Salute 2017 More Fantasy/Sci-fi than Historical?!

[NurgleHH]

Having seen several years' worth of Gamer Mac and Andym's tables in the flesh I can say with considerable confidence that they are examples of the sort of thing that should be representing the hobby at the very highest level.

Going to a wargameshow should also be an inspiration. And The both Scotsmen are the best inspiration. After seeing their work I always say, that I should get better and work harder on my skills. In the moment all the sci-fi and fantasy-tables are the best inspiration. The last years I can't remember so much historical tables except the Perrys, Frank&Frank from the Tactica or some Boards at the Tactica with these high quality like the sci-fi/fantasy-tables.

[Silent Invader]

Kudos, pride, pleasure, a sense of achievement?

Yeah, exactly James. What I'm questioning is why - based on the photo evidence - that factors such as the ones you raise no longer seem to have the weight they had before.

Perhaps they are now all less important than those flagged by McFonz:

games where people understand that the focus is on the game, not the board and the social interaction and enjoyment of sharing in our hobby with others.

Historically, as McFonz says, tables weren't realistic. As a kid with my copy of Wargames, I really wanted a sand table but it didn't happen and I mostly made do with books under a regular table cloth. More recently, I was surprised by how basic some club tables - including for 40k - seem to be. It can easily be argued that realistic tables have always been the exception.

Perhaps the UK hobby is trending away from realistic tables, cycling back to its roots.

Perhaps Salute is now predominantly enjoyed as if it is a big 'club' night (day) with the bonus of traders rather than the 'exhibition' that it has been. Without aiming to be contentious or otherwise critical, it could be said that LAF is on that same path.

IIRC a few year back I read somewhere that someone didn't enjoy LAF because it was all dessert and no main course. I took this  to mean that LAF was (rightly or wrongly) viewed as prioritising the pretty and delectable  small things rather than the more substantive elements and purpose.

Perhaps Salute is now more about the main course, which is obviously fine if it satisfies the economics and is what  the majority of those who attend want. There'll just be less of the pretty pictures for those who don't attend and still look for their own pleasure in the photo reports.  

Hopefully none of this comes across as moaning, as it's not. It's just discussion - part if the social experience - of the hobby that we all enjoy.  

[OSHIROmodels]

Yeah, exactly James. What I'm questioning is why - based on the photo evidence - that factors such as the ones you raise no longer seem to have the weight they had before.

Perhaps they are now all less important than those flagged by McFonz:

Historically, as McFonz says, tables weren't realistic. As a kid with my copy of Wargames, I really wanted a sand table but it didn't happen and I mostly made do with books under a regular table cloth. More recently, I was surprised by how basic some club tables - including for 40k - seem to be. It can easily be argued that realistic tables have always been the exception.

Perhaps the UK hobby is trending away from realistic tables, cycling back to its roots.

Perhaps Salute is now predominantly enjoyed as if it is a big 'club' night (day) with the bonus of traders rather than the 'exhibition' that it has been. Without aiming to be contentious or otherwise critical, it could be said that LAF is on that same path.

IIRC a few year back I read somewhere that someone didn't enjoy LAF because it was all dessert and no main course. I took this  to mean that LAF was (rightly or wrongly) viewed as prioritising the pretty and delectable  small things rather than the more substantive elements and purpose.

Perhaps Salute is now more about the main course, which is obviously fine if it satisfies the economics and is what  the majority of those who attend want. There'll just be less of the pretty pictures for those who don't attend and still look for their own pleasure in the photo reports.  

Hopefully none of this comes across as moaning, as it's not. It's just discussion - part if the social experience - of the hobby that we all enjoy.  

I'm sure it will come round again to dessert (pudding  ) time at some point. Maybe this year was an exception as I didn't really see that many large displays of any sort although the landrover with the game inside was an interesting way of doing things 

I like to see inspirational games which is why I go to shows in the first place and with the www taking over much of the sales throughout the year there could be less of a reason to go to shows as all the figures you want can be seen without leaving your settee, bath, armchair etc 

cheers

James

[Hammers]

Kudos, pride, pleasure, a sense of achievement?

