Salute 2017 More Fantasy/Sci-fi than Historical?!

[matakishi]

This is an excellent table.
Good quality, neat, well presented, playable, versatile and there's a scratch-built focal point. It's clearly been though out, planned and well executed.
It shows off all the good things about miniature war gaming that I enjoy. It's a well realised world for the toys to play in and there's a game going on.
It makes me want to play on it.
It's streaks ahead of the cloth and mdf brigade.

I agree with Richard that war gaming is a visual hobby but that doesn't just mean huge and/or elaborate. Looking good is the important thing.
I appreciate the effort people go to and value that most highly. Actual skill level is secondary.
I like it here because people make the effort.

[mcfonz]

Thanks Matakishi, from you that is high praise indeed.

Being from an artistic background I am currently in the "loathing it" stage and it remains in my car whilst I get over myself. 

[Andym]

For someone who complains that it shouldn't matter about terrain, you do make a mean board!

 I love the height of the main cliff. There's just enough terrain to be really interesting and enough space to get some big units t manoeuvre about! Your board tells a story of a forest at the edge of the mountains, with possible lurking monsters in that big cave! It just adds that the playing experience to know your gaming in some part of some world! There's actually something to fight for!

If I had seen the likes of this quality at Salute, I wouldn't have complained!

[Artemis Black]

Must be nice to so certain about things

I couldn't agree more though. I doubt anyone goes to a show hoping to see two blokes push averagely painted figures around on a piece of cloth with a few desultory bits of scenery, whilst mumbling to each other about rules arguments. It's shocking that you still see this at Salute and other shows. My point exactly.

I must have missed the pics with tables like that? I didn't see any personally at the show on my walkaround?

Wargamers go to wargames shows for shopping and inspiration. (And to meet up with other wargamers and friends, obvs).

To me, and I think many other people, inspiration means eye candy: beautiful, visually impressive or dramatic games to marvel at and admire, and maybe take something away from to try to emulate at home. Almost everybody loves to see these show games, however much they may say otherwise.

People are lying about loving to see show games? And I'm not over 60 so no, I don't see a table with 1200 Napoleonic troopers and think 'That's definitely something I want to do with my retirement'. I'm sure 'some' people do, I am not as sure as you seem to be that those people are in great numbers.

Most people who go to Salute are already into wargaming. There's not a lot of marathon runners wandering by and enticed by the smell of backpacks and beards to suddenly take up pushing tiny men around. Most people already into wargaming already know what they like. I'm not into historicals, no amount of amazing scenery is going to make me get into historicals. I can admire the table for a few minutes, and then I will move on and forget it existed. I suspect I am far more the average Salute attendee than the one you are describing.

Because it's the core, inherent visual appeal of wargaming - a hobby hugely dependent on the motivating allure of eye candy. Check out any magazine, ruleset, piece of product packaging to see how many crappy looking figures and tabletops are used to seduce and inspire potential customers. You won't find any.

Yes, because those are adverts. Their job isn't to get people into wargaming, nobody is buying a wargaming magazine or ruleset who isn't already into wargaming. Their job is to sell product.

I get the alternative point of view though, which is that eye candy is not the be-all and end-all. For some people, testing out new rules, chatting to other gamers about scenarios and so on, is just as much part of the show experience. Some participation games will therefore prioritise the interaction, engagement and experience over the visual appeal. Fair enough. In an ideal world, I'm sure what most punters would want is a game that does both. Which is indeed what most people laying on games manage to achieve: Something that looks wonderful but also offers the involvement and interest of the second category. There were many examples of this at Salute. But for me, there were also too many of the second category of games where little effort had gone into presentation and visual impact. I think we're just arguing about where the right balance lies and reflecting on the direction of travel.

What nobody pays to see is the aforementioned piece of cloth - however nattily printed - with minimal effort put into figures and terrain n top of it, and where the people involved simply appear to be playing a game they could have played on a wet Tuesday night down at the club. But you still see these games at shows, including Salute. No eye candy and no engagement and interaction with show visitors either.

