Koyote's SAGA Britons, Irish,Late Romans, and Saxons

[terrement]

Koyote,

Great looking stuff!  And they can fight!!!

Thanks for the tutorial on the display board.  I think lots of us here will give it a go.

As for the SAGA games, congrats on the battle results.  I'm not a SAGA player so I'm curious about the mismatches that you reported.  Your forces difficulties with the double Viking opposition, and your shredding of the Romans in the other battle.

Is SAGA a game where certain (all?) armies are generally capable but just don't match up well against certain opponents?  I've seen this sort of thing in sports where Team A routinely beats Team B, B beats C, and C beats A.  Just curious.

[Ogrob]

Koyote is a far more capable general than me when it comes to SAGA, or at least a much more experiences tournament player. Still going to offer my thoughts on game balance: pretty much all factions are capable, but some are a bit weaker (famously Vikings, popular beginner faction though they are) while others are more capable. Beyond that there is an element of rock, paper, scissors where factions have different strong and weak matchups. It seems to me that more and more tournaments are moving away from any faction goes, aka Age of Melee, to the Age groupings recommended by the game designers (The ancients books together, Age of Invasions with Age of Vikings, Age of Crusades with the upcoming Age of Chivalry).

Oh, and thank you for the build overview Koyote, excellent work! I've made one display board and would quite like to make another at some point....

[Koyote]

Koyote,

Great looking stuff!  And they can fight!!!

Thanks for the tutorial on the display board.  I think lots of us here will give it a go.

As for the SAGA games, congrats on the battle results.  I'm not a SAGA player so I'm curious about the mismatches that you reported.  Your forces difficulties with the double Viking opposition, and your shredding of the Romans in the other battle.

Is SAGA a game where certain (all?) armies are generally capable but just don't match up well against certai opponents?  I've seen this sort of thing in sports where Team A routinely beats Team B, B beats C, and C beats A.  Just curious.

In theory, any Saga faction is capable of defeating any other Saga faction, but there certainly are some factions that are easier to win with than others. There is also a certain rock-paper-scissors element, in which some factions are easier to beat if their opponent is playing a certain faction.  Since it is a dice driven game, there is also an element of luck, but experience an cunning do play a significant role as well.

I don't now how much cross-Universe book play testing occurs. I imagine that creating books from related Universes  (e.g. Ages of Hannibal, Age of Alexander, and Age of Caesar) does include at least some inter-Universe play testing.

I attribute our success against the Republican Romans and Italiote Graeculi to a mismatch in experience. The Republican Roman player was brand new and the Italiote player isn't yet a veteran player. Also, as in most wargames, knowing the special rules of your opponent's faction/army/warband can be most advantageous, as it alerts you to their strengths and weaknesses, and helps you avoid surprises and traps. Neither of our opponents were familiar with our factions, but my teammate and I were well acquainted with our opponents' factions.  This gave us a significant advantage from the get-go.

The Viking warband is relatively easy to play, but it isn't a top-tier faction, and thus getting the most out of Vikings requires a veteran Viking player. One of the Viking players has been playing Vikings for years, but doesn't get in very many games, while the other Viking player is relatively new to the game. For these reasons, my teammate and I thought we had this game in the bag. We were wrong.

The Vikings have a powerful ability, called "Odin", that shuts down one shooting unit for a turn or two. Since we were playing against two Viking players, their team could use this ability twice per turn. And since my Irish faction is a shooting faction and buddy's Norman faction is a combined arms factions, both of us typically rely a good amount of shooting to soften up our opponents with before engaging them in melee.

Our inability to shoot to our fullest capability was compounded by the problem that each Viking player had an elite unit called Berserkers. This small, relatively fragile unit, has the ability to blow up any unit in the game in a single charge. Double Odin plus double Beserkers meant that our shooting game was handicapped and if we engaged the Vikings toe to toe, their Beserkers would shred us in melee. This meant that we had to rely on our wits to whittle the Vikings down, bit by bit with shooting, before carefully timing our melees. And while we were whittling away, the Vikings held the center of the board and scooped up extra victory points by scoring on objectives. The result was a draw.

This isn't meant to take anything away from our Viking opponents. They played a smart game with what is arguably an underdog faction. Props to them.

 

[Tonhel]

Congratulations! It's a beautiful army!

[Koyote]

The next brand-new warband in the hopper is early Saxons, from Saga's Age of Invasions book (395 to 476 AD).  One of the beneifts of this warband is that I can also use them as the Germanic People from the Age of Vikings book, and as a stretch, the Wends (Pagan Peoples) from Age of Crusades.

The background that I'm exploring is Whitgar, King of Wight, the semi-historical Jutish king who was given lordship of the Isle of Wight by Cerdic.

The core of the warband will be comprised of Victrix's lovely new Early Saxon Unarmored Warriors, which comes in a pack of 36 models.



Whereas Victrixes brand new Early Saxon Armored Warriors (36 model kit) is also quite nice, I only need 7 to 9 armored Saxons to serve as my Hearthguard and Warlord, so I am going to forego shiny new Victrix minis for some Footsore early Saxons that I have on hand. Whereas the sculpting and casting of the Footsore Saxon minis don't hold a candle to the new Victrix Saxons, the Footsore Saxon's faces, beards, and hair give the models a fun bit of character absent in the Victrix models.