...or simply "that is what this whole racket is about."

[Plynkes]

I've never really got my head around the idea of the 'display game.' I haven't been to a big British show like Salute so I don't know what it's like there, but the ones at my local little shows were always perplexing. Almost without exception they were hosted by sullen, unresponsive types who resented your presence as an interference with their gaming. Can barely remember a single one that actually responded to questions about their game with anything more than an annoyed grunt.

I don't know why you'd put on a display game if that's your attitude. Why not just play at home with your mates? What with that and the constant assault of backpacks and B.O. when trying to look at the stalls, I stopped going to shows years ago. 

[vodkafan]

I am a lapsed gamer who has come back into the hobby after 6 years away. I am a bit nonplussed about the some of the strong words being used on this thread- I personally didn't see anything that I was "appalled" at.
Tables and layouts are going to vary year by year depending on the people putting on the games.
I used to be one of those people who were a bit intimidated by the big historical demonstration games but now I am more than happy to take the opportunity to throw some dice if I am invited to, especially if it is a new ruleset I am interested in.
I remember in the past there was often a closed atmosphere around some demo games, a lot of serious looking grumpy blokes standing about with arms folded who looked irritated if asked a question. I didn't see any of that, so that has to be an improvement?

[Nord]

At the risk of sounding like a grumpy old git, I agree with Plynkes. I suppose I expect the "show" element too much - I want to see something that I cannot see down at the local games club/in my mates house. So a plain cloth with a few poly hills and a scattering of lichen is not really good enough. And worse, if the club members turn up and then proceed to play a game as though it is a club night - no welcome to spectators, no info, clique central. What's the point of attending, might as well just do it down the local club on Wednesday night!?

Never been to Salute, living in Cumbria it's a mammoth journey. I have been to Vapnartak in York a few times, possibly the biggest show in the north(?) and while I enjoy it, there is a lot of very average "display" games. With everything available online these days, I am really surprised that wargames shows keep going, I thought they would be doing a Woolworths by now.

On the subject of pre-packaged vs mix and match make your own. There's nothing stopping you buying into a company system and then buying your preferred figures. I do this with Saga - GB figures are pretty poop in my eyes so I buy others, I don't feel obliged to buy their figures because they distribute the game. It's all very well saying that it's a shame that people don't do their own thing, but let's be honest, most homebrew stuff ends up being from a very small subset of games - WW2, Naps, 100YW or a dungeon crawl (yawn).

[Silent Invader]

The first show (not Salute) I attended was about 35 years ago. I walked into a room with a big and to my mind very realistic looking ACW table surrounded by men 30 years older than me dressed in period uniform. My entry into the room stopped all conversation as the assembled players stared at me, as if I were an alien. I didn't understand then and I don't understand now.  

Conversations with US and European gamers suggest to me that at shows the 'watched display' (rather than the 'participative display') is (was?) very much a U.K. thing.  

Edit: When I have been to Salute (not this year) I've very much enjoyed watching others enjoy the 'participative display' games, which do tend to be the smaller tables but has previously included some big spectaculars.

[Andym]

I think there may be a discrepancy in what we class as display games! What I personally mean by a display game, is one that some has spent the time to do something above the regular Tuesday night game and it looks that wee bit special! Display games and participation games are not mutually exclusive terms! BLAM is the perfect example of what I think are display games. The guys that make the effort and bring stuff to that weekend, put on a great display game. ALL of the BLAM games are extremely fun AND extremely great looking games.

Now don't get me wrong, the big (mostly historical?) static display games have their place in the shows, I do love looking at all the detail and picking out all the wee vignettes/scenes the guys have created on these boards! And I also like seeing guys bring games that are just starting out and want to try and run a show game. It's just I feel(especially as we had travelled all the way down from Glasgow) that Salute is supposed to represent the best our country can offer and should inspire us all to do better, be it in the way of scenery, painting or game play. I just felt the balance was swayed more in the non-spectacle participation game.

Again though......maybe I've just been spoiled by BLAM,

[YPU]

This was my first Salute, in fact my first real big convention and I was in no way disappointed.

[Mick_in_Switzerland]

I thought that there were some very nice looking historical tables at Salute.

The Tobruk table near to PSC was very good.  
There was also a very good D-Day table with landing craft
Jimbibby's Japanese table is incredible.
There was a very nice table with Perry figures and boats (AWI?)
The FOW and Bolt Action tables were also quite good.

I did miss a big spectacular ancients game.
I went to Cannonade in Falkirk a couple of years ago and that was very good (possibly better than Salute)

I have not been to BLAM but the photos always look good.


Mick

[Eric the Shed]

I think there may be a discrepancy in what we class as display games! What I personally mean by a display game, is one that some has spent the time to do something above the regular Tuesday night game and it looks that wee bit special! Display games and participation games are not mutually exclusive terms! BLAM is the perfect example of what I think are display games. The guys that make the effort and bring stuff to that weekend, put on a great display game. ALL of the BLAM games are extremely fun AND extremely great looking games.

I think BLAM differs because its a small group of folks who really appreciate the effort we all put in and actually get to play in pleasant surroundings (oops maybe I should edit 'pleasant'). 

I have just posted my thoughts on Salute here...
http://shedwars.blogspot.co.uk/2017/04/salute-17-my-haul-and-observations.html

[Hammers]

I think there may be a discrepancy in what we class as display games! What I personally mean by a display game, is one that some has spent the time to do something above the regular Tuesday night game and it looks that wee bit special! Display games and participation games are not mutually exclusive terms! BLAM is the perfect example of what I think are display games. The guys that make the effort and bring stuff to that weekend, put on a great display game. ALL of the BLAM games are extremely fun AND extremely great looking games.

Now don't get me wrong, the big (mostly historical?) static display games have their place in the shows, I do love looking at all the detail and picking out all the wee vignettes/scenes the guys have created on these boards! And I also like seeing guys bring games that are just starting out and want to try and run a show game. It's just I feel(especially as we had travelled all the way down from Glasgow) that Salute is supposed to represent the best our country can offer and should inspire us all to do better, be it in the way of scenery, painting or game play. I just felt the balance was swayed more in the non-spectacle participation game.

Again though......maybe I've just been spoiled by BLAM,

Hear him! HEAR him!

[uti long smile]

I'll admit, Saturday was so busy, I didn't get to see any tables. Jimbo's is always a cracker - so sorry I missed it. My tables fall into the Sci-Fi/Fantasy category - so I'm only adding to the problem

I'll chuck my two-penneth in about table quality.

Before Crooked, I put on spangly games with terrain from my collection. There wasn't just one motivation: showcasing creative modellers (and I've been very lucky to work with some very talented folks); a nice day out with my mates; enjoying some games; and more than likely a bit of showing off.

With Crooked, it's pretty much the same. BUT it's also clearly a means to showcase 7TV to new people - you are not going to get a much better or bigger opportunity than Salute to be honest.

I'd hope it also gives something back to existing customers who get a chance to play on some nice tables - but I may be kidding myself. I've tried bigger, longer games - but we could only ever get a couple of games in during a day, and they often became a creche for dad's looking to run off and have a shop!

We moved to smaller 2x2 tables and quick play games, simply to give more folks a chance to get a game. My refs are running 6+ a day (10 in one case - but he was a bit mad).

I'm an unashamed terrain nut, so I have a modest collection. I love a tiny world for my tiny toys to live in. The arguments about cost are totally valid (believe me, my poor wife and ex-business partner vocalised them), but they seem to fall on deaf ears most years - and I just use it as an excuse to get another nice table.

[WillieB]

Then again games like this really make my day... very inspiring. Perhaps too inspiring according to the Mrs...
Spoke to Michael and Jesper and they both gave me a very friendly welcome and took their time to explain the whole thing.

http://dalauppror.blogspot.be/

Actually won a few trophies...