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Author Topic: How effective was the Soviet ptrd-41?  (Read 7573 times)

Offline n815e

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Re: How effective was the Soviet ptrd-41?
« Reply #15 on: 13 July 2010, 01:52:21 PM »
Schurtzen armor was created to combat anti-tank rifles.  If Panthers and Tigers was fitted with it, then you can bet the rifles were doing something.
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Offline Col.Stone

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Re: How effective was the Soviet ptrd-41?
« Reply #16 on: 13 July 2010, 03:22:38 PM »
my total-amateur opinion is that they could probably make quite a mess of  tracks and other softish bits around there, may not sound like all that, but sitting cats are sitting cats.. ;)
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Offline carlos marighela

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Re: How effective was the Soviet ptrd-41?
« Reply #17 on: 13 July 2010, 07:30:50 PM »
Quote from: n815e on 13 July 2010, 01:52:21 PM
Schurtzen armor was created to combat anti-tank rifles.  If Panthers and Tigers was fitted with it, then you can bet the rifles were doing something.

Panthers and Tigers weren't fitted with schürzen though.
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Offline Blackwolf

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Re: How effective was the Soviet ptrd-41?
« Reply #18 on: 14 July 2010, 06:27:29 AM »
Shurzten were placed as a protection against hollow charges such as the PIAT,ie they would explode early on the plate therefore dissipating before getting to the hull of the vehicle.You could shoot at Panthers and Tigers with a 75mm and still see it bounce off,an ATR was not a worry at all.
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Offline n815e

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Re: How effective was the Soviet ptrd-41?
« Reply #19 on: 14 July 2010, 02:56:22 PM »
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Offline Calimero

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Re: How effective was the Soviet ptrd-41?
« Reply #20 on: 14 July 2010, 03:17:06 PM »
Quote from: n815e on 14 July 2010, 02:56:22 PM
Facts, please.  Let's not perpetuate myths.   :'(

Panthers and Tigers were fitted with skirts.
http://www.airbum.com/BlogPix/TTM-KingTiger.Model-LW.jpg
http://www.lorwings.net/314/images/kingtiger.jpg
http://www.odms-club.com/convention/PantherTankColor.jpg
http://www.badassoftheweek.com/panther-ausfg1.jpg

I always thought that these kind of skirts were to keep the dust down rather than protective device like the ones on Pz IVs and StuG… :?
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Offline n815e

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Re: How effective was the Soviet ptrd-41?
« Reply #21 on: 14 July 2010, 08:59:54 PM »
Perhaps with the Tigers.
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Offline carlos marighela

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Re: How effective was the Soviet ptrd-41?
« Reply #22 on: 14 July 2010, 09:37:13 PM »
The side skirts on the Tiger and Panther are just that, they are not schürzen, which were large detachable plates.

It is true that an ATR round would damage running gear or tracks but if it comes to it so will the concentrated fire  a heavy machine gun.

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Offline gloriousbattle

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Re: How effective was the Soviet ptrd-41?
« Reply #23 on: 15 July 2010, 03:53:41 AM »
Quote from: carlos marighela on 14 July 2010, 09:37:13 PM
The side skirts on the Tiger and Panther are just that, they are not schürzen, which were large detachable plates.

It is true that an ATR round would damage running gear or tracks but if it comes to it so will the concentrated fire  a heavy machine gun.



I wouldn't want to be the guy firing that machinegun.  Seems like the atr would have a decent chance with a single shot of knocking out a tread, but if I have to concentrate the fire of my .50 cal on a Tiger that is coming straight at me...  :o
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Offline carlos marighela

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Re: How effective was the Soviet ptrd-41?
« Reply #24 on: 15 July 2010, 09:53:29 AM »
Frankly, I wouldn't fancy either option. But at least with the machinegun you have some chance of taking out optics, vision blocks, radio aerials etc as well as possibly breaking a track pin, through weight of fire. Personally I'd prefer a radio and a 155mm battery on call.
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Offline Doomhippie

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Re: How effective was the Soviet ptrd-41?
« Reply #25 on: 15 July 2010, 03:14:56 PM »
Quote from: carlos marighela on 15 July 2010, 09:53:29 AM
Frankly, I wouldn't fancy either option. But at least with the machinegun you have some chance of taking out optics, vision blocks, radio aerials etc as well as possibly breaking a track pin, through weight of fire. Personally I'd prefer a radio and a 155mm battery on call.

No, I'd prefer my warm bed, a cup of coffee and let the heroes of this world sort it out...  :D

But we are disgressing...

I guess the danger with any anti-tank weapon (or any weapon actually) is, that if used under perfect conditions they normally achieve a certain result. However, on the battlefields you very rarely encounter perfect conditions. Apart from human mistakes there are a thousand things that could go wrong. So if a given weapon is theoretically able to do soemthing reality often looks a lot different. No mind you I don't have any literature about the effectiveness of ATR but just as the 37mm AT-Gun was only effective against lightly armoured vehicles I believe ATR would have severe limitations in their actual effectiveness in the field.
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Offline n815e

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Re: How effective was the Soviet ptrd-41?
« Reply #26 on: 15 July 2010, 04:01:33 PM »
"The Schürzen on the Panther (sometimes mistakenly referred to as "fenders") covers the area from the top of the road wheels to where the hull extends out over the tracks.  This is clearly designed to protect the crew and vital machinery (not the ammunition stores).  The Schürzen are clipped or bolted directly to brackets mounted to the hull. "

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Offline BigLee

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Re: How effective was the Soviet ptrd-41?
« Reply #27 on: 22 July 2010, 01:57:32 PM »
I saw a PTRD41 at a recent living history event.



The reenactors said that it was effective against PzKfwIII's but against anything bigger it was most effective taking out sights and vision ports...but you had to be close and a very good shot for that to work.
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Offline gloriousbattle

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Re: How effective was the Soviet ptrd-41?
« Reply #28 on: 22 July 2010, 02:29:57 PM »
Quote from: BigLee on 22 July 2010, 01:57:32 PM
I saw a PTRD41 at a recent living history event.



The reenactors said that it was effective against PzKfwIII's but against anything bigger it was most effective taking out sights and vision ports...but you had to be close and a very good shot for that to work.

Thanks for this!  Neat little addition.
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Re: How effective was the Soviet ptrd-41?
« Reply #29 on: 22 July 2010, 03:57:40 PM »
the reenactors look cute

maybe they meant paintball ammunition?
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