Footsore also has some fun mounted early Saxons that I will use when I play the faction as Germanic People (AoV).

The balance of my models will come from Victrix's Dark Age Archers kit with some Early Saxon heads and bits added for flavor.

[Koyote]

One of my gripes about Footsore Miniatures and a few other manufacturers (e.g., the now defunct Saxon Miniatures) is what I call short-arm-syndrome (SAS). It's where one or both of a model's arms are short to the point that it looks like a physical abnormality. It typically appears when the arm is cocked back or bent at an acute angle. I've seen it in some of the Victrix plastics as well.

My prescribed treatment for SAS is to use lengths of GS cylinders with metal rods running through them to extend the length of the limb. If it's the upper arm that's too short, sometimes I will use a GS wedge between the body and arm and some GS sculpting to extend the length.

Four of the six the Footsore Saxons that I'm using as Hearthguard have SAS. One model I have to leave be because of the pose, the other three were treated for SAS. In one instance I replaced the entire arm with a plastic arm that I will have to bulk up some with GS sculpting to match the left arm. 

Below is a WIP pic. I've extended the affected limbs but haven't yet patched and bulked them up with GS.

[Ogrob]

Haha, we have very similar plans! I am planning on grabbing these for a generic germanic and even early Viking force later.

Lovely start, though if you want a few armoured minis, have you looked at Medbury's jute and vendel range? I think if you are getting them 3D printed, may want to upscale them a little bit to match better with Victrix. I have some for my Rohan, and they are a wee bit short, which I am ok with for Warriors, but less so for Hearthguard and heroes.

[Ran The Cid]

Lovely start, though if you want a few armoured minis, have you looked at Medbury's jute and vendel range? I think if you are getting them 3D printed, may want to upscale them a little bit to match better with Victrix. I have some for my Rohan, and they are a wee bit short, which I am ok with for Warriors, but less so for Hearthguard and heroes.

I'm assembling the Medbury Vendel miniatures cast in metal from their kickstarter at the moment.  Lovely figures.  I'm normally not a fan of dynamic poses, but many of these sculpts capture movement without being awkward.  The figures may be a little thin compared to some of the chunkier lines.  I'll have to line them up with Victrix to see how the height compares.

[Koyote]

Wow!  These are amazing!  I forgot that Beowulf was a Jute.  I'll have to work a severed arm into one of my objective markers.

@Ran The Cid: I'd be most grateful if you would post a photo of the metal Jutes side by side with some Victrix minis. I'd very much like to see the scale comparison.

[Ran The Cid]

Medbury with Victrix Late Huscarls.  The eyes are almost completly even across all of the figures.  The Victrix are just so much larger in the body that it makes them seem bigger.

[Atheling]

Worth a look if you're into Vendel era mini's and want to stick with the victrix sizes:


Unarmoured Early Saxons Link:
https://www.victrixlimited.com/products/early-saxon-unarmoured-warriors?variant=41361213128803


Armoured Early Saxons Link:
https://www.victrixlimited.com/collections/early-saxons/products/early-saxon-armoured-warriors?variant=41361173872739#7211938414691-1

[WorkShy]

Where I’d be careful with Medbury is with the Vendel and Jute cavalry. I ordered some resin prints from a UK printer I like to use. The horses were rather small in comparison to the riders. It looked a bit silly. So you might want the horses resized.

I’d also point out  some cavalry have stirrups. The Vendel cavalry don’t but the Jute and some of the characters (Hengest, Horsa for example) have stirrups. Given the period these may/may not be historical and can be difficult to get rid of without damaging detail on the legs. I don’t think historical accuracy is really something Medbury aims for. Sort of historical fantasy since I think they can also be used for Rohan etc.

[Koyote]

Where I’d be careful with Medbury is with the Vendel and Jute cavalry. I ordered some resin prints from a UK printer I like to use. The horses were rather small in comparison to the riders. It looked a bit silly. So you might want the horses resized.

I’d also point out  some cavalry have stirrups. The Vendel cavalry don’t but the Jute and some of the characters (Hengest, Horsa for example) have stirrups. Given the period these aren’t historical and can be difficult to get rid of without damaging detail on the legs. I don’t think historical accuracy is really something Medbury aims for. Sort of historical fantasy.

Thanks for the heads up. I've had to do horse-swaps in the past, so I have extra horses lying about in my various bits boxes.

[Koyote]

With Beowulf being the most famous of all the Jutes (some argue he was a Jute not a Geat), even if he is just a myth, he will make a fun subject matter for objective markers. Each objective can be a mini diorama depicting a different part of the epic poem.  As with my Briton baggage markers, I can use the objective markers that tells a story that straddle the line between myth an history.

Medbury sells this STL, which is purported to be inspired by John Henry Frederick Bacon's Painting of Beowulf severing the head of Grendel. Although, it looks to me that the model purported to be Grendel has one too many arms.  With some GS sculpting, I can make the fallen figure Grendel's mother. Hmmm?






This STL isn't that great, but I haven't found a better model holding aloft a severed arm so I will have to convert my own.




For the Death of Beowulf objective marker I will use the center model, give him a bloody neck wound, a broken sword and put at his feet a gold chalice, the latter being the what caused the confrontation with the dragon that killed Beowulf.

[Koyote]

I found some fun photos on Discord of my Romans at the Adepticon The Battle of the Catalaunian Plains mega battle.