PzKfw IVH - Rubicon Models vs Warlord Games

[Heisler]

I did a comparison build between the Rubicon Models PzKfw IV kit (which can build an F2, G or H, although in a pinch you could build an F1 its just missing the aerial deflector) and the Warlord Games PzKfw IV kits (which can build an F1, F2, G or H).

Its four posts with plenty of pictures, perhaps not my best model building but its good enough to make a decision if you are waffling between the two.



http://wargamesandrailroads.blogspot.com/2017/03/pzkfw-ivh-warlord-games-vs-rubicon.html
http://wargamesandrailroads.blogspot.com/2017/03/pzkfw-ivh-warlord-games-vs-rubicon_28.html
http://wargamesandrailroads.blogspot.com/2017/03/pzkfw-ivh-warlord-games-vs-rubicon_29.html
http://wargamesandrailroads.blogspot.com/2017/04/pzkfw-ivh-warlord-games-vs-rubicon.html

[CptJake]

Nice write ups and pictures.

I built the Warlord Stug III and the skirts/brackets drove me nuts.   A real pain to get them in place correctly, a pain I exacerbated by deciding to model a section of skirt missing on each side.





Of course, I am positive that after all the effort they will get torn off during a game.

 

Seeing similar skirts on the Warlord PZ IV, especially for the turret, makes it pretty unlikely I'll ever grab that one.

Thanks for the review/comparison.

[Ultravanillasmurf]

Rubicon have discontinued their original Panzer IV, they are developing a new Panzer IV range.

The developing story is here:
http://forum.rubiconmodels.com/index.php?topic=544.0

There are 12 pages currently.

[Ultravanillasmurf]

I agree the skirt supports are hard work.






I have managed to attach them to the Warlord Panzer IV, but that is also work in progress.

[Wyrmalla]

Of the two companies Rubicon's kits are infinitely better. Oddly people seem to think that they're somehow worse, but my assumption is those folks poked themselves in each eye before making the comparison. ...Rubicon bother adding detail to the undersides of the kits for one.

That and the sheer variety of parts you find in their kits is great. Their current kits don't cover every variation, though their WIP stuff looks like its going in the right direction. The same stuff only comes in resin off of Warlord's store, which I've found can be really hit and miss (not specifically the usual warping issues, rather some of their older kits look like they had zero quality control when it comes to putting together the masters. ...Sides skirts which're different lengths is pretty common).

Not to bash Warlord, but given that they're both in the same ball park as far as cost goes they're really falling behind. I suppose each making vehicles the other doesn't may be a good idea (as does it take Rubicon literal years to release kits after they've shown the WIPs), and well there's always tons of manufacturers who make resin stuff out there as well.

[Shahbahraz]

The new version prototypes just look amazing.

[Ultravanillasmurf]

Some of Rubicon's earlier kits were not as good as their later kits.

I do not know about the Panzer IV, but their Panzer III had a number of issues:
http://forum.rubiconmodels.com/index.php?topic=281.msg3262#msg3262

http://ultravanillasmurf.blogspot.co.uk/2016/02/rubicon-panzer-iii-m-continuing-saga.html

They have withdrawn their original Sherman and Panzer IV kits as not being good enough, the Sherman has been replaced and as the link above shows, they are working on the replacements for the Panzer IV.

Their later kits are better, the Crusader is superb.

The Warlord kits are rather variable, but their is no consistent improvement, the M4 is a nicer kit than the M4A4.

[aphillathehun]

I really wish Rubicon would redo the tracks on their Soviet tanks.  The T-34 kits are pretty nice, but the tracks really aren't getting it done.

[Ultravanillasmurf]

They are convinced that the one piece track is the best concept, and are working to improve the appearance of the visible track face. The new Sherman track uses a slide mould that provides detail on the front face.
http://forum.rubiconmodels.com/index.php?topic=395.msg4462#msg4462

It maybe that in the future they will redesign the T34 track as well.

Their thinking appears to be that the one piece track gets round the problems with reliable track assembly (a problem with Warlord's M4 Sherman amongst others) and the cleaning up of individual wheels.

[aphillathehun]

They are convinced that the one piece track is the best concept, and are working to improve the appearance of the visible track face. The new Sherman track uses a slide mould that provides detail on the front face.
http://forum.rubiconmodels.com/index.php?topic=395.msg4462#msg4462

It maybe that in the future they will redesign the T34 track as well.

Their thinking appears to be that the one piece track gets round the problems with reliable track assembly (a problem with Warlord's M4 Sherman amongst others) and the cleaning up of individual wheels.

I'm totally bought in on the one piece track idea.  I guess I don't know what the challenges are of doing the Soviet track face patterns in plastic in one piece.  It's done in resin, but maybe the processes are different enough that that doesn't mean anything for plastic.

[JamesValentine]

on a table 3 feet away I doubt I'd notice any differences between the two. all I know is the warlord one is easier to find in stores...thats all my decision needs. but I do like some of the Rubicon add on packs and more 1/56th stuff on the market is welcome

[Heisler]

In my local area, despite a large number of game stores, I cannot buy 28mm WWII vehicles off the shelf for the most part. The stores just don't carry them so just about everything I buy is via mail order.

[Ultravanillasmurf]

I'm totally bought in on the one piece track idea.  I guess I don't know what the challenges are of doing the Soviet track face patterns in plastic in one piece.  It's done in resin, but maybe the processes are different enough that that doesn't mean anything for plastic.

Old style plastic moulds are two pieces, this means that there can only be one high part in the direction of moulding. It is like having two jelly moulds made of steel. For a one piece track the direction of moulding is across the track, so the chevrons on the track pads cannot have the inner part removed.

The following pieces show examples of spare track, which are moulded from the front (left one Warlord, right one Rubicon).


This frontal shot shows the effect of a one piece track with conventional moulds.


Now for the new Sherman, Rubicon have used multipart slide moulds to provide additional detail on the front of the track, restoring the prototypical chevrons at the front. Technical limitations (I think mould size and the added complexity) means that there is no additional detail on the rear track face.

With resin moulds, they are made of flexible material which allows the master to have limited undercuts. Deeper undercuts make mould breakage more likely. This does mean that one piece tracks can have the track pad detail. Of course resin track (and white metal track) has its own bundle of issues.

Someone who actually works on both technologies could provide a more detailed (and possibly more accurate) description.

[Ultravanillasmurf]

In my local area, despite a large number of game stores, I cannot buy 28mm WWII vehicles off the shelf for the most part. The stores just don't carry them so just about everything I buy is via mail order.

I know what you mean. It is similar in the UK.

Dark Sphere in London have Warlord, Ian Allan and Weyland's Forge in Birmingham have limited ranges of Italeri/Warlord and Rubicon.

I tend to bulk buy at shows. I am also very slow, I still have Warlord M4s from their introductory offer from Salute.