Help with Russian grenadier regiments, fusiliers

[Fuzzywuzzieswiflasers]

Hello everyone.

I'm looking for links or references to the uniforms of the fusiliers in Russian grenadier regiments from 1812.

My sources say a grenadier regiment had one company of grenadiers and three companies of fusiliers. I cannot find any information on the dress of these regiments.

Did the fusiliers have plumes or was it just the grenadier company as it was for musketeer or jaeger regiments. What colours were pom-poms, shako cords etc.

Any ideas?

Cheers
Fuzzy.

[Elk101]

I think it is basically:

Three battalions per regiment with the second battalion as the depot units. There were three fusilier companies plus one grenadier company split into one carabinier platoon and one tirailleur platoon per battalion.

Most sources agree that in 1812 grenadier regiments wore the dark green infantry jacket with red cuffs and red collars. The shoulder straps for all grenadier regiments were apparently red with the regimental number in yellow, though I've also seen white referenced. I've also read that the grenadiers in the musketeer regiments used the musketeer shoulder strap convention post Inspection system.

Partridge and Oliver's book on the 'British Army and her Allies' states "the grenadier regiments, the grenadier companies and the carabinier companies had plumes". These would have been the tall, narrow plumes from 1811 rather than the thick busch plumes. I seem to recall there's quite a bit of commentary from 1812 that suggests that the fatigue cap was often worn instead of the shako. The piping would have been red for grenadiers.

I've read that the grenadiers had red pom poms for the 1st battalion and tirailleurs had yellow; grenadiers had red over green in the 2nd battalion and tirailleurs had yellow over green; grenadiers had red over light blue in the 3rd battalion and tirailleurs had yellow over light blue.

Sword knots had white straps and fringe. Grenadiers of the 1st battalion had a red bell and rings and tirailleurs were yellow ; grenadiers of the 2nd battalion had a red bell with green rings and the tirailleurs had a yellow bell with green rings; grenadiers of the 3rd battalion had a red bell with light blue rings and the tirailleurs had a yellow bell with light blue rings.

From 1809 all shako cords would have been white with officers' silver.

I've read mixed statements as to whether the greatcoat cuffs were coloured. It is feasible that this applied to some regiments only. They would have been red for grenadiers.

There's a lot of conflicting stuff out there. I'm no expert,  this was just from a quick glance at some of my books. I just noticed that you hadn't had any replies so I thought I'd start things off.

[PAULSPENCE]

Hi,

This is tricky as I looked into it some time ago too.

I concluded that in Grenadier regiments all 4 companies had plumes and have painted my units accordingly.

Can't quite track down all the sources but that below had the advantage of being succinct in the very complicated area of Russian uniforms!

http://www.napoleon-series.org/cgi-bin/forum/archive2006_config.pl?md=read;id=70785

Interestingly, my Russian Grenadier battalion are all purchased as "battalion packs" from Elite Miniatures and all come with plumes.

Just one final point, I know that accuracy is important but I do like to be able to differentiate my grenadiers so lean towards them having plumes!

Cheers,

Paul

[Elk101]

Yeah, I also went with the plumes for all companies in grenadier battalions (apart from the ones I have in fatigue caps for variety).

The Osprey on Russian Napoleonic Infantry isn't bad. I seem to recall it has some plates showing the NCO markings which were helpful (if it's that book I'm thinking of?). The Haythornthwhaite book 'Uniforms of 1812' is also very useful for the colour plates.

[Arthur]

Fuzzy

From Viskovatov's seminal work on the Russian army :

"4 February 1811— Grenadiers, Marksmen [strelki], and Fusiliers, and in general all combatant ranks including officers, have the shakos’ former thick plumes replaced with new ones 16 1/2 inches high, 5 3/4 inches wide at the top, and 1 3/4 inches wide at the bottom (Illus. 1319) (716)"

The main uniform difference between the grenadier and fusilier companies in a grenadier battalion would have been the shako badge, fusiliers having a single grenade whereas the grenadier displayed their distinctive three-grenade badge. But all, as stated above, would have worn the plume, including the marksmen platoon.  

A free online version of Mark Conrad's translation of Viskovatov can be found by clicking on the link below :

http://marksrussianmilitaryhistory.info/V10BAll.htm  

You may also want to have a look at the page below, which updates and occasionally corrects Viskovatov's material. It will also tell you everything you want to know about pompoms, sword knots, etc.

http://zaotlichiye.net63.net/allfacings.html

[Greystreak]

The only clarification I would add to the excellent advice provided above, is that the ammunition pouches of both grenadiers and fusiliers sported the 3-flaming grenades brass badge.

Pompons and swordknots are discussed on Jonathan Gingerich's site (linked by Arthur above), however you may find the following illustration handier than the graphic on JG's site.  NCO's pompon and swordknot on the left, then left-to-right, 1st battalion, 2nd battalion, etc. in vertical columns, with grenadier and strelkovi/sharpshooter platoon pompons/knots on top, and fusilier company pompons and swordnots below.

[Elk101]

That's an excellent graphic Greystreak, very useful indeed. I forgot to mention the shako badges and funnily enough I'm just painting some Russians now for Sharp Practice deployment points.