6mm or 15mm Sci Fi ?

[jetengine]

I'm at a quandary.

I want to work on some small scale stuff next year. Fantasy is already locked in at 10mm but I've no idea for sci fi. What would you say are the pros and cons of both 6mm  and 15mm ? I'm in the UK as well if that helps. Also whilst I'm happy enough to buy the odd GW figure I'm not really interested in Epic much before I get people spamming "Play Epic"

[Brummie]

I have both, and although I very much like the aesthetic of 6mm, I'd say 15mm just has a lot more available.

There aren't really many expanding 6mm sci fi lines out there right now, and existing ones are quite old (GZG for example). I'm pretty sure Khurasan, Brigade and Darkest Star are the only companies expanding their 6mm lines or have newish stuff. Plasmablast is one company worth checking out for some unique designs.

3D printing has certainly helped both massively, but again, seemingly more available for 15mm.

The biggest benefit for 6mm is you can include more verticality though, skyscrapers etc and ships/mechs much better than 15mm. I have mechs in both scales and whilst they're very impressive in 15mm they do take up a lot of table room.

[jetengine]

I have both, and although I very much like the aesthetic of 6mm, I'd say 15mm just has a lot more available.

There aren't really many expanding 6mm sci fi lines out there right now, and existing ones are quite old (GZG for example). I'm pretty sure Khurasan, Brigade and Darkest Star are the only companies expanding their 6mm lines or have newish stuff. Plasmablast is one company worth checking out for some unique designs.

3D printing has certainly helped both massively, but again, seemingly more available for 15mm.

The biggest benefit for 6mm is you can include more verticality though, skyscrapers etc and ships/mechs much better than 15mm. I have mechs in both scales and whilst they're very impressive in 15mm they do take up a lot of table room.

Yeah, Khurasan are a no go since the shipping would be a bit much. I like Brigade but they're a tad samey, never heard of Darkest Star.

[Evil Dave]

Vanguard miniatures, onslaught miniatures and microworld games are all expanding 6mm.

Re OT. 6 is great for mass battle. Epic Armageddon and Dirtside II are the best ony opinion. I've been painting 15mm GZG the last month or two. They paint up quick. Haven't found a ruleset I want to try yet. I might do Star Wars Miniatures Battles though. From WEG.

[Major_Gilbear]

Both 6mm and 15mm are much more available for sci-fi than 10mm, so I guess which of the two you go for depends on the scale of game you hope to play?

I know you said "don't mention Epic" as a game, but it is responsible for a lot of current 6mm sci-fi models.

Depending on resources, if you have the time/space/money available, it might be a better decision to invest in a good 3d resin printer than trying to pin down a specific scale - that way you can print whatever armies you want to whatever scale you please.

In terms of pros and cons, the only "big" item of note is that you can you can use 15mm as single models, but still multi-base both 6mm and 15mm depending on what you prefer. So whilst 6mm gives you a better "mass" feel when all multi-based, the cost per base of a given size is not all that different. In other words, something like 5nr 6mm models on a 20x20mm base are about the same cost as 2nr 15mm models on a 20x 20mm base. Only if you base/play as single models is there a notable difference.

As for purchasing old Epic figures... If you don't get a deal at a car boot sale or such (assuming such a thing is currently even possible...), you may as well buy new for the cost. 

If you don't mind me asking, what sort of games do you have planned? Might be a better way to look as what would suit best.

[War Monkey]

There are a great number of Suppliers in the UK. As mentioned earlier there is GZG (Ground Zero Games), Brigade Models, Alternative Army, and RPE Miniatures and Games, they don't have 6mm, however they have the "Critical Mass" in 15mm which is a really nice line.

You can do almost as much as you want in both scales it just matters as to how much room you have to play. You can get a lot of action out of 1x1 meter table for both scales. The next question is how much storage space you want to use. Do you have, just a cabinet or a small wall of shelves. If it is just a cabinet, then go for the 6mm. If you have a small wall of shelves the go for the 15mm. Of course, if you have the wall option then go for both.

Next is what scale of battles is it, you are wishing to do? Squad on squad, platoon on platoon, company on company 15mm is good. If you are wanting to go for large battles Companies vs companies, Battalion level or better then 6mm might be your way to go.

Rules, there are as many rules out there as there is opinions Dirtside from GZG is a good option for both 6 and 15 as well as Brigade Models and there are others out there, you'll just have to go thru and figure which better suits you. You may want to look a Solo Rules too depending on gaming groups that are available in your area, I live in the US in the middle of farm country the nearest such groups for me is over 2 hours away. So yes, I have a few solo rules I work with.

In the 3D printing world, there are a lot of options if you own a printer and services if you don't own one as well. I think there is an Etsy version in the UK so there would be a good place to start looking if there is. I am sure that there are other printing services you can find.

The finial question is, how buried under the lead mountain you want to be?

There are my two cents I hope it helps. There is no real Pro's or Con's unless it's a matter of space.

[BeneathALeadMountain]

Everything War Monkey just said, just re-read the post above. 15mm for skirmish, 6mm for tanks. GZG is brilliant and a trove of miniature excellence in 15/6mm. I love some of the stargrunt 15mm. Maybe Peter Pig for some low tech future 15mm. Dirt side is a great 6mm game. Lots of options. Smaller scales provide a broad palette for the imagination.

BALM

[Major_Gilbear]

Well, if we're throwing rules into the mix, Tomorrow's War (of Ambush Alley Games) works okay at 15 - though 6mm may be a push -  and Future War Commander (AKA "Warmaster in Space") are both worth a peek as models/setting agnostic rules for future combat with small scale figures. Both work with bigger scales too, in case you want to do any "commando missions" between bigger scale games in campaigns.

[Cat]

Both are good scales, as is 10mm – 1/144 in the middle.
 
Deciding factors are how big do you want big vehicles in your games and how much play area do you have?
 
My primary games these days are 6mm Ogre and BattleTech Alpha Strike.  Ogre and old Ral Partha infantry are 8mm, the vehicles are 1/285.  (New Iron Wind mechs and infantry are quite scale creepy.)
 
I have enough plastic kits on hand, that when I get inspired to build them I will go on to play Battledroids Alpha Strike with the 1/144 models that came with the original version of the game.
: 3
 
If you want an infantry centric game, then 15mm might make the most sense for being able to easily identify different troops types and weapons out on the table.

[Cacique Caribe]

Jetengine

I guess it all depends on what size combat you’re after.  Skirmish, large scale or something in between?

The larger the number of figures, like massed battles, the more I would be inclined to go smaller in figure size.  But, for skirmish, I would definitely go with 15mm.

Dan

[Brummie]

If shipping is an issue then that'd discount most of the 6mm producers as Darkest Star and Microworld are all U.S.

Plasmablast is Greek and there is one other company in Poland that does 6mm but forgot their names.

Issue with Vanguard and some other U.K companies is although they're very nice they are Not Epic minis, which the OP isn't interested in?

That'd leave GZG and Brigade really for 6mm, Vanguard and Bradley Miniatures at Alternative are more Not Epic ish.

For 15mm you have GZG, Brigade, RPE, White Dragon, Void Star and Alternative armies (and Vanguard as they do some limited 15mm).

15mm has quite the range for game styles from RPGs to Squad level (Tomorrow's War) to Tank Battles (Hammer Slammers) involving multiple platoons, whereas 6mm is best for Company size battles with Mechs and Low Orbit ships/more aircraft.

Another thought: Choice of Aliens is more abundant in 15mm. One of my biggest complaints for 6mm is everything is very Human oriented. I don't think GZG ever translated his new Crusties or Kra-Vak into 6mm (latter has some older vehicles about). RPE has some nice aliens, again not in 6mm.

[jetengine]

I've no interest in skirmish (if your going to skirmish, go 28mm) and definitely want something with mechs. Table size is between 4x4 to 6x6. I'll be playing at a club/FLGS so it's a tad irrelevant. Storage IS an issue so something I can shove in a magnetised RUB would be good. Rules wise I want something with element basing. I don't want to just replicate my 28mm stuff 50% smaller you know?

I've alsò neither the time, space, cash or frankly inclination to go down the 3d print route. It's too much of a faff and I'd rather just throw cash at someone who already printed and did the clean up for me.

[Brummie]

Suppose it's what you define as Skirmish??

My 15mm forces are quite large with multiple platoons of infantry most kitted out with IFVs, Drones (both air and land based), weapons crews etc.

It then escalates with Tanks, Super Tanks, Light Mechs to Heavy Mechs. VTOLs and Dropships. Arty both SPG and Missile based. My thread is buried somewhere around here and I plan to show off some completed base armies soon but there are some pics of units on there.

Good thing with 15mm is it is abundant enough you can really pick and choose how you feel your army/armies should operate.

If you have limited table space though 6mm is probably more adequate, because even at 15mm storage will become an issue if your armies become quite large (I've had Dropships printed in 15mm and they're the size of a 28mm tank) Plus for table space if it's limited 6mm is best purely because it helps avoid Tank Parking Lot syndrome. You want to be able to Fire and Maneuver after all.

[Major_Gilbear]

@ jetengine:

Okay, so you want small-scale multibased figures for an unspecified element-style sci-fi game. That is helpful to know (and probably should have been mentioned in the first post)! 

Personally, one of the more attractive advantages of going all the way down to 6mm is the possibility of having lots of armour on the table. I have also generally found it much easier to scale bigger models down for use in 6mm through adjustment of key details, than trying to use small models at a bigger (say 15mm) scale. For very small/light vehicles and cannons, I would base these anyway (and probably in 2s or 3s). For example a 15mm dropship could be a huge 6mm troop transport, but trying to use 6mm flyers in 15mm would mostly limit them to being drones or fighters.

You do have more choice in 15mm, it's true, but then again it's only hugely relevant if you want to be able to make out individual details in single troops. If you're mass-painting, mass-basing, and playing whole swarms of units on the table, then I think you can achieve the variation you need between units through model density and paintjob (which, to a large extent, is how many Epic Space Marine payers of old used to do it too).

In fact, at 6mm, you can even crossover WW2 or Modern units if you're after something more Grimdark or near-future. Again, small modifications to the vehicles, a suitable paintjob, and you're done - at 6mm nobody is going to be able to tell that the silver weapons you've painted in your troops hands are bolt action rifles, assault rifles, or laser guns!

Another advantage of 6mm is obviously raw size - it's smaller, so storage is generally easier.

Fair points on not wanting to get a 3D printer, but I thought it worth mentioning as the small scale stuff is where having access to one really shines.

Anyway, I hope that helps you, and I look forward to seeing your future project.

[Mako]

Why not both?

6mm is best for larger battles with larger numbers of troops and vehicles.  Generally, I'd say it is a more vehicle-centric scale, since the infantry are very small and details on them can be hard to see when standing above.

15mm (18mm now due to scale creep of some ranges, which is a good thing in Sci-Fi, in my opinion) is more infantry-centric, and lends itself to either individual or group troop basing.  You can still field a decent number of vehicles in this scale too, though the firing ranges and maneuvering space will be much smaller than if you were using 6mm minis.

Personally, I like both for the above reasons.

It is certainly NOT economical to do both scales, but it is a hobby, so I don't mind, and you can buy more of one scale, and a limited number of the other, if you prefer, in order to keep that from breaking your bank account.