

Found a 3rd Carabiniers Lee (I think I will follow this with the tank number and name form the IWM stuff), even though it is a Grant I have to do.

http://www.tanks-encyclopedia.com/ww2/US/M3_Lee_Grant.php

Just need to find that Tiger now! It looks like a Burmese Tiger and a bit like the Tiger from Tiger Beer!