Salute 2017 More Fantasy/Sci-fi than Historical?!

[mcfonz]

 

As I said originally, I think all the variety is good. I just don't see the point in tables that offer no form of engagement, either as a top notch display/demo table or as a participation game. It's a show, interaction and engagement should be the main aim.

[Elk101]

I'm not sure which game you mean by Dutch town square . . . if you give me a rough time on the vid to look I will check and see if I can recall where it was from.

The space shit corridor was one of our two participation games. It is fantastically built, it really is brilliant. Very detailed.

It's about 2:36 in, it looks pretty interesting.

The sci-fi corridor looks brilliant, do you have any more shots of it?

Thanks

[Captain Blood]

It's a show, interaction and engagement should be the main aim.

Well, we'll just have to agree to differ 

Interaction and engagement are, I completely agree, highly desirable.
But the alternative view is: It's a show - show should be the main aim.

[mcfonz]

Well, we'll just have to agree to differ 

Interaction and engagement are, I completely agree, highly desirable.
But the alternative view is: It's a show - show should be the main aim.

I think you miss my point.

If you have a large static/demo/display game (use which ever term you like), there needs to be an expectation that it engages with the people at the show. So, it needs to be good, it needs to be manned by people willing to field questions about the table - as much if not more so than the game being played upon it, and provide something for people to interact with. Largely the ones I have seen that have been done well are those like Jim's or the Waterloo table from a few years back with guys in suitable attire describing the historical moments in the battle represented in miniature.

If you just have a bunch of club guys playing a game, not really interested in "people" - they may as well be doing it in their normal club meet location.

If it's a participation game then I think you can forgive people a little of the spectacle for the trade in direct interaction.

I think it's important to remember that what sells terrain are figures and rules.

You see things go in trends, SAGA has seen an increase in Dark Age sales across the board. There are plenty of other examples like it such as Bolt Action etc.

So as I said, it's all needed. But I think one thing has been missed off in this thread, and that is the awards that can be won. Years ago, there was no distinction between what I would call a "business table" - one paid for by a business or one made and put together by a club. For the last couple of years at least, they have made a distinction and there is a "best trader sponsored table".

And as I said before, people need to take into account a great number of factors and try to factor out the slightly snobby approach. My table was by no means stunning:



It is only the 2nd table I have ever built. The first is on here in the sci fi section - and that was four plus years ago now. I didn't put that table together to be a "spectacle", nor did I want it to look crap. But I wanted to push myself to see what I was capable of and if I could learn more. I learnt a lot, like how I would do almost everything differently next time. I also have constraints that are dictated to me such as anything I make has to be able to fit into a Fiat Punto. I'm not a trader so I haven't hired a van. I make no money from this so I spend the hobby cash I put aside on it. I work full time so it got made, to the detriment of my waiting armies, with time I have spare from other commitments etc - it's not my job etc.

That's what club games should be. IMHO.

[mcfonz]

It's about 2:36 in, it looks pretty interesting.

The sci-fi corridor looks brilliant, do you have any more shots of it?

Thanks

I don't but there are more in the link I posted earlier of the build in progress: http://www.randomplatypus.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=2545

Re the Dutch Town square, I don't recall who it was by I am afraid, I do remember that it was part of a much larger game with this on one edge. Someone else out there may be able to shed more light on it perhaps?

[Elk101]

Thanks, I do really like that sci-fi set up.

[Artemis Black]

Well, we'll just have to agree to differ 

Interaction and engagement are, I completely agree, highly desirable.
But the alternative view is: It's a show - show should be the main aim.

Out of interest, what percentage of the 6000 attendees do you think travelled to London and paid £12 to watch someone else play a random wargame?

If your answer has 2 digits in it, you are wrong.

[Captain Blood]

Out of interest, what percentage of the 6000 attendees do you think travelled to London and paid £12 to watch someone else play a random wargame?

If your answer has 2 digits in it, you are wrong.

Must be nice to so certain about things

I couldn't agree more though. I doubt anyone goes to a show hoping to see two blokes push averagely painted figures around on a piece of cloth with a few desultory bits of scenery, whilst mumbling to each other about rules arguments. It's shocking that you still see this at Salute and other shows. My point exactly.

Wargamers go to wargames shows for shopping and inspiration. (And to meet up with other wargamers and friends, obvs).

To me, and I think many other people, inspiration means eye candy: beautiful, visually impressive or dramatic games to marvel at and admire, and maybe take something away from to try to emulate at home. Almost everybody loves to see these show games, however much they may say otherwise. Because it's the core, inherent visual appeal of wargaming - a hobby hugely dependent on the motivating allure of eye candy. Check out any magazine, ruleset, piece of product packaging to see how many crappy looking figures and tabletops are used to seduce and inspire potential customers. You won't find any.

I get the alternative point of view though, which is that eye candy is not the be-all and end-all. For some people, testing out new rules, chatting to other gamers about scenarios and so on, is just as much part of the show experience. Some participation games will therefore prioritise the interaction, engagement and experience over the visual appeal. Fair enough. In an ideal world, I'm sure what most punters would want is a game that does both. Which is indeed what most people laying on games manage to achieve: Something that looks wonderful but also offers the involvement and interest of the second category. There were many examples of this at Salute. But for me, there were also too many of the second category of games where little effort had gone into presentation and visual impact. I think we're just arguing about where the right balance lies and reflecting on the direction of travel.

What nobody pays to see is the aforementioned piece of cloth - however nattily printed - with minimal effort put into figures and terrain n top of it, and where the people involved simply appear to be playing a game they could have played on a wet Tuesday night down at the club. But you still see these games at shows, including Salute. No eye candy and no engagement and interaction with show visitors either.

[Elk101]

Did you really just use "obvs"? 

I think you're right about the argument being one of balance. I can see both sides too, I'd be unlikely to stick with wargaming were it not for the interaction,  engagement and experience though I'd likely still collect and paint a (much) more limited range of figures because of the visual element. My collection of 54mm Inquisitor figures is testament to that.

[Captain Blood]

Did you really just use "obvs"? 

I am down with the Kidz mate. Innit.
(I draw the line at LOL though. Never LOL if you can help it).

[vodkafan]

I am down with the Kidz mate. Innit.
(I draw the line at LOL though. Never LOL if you can help it).

I totes agree.

[Silent Invader]

I totes agree.

Obvs

LOL

[OSHIROmodels]

Obvs

LOL

Wicked cool 

[mcfonz]

It's about 2:36 in, it looks pretty interesting.

The sci-fi corridor looks brilliant, do you have any more shots of it?

Thanks

There are more shots here on Manatic's blog - which also suggests there were plenty of historical games to be had. . . . https://dawnofthelead.com/2017/04/28/salute-2017-part-2/

[Elk101]

Some lovely photos there. The close ups of the sci-fi corridors were excellent,  thanks. I'd love to do that myself as a modular set up.