Again, I must have missed those. The most boring tables to me were the big fields with hundreds of identical looking historical minis on but I didn't see anyone who'd just thrown some scatter terrain on a sheet or something.

[Storm Wolf]

Myself and daughter had a very nice game of Dragon Rampant Frostgrave on whar was supposed to be a demo game table,

the two gents were more than happy to help and then very gently took the piss out of me as my daughter started ti rip the barbarian army I had seconded apart with her Gnoll army!

A good time was had by all and they were willing to talk through Frostgrave with us

so not all demo games are a bad thing, they were more than helpful and friendly

Glen

[WimVdB]

I thought that there were some very nice looking historical tables at Salute.

The Tobruk table near to PSC was very good.  
There was also a very good D-Day table with landing craft
Jimbibby's Japanese table is incredible.
There was a very nice table with Perry figures and boats (AWI?)
The FOW and Bolt Action tables were also quite good.

I did miss a big spectacular ancients game.
I went to Cannonade in Falkirk a couple of years ago and that was very good (possibly better than Salute)

I have not been to BLAM but the photos always look good.


Mick

@ Mick
You must have missed To ths Strongest! They played a huge Raphia battle.
http://bigredbat.blogspot.be/2017/04/in-action-shots-of-raphia-at-salute.html

And there was also a Society of Ancients game (among others)

[Captain Blood]

I think demo games are a very good thing
Nice looking demo games, even better.

I don't see a table with 1200 Napoleonic troopers and think 'That's definitely something I want to do with my retirement'. I'm sure 'some' people do, I am not as sure as you seem to be that those people are in great numbers.

I didn't say that at all  
Napoleonic battles leave me as cold as they evidently do you. Can't stand them.
My points were nothing to do with fantasy versus historical or young people versus old people, or however else you'd like to categorise the wargaming population into oppositional groups.
My point is that shows aren't what they were, with seemingly fewer tables with out and out eye candy levels of presentation. Which to me, is a shame, but obviously not to everybody. Fair enough
The inexorable march of the printed mat does not seem to me to bode well for the future of visually inspiring wargames. And there were a LOT of those at Salute this year.

[Elk101]

For someone who complains that it shouldn't matter about terrain, you do make a mean board!

 I love the height of the main cliff. There's just enough terrain to be really interesting and enough space to get some big units t manoeuvre about! Your board tells a story of a forest at the edge of the mountains, with possible lurking monsters in that big cave! It just adds that the playing experience to know your gaming in some part of some world! There's actually something to fight for!

If I had seen the likes of this quality at Salute, I wouldn't have complained!

Yes,  for the record McFonz's table was definitely not one I'd seen and been disappointed with, it's a very good table and I'll have it if you don't want it!  

Before I'd realised it was yours I'd already been drawn to the cave! It's got me thinking about how I do my Old West silver mine now. I also rather like the woods.

[Elk101]

I think demo games are a very good thing
Nice looking demo games, even better.

I didn't say that at all  
Napoleonic battles leave me as cold as they evidently do you. Can't stand them.

How very dare you sir. I happen to like the grand tactical challenges of the Napoleonic table!  Nor do I consider myself an old duffer either. 

It'd be bloody boring if we all liked the same thing.

"Another game of Broad Appeal Period lads?"

[Mick_in_Switzerland]

@WimVdB
Sorry, I must have missed the Raphia battle.
It certainly is a spectacular ancients battle.

Mick

[OSHIROmodels]

It'd be bloody boring if we all liked the same thing.

"Another game of Broad Appeal Period lads?"

At least I wouldn't get roped into making all the sodding terrain for different periods/themes if we played the same shit all the time 

cheers

James

[Elk101]

At least I wouldn't get roped into making all the sodding terrain for different periods/themes if we played the same shit all the time 

cheers

James

You love the challenge!  And the deadlines 

Have you started your three BLAM tables yet?

[OSHIROmodels]

You love the challenge!  And the deadlines 

Have you started your three BLAM tables yet?

Years ago smart arse 

[Elk101]

Years ago smart arse 

We've seen those,  we need tenth anniversary versions!

[OSHIROmodels]

We've seen those,  we need tenth anniversary versions!

No, we don't...