Boxer Rebellion Question, please?

[FifteensAway]

So, the Chinese Christians are generally given rather short shrift in most writings on the Legations.  However, it seems they were housed across the canal from the British Legation.  Since there were an estimated 2,800 of them, I figure they were quite an impediment for any attacking Boxer forces.  Which leads me to think they were a reasonably formidable barrier 'protecting' the British legation, at least on that side.

Does anyone have any documented information about these folks and there impact on the siege?

Yes, they lived near starvation, no Europeans tracked there casualties apparently, they were put to work at times, and lived in crowded conditions - that seems to be the extent of the information generally provided.  I'm looking for more than that.

Thanks!

[Keith T]

Not sure you will find much information, all I found that many of the young men were used to help build and repair the defences, maybe even help in the Hospital.
 They were fed a little by the Europeans but many died of starvation, 55 days on very little food no surprise.

 But they were protected by the garrison otherwise the Boxers would have probably killed them.
Sorry that's about as much as I know, find this an interesting period as it led up to the civil war.

Keith

[Inkpaduta]

What I recall is that most were in a separate compound away from the legations.
The Italians or French sent some soldiers to protect them and they experiences were
worse than those in the legations.

[Siaba]

The separate compound you mention is certainly the Pei Tang cathedral. I must check to be sure, but it seemd to me that some of them were given guns to help defending the cathedral.

[Patrice]

I found your question intriguing so I made a quick Google and Qwant research on Chinese Christians 1900 with French words...

Um, I found lists of "martyrs" with sad or gruesome details, on religious/Christian organisations websites but nothing interesting yet from a military/wargaming point of view...

[Inkpaduta]

You are right Siaba. That was what I was thinking of.

[FifteensAway]

Aware of the separate Pei Tang portion of the siege but I was under the impression that the numbers there were separate from those within the Legation quarter.  Going to have to double check that.

Patrice, yes, hard information to come by.  That is why I'm reaching out.  I'm pretty good at internet searching when I really dig but this has been a very challenging hunt.

Appreciate anyone who can shed more light.

[Arundel]

I believe you are correct, 15, that there were two groups of Chinese Christians, one in the Legation Quarter and another in the cathedral. I've always thought the defense of the Pei Tang, with just a handful of young Italian and French marines, hordes of terrified men, women and children, all under the command of a saintly, fearless French bishop (whose name eludes me at the moment) is in many ways far more interesting and dramatic than the better known legation siege. At any rate, unlike the European quarter, the cathedral was subject to almost ceaseless attacks - and it was a very, very close run thing (not sure the Legation siege ever was). Even after the main action was done it took several days for a relief forces to march the few blocks to the Pei Tang. Nobody seems to have thought of it, which seems rather typical.  

Anyway, not really your question, but interesting stuff. I've always thought it would make a cracking game!

[miltiades]

I believe you are correct, 15, that there were two groups of Chinese Christians, one in the Legation Quarter and another in the cathedral. I've always thought the defense of the Pei Tang, with just a handful of young Italian and French marines, hordes of terrified men, women and children, all under the command of a saintly, fearless French bishop (whose name eludes me at the moment) is in many ways far more interesting and dramatic than the better known legation siege. At any rate, unlike the European quarter, the cathedral was subject to almost ceaseless attacks - and it was a very, very close run thing (not sure the Legation siege ever was). Even after the main action was done it took several days for a relief forces to march the few blocks to the Pei Tang. Nobody seems to have thought of it, which seems rather typical.  

Anyway, not really your question, but interesting stuff. I've always thought it would make a cracking game!

This is precisely what happened!
I will post a short reply here, and I will try to offer documentation later. [... in a new reply of course]
The christian chinese were all INSIDE the British Legation and INSIDE THE cATHEDRAL...
There are many diaries-you can find them in internet that clarify the matter. [also Osprey's book on the subject is very good]. A very good question 15, but the answer is that the christian chinese were protected INSIDE THE LEGATIONS...

[Siaba]

I found much informations on the Pei Tang cathedral in a series of issues about the Boxer rebellion published in Miniature Wargames. I have also a french comic book magazine - Tintin - from 1953 about the defense of the cathedral. It is well documented on the uniforms of the boxers, french and italians. The comic is rather short but seems to imply the the chinese convert participated in the defense by building barricades, helping to man guns and some were distributed rifles.

[Patrice]

I never was interested in these events but it's very interesting... when you begin to dig in such things you can't stop...!

A French officer killed in Pé-Tang Cathedral was of Breton origin (although not born in Brittany) his family was from Plougrescant, Brittany... and he is still remembered...  

http://ecole.nav.traditions.free.fr/officiers_henry.htm

[FifteensAway]

miltidades, with respect, you may want to double check.  The European civilians were in the British Legation.  The Chinese Christians were across the canal in Prince Su's palace - at least in the main.  That is in several different sources.  There were about 2700 within the legation quarter.  The Pei Tang area had about 3900.  Perhaps later in the siege they were forced back into the British Legation - but I've seen no evidence to support that.  If you have evidence to the contrary, please share it.  I'm sure others would also like to see it as well.

And while the Pei Tang events are exceptionally noteworthy, my focus is on finding out more about the situation with the Chinese Christians within the Legation Quarter.  While many of them did die during the siege, it'd be interesting to know how many died from starvation versus those who died as a result of hostile action by the Boxers.  Unless there is an extraordinary Chinese scholar here, I doubt that is something we will ever know.

I anticipate allowing the Chinese within the Quarter to act as a barrier between the Boxers and the British during games.  And I don't anticipate allowing the Boxers to slaughter the Christians since there is zero evidence they did that in Peking.  In the countryside, yes.

One thing I have noticed is that no two maps of the legation quarter agree in detail.  About the only 'common' thread is the rough position of the various legations but even that is not entirely consistent.

9/10/17 edit: re-reading Preston and she states that most of the CC deaths were from starvation within the Legation Quarter which helps support my conception for a game.