Polish-Lithuanian Armies 1621-29?

[M.P.]

There is depiction of battle of Górzno somwhere on Michał's blog.

[smirnoff]

Thanks.

is there any evidence for the dress of the hajduks?
I have read some wore a grey/blue coat with red cuff/collars.

[Kadrinazi]

No confirmation from 1626-1629 war, but enough other sources to confirm that blue and red 'żupan' was the most popular.
http://kadrinazi.blogspot.co.uk/2017/09/w-barwie-najnowsze-uzupenienie.html

[smirnoff]

Thanks.
In that image you have at the top of the piece, is he wearing the 'hemp' coloured zupan?

I have 3 units to do, two are blue and red, I thought one could be another colour combination (the Osprey book 1 shows other colours)?

[GamesPoet]

For slightly earlier you may want to watch for inspiration:
1612

Being not in English, is "1612" available with subtitles some where?

Likewise

This link wasn't available to me.

I know its not exactly what your looking for but also given Osprey's Pikeman's Lament an army containing winged hussars may be gaining more interest...

A good set of rules!

[Kadrinazi]

Thanks.
In that image you have at the top of the piece, is he wearing the 'hemp' coloured zupan?

I have 3 units to do, two are blue and red, I thought one could be another colour combination (the Osprey book 1 shows other colours)?

It's haiduk from so called Tablica Gołuchowska:
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Tablica_Go%C5%82uchowska.jpg
and his colour is - for infantryman - rather unusual. Strangely enough we don't have description of haiduks wearing white (like here) or grey (that should be the cheapest one to get at that time). It may something to do with the fact that written descriptions of haiduks' and draby units usually relates to private, guard or district units.

Of course we also have haiduks from Stockholm Roll but yet again we need to remember that units shown there were equipped 'for show', therefore may not be the best indicator of how real units looks in field army. Plenty of fragments from SR is in album on my blog's FB:
https://www.facebook.com/pg/Historycznybot/photos/?tab=album&album_id=1225997217439137

Considering conditions of 1621-1629 war and the role that haiduks played in it (where they usually were left as garrison forces, most of the time in very poor living conditions) good idea could be just mix of different colours within each banner (unit), as soldiers had to find locally whatever clothes were available, once their original 'uniform' was worn out.

[Baron von Wreckedoften]

Considering conditions of 1621-1629 war and the role that haiduks played in it (where they usually were left as garrison forces, most of the time in very poor living conditions) good idea could be just mix of different colours within each banner (unit), as soldiers had to find locally whatever clothes were available, once their original 'uniform' was worn out.

I see this kind of comment quite often on wargames fora and it does make me wonder how soldiers were clothed "unofficially" and how disparate (as opposed to desperate) they would have looked when re-clothed.  Would each man be left to obtain his own replacement clothing - or even just the cloth to make it up - or would "the powers that be" (eg his CO, or more frighteningly his RSM) go looking for a quantity of cloth of the same/similar colour to be made up into a single type of garment for the entire company/unit?  Or would someone from the commissary section, or its equivalent, be constantly on the look out for suitable cloth and keep some stocks, especially in garrisons? 

I know we like to portray our troops in various colours (eg Peninsula British in the odd pair of brahn trowzis among all the white overalls)  but did they not still look vaguely uniform after the company tailors had done their stuff?  Wouldn't issue clothing all wear out at about the same time, and thus be replaced (or need replacing) at the same time?

[Kadrinazi]

Easiest way was to just aquire clothes from local people, usually by force - and it didn't matter if they were on same side. Some armies were much better in providing their own troops with clothes (or at least cloth to make one), for 1621-1629 Swedes are actually good example, as they make big effort to provide their soldiers with proper clothing. With Polish and Lithuanian troops much depended on commander of the unit and type of formation - winged hussars could take care of themselves, poor infantrymen were often starving to death on their posts, so I think matter of clothes was their last problem.

[FierceKitty]

Easiest way was to just aquire clothes from local people, usually by force - and it didn't matter if they were on same side. Some armies were much better in providing their own troops with clothes (or at least cloth to make one), for 1621-1629 Swedes are actually good example, as they make big effort to provide their soldiers with proper clothing. With Polish and Lithuanian troops much depended on commander of the unit and type of formation - winged hussars could take care of themselves, poor infantrymen were often starving to death on their posts, so I think matter of clothes was their last problem.

The poor sods were often freezing too. Clothes weren't a luxury (and I write as a practising nudist).