Spartans

[GerryB21]

When did the Spartan Infantry chamge over from the Corinthian helemt to the later  ( more Theban ) typ helmet and would there be a transition period when both were in use ?

[mr ed]

It's debatable if there even really was a swap by the Spartans to the pilos helmet, and if there was then to what extent it was uniform, but roughly after the start of the Peloponnesian War in 431 seems to be the suggested date. There seems to have been a general lightening in the equipment of hoplites through that conflict on both (all?) sides, including a move to more open-faced styles of helmets. The pilos helmet certainly wasn't peculiarly Spartan.

All of this is compounded by the fact that the pilos helmet is named after the pilos hat. It's pretty difficult to tell in many cases if the helmets that look like hats in Greek coins and pots etc aren't, well, just hats actually.

I've said before on this one that I think if you're choosing miniatures for this period then this is definitely a case where you can let the rule of cool decide for you and no-one can honestly tell you you're wrong. Doubtless that won't stop them trying.

[guitarheroandy]

I'm always dubious about specific dates where armour changed or this helmet or that helmet became 'the norm'. In this period there wasn't really a concept of uniform per se and each warrior purchased his own gear, so he'd buy what he liked, could afford and/or what was available locally. This would obviously lead to huge variations across armies and units within them and kit was replaced as it wore out. Even allegedly 'uniform' armies like the Romans were probably, in reality, a right mishmash of kit throughout their history.
As war-gamers we are obsessed with the concept of uniformity because it looks cool on the table. That's why you see so many Spartan hoplite phalanxes with that symbol on the shield and with pilos helmets. Because they look good!
If you want your Spartans to wear those helmets (or not) my advice would be to go with what you fancy and what looks cool to you. If button-counters want to count buttons and grumble, let them. They like their toys to look a certain way too!
Ultimately we are all gamers who like our toys and who have our own take on what the sources tell us, which for periods like this is often 'not very much' so where's the right and wrong? It won't make any difference to the way your models fight on the table whether they wear Corinthian or Pilos helmets.
Enjoy your project!

[Ethelred the Almost Ready]

Hoplite arms were designed for close order mass combat.  As time went by the equipment became somewhat lighter - possibly because of cost, probably because of the increasing use of light troops and the major powers operating in more challenging environments against lighter enemies.  There was a gradual moveaway from bronze armour and helmets also tended towards being more open.  The Corinthian helmet was never the only helmet worn and over time became less common.
As Andy states, the panoply would come down to individual taste.  Do I want the added protection of aCorinthian helmet, or do I want better vision and hearing of a Boeotian helmet, or try to have the best of both worlds and wear an Attic helmet?  Similar consideration would have been taken for what type of armour a hoplite would wear, whether or not to wear greaves etc.  The only uniform things would be the shield shape (but some variation in size and painted individually) and the dory (spear).
Nice uniform hedgehog phalanxes look nice on the table, but are likely to be a far cry from reality.
Personally, if I were doing 15mm figures I would be happy to have a monoposed, mono-helmeted phalanx. If doing 28mm I would go for a mix of armour and helmets.


The graphic in the link is far from perfect and probably out of date, but gives some idea about how helmets evolved.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/ancientgreekmapsandmore/2149082426

[armchairgeneral]

I asked the same question here 

https://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=128758.msg1630187#msg1630187

[GerryB21]

Thanks Guys

[vodkafan]

I always thought the Corinthian helmet looked way cooler. The Pilos helmet is far behind and makes the Spartans look like the flower pot men to me. But each to their own!

[Ethelred the Almost Ready]

I always thought the Corinthian helmet looked way cooler. The Pilos helmet is far behind and makes the Spartans look like the flower pot men to me. But each to their own!

"If a Helot comes along
You must whip it
Or a Persian in a thong
You must whip it"

Apologies to those who weren't around in the 80s and don't get this

[Fremitus Borealis]

"If a Helot comes along
You must whip it
Or a Persian in a thong
You must whip it"

Apologies to those who weren't around in the 80s and don't get this

Oh my gods, I laughed way too hard 

[VonAkers]

Gentlemen Bravo
Good question from Gerry B21, well answered by all with Sage advise, and finally the rapier wit of  Ethelred the Almost Ready.. very funny indeed ..
GerryB21 , having just done an Epic Peloponnesian  war Project here is my 2 cents worth.
I didnt realise that the start of my project that the Hoplites had changed , some what .
As a guide please look at the foundry Greek Range.
To get a semi uniformed but  different look  , I have augmented the Mostly Pilos Helmeted Spartans with Corinthian Helmeted Officers , and a Few other Variations .
In particular the Scarab Miniatures are most certainly an excellent fit with the Foundry in every way , and offer several Variations of helmets ,add in aa bit of work to the Front Rank Shields .. and wella !!!!!!!!!!!
Hope this helps . 
Ps Are we not men? ... no we are Devo !!!

[Rochejaquelein]

This is how I see it after doing my own research in something not completely dissimilar (except Roman instead).
https://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=127404.msg1609366#msg1609366

Just because some weaponry or armor is out of date doesn't mean its abandoned wholesale immediately. There's a photo in one of my Ospreys of a 2th century Roman helmet hacked apart to match the fashions of the 4th century. The skeletons belonging to the Gotlanders at the battle of Visby (1361) were discovered wearing armor over a generation out of date.  Even today, some countries are still using the WW2 era M1 helmet in their armies despite the US starting to replace them in the early to mid 1980s.

I am by no means a historian and my knowledge of Greek panoply is much more limited than Republican Roman, but what I would do is pick a starting date for the abandonment of the Corinthian helmet (start of the Peloponnesian War?) and for every 10 years or so afterwards, gradually decrease the amount of Corinthian helmets and increase all the other variants until its disappearance by Alexander's time in the mid 4th century. With this framework, the Battle of Leuctra in 371 would have maybe a handful of Corinthian helmets out of hundreds of hoplites while the battle of Pylos in 425 bc would be overwhelmingly full of Corinthian helmets.