Northumberlands Command at 2nd St Albans

[Nevyen]

Wondering if I can get some help with working out some of the Nobles who would have been in this formation - 

Obviously Northumberland is in there  but would like 2 more nobles to represent in terms of livery and flags.

Kind regards

[Hu Rhu]

The Poleaxed sourcebook lists some 50 Lancastrians in total including these key magnates present at the battle: Somerset, Exeter, Devon, Trollope, Codnor, Fitzhugh, Geystoke, Clifford, Roos, and Northumberland. 

The same source suggests that Clifford, Roos, Northumberland and (another?) Percy were in the same 'battle' although it lists Clifford as the 'battle commander'.  Given their affiliation and connections this is a very reasonable suggestion that they fought together.

Hope that helps.

[Nevyen]

Thats brilliant !  thanks so much

[Arlequín]

I'll back up what Hu Rhu said. Contingents were usually tied by region and local marriage connections, although title does not always connect to region (Exeter's lands were mostly in the North for example). The Percy families ties were all in the North and with the exception of the Neville's and their associates (except Lord Neville's side of the family), were linked with virtually all the major nobles in some form or another.

You're quite spoiled for choice actually... personally I'd plump for Clifford as a must-have, as their family ties go way back to before the Neville-Percy dispute in the early 1450's and they would have almost certainly have associated a great deal through their respective fathers' relationship.

The 'other Percy' Hu Rhu mentions is almost certainly Northumberland's younger brother Sir Ralph.

[Atheling]

I'll back up what Hu Rhu said. Contingents were usually tied by region and local marriage connections, although title does not always connect to region (Exeter's lands were mostly in the North for example). The Percy families ties were all in the North and with the exception of the Neville's and their associates (except Lord Neville's side of the family), were linked with virtually all the major nobles in some form or another.

You're quite spoiled for choice actually... personally I'd plump for Clifford as a must-have, as their family ties go way back to before the Neville-Percy dispute in the early 1450's and they would have almost certainly have associated a great deal through their respective fathers' relationship.

The 'other Percy' Hu Rhu mentions is almost certainly Northumberland's younger brother Sir Ralph.

Is support of the above comments, in a general way you could make a case for parts of the Wars of the Roses being a fight between the North and the South! As I say, in a general way.

Darrell.

[Nevyen]

As far as flags go I know the Lance and Longbow society books are good - but who would do an good range of flags?

[Arlequín]

Is support of the above comments, in a general way you could make a case for parts of the Wars of the Roses being a fight between the North and the South! As I say, in a general way.

Darrell.

Agreed, depending on the particular time, it was variously a conflict between; North and South, the North West versus the Midlands and of course Yorkshire versus Yorkshire.

 

As far as flags go I know the Lance and Longbow society books are good - but who would do an good range of flags?

The L&LBS have or had their own range of flags (Freezywater?), as featured in the books... but there are others, which in my humble opinion are better:

http://www.littlebigmenstudios.com/catalog/

This guy (Pete) on e-bay has some nice looking ones too: http://www.ebay.com.au/usr/petes_flags?_trksid=p2047675.l2559 and his great blog is here: http://thegreatitalianwars.blogspot.co.uk/

and the 'Flag Dude' has a following that like his stuff: http://flagdude.com/home.do

[Atheling]

Agreed, depending on the particular time, it was variously a conflict between; North and South, the North West versus the Midlands and of course Yorkshire versus Yorkshire.

 

The L&LBS have or had their own range of flags (Freezywater?), as featured in the books... but there are others, which in my humble opinion are better:

http://www.littlebigmenstudios.com/catalog/

Agreed. Steve has a real talent when it comes to transfers!! 

This guy (Pete) on e-bay has some nice looking ones too: http://www.ebay.com.au/usr/petes_flags?_trksid=p2047675.l2559 and his great blog is here: http://thegreatitalianwars.blogspot.co.uk/

Again, I very much agree. Pete's was kind enough to send me the banners for the Francesco Gonzaga vignette (pic below) and they are little beauties! They really are!! 

Darrell.

[Hu Rhu]

As far as flags go I know the Lance and Longbow society books are good - but who would do an good range of flags?

I would go for Freezywater flags, who not only do that magnates and named lords (Clifford, Percy etc) but the lesser knights who are known (or thought) to have been present.  The only down side of their system is that you may have to buy a number of sets to get all the nobles you need.  Link is below.

http://www.vexillia.ltd.uk/freezywater/pdf/LtdFreezywaterWOTRCatalogue.pdf

[Steve F]

Terrific little vignette, there.