Command friction on a triereme?

[Irregular Wars Nic]

I am tinkering with some ideas for gaming with ancient galleys - only one or two per player (perfect for multiplayer games). How much command friction would people expect between a trierarch and their crew?

If there are a range of possible orders (for example, choose from move, change speed, turn, ram, board, shoot), should each vessel get a fixed number of orders per turn (say two?), or a variable number of orders (i.e. 1d3, or rolling for successes against a target on a number of dice etc)?

[williamb]

Very little if any for a well trained crew such as Athens, Rhodes, etc.   Crews were well paid professionals.   Rowing on a ship was the highest paying job for anyone who was not a hoplite.   You have the ship's commander, the man handling the rudders, the pipe (aulos) player setting the rowing rhythm. some hoplites, maybe some archers and a few extra crewmen to provide water for the rowers and replace broken oars.   See YouTube videos of Trireme Olympias  https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=trireme+olympias  this one in particular 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZcsrNrRkQis][urn]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZcsrNrRkQis[/url]  For better information about galley warfare I recommend this blog http://ramsravensandwrecks.blogspot.com/  check the music label for the type of pipes used.

[rumacara]

Also worth reading Osprey New Vanguard:
Ancient Greek Warships 500-322 BC
Warships of the Ancient World 3000-500 BC

[Captain Harlock]

One note. The Athenian fleet depended not only on state money but sporsorships also. Rich Athenian citizens were expected to donate money for the building of ships and once those were done they had the option to hand them over to a captain, or take the seat of command themselves.
I guess that leaves option for many scenarios where a battle hardened crew have to obey some kind of rich milksop that know nothing about seamanship 

[Arrigo]

One note. The Athenian fleet depended not only on state money but sporsorships also. Rich Athenian citizens were expected to donate money for the building of ships and once those were done they had the option to hand them over to a captain, or take the seat of command themselves.
I guess that leaves option for many scenarios where a battle hardened crew have to obey some kind of rich milksop that know nothing about seamanship 

I doubt it is a proper definition. Context is everything. These 'rich milksop' were probably traders who owns and skippered trading vessels, making them professionals. Also considering the risk involved in civilian and  military naval jobs, the fact that Athens had a reputation for harshness on defeated commanders, at all levels... and that despite renaissance, neoclassical, and romantic views Greece was a warlike culture, there are not many options for the scenario you describe, at least not in the big navies.

Arrigo

[zippyfusenet]

Command friction on a trireme...

"Row, row, row your boat gently down the stream,
"Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily..."

"For the love of Lady Athena, shut up and just beat the drum, Kritias!"

[Irregular Wars Nic]

Command friction on a trireme...

"Row, row, row your boat gently down the stream,
"Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily..."

"For the love of Lady Athena, shut up and just beat the drum, Kritias!"

 

Closest thing to answering my original question yet.

So it seems that people don't expect too much friction as a game mechanic when giving orders to the crew (oarsmen and apobatai/toxotai)? Unless of course you're the archon's nephew who has never stood in a boat before.

[nervisfr]

instead of friction may be cohesion could be the way to add confusion in the game.....especially with several players in the same side....

[Irregular Wars Nic]

instead of friction may be cohesion could be the way to add confusion in the game.....especially with several players in the same side....

Eric, you mean cohesion on board the same vessel? Or between players/vessels on the same 'side'?

[nervisfr]

ah sorry,

between players.....

When i run a multi-players game scenario, i like to see players from the same side yelling to each other for disagreement in tactical move or choice....as in reality
Lots of fun in it.

The best way for this is to create a fog of war in order/move sequence......with counters